Invasion of Ukraine Continues As Russia Begins Nuclear Weapons Sabre Rattling 789
cold fjord writes Russian President has issued a stark indication of Russia's military capabilities: "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations. This is a reality, not just words." According to News.com.au, "It's the first time in more than 25 years that Moscow has raised the spectre of nuclear war. The difference this time is that its tanks are already pouring over its western borders." To put numbers behind that, "Russia has moved 4,000 to 5,000 military personnel — a figure far higher than one U.S. official's earlier claim of 1,000 troops. The soldiers are aligned in 'formed units' and fighting around Luhansk and Donetsk.... And they may soon have company: Some 20,000 troops are on border and 'more may be on the way.'" On top of that, the Ukraine Defence Minister claims Russia has made threats that they're prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons to stop further resistance.
Not due to Putin's ego (Score:5, Informative)
Putin has a massive ego, yes. But he's also a realist.
He knows that no other superpower will do anything no matter what he does. Certainly not the U.S. No-one has or will do anything about a whole jetliner of people shot out of the sky with citizens from around the world, why would they about a war in the Ukraine?
Your notion anyone would join forces to invade Russia is the real madness...
So he does whatever he wants because he can. And people are surprised about that?
Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot? (Score:2, Informative)
Actual full quote (Score:5, Informative)
Full transcript of this youth camp Q and A session is available here [kremlin.ru].
Re:Not the end... (Score:2, Informative)
The Ukraine isn't part of Nato yet. NATO agreed to defend the Ukraine in agreement for the Ukraine disarming itself of nuclear weapons.
Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
You do realize he's an AC, right? That's why he's starting at 0 mod points. No one has modded him down.
Re:Unreal... (Score:5, Informative)
It was made during a verbal question and answer session some days ago. You can read a transcript of the full thing, without western media's blatantly selective quoting and bias, right here [kremlin.ru]. Do go read it for yourself. The press has been having a field day with taking individual sentences out of context, in many cases not even mentioning that Putin was responding to questions from Russian citizens, to make it look like he's issuing press releases about Ukraine specifically. It's the most amazingly dangerous set of selective quotations I've ever seen. In this case Putin wasn't even talking about Ukraine!
I copy/pasted the full question and answer in a post below. But you can easily find it in that page. It's a long answer to a relatively vague question that asks (amongst other things) about how Russia can avoid being drawn into large scale conflicts. So right at the start he says he doesn't want to be drawn into any large conflicts, he doesn't think it's going to happen and that he thinks nobody has any intention of starting a large scale conflict (er, he might want to re-evaluate that given the noise coming out of NATO). Then he goes on to point out that Russia can defend itself, and talks about the "nuclear deterrent" (same language as the UK uses), and then states again that it's for defence.
You can choose not to believe him if you like. But the USA and UK also have "nuclear deterrents" and their so-called Departments of Defence routinely engage in offence at the drop of a hat. We routinely see far more aggressive language coming out of the White House. So I don't think anything Putin is saying here is particularly unique or unusual.
Really? (Score:5, Informative)
This sounds like real news. You would think it would be on the front page of the world's news sites. However...
Isn't on the BBC
Isn't on the Guardian
Isn't on the Washington Post
Isn't on the New York Times*
Isn't on the LA Times
I detect a pattern here.
* The NYT does have on its home page a story entitled "Putin’s War of Words: A Roundup." I guess saying that "thousands of words are already pouring over its western borders" doesn't have quite the same pizazz.
Re:Not the end... (Score:4, Informative)
NATO did not agree to anything. There was an agreement [wikipedia.org] where Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed the following;
1. Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
4. Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.
Nowhere is there a commitment to defend Ukraine against conventional forces.
Re:Put it this way (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
But he was not only person using fighting words. At a youth forum on Friday, Vladimir Putinâ(TM)s nuclear threat was simple.
"I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations. This is a reality, not just words."
Itâ(TM)s the first time in more than 25 years that Moscow has raised the spectre of nuclear war. The difference this time is that its tanks are already pouring over its western borders.
"A great war arrived at our doorstep, the likes of which Europe has not seen since World War II,â Ukraineâ(TM)s Defence Minister Valeriy Geletey wrote on Facebook overnight, warning of âoetens of thousands of deaths".
Putin appears to agree.
Italian newspaper La Repubblica reports Putin has told the outgoing European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso: "If I want, I take Kiev in two weeks."
Okay... short of posting the entire fracking article, the context doesn't seem to be the problem.
---
Okay-- now imagine Obama responding,
âoeI want to remind you that America is one of the most powerful nuclear nations. This is a reality, not just words.â
And then saying to the prime minister of UK,
"If I want, I take Moscow/Havana/etc. in two weeks."
--
Short of Putin coming out and saying, "I'm going to bomb Ukraine with nuclear missiles during the next two weeks"... it was about as threatening as a head of state can get.
This is the problem with a closed circle jerk news system.
Re:Sigh... (Score:3, Informative)
if they do that, every single country out there will go out and develop nuclear weapons deterrents. Ukraine specifically received guarantees from Russia for its protection when it gained independence, 20--25 years ago. Russia's word is so easily broken? Sad, dangerous and sad.
Re:Sigh... (Score:4, Informative)
Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Utah - need I go on?
Skip ahead a bit, brother.
How about Hawaii? It was a kingdom in the late 1800s, ruled by Queen Lili'uokalani. In 1893 she was overthrown and the government was replaced with a provisional government, led by an American lawyer. President Cleveland commissioned a report which found that the overthrow was illegal. The provisional government ended the following year and was replaced by the Republic of Hawaii. In 1898, despite opposition from a majority of native Hawaiians, and despite letters written by Queen Lili'uokalani also in opposition, the US passed a resolution which annexed Hawaii as a US territory. In 1959 it would become the 50th state. In 1993 the US Congress would pass a joint resolution signed by Clinton which apologized for overthrowing the government of Queen Lili'uokalani.
Or, how about Guantanamo Bay Naval Base? We invaded and captured that land in 1898 (good year for the US, I guess), refused to give it back, built a military installation on it (our only one in a country with which we do not have diplomatic relations), and Cuba has been protesting every year since 1959 that the occupation of it is illegal. But US interests.