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Transportation EU Government Stats

Fuel Efficiency Numbers Overstate MPG More For Cars With Small Engines 403

whoever57 writes: All official numbers for fuel economy in the EU typically overstate the miles-per-gallon figure that drivers can expect to achieve in typical driving. A recent study confirmed this once again. However, what the study also found was that MPG figures are more unrealistic for cars with smaller engines than for cars with larger engines. Actual MPG figures achieved based on typical drives for cars with small engines could be as much as 36% under the official number, while those cars with 3-liter engines would typically achieve 15% less than the official figure. These discrepancies need to be accounted for if we're going to be serious about regulating fuel efficiency. But then, we should be using gallons-per-mile instead of miles-per-gallon, too.
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Fuel Efficiency Numbers Overstate MPG More For Cars With Small Engines

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  • by louic ( 1841824 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @08:43AM (#48090877)
    "But then, we should be using gallons-per-mile instead of miles-per-gallon, too".

    No. You should be using litres per kilometer. Especially so when talking about the EU.
    • As much as I like to bash American units they aren't really the issue here.

      • As much as I like to bash American units they aren't really the issue here.

        How is "miles/gallon" wronger compared to "gallons/mile" than "gallons/mile" to "l/km"?

        • How is "miles/gallon" wronger compared to "gallons/mile" than "gallons/mile" to "l/km"?

          One problem with miles per gallon is that there is one kind of mile, but two kinds of gallons. US gallons are smaller than UK gallons, so if I tell you my miles per gallon, you need to know where I am.

          In practice, you report "litres per 100 kilometre", because litres per kilometres should be a tiny number, somewhere between 0.04 and 0.1 for most cars. Americans and Brits should feel free to do litres per 100 miles.

      • That's good, because this is a British news source talking about a British problem :)

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I had a rental in France a few years back, the in-dash computer reported fuel efficiency in L/100km. I guess someone already solved the units problem. I think it was a Renault.
    • by halivar ( 535827 ) <bfelger@gmai l . com> on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @08:58AM (#48091063)

      "The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."

    • I never understood why it mattered if you used L/100km or MPG. The people who don't understand that going from 18 MPG to 28 MPG saves more fuel than going from 34 MPG to 50 MPG are the exact same people who are going to think that there is very little difference between a car that uses 3 L/100km and one that uses 4 L/100km because it's only a difference of 1, which is a very small number. They don't understand that the car that uses 4 L/100km uses 33% more fuel than the other one.
    • Even simpler (Score:5, Informative)

      by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:09AM (#48091173)

      would it not be better to simplify a volume divided by a length to an area. Gallons/mile is best represented in represented in hectates or furlongs^2.

      • conversion factor (Score:4, Insightful)

        by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:14AM (#48091219)

        1 US gallon / mile = 0.00364583333 sq inches

        • conversion factor (Score:5, Insightful)

          by BadgerRush ( 2648589 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @10:17AM (#48092087)

          Now lets try the same using the metric system:

          1 litre / kilometre = 1 sq millimetre

          That is another win for the metric system in my book.

          • Too bad the argument really breaks down distance/volume vs volume/distance. In other words, the argument could be framed as MPG vs GPM or KPL vs LPK.

            Express both using metric units and tell me, if you have to travel 1285km and your vehicle uses 3.7l/100km, or, rather, gets 27.027km/l, how much fuel do you need?

            Do the math for both LPK and KPL, show your work. Here, I'll do it for you:

            Using LPK (3l/100km):
            1285km * 3.7l = 4754.5
            4754.5 / 100km = 47.545l
            OR
            1285km / 100km = 12.85
            12.85 * 3.7l = 47.545
        • 1 US gallon / mile = 0.00364583333 sq inches
          --
          Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.

          You, Sir, are just gargling. And you've dribbled on your shirt.

      • by louic ( 1841824 )
        If you want to go that way I would suggest microlitres per attoparsec.
      • My personal favorite is how Americans measure pressure (such as in tires): pounds per square inch. It is so bizarre, it is beautiful...

        The "pounds" are pounds of force (lbf), of course, but I doubt, an average person (be he American or European) can articulate the difference between mass and weight...

    • by sphealey ( 2855 )

      Up until just a few years ago, the ultimate measure of fuel economy in the UK was:

      miles/liter/stone/cubic meter

      So I wouldn't gripe about US ANSI units too much ;-)

      sPh

      Haven't been to the UK since road signs were officially changed to km, but I understand most UKians still think of distances in miles.

    • by Guspaz ( 556486 )

      Presumably Europe uses litres per 100 kilometres. At least that's what we use in Canada.

    • I was just going to mention that "gallons/mile" instead of "miles/gallon" struck me as fairly similar to standard vs. metric, i.e., mostly a matter of preference in daily life.

      It's already a simple mathematical operation to transform from mpg to gpm, and with the wall of numbers he throws at us which I feel that a car owner is only going to actually do when they're in the market for a new car, the annoyance of transitioning over outweighs the benefits. And I'm definitely against further translation by divid

  • In marketing, bigger numbers are usually better, except for the price. This is why we use MPG and why they put big numbers on the speedometer even though that 4 Cylinder would never make it to 120 MPH.

    Windows 7 becomes Windows 8 becomes Windows 8.1. Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787.... Airbus 320, 321, 330, 340, 350, 380... Ford F-150, F-250, F-350. Each increase is supposed to represent the product getting bigger and better.

    • Windows 7 becomes Windows 8 becomes Windows 8.1.

      How does your theory explain that same series but going backwards from 7?

    • by Sique ( 173459 )
      Hm. I have a four cylinder that goes 120 mph. Barely yes, but it does. It's listed with a top speed of 191 kph, which is about 119 mph. And it's a plain station wagon, nothing fancy.
      • Sorry, given this is shashdot, I should have allowed for some production 4 cylinder car to make it past 120 MPH. However, I assure the GEO Metro economy 4 cylinder isn't going to bury the pointer on it's speedometer without going down hill with a strong tail wind.

        Remind me not to ride with you.....

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by louic ( 1841824 )
      I don't think its true that in marketing bigger numbers are better. Not if you are marketing something like using LESS fuel. But even if you are right, I think the issue here is that if they started with a boeing 747 and then decrease the number, sooner or later they would have to start using fractions or negative numbers.
    • by armanox ( 826486 )

      Interesting, the speedometer on my 4-cyl only goes to 85MPH (not that the car can go that fast in it's current condition, there is a reason it's parked until I have the time to repair it).

    • This is why we use MPG and why they put big numbers on the speedometer even though that 4 Cylinder would never make it to 120 MPH.

      Considering how long Indy racers ran with four-bangers ...

      Or for that matter, my Subaru with its four-cylinder Boxer is basically an updated version of the car that holds a long list of speed records for distances like 50,000 km -- at sustained average speeds of over 135 mph.

      The real reason auto manufacturers put silly speedo ranges on is to keep the most common highway speeds in the upper quadrant of the dial, for quick reading and thus faster times getting your eyes back on the road. And, yes, I've worke

    • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

      Lotus Elise is a 1.4l four cylinder engine and does 150mph.

  • by Mr D from 63 ( 3395377 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @08:50AM (#48090953)
    The numbers are not overstated based on the test criteria. It is the test criteria that does not cover the real world operating conditions. Change the test requirements, and you'll change the results and therefore the rating.
  • Well DUH! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @08:54AM (#48091001)
    It tells you exactly why in the article. It's the way people drive them.

    If you try to push a small engine to drive like a larger one, you'll be accelerating harder, therefore using more fuel than under normal acceleration.

    In similar manner, some years ago, I had a Grand Cherokee that my wife couldn't get more than 11mpg out of, while I could do 17mpg.

    We have different driving styles. She is a leadfoot, while I drive like I have an uncooked egg between my foot and the gas pedal.

    Perhaps this article might better be titled "Want better gas mileage? Don't drive like a gashole."

    • It tells you exactly why in the article. It's the way people drive them.

      If you try to push a small engine to drive like a larger one, you'll be accelerating harder, therefore using more fuel than under normal acceleration.

      In similar manner, some years ago, I had a Grand Cherokee that my wife couldn't get more than 11mpg out of, while I could do 17mpg.

      We have different driving styles. She is a leadfoot, while I drive like I have an uncooked egg between my foot and the gas pedal.

      Perhaps this article might better be titled "Want better gas mileage? Don't drive like a gashole."

      Yep, your right foot is the determining factor. I am able to achieve the manufacturer's fuel consumption rating in my car if I accelerate slowly and obey the speed limit. I did it as an experiment, as I usually drive more like your wife.

      • by oic0 ( 1864384 )
        I love motorcycles because you can drive hard and still come within a couple mpg of what you would get babying it and highway / city doesn't matter much. My ZX6R gets 42 babying it highway, 40 flogging it city. My VTX1800 gets 32 babying it, 30 not My WR250X was an exception and got worse on the highway due to lack of power and poor aerodynamics but still managed 58 highway, 65 city.
    • I'm surprised your wife got 11 was it short city trips or did it have the V8? I have a regular Cherokee with the 4.0L inline 6 (now a light weight version with all the rust) and it basically gets 20 mpg, either going camping/hunting or around town hauling stuff or commuting when the weather is bad.

      You are correct in that often it is the nut behind the wheel that has the greatest affect on mileage. If I drive like a reasonable person in my daily drive I get in the 35-37 mpg range (summer time) but when I wa
    • by 0123456 ( 636235 )

      Perhaps this article might better be titled "Want better gas mileage? Don't drive like a gashole."

      Duh. When you have a tiny engine, you have to thrash the crap out of it to get anywhere. Which is probably the point of this article... the tests are unrealistic for small engines because they don't drive it the way a real driver would.

    • by Average ( 648 )

      It tells you exactly why in the article. It's the way people drive them.

      Doubly-so when we're talking about the vehicles in question in the article. Small displacement cars in the EU are, almost entirely, manual transmission vehicles. This means that you can precisely shift at 1500 RPM on the dynamometer test (which doesn't have any hills, traffic, or risk of death if you stall out), crawl your way up to speed, and get excellent l/100km results. This would be completely suicidal on an Autobahn or Motorway.

    • by sphealey ( 2855 )

      There's also the European preference for small high-revvers combined with the disdain for automatic transmissions. Yes, up through about 1990 a well-driven manual could provide better fuel economy. Today's computer-controlled automatics are more efficient than human shifters, and that's before any fancy radar-driven predictive shifting is brought into play.

      sPh

      Note that I am saying nothing about personal driving enjoyment preferences or ability to play boy racer, just fuel economy

  • Well it was interesting until they started talking about everything being more efficient at 55 mph. At that point, I was ready to give the author a boot party. Do not EVEN start that sh*t again.

    • It's true, though. For most cars, fuel economy declines as speeds climb past 55-60mph (wind resistance being non-linear). You're trading off fuel for time - get there faster, but use more fuel. We should let people make that tradeoff for themselves, however. Just price fuel appropriately (including the externalities of climate, military expenditures, etc.), and let drivers decide.

    • Well it was interesting until they started talking about everything being more efficient at 55 mph. At that point, I was ready to give the author a boot party. Do not EVEN start that sh*t again.

      Well, physics is physics. That seems to be the sweet spot, generally speaking. However, fuel economy is not my primary concern when I drive. I drive a fast car and enjoy driving it. The feeling of being pushed back in my seat and feeling the tires grip in corners is worth a few extra dollars to me.

    • There is also the problem with gear boxes. When you are in the top gear (or over drive) at 55 MPH, when you drive the speed limit at 70+ MPH you are 15 MPH into the top gear, thus increasing the revs just to drive the speed limit.

      The funny thing is for the longest time we heard you never need more than a 4 speed automatic. Then the EPA changed the MPG ratings to include 65 MPH and now we got 6 speed automatics. Then they added 70 MPH to the test and now we started getting 7-9 speed automatics. Funny how

  • Practically every card on the road today has a feature which calculates MPG (or L/100KM) historically. Just add a data field in the car's computer that keeps the historical number, even if the one on the dash is reset, and download it from a % of cars at their annual inspection. Won't help for new models, but will, over a couple of years, develop a very robust data set saying "the Ford Model XYZ tested at X MPG, but real world MPG are Y." Not flawless, naturally, since a different set of drivers for each

    • Not going to happen unless it's legislated. You can't trust the calculation given by the cars, and the automakers absolutely do not want every car to track this since they leave themselves open to lawsuits when the numbers don't meet whatever was advertised. For example, the readout on my car gives L/100km but it's rounded to the whole number! So it's useless even if it was accurate because the precision is gone.

      • Not going to happen unless it's legislated. You can't trust the calculation given by the cars, and the automakers absolutely do not want every car to track this since they leave themselves open to lawsuits when the numbers don't meet whatever was advertised. For example, the readout on my car gives L/100km but it's rounded to the whole number! So it's useless even if it was accurate because the precision is gone.

        The real issue here is that those numbers depend entirely on how the end user drives the car anyway. I used to own a Subaru Legacy GT LTD, with a turbo. The stock 0-60 time was 4.9 seconds. It could take off in a hurry. When I felt like being a bit on the sporty side, I would often get an abysmal 14-15MPG. If I were feeling a bit more conservative, I could easily get 24MPG in the same conditions. If I drove especially fast on the highway, I would get 21MPG. If I drove conservatively, I could get 28MP

  • As in absolutely NOTHING in the car, with a low weight person driving it, in optimal conditions.

    Hell, they would do it downhill if they could getaway with it.

    As for 'more for small cars', if you remove 30 lbs from a 6,000 lb vehicle, that is 0.5%, but if you do the same for a 3,000 lb vehicle, it is 1.0%. So yeah, optimization works better for a smaller car.

  • by Nimey ( 114278 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:02AM (#48091107) Homepage Journal

    Probably most of it comes down to driving style. People who are used to older cars with bigger engines will probably think a new model with a small engine is gutless and will floor the accelerator to make it go faster. Anecdotally, I drive a 2005 Civic Hybrid, which was originally rated for ~46 MPG with the "less realistic" measure EPA used back then. I've driven it 170k miles now and that is in fact its lifetime average - it has two trip odometers and I never reset one of them. However back when these were still pretty new I read reports of people who complained about getting only ~33 MPG out of an identical car. The only reasonable explanation is that they were flooring it between stoplights and generally ignoring the instantaneous and cumulative MPG display the car gives you.

    Basically people are impatient and don't know how to drive efficiently. It took me a few months to really get into the groove with mine and I still have to make sure I've got plenty of room to pass on the highway, but it's certainly doable.

    • I commented as you did, but apparently was not logged in. At any rate, I drive a turbo 2.0L now, and I get 24-25 MPG with a 2/3 split of city/highway driving, which is under the average on the sticker, but when I first got the car, I tested the MPG rating by accelerating slowly from every stop, driving at exactly the posted speed limit for city (25/35/45) and highway (55/65/70) everywhere I went and it hit the estimated numbers exactly. Driving only highway at the speed limit, I reached 32 MPG. Now, I don't
  • Most cars are only carrying the driver, and doing speeds of less than 120 kilometres per hour.
    In the rest of the world you don't need a multiton SUV for those uses.
    A 1 litre normally aspirated 4 cylinder should be enough.

    You can also get more MPG by using proper size gallons. (4.54 litres)

  • A one mile trip from a cold start would be a useful number for many people. Start car, drive kids one mile and back home, turn off car and six hours later one half mile for groceries and home. This type of driving can get some awful mileage results and for some people this is 90% or better of the use of a vehicle. I think the numbers from such a test would be a real shock for many drivers. And then there are those of us who live in areas where the car AC will be running twelve month
  • We *should* be using L/100km, like everyone else.

    And taxing fuel at a higher rate instead of this CAFE silliness. But that's never going to happen because if we know one thing about economics in America it's that all taxes are always bad.

    • by 0123456 ( 636235 )

      What possible benefit is there to taxing fuel, other than to hand more money to the government to waste?

      Oh, yeah, I forgot, it lets you force people into small cars they don't want, or force poor people onto buses.

      Why do you hate the poor? What did they ever do to you?

      • What possible benefit is there to taxing fuel, other than to hand more money to the government to waste?

        Oh, yeah, I forgot, it lets you force people into small cars they don't want, or force poor people onto buses.

        Why do you hate the poor? What did they ever do to you?

        The rationale for taxing fuel is to capture the externalities (pollution, climate, military costs) of using that fuel. The point about the regressiveness of the gas tax is valid, so we should raise the gas tax, but add a refundable credit to income taxes for it, to remove the regressiveness.

  • by orzetto ( 545509 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:16AM (#48091253)

    The study is by Emission Analytics, and here is the original link [emissionsanalytics.com] (as opposed to TFA from The Telegraph).

    Note some misleading elements from TFA: they show only the three smaller classes for UK cars, seemingly indicating that small cars are the worst gas guzzlers, whereas cars with higher engine sizes are actually much worse according to the original study (see the graph [emissionsanalytics.com]). So the lesson is: still buy a small car, just not a very small one for best fuel efficiency.

    Another interesting bit that is not in TFA is that the data for US cars is different: there, cars between 1 and 3 liters in volume (I assume this is the large majority of the car pool) have less than half the mileage. Also, the smallest US cars are actually the most efficient of any class, even though their efficiency is below UK average.

  • 1. Carmarketers like good gas mileage figures; they're good for sales.

    2. The specifications for the test are gamed to provide a bigger benefit for underpowered cars which tend to get better mileage anyway. The test include acceleration at a rate *that depends on the car's power* (percent of full-throttle). which has the big-engine (more powerful) cars zipping around the virtual course at higher speeds.

    Remember, lobbyists write or co-write most of our laws and regulations.

  • Top Gear had an interesting experiment where they raced a Prius against a BMW M3. But what they did was have the Prius go all out and the M3 just paced it. Then they measured the actual gas consumed and found that the BMW had better mileage under those circumstances.

    Some time ago I had a big old V8 car and I could pretty much halve my mileage simply by being only somewhat more aggressive. City driving would also send that car's mileage into a tailspin. The rated mileage was around 23/18Mpg but I would sa
  • by OneSmartFellow ( 716217 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:24AM (#48091347)
    (that being the USofA) is to worry about how far we can go on a tank of fuel. This is a throwback to the days when trips of any significant distance could easily leave you stranded between fueling stations (which used to be as much as hundreds of miles apart)

    In that case, knowing distance per unit of fuel is more important than fuel per unit of distance.

    In Europe, where distances are SIGNIFCANTLY shorter it is much more interesting to worry about the cost of the trip, especially when public transport options are close competitors in price. In this case the unit of fuel per unit of distance makes a much easier comparison.
  • Yeah, yeah, one data and all that.

    My 2010 Hyundai Elantra claims it will get 29/40. The first time I took it on an extended (highway) trip, I got exactly their 40 mpg figure (actually a fraction above).

    As to local driving, I filled up yesterday and the calculation gave me 32.22 mpg though I don't drive what one would consider true city driving such as in New York or LA, more a hybrid of stopping and starting with some distances in between. That is comparable to my usual number with has been as high as 35

  • by RogueWarrior65 ( 678876 ) on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @09:35AM (#48091513)

    This is what happens when uneducated, uninformed Peter-Principle bureaucrats dictate fuel efficiency standards without checking with real engineers to find out if it's even possible.

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