OEM Windows 7 License Sales End This Friday 242
colinneagle writes This Friday is Halloween, but if you try to buy a PC with Windows 7 pre-loaded after that, you're going to get a rock instead of a treat. Microsoft will stop selling Windows 7 licenses to OEMs after this Friday and you will only be able to buy a machine with Windows 8.1. The good news is that business/enterprise customers will still be able to order PCs 'downgraded' to Windows 7 Professional. Microsoft has not set an end date for when it will cut off Windows 7 Professional to OEMs, but it will likely be a while. This all fits in with typical Microsoft timing. Microsoft usually pulls OEM supply of an OS a year after it removes it from retail. Microsoft cut off the retail supply of Windows 7 in October of last year, although some retailers still have some remaining stock left. If the analytics from Steam are any indicator, Windows 8 is slowly working its way into the American public, but mostly as a Windows XP replacement. Windows 7, both 32-bit and 64-bit, account for 59% of their user base. Windows 8 and 8.1 account for 28%, while XP has dwindled to 4%.
Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows 7 64 bit [newegg.com]
I think Windows 7 is going to be the last Microsoft OS I'm going to buy. Linux is free. Hell, even OSX is free. Yet MS wants to keep gouging customers $100+. Uhm, no thanks.
Especially since you can use the Safe Boot > Repair Computer > and this batch file to have "unlimited" time to "register"
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I said that about Windows 2000.
Then the starving artists got their hooks into the open source desktops and fucked them all up.
Windows 7 it is.
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:4, Insightful)
All I need is 2 or 3 copies @ $100 to have a valid serial number.
It is not about "proving" anything to Microsoft. The _point_ was that there are already free alternatives that I use daily. Windows is no longer the "mandatory" software that it once was -- especially now that I gave up playing other people's games and starting making my own.
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, it just works in chrome these days.
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There's a lot simpler ways to unlock it than that.
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Without 3rd party software?
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micros... [ebay.com]
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 7 64 bit [newegg.com]
I think Windows 7 is going to be the last Microsoft OS I'm going to buy. Linux is free. Hell, even OSX is free. Yet MS wants to keep gouging customers $100+. Uhm, no thanks.
Especially since you can use the Safe Boot > Repair Computer > and this batch file to have "unlimited" time to "register"
Oh, you pay for the Linux and OS X, just not directly.
OS X is free on Apple hardware only, so you pay the Apple hardware tax.
Linux is free because it is open source, but that can have its own associated restrictions (associated with the time input required to it to a certain level of functionality, depending on your Linux expertise.)
So Windows is the only OS that directly charges you.
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is free because it is open source, but that can have its own associated restrictions (associated with the time input required to it to a certain level of functionality, depending on your Linux expertise.)
I guess you haven't set up recent Linux distros? Using Fedora, I can have a workstation up and running, fully updated in 30 minutes. Compare with Windows with the update/reboot/install for a day. At the very least, let's talk about the current state of Linux, and not its state as of 2001, OK?
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I've recently set up the following linux distros as guests under Win 7 in VirtualBox (all are 64-bit versions):
Mint 17
Ubuntu 14.04
OpenSuse*
Mageia*
* whatever the latest version was on Distrowatch or Livecdlist
NONE of them were able to successfully restart themselves after initial installation. They shut down to a black window, and stayed that way until I forced VirtualBox to power them off. After a manual start, they would all start up and ask for updates. Mint, Ubuntu and Magiea were OK (after installing hu
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Linux is free because it is open source, but that can have its own associated restrictions (associated with the time input required to it to a certain level of functionality, depending on your Linux expertise.)
Reductio ad absurdum.
Re:Time to "stock up" from NewEgg ... (Score:4, Insightful)
And Windows doesn't require you to jump through hoops to get it to "a certain level of functionality, depending on your Windows experience"? It takes me ages to make a Windows machine act like a civilized Unix box. It seems it takes you as long to make Linux act like Windows. I don't think that's a fair criticism of either OS.
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Alas windows is harder to keep running smoothly than either Linux or OS X. The windows 8 users on our network account for 90% of all support requests. Our linux and OS X users the rest. Now consider that around 50% of our users have windows, 40% linux and 10% OS X. These numbers only inlcude personal computers, not servers.
The windows users always seem to be reporting issues with performance, networking, printing, ms office being random etc etc, maybe they are lower calibre users but if that were true why d
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No matter how thin you slice it... (Score:2)
Linux is free. Hell, even OSX is free. Yet MS wants to keep gouging customers $100
We have been down this road countless times before.
In the general consumer market what people buy is the OEM Windows system install. Which tends to be a one time purchase for the life of their PC - with maybe one $15 to $20 upgrade to the next-generation OS.
When shopping for a new or refurbished PC or laptop, hardware with more or less the same specs will sell for more or less the same price, no matter what mass market OS comes installed.
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First you need a friend with an Apple computer and OSX 10.6.8 or later installed. Then you can download the 10.8, 10.9 and 10.10 version of OSX for free on the Mac App Store. If you do not own Apple hardware but want to try these OSes anyway in a VM for instance, it can get a little involved but is generally doable.
An obvious mistake... (Score:5, Interesting)
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But that's just it. The OnlyFree alternatives. The usability sacrifices they made to make it work on tablets and with remotes made Windows, both 8 and 9, into monstrosities that are horrible for a work environment because Windows doesn't separate their UI From the OS. I personally still use 7 at home because anything newer is horrible to do real work in.
On top of that, businesses have already experienced the problems associated with application dependance with IE6 and WinXP. They all felt the pain and learn
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This statement is silly. They are talking about stopping sales of OEM copies. These aren't sold as upgrades. They're sold for new computers.
This statement is unrealistic. When I upgrade my old computer, I buy new hardware and get the Windows OEM disk. The data gets backed up to the file server. The hard drives from the old system are wiped (if not replaced) and installed into the new system. New install from the Windows OEM disk. Data is transferred to new system from the file server. Old computer becomes the new FreeNAS file server.
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Your terminology is equally strange to your initial claim which has clearly resulted in a misunderstanding
You're not talking about upgrading here. You're talking about building a new computer with a few old hard drives.
Upgrading means keeping most of the system hardware, such as CPU, RAM, mother board and peripherals intact.
I would also like to point out that even with this meaning, your initial statement still doesn't make a lick of sense. If you're basically refreshing the entire system and just keeping a
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I originally compared Windows 7 to Windows XP. When my Windows system had XP installed, I bought an OEM disc for the first installation in 2001. Every two years after that, I replaced the underlying hardware. Each time I re-activated the original license after wiping the hard drive and installing from the OEM disc. Microsoft got paid exactly ONCE during those seven years. If Microsoft haven't offered Win8 as a $10 download, I'll probably still be using Win7 on my current hardware.
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Then you specifically violated Microsoft's OEM license under which the OS was licensed to you.
Why bother going straight now? Just get whatever windows you need off piratebay.
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Then you specifically violated Microsoft's OEM license under which the OS was licensed to you.
Microsoft had no problem activating Windows XP/Vista/7/8 for each hardware upgrade, especially when I had to call the support number because the online activation didn't work.
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Unfortunate... (Score:2)
Because I will NEVER use your windows 8 junk on a desktop. I gave it a fair chance, 2 weeks of uses and it was 2 week of utter shit.
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(Not OP)
Actually, to me, a "Windows 7 with slightly worse UI" is an understatement. If Windows 7 never existed, I would still be running Windows XP, maybe forced into Vista to keep my system secure.
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After that, you throw that sodding SystemD infested Ubuntu in the trash can and upgrate to FreeBSD.
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I couldn't agree more. Start 8 basically let me turn Windows 8 into Windows 7.1 - all of the underlying system improvements are there, with none of the UI "improvements." It's fairly irritating to spend $5 on a third-party configuration tool for just for my desktop, but since the result is IMHO the best version of Windows yet, it's hard to complain too much.
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You are using a third party tool. That negates your view of win8. You openly admit the UI is so shit you have to installed something else from someone else to make it usable.
Metro is certainly shit, but even without third party tools, Win 8.1 isn't too bad. I just boot to the desktop, use mostly desktop software, and seldom go into Metro. OTOH, you could still say the same about me as the above poster, namely that it's only useable because I'm avoiding Metro.
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...or it means that the UI is useable enough to where a simple 3rd party tool is all that's needed to give you what you want. Windows is an OS bundled with a UI. The whole point of an OS is to run 3rd party apps, including those that customize the UI.
Why not just complain that windows 7 is shit because MS paint is a crappy image editor.
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Re:Unfortunate... (Score:5, Insightful)
A *lot* worse UI. And since the UI is what the user touches more often than anything else in an OS, it is significant. I'm buying another copy of 7 just in case, and intend to wait until OS 10 SP1 (to give it a fair chance) before deciding whether I'm going to continue with Microsoft or not.
At work, management has already given employees a choice between Winders and Mac, and there is a growing community here of enterprise mac users. I don't think that's for me, not really an Apple fan, (my last Mac was a G4 -- I went back to Windows about the time Apple and Adobe got into a pissing contest) but I tried Windows 8 (my copy is now collecting dust on the shelf) and that just isn't happening.
Re:Unfortunate... (Score:4, Interesting)
A *lot* worse UI.
The UI is not a *lot* worse than windows 7 because the UI is nearly the same as 7. You are not forced to use metro. You can consider it just one more of many features of windows you never need to use.
And since the UI is what the user touches more often than anything else in an OS, it is significant
The UI is the *only* thing the user touches. It's the user interface. It is significant. No one is arguing that it is insignificant.
I've used a lot of UIs. I grew up using dos5, dos6, windows 3.1, 95, 98, Nt4, 2000, xp, 7, and dabbled in 8. I have also used a lot of open source UIs, bash, gnome, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, as well as consoles, android, etc.
I think a lot of people grew up using windows and are really used to it (I know I was). That doesn't mean a start bar is the *best* way to do a UI. It's just the way most people of a certain age group are used to. I am not a huge fan of metro, luckily you are not forced to use it. In linux you can have tens (maybe hundreds) of different UIs for the same OS. In windows 8 you can have 2 (classic and metro). In macOS I think you just get 1.
You should definitely consider whether you continue using Microsoft products carefully. But I would suggest that a bad reason to quit using Microsoft OSes is that they added 1 extra UI choice that you don't like. If your going to quit, don't quit because there are 1 too many choices, quit because there aren't more choices.
For people that were only mildly used to the classic windows UI (e.g. XP), the transition to 8 was only mildly inconvenient. I think the more you stubbornly stick to the UI you are used to, it will not only make adjusting to new versions of windows harder, it makes adjusting to any kind of new UI harder. Before you know it, you'll be the old guy living in a future he doesn't understand because it's not running on windows 7 or windows XP, or DOS 5.2, or VMS, or whatever.
I'm not saying that windows 8 is the UI of the future. It's not. But you should still be able to use it, and it's not worth hording copies of windows 7 to avoid having to disable metro.
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You can actually run alternate desktops on Windows. Explorer.EXE is the default, and the only one built in unless you count boot-to-CMD (which I'm not even sure is still an option on client versions) and Server Core (boot-to-powershell). However, it's one registry value to change that default shell to something else. There are a few third-party alternatives that are explicitly Explorer replacements, and you can also use thinks like KDE Plasma (and all the other KDE utilities, if you want) from http://window [kde.org]
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> The UI is not a *lot* worse than windows 7 because the UI is nearly the same as 7. You are not forced to use metro. You can consider it just one more of many features of windows you never need to use.
My first thought was that this statement was profoundly disingenuous, but then I realized that you may have used Win8 for awhile, put in a start menu replacement, disabled the hot corners and all the Metro stuff, went through file associations and changed every one from a Metro app to something that isn't
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I will start by saying I actually use windows 7 and various linux distros at home and work. My wife's laptop has windows 8 and I've built a few desktops for friends and family that have windows 8.
1. I actually think the search function completely removes the need for a start button. In fact the only time I ever use a start button in windows 7 is to get to the search, so I really could do without it.
2. Hot corners I find annoying, but I get the reason they exist and I think I could learn to appreciate them
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I don't discount your experiences. There are different kinds of people, with different work methods, and that's why there are different products.
Running Adobe CS in a virtual instance should be possible, but would require a lot more studly hardware than I have presently. And I suspect it doesn't really solve the problem, which is having to deal with Windows. You're still having to do that, but arguably only for the apps that necessitate it, which admittedly may be an imp
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I actually like the windows 8 UI (not metro). I was never fond of the Windows 7 look, aero, and stuff. Overall, I'd prefer to have zero width borders like osx, and one fault of windows 8 is that they removed the display settings to change border width (the default fat borders are just ridiculously ugly, and you have to use the registry to fix it).
You can pry it from my cold dead fingers (Score:2)
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Yes, Windows 10 is bringing the classic desktop back, but it seems that it is becoming a unelegant mishmash of Modern UI widgets and classic Windows widgets.
Anyone can try Windows 10 for themselves [microsoft.com] if they have a spare box or can run Virtual Box [virtualbox.org]. So far, "unelegant mishmash" is about right. Modern Apps seem like an emulation mode that intrudes on the desktop from time to time, even after taking steps to avoid them.
There's a lot of user feedback about improving the desktop over Modern-izing everything. All I want out of a new Windows is a better Windows 7, like performance improvements, bug fixes, a programming API that doesn't drive people insane, and more
Classic shell (Score:2)
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If you like living on the edge where any windows update can obliterate your copy of Windows and make the UI unusable.
Sounds like FUD. Classic Shell, occasionally updated, has been perfectly stable for me over the last 18 months or so of Windows updates. Install and configure Classic Start Menu (switching off all the charms and hot corner nonsense) and spend a few minutes setting file associations to not load any Metro apps, and you've got a perfectly decent version of Windows with some improvements over 7, like faster booting. The window decorations are a bit flat, but I never liked Aero Glass either. Windows 8 ought only
If they refuse to license and support it (Score:5, Interesting)
They must forfeit all privileges granted by copyright and patent law to allow others to pick up.
The deadline is near! (Score:2)
Quick!! Let's buy some extra licenses now before it's too late!
:-/
Oh wait...
Never mind, we switched to Linux a long time ago already
M$ will stop selling (Score:2)
To OEMs
But won't the OEMs stock up on Win7 (especially if they sell to the business market.)
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To OEMs
But won't the OEMs stock up on Win7 (especially if they sell to the business market.)
Windows 7 Pro OEM licenses will continue to be available for a minimum of one more year. As well Windows 8/8.1 Pro include downgrade rights to Windows 7 Pro.
Only benefit for a business customer with Windows 7 would be if they want Windows XP downgrade rights as that is not included with Windows 8. Downgrade rights is why for years corporations could buy PCs with Windows Vista or Windows 7 licenses, and image them to Windows XP for no cost. With actual Volume licensing agreements / Software assurance, you ca
broken upgrade method (Score:2)
Microsoft charges for upgrades which Apple does not. Over long run, this adds up to the cost of machine for customers. For MS, this is costly too as it has to maintain multiple versions of Windows. I think, microsoft should have option of unlimited upgrade either as a single charge or a reasonable subscription service. That will keep most customers (at least premium customers) up to date all the time.
Last Microsoft OS of relevance.. (Score:3)
Windows 7 will be a around for a very long time.. but I suspect it will be the last OS they have a monopoly on.
Anyone remember the background on boot for Windows 95, and all the controversy over "hidden shapes"?
Oh, the irony it was the cloud that killed Windows by rendering, largely, OS agnostic computing.
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You didn't look very hard.
http://kanishkb.tripod.com/win... [tripod.com]
There are others. It's old in internet time, though.
Backlog and Profits (Score:2)
MS clearly wants to force Windows 8 onto its users, even if it means pissing them off, we knew that from day one. This is clearly their last ditched method of getting it done.
Cant get someone to buy your "upgraded" product? Force them.
The sheer backlog of OEM keys will remain in circulation for at least 2-6months afterwards.
If you cant get a 7 Key after that, might as well buy a tablet. Then you can read on wikipedia about what computers were like before the "Useless Big Empty Square Monster" took over you
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So when is (Score:2)
the next good version of Windows coming out?
I hear they're skippimg Win 9 and going straight to Win 10 which will presumably suck, so when is eleven coming out?
Re:Stop developing 64bit (Score:5, Informative)
Well we can start with the memory limit. I'd only be able to use 1/4 of the RAM in my laptop if I had the 32 bit edition of Win7.
Sauce: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-c... [microsoft.com]
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Are the 64 bit registers and arithmetic used often, or would that have more of a scientific number crunching (corporate) application than anything else?
Or can they sometimes cram two 32 bit numbers in a register and process a 32-bit program twice as fast?
I assume that that 64-bit opens up a lot of extra room for processor commands. Do they use more commands making bitcode more succinct and faster?
And of course it would make them quicker to execute as more data
Re:Stop developing 64bit (Score:5, Informative)
As someone who has investigated what the compiler (.NET) does on a 64-bit machine I can answer your questions somewhat:
Are the 64 bit registers and arithmetic used often, or would that have more of a scientific number crunching (corporate) application than anything else?
Yes. The original registers were ax, bx, cx, dx, si (code pointer), di (data pointer), bp (byte pointer), sp (stack pointer). As you can see, there are only 4 values that you can hold at once. And cx and dx have special meanings in some commands, so only a and b are really free. This means that if you have even 3-4 local variables, most likely one or more are being stored on the heap. 32-bit doubled the size of all of these, but you were still basically severely limited to 2-3 registers at a time for actual programmer usage.
64-bit adds 8 more free and open registers (r8-r15). These can be filled with anything meaning that any subroutine that has local variables that go out of scope quickly most likely doesn't actually store these values on the heap at all anymore. This means that there is no memory access at all, which leads to much faster code.
32-bit goes up to 2 billion, so 64-bit math is rarely used for integers. But 64-bit floats are very common. And floating point math is much faster. Also, there are extensions for math like MMX, 3DNow!, SSE, SIMD, etc., all of which also have their own registers. And now people are using graphic cards to do really fast math sometimes as well.
Or can they sometimes cram two 32 bit numbers in a register and process a 32-bit program twice as fast?
You can, but with so many registers available now, there's usually no reason to so it rarely happens.
I assume that that 64-bit opens up a lot of extra room for processor commands. Do they use more commands making bitcode more succinct and faster?
All the new processor commands are called: MMX, 3DNow!, SSE, SIMD, etc.
It's not so much that the new commands make things more succinct, they just do more in hardware. For instance, if you have ever zipped anything, you have probably seen the CRC32 checksum that goes along with each compressed file. Well, that's now a command in SSE4.2. So you can have the CPU do CRC32 for you and it's 10-times (or more) faster than doing it in hardware. It's just a matter of whether, for instance, WinZip, 7-Zip, Explorer or whoever actually rewrites their code to use this CPU command. (And whether you downloaded a new version since they did this.)
Similarly, it's not a matter of whether a programmer knows about these commands, because these days most people write in Java or C#. It's a matter of whether the .NET or Java compiler gurus that turn the IL into assembly with on-the-fly compilation on your machine know about all these new commands. Since there is no CRC32 command in .NET, that command will never be used by most normal people, even if they are using CRC32's, because the Just-In-Time compiler can't tell that that's what their subroutine is doing.
And of course it would make them quicker to execute as more data can be crammed into a single word (The Word length would go up to match the number of bits, I assume. I think I remember working with 32 bit words in univ, so that makes sense)?
Actually, strings are a hair slower in 64-bit because they are usually UTF-8 or UTF-16 so characters are a little more inefficient to work with. I'm really not sure why there aren't new CPU instructions for the most common string functions for the most common string types. Maybe somebody can get on that. But I guess that most string handling is so efficient already that nobody notices that much.
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si = source pointer
di = destination pointer
bp = base pointer (also known as the frame pointer)
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There are times when you don't have a choice, but then, I agree, XP is a good solution. Or the XP emulation built into 7 Pro.
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32 bit cannot utilize more than 4GB ram. These days most new PC's come with 8GB as standard, and some even 16GB.
That's the big reason to move to 64 bit.
Re:Stop developing 64bit (Score:5, Insightful)
32 bit cannot utilize more than 4GB ram
This is incorrect, x86 can address up to 64GB of memory with PAE or 16GB if using PAE with AWE and the /3GB switch. MS limited desktop OSs to 4GB partially due to market segmentation, and partially due to a large number of consumer oriented drivers that failed validation if PAE is enabled.
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32 bit cannot utilize more than 4GB ram
This is incorrect, x86 can address up to 64GB of memory with PAE
But I have 65GB of memory, you insensitive clod!
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What you said did not refute that 32 bit can not utilize more than 4GB. PAE is 36 bit, not 32.
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Are you seriously that dense, or just trolling? The bitness is almost always referring to the size of an integer in the chips primary ISA.
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Ouch. You did not have to go full-on dick mode. It is possible to have a civilized discussion about this:
The MC68000 was a fake 32 bit chip. It had 32 bit data registers but only a 16 bit bus with 24 bit memory pointers; therefore, it is arguable that the "bitness" of a CPU is determined by the width of its memory registers/data bus.
A CPU with 32 bit data registers but a 36 bit width bus is arguably not a true 32 bit CPU.
Regardless, you were trying to be overly pedantic when you responded to
32 bit cannot utilize more than 4GB ram.
when he (she?)
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No, AWE allows more than 4GB in a single application, SQL Enterprise or Oracle 10G running on 2003 x86 Enterprise can utilize 32GB just fine, I know because I ran just such a configuration back in 2006 before x64 was mainstream.
Re:Stop developing 64bit (Score:4, Insightful)
You just listed all the reasons why they should stop developing 32-bit.
Re:Stop developing 64bit (Score:4)
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Are you trolling or what?
If you have a single process that needs to use more than 1.6 - 2.0 GB of memory ... you need the 64 bit version. And on top of that, if you've got 4 GB of memory the OS can use about 3 GB (total) due to the way Windows handles things.
The vaunted promise that 'things will run better and faster'
Who made that promise? I don't recall ever seeing that.
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If you have a single process that needs to use more than 1.6 - 2.0 GB of memory ... you need the 64 bit version.
Unfortunately Firefox doesn't have official, stable a 64 bit Windows version yet.
However when they do they will have no problem leaking memory up to 16 Exabytes.
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There is no earthly benefit to running Windows as 64bit
How about 16Gb+ RAM in ArcGIS or AutoCAD? You quite literally don't know what the fuck you are blabbering about.
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There is no earthly benefit to running Windows as 64bit and no one can articulate what that benefit is. Oftentimes it makes things worse as one is required to run parallel versions of things and not even Java is a one-size-fits-all across the board. The vaunted promise that 'things will run better and faster' is complete nonsense and hardware vendors as it is find it difficult or impossible to create useful distinctions in drivers or even sort out which version is a maintenance fix for what. So they killed off XP? Fine. Killing off Win7? Fine. Killed off Win8 with no clear path forward whereas 8.1 isn't an upgrade it's a replacement? Fine. And now Win9 is Win10 and once again Redmond will give us 36 dozen different sub-versions? Wonderful. But let's at least disabuse ourselves that 64bit is meaningful.
Regarding the benefits of Microsoft OS 32bit vs 64bit
These values are a huge deal for Citrix (or terminal server) admins:
Paged pool 32bit: 550 MB 64bit: 128 GB /3GB switch, but it's unusual to do that with Citrix or TS
Non-paged pool 32bit: 256 MB 64bit: 75%RAM up to 128 GB
Page Table Entry 32 bit: 250K 64 bit: 33 M
System Cache: 32bit: 860MB 64bit 1TB
Note: 32bit values are much lower with
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Grounhog day forever!
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If you change the OS and the manufacturer finds out it is possible that they will not honor the warranty seems like a good reason to not touch the pre-installed OS. Especially when you factor in the system recovery will put said OS right back (assuming you didn't kill that partition during the install of the alternate OS).
Then you open the can of worms that is drivers, quite a few Windows 8 machines lack drivers for win 7 and previous (then again makes a good argument for switching the users to Linux).
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I find it hard to believe that there's this big mass of home users out there who
1. Have a problem with pre-installed Windows 8.
and
2. Use only the pre-installed OS on the PCs they buy.
If 1, then why 2? If 2, then why 1?
Well, installing a different OS is a reasonable thing to do if you're relatively competent, but why would you pay the Microsoft tax once when you buy the machine, and then pay it again to install a different OS?
I have a friend who's wife has an architecture business. She does most of her work on the laptop (Windows 7). The laptop hard drive failed, so she decided it was time to upgrade, bought a Dell. Tried to work with Windows 8 for awhile, and sent the laptop back. Customer service was apologetic and
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
If it wasn't a big deal, why did Ballmer get handed his balls and Microsoft shift direction and at least partially restore the Start menu, with plans to bring it back it completely in the next version?
I'd say it was a very big deal, a very big deal that hurt Microsoft's image.
Re:So what? (Score:4, Interesting)
I recently upgraded my main gaming PC to 8.1 after a rebuild and I don't get all the bitching. It boots a lot faster than Win7, performs just as good (if not better), and the UI differences seem pretty trivial to me. I had gotten used to any changes within an hour. And I like that Security Essentials is now built in and doesn't even require a separate download anymore.
Maybe 8.0 was really godawful or something. But I had no trouble at all going from 7 to 8.1.
Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
I can appreciate that, for a gaming machine. My PC is my main workstation, on which I do a variety of stuff, sometimes all at the same time, and the Windows 8 gui was not worth the aggravation. But for games, sure. I bet most of your games will fit on one page of the start screen. If Windows is concentrating on being a gaming platform, then maybe it's time for business customers to look for something else.
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Note, Classic Shell is a must if you don't want to tear your hair out.
Classic Shell solves a lot of things, but it doesn't solve the control panel items being in multiple places, defaulting to full screen Metro versions of apps, and a half dozen other things. Most (not all) of these have solutions, if you're willing to put the time in, but there is one solution that fixes everything -- boot the Windows 7 recovery disk and choose install. Then wait for Windows 10 SP1. If Microsoft hasn't a clue by that time, switch to another platform.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Metro applications I've found to be too simple to the point of being useless.
Metro apps have to be purchased through the Microsoft Store. If nothing else this makes Metro a non-starter.
Configuration. While this has gotten better with 8.1 and some patches, configuration is now all over the place. Is it in the control panel, do you need to get to it through the charms bar, or the Metro configuration. Basically it went from being fairly easy to find and change the setting you want, to trying to figure out which interface should be used and flipping through multiple screen on that interface to finally find the one setting you need.
Ribbons, nuff said!
Application and games not working. The Sims Medieval, Diablo 2 are the two I know about. Now Diablo 2 is quite a old game, but The Sims Medieval came out after The Sims 3 and The Sims 3 works. Then there is WinDVD Pro 2011. Now I understand that for most people this works. For me it did not because I "upgraded" from Windows 7 and Windows 8 sometimes misses installing some key OS files. I think this case was scripting.dll, or something close to that. Only way to fix this problem would have been to reinstall the OS from scratch. I tried everything else. There were some other programs that I was able to get to work in Windows 8 with compatibility settings that weren't needed in Windows 7.
While file copying, less memory usage and less CPU usage was nice, the reasons listed above, plus some others I'm not remembering right now made me upgrade to Windows 7 when I got a new machine. Basically I was spending a lot of time babysitting an OS, where the OS is supposed to help me get work done.
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Why are you "trying to find the desktop icon"?? Win+D will take you straight there from anywhere, or right-click in the lower left corner (on the Start button, or where it would be) and choose Desktop; it's the bottom item and appears directly under your mouse (that menu - full of other useful desktop shortcuts like Computer Management and CMD or Powershell - can also be accessed by hitting Win+X).
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Most of what you talked about are annoyances, rather than serious issues.
An annoyance that appears every day becomes a serious issue.
--
BMO
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I don't care if its easy and became second nature to you in 5 minutes
MS cares. Because if that was the case with me, it was probably the case with most other users too. And they don't give a flying fuck about a handful of vocal critics on the internet, because there are ALWAYS a handful of vocal critics on the internet bitching and moaning about some shit. A lot of users will skip this generation, just as a lot of users always skip a generation or two between upgrades. But at the end of the day, Windows is still going to be the only OS sitting in most offices and homes. And
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It's fashionable to complain about the replaced start menu in Win 8.
It wasn't just that, it was all the touch shit crammed into a desktop OS that failed to work well with a mouse and keyboard. Ballmer et al., were chasing after the "golden fleece" of a "universal interface" by j-j-j-jamming touch into desktops/laptops. They thought that mobile interface on desktops would work better than desktop interface on mobiles (XP tablet edition, to be specific).
They're finding out that people use different form fac
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