Skilled Foreign Workers Treated as Indentured Servants 284
theodp writes: A year-long investigation by NBC Bay Area's Investigative Unit and The Center for Investigative Reporting (CIR) raises questions about the H-1B visa program. In a five-part story that includes a mini-graphic novel called Techsploitation, CIR describes how the system rewards job brokers who steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in the U.S., including the awarding of half a billion dollars in Federal tech contracts to those with labor violations. "Shackling workers to their jobs," CIR found after interviewing workers and reviewing government agency and court documents, "is such an entrenched business practice that it has even spread to U.S. nationals. This bullying persists at the bottom of a complex system that supplies workers to some of America's richest and most successful companies, such as Cisco Systems Inc., Verizon and Apple Inc."
In a presumably unrelated move, the U.S. changed its H-1B record retention policy last week, declaring that records used for labor certification, whether in paper or electronic, "are temporary records and subject to destruction" after five years under the new policy. "There was no explanation for the change, and it is perplexing to researchers," reports Computerworld. "The records under threat are called Labor Condition Applications (LCA), which identify the H-1B employer, worksite, the prevailing wage, and the wage paid to the worker." Lindsay Lowell, director of policy studies at the Institute for the Study of International Migration at Georgetown University, added: "It undermines our ability to evaluate what the government does and, in today's world, retaining electronic records like the LCA is next to costless [a full year's LCA data is less than 1 GB]." President Obama, by the way, is expected to use his executive authority to expand the H-1B program after the midterm elections.
In a presumably unrelated move, the U.S. changed its H-1B record retention policy last week, declaring that records used for labor certification, whether in paper or electronic, "are temporary records and subject to destruction" after five years under the new policy. "There was no explanation for the change, and it is perplexing to researchers," reports Computerworld. "The records under threat are called Labor Condition Applications (LCA), which identify the H-1B employer, worksite, the prevailing wage, and the wage paid to the worker." Lindsay Lowell, director of policy studies at the Institute for the Study of International Migration at Georgetown University, added: "It undermines our ability to evaluate what the government does and, in today's world, retaining electronic records like the LCA is next to costless [a full year's LCA data is less than 1 GB]." President Obama, by the way, is expected to use his executive authority to expand the H-1B program after the midterm elections.
Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Is anyone even remotely surprised by this?
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
Hopefully the non-IT, general public will be.
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:4, Interesting)
The LA Times has recently covered how Electronics For Imaging (EFI) clearly underpaid Indian immigrant laborers. $1.21 an hour in Silicon Valley, 122 hours in a week, and no overtime. Thank goodness EFI got caught!
http://www.latimes.com/busines... [latimes.com]
Still, I don't think the non-IT general public knows an industry called IT *labor* even exists. Except for the Obama-care website snafu that is. (Maybe in Oregon, the folks there know about Oracle Corp. by now) Millions of iPhones are begging for greater robotic assemblies, because those gizmos don't build themselves, and it'll happen.
try 30p an hour (Score:2)
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Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically what EFI did was wrong. But really it wasn't as egregious for the reasons some make it out to be. The workers were brought in for a few weeks to help with a data center move, probably put up in hotels and lived on expense accounts. Were they really "immigrant laborers"? Or just earning their same salary but working temporarily at a different company location?
Yes, this exactly! I am tired of local authorities telling me that my slaves are illegal in this country. They are beaten daily, fed and raped in accordance with local statutes in the country in which they were enslaved.
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It doesn't fucking matter what workers were, who they were, or where they came from. They and the company are bound by our laws while they're here.
Lets say your an IT contractor in Rajkot, India, you negotiate $1000 to deploy some systems onsite for a week, the company covers your living expenses. The put you on a plane from Rajkot to Mumbai, you work long hours for a week, you get paid and you go home happy.
A week later, you negotiate another $1000 to deploy some more systems, onsite. They put you on a pl
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Nope, and they don't care. They don't care that their cheap shitty chocolate comes from slaves. They don't care than Nike uses child labor. They don't care about the abusive practices involved in processing shrimp. They don't care about overfishing. They don't care about the pink goo in their food. They don't care about air pollution.
Face it, people are fucking stupid, and NO they don't care. If they did, actually, they'd probably be in favor of it, as long as it didn't happen to them.
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, and they don't care. They don't care that their cheap shitty chocolate comes from slaves. They don't care than Nike uses child labor. They don't care about the abusive practices involved in processing shrimp. They don't care about overfishing. They don't care about the pink goo in their food. They don't care about air pollution.
Face it, people are fucking stupid, and NO they don't care. If they did, actually, they'd probably be in favor of it, as long as it didn't happen to them.
Americans (people, really) care about what they're told to care about. Everyone is terrified of Ebola and ISIL and know something must be done; and it's not because of their good judgement and risk analysis.
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Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Time to form a union. No, seriously. STEM workers have been absolutely screwed to the point where no intelligent person should pursue that career in the USA. Talk with nurses to see how to make some progress.
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How dare you suggest such a thing. Are you a communist?!!
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Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
It's been pretty clear for a very long time now that the entire H1B program has become nothing more than a legal indentured slavery program for U.S. corporations, one that is intended to artificially lower U.S. worker wages and exploit cheap foreign labor without the stigma of "offshoring." This whole pathetic "STEM labor shortage" charade that the big-corps and the U.S. government are colluding on is one of the saddest dog-and-pony shows in U.S. labor history. A lot of degreed programmers can't even get a decent job anymore that pays even a living wage, and still Mark Zuckerberg et. al. are running to Congress crying "We can't get any American workers anymore, give us more H1B's!!!"
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still Mark Zuckerberg et. al. are running to Congress crying "We can't get any American workers anymore, give us more H1B's!!!"
Of course, they actually mean, "we can't get any cheap American workers anymore... OMG our profit margins!"
Cut them some slack; they're just trying to be "competitive" - which means "do the minimum required". (for when you see that in explanations as to why your raises/bonuses suck.)
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The critical problems are what you pointed out. A group of workers from somewhere else is not a major problem. A group of workers who can be legally abused is.
People who are in the country illegally are in constant risk of being deported, and have no legal recourse against abuse. This is, I believe, the worst part of such illegal immigrants. H-1Bs are in constant risk of being fired and then deported, and have no effective legal recourse against abuse.
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This is the biggest problem with H-1B visas.
Wanna bet that the following has happened with H-1B holders
1 holder finds out about something illegal or otherwise questionable in the business And is then told to keep silent or you will get fired and deported.
2 requiring bribes to keep your job (or "extra" fees that a US worker does not even hear about)
3 Off Books/Unpaid work
4 requiring Daughters/Wives "model" for or "entertain" the managers/ friends
or worse
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Is anyone even remotely surprised by this?
Maybe all the commenters here who have maintained that H-1B workers are paid the same as domestic workers and don't contribute to wage suppression in the IT industry.
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Before him it was the Bush Administration. Before Bush it was Clinton. Minions of the ruling class always do their bidding regardless of major party affiliation.
Exactly. Let's not get wrapped up in partisanship. It's wrong when either side does it, and both sides have.
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. Let's not get wrapped up in partisanship. It's wrong when either side does it, and both sides have.
Except one side claims to be on the side of the workers, and the other side... doesn't.
Re:Was pretty obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
So...how's that "Hope and Change" working out
I suppose you think Mitt Romney would have ended it??? Yeah, real champion of the little guy that one.
The fact is that NO ONE who runs for President or Congress anymore opposes H1B's. They're all now completely owned by corporations. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
Yes, YOUR GUY TOO!
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Obama's campaign promised hope and change, regardless of what the other candidates said about themselves. The GP had a point.
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Yeah and fucktards like you voted Bush in twice and he did the same thing. And I call you a fucktard because you obviously ignore that part so you can say something stupid and accusatory about the guy you don't like, who does the same things as the guy you do like. It's not because he's black is it? It couldn't be, you know lots of blacks right.
LOL, this is what happens when people confuse their candidate winning with them winning.
Time for Solidarity? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Time for Solidarity? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's literally the definition of a union, though.
I mean, more effective unions have mandatory membership, but a union itself is literally a group of employees in a field banding together to protecting their common interests.
Re: Time for Solidarity? (Score:2, Funny)
And we can make a program to streamline the process. That sounds like more fun. Screw the union, let's focus on the program. We'll need source control...
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That's literally the definition of a union, though.
I mean, more effective unions have mandatory membership, but a union itself is literally a group of employees in a field banding together to protecting their common interests.
Yes, I would call that the classic definition of a union. A bit different than the organizations that call themselves unions now.
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In that you have decided you have a political opposition to those groups, thus they can't be similar?
I'm sorry, that's still what unions are, and your various beefs with them and the legitimacy of those beefs have no bearing on the fact that they are.
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Hm. Are you really talking to me, or are you talking to someone with whom you recently had this argument?
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Unions should never have mandatory membership :/
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You do not need a union for solidarity. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, and other professions have worthwhile organizations, without unions.
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They kind of function like unions anyway. The ABA decides who will be a lawyer and on what terms in order to join the bar of your local state. Same with the doctor licensing boards and the CPA boards for accountants.
Unlike industrial unions though they've codified their positions in to the laws and as such can be "voluntary association" instead of a mandatory union shop, even though they function just the same.
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>Unions have mandatory membership for a damn good reason. It used to be that company men could come to your house at night and "persuade" you to voluntarily withdraw from the union.
Yeah, instead union members come to your house at night and "persuade" you to voluntarily support the union instead. Such a big improvement.
(Don't believe me? Google "slashed tires" "Detroit" and either "UAW" or "Teamsters'".)
These pro-union weenies make big promises but just read newspaper archives about what the unions act
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I was trying to avoid editorializing too much positively or negatively about unions, because my main thesis was one of simple fact, and opinions tend to distract from that.
Yes, mandatory membership has a history tied quite deeply with the de facto abuses that management participated in in negotiations.
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Just don't train your replacements.
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You'll notice that the US spends more than practically any country, and gets among the worst results.
You need to include those on the hardware end as well. Otherwise companies would just end up shafting a different type of tech worker. So not just programmers but tech workers in general.
Re:Time for Solidarity? (Score:5, Informative)
This trickles down to the US workers too. Here is how it works.
In a downsize you become unemployed. In looking for work, most openings are either entry level or contract positions with no benifits.
You earn too much to be eligable for Obama Care and the company plan is employee paid. If you have a spouse without employment, a mortguage, and need health care, there is a distinct lack of family wage jobs that isn't sucked dry by insurance in excess of 2K/Month. My COBRA insurance is higher than the mortgauge. This payment pretty much sucks up all expendable income normally used for living expenses.
Many younger workers simply forgo the insurance payments. Older workers don't have this option.
Re:Time for Solidarity? (Score:5, Insightful)
My COBRA insurance is higher than the mortgauge. This payment pretty much sucks up all expendable income normally used for living expenses.Many younger workers simply forgo the insurance payments.
Wait, I was under the impression that these health insurance exchanges would create a competitive marketplace where people could buy insurance at reasonable prices even if they weren't eligible for subsidies. You mean that isn't true?
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I have 3 options..
1 The affordable health plan under the contract employeer. It consists of a plan that limits the plan's maximum payments. Limits include Max of $20 for a perscripiton. Max of 250 for a hospital stay. and the list goes on. If you have ever stayed in a hospital or are diabetic, you will find your maximum out of pocket is the sky is the limit. The plan protects the insurance, not you against any expensive proceedure such as any surgery, MRI, etc.
2 Cobra, limited in duration.. till you f
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That is a $3k family deductible, with a $1.5k/individual. A lot of stuff is covered at 100%, some things you have co-pays of $5. They will cover anything, even if your doctor did not recommend it, no maximums of any kind, including lifetime. All out of pocket, including co-pays, count towards the deductible, whic
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A personal example was my mom's employer was constantly changing insurance companies to "save money". My mom was sometimes paying ever so slightly less, yay, save $20/month, but every time she went into the doctors, she had to fight tooth and nail to get the insurance to pay, during which time she couldn't go back to the hospital because of her
Re:Time for Solidarity? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's time to organize the world's programmers ... to protect our common interests as programmers.
What "common interests" are shared by the world's programmers? Even with the exploitation, these Indian workers are likely better off than they would be back in India. So Indian programmers likely would want America to keep the H1B program. In my opinion, the proper "fix" is to eliminate H1Bs and give foreign tech workers visas that are not tied to any employer, so that they can come to America and compete for wages in a free job market. I doubt if many American programmers would support that.
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Except that some companies seem to be bringing Indian workers to the US with promises of high paying (for India, at least) jobs. When they get here, the jobs mysteriously aren't there and they are put in houses with a bunch of other guys until a job arises. They are told not to leave the house for anything (food is brought to them) and they are kept from returning home. (One guy needed to return home to see his dying father and they denied him this.) The companies might be fined for their actions, but c
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Of course they are. They are getting a "prevailing wage" that is 10x what they could earn in India.
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It's time to organize the world's programmers and make it clear to business that we won't tolerate this treatment any longer. It doesn't matter if we form a union or not as long as we band together to protect our common interests as programmers.
I'm tempted to say that's a first world view. It's a lofty ideal, and might work if the playing field were more level, but when you're incorporating programmers from third world countries, who are looking forward to a subsistence wage in some craphole, it's hard to tell them to go on strike. These people are looking forward to 70 hour weeks (I've seen this, with H-1B workers locally) at lower-middle-class wages, as something that's *still* one hell of a lot better than they came from.
I suspect that attemp
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It's time to organize the world's programmers and make it clear to business that we won't tolerate this treatment any longer. It doesn't matter if we form a union or not as long as we band together to protect our common interests as programmers.
Why I sympathize with your sentiment, as someone with ~30 years experience in this field, I can confidently say that you'd have better luck herding cats. [ We can't even agree as to whether systemd sucks, or sucks a lot. :-) ]
But, but, teh STEM talents!!! (Score:2)
These poor 3rd-worlders have unique talents that could never be found locally, don'tcha know!?!?
Re:But, but, teh STEM talents!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
They do. The talent is accepting slave wages.
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What are you smoking?
The companies listed Apple, Cisco, Verizon pay wages most of America could only dream of -- especially since they typically require only a 4 year degree. According to GlassDoor:
Apple's entry-level Software Engineer title makes an average base pay of $119,268, plus $34kish in additional incentives.
Cisco's "Software Engineer" title has an average salary of $117,326 with about $20k in additional incentives.
Verizon's "Software Engineer" title has any average salary of $100,098. Only one
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Glassdoor relies on self-reported salaries and wages.
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The vast majority of H-1Bs are from India, followed by China at a fraction of the number. Should the U.S. be in the position of fixing India's problem with poor workers? If this was truly about getting highly talented workers that are not available in the U.S. these numbers wouldn't be so skewed toward a single country.
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These poor 3rd-worlders have unique talents that could never be found locally, don'tcha know!?!?
You mean someone who spent 7 years getting a PhD being abused and working 6-7 day 80+ hour weeks, then working as a post-doc with no hope of ever being faculty, at 60+ hour weeks and being paid $40k or less until their retirement without any benefits?
It's a talent all right.
seems to me (Score:5, Interesting)
The best thing to do is replace the H-1B visas that are tied to a specific employer and make them a general limited time employment visa.
If the employers say there's a specific need for more workers in a field then the govt can grant a few more of the new visas to those wishing to travel to the US.
This would mean employers would be have to pay the going wage to the newcomers, albeit with the downward pressures on pay that would come from an increased worker pool.
I could be crazy tho.
NOTE: All of the above is the view of a simple rustic Northern Irishman with no desire to move to the US. Well, mebbe somewhere with snowboarding. Seriously, I live farther north than Vancouver for fuck sake, but all winter is just rain and wind. An no. I'm not going to Scotland. Our whiskey is better. If i wanted to drink bog water i'd just drink bog water.
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H1B tax.
You should pay a tax on top of the H1B employees wages that makes the full package 20% more costly than employing a US worker.
My Great Grandparents were Indentured Servants (Score:4, Interesting)
Finally someone else is making this obvious analogy, but in one way H1-B is worse. Two of my great grandparents came to Canada as indentured servants. My great grandparents got married and fled their servitude into what was then the wilds of western Canada where as long as you could work or scratch some dirt for food and kill a little wild for extra you got along. Most of all no one was going to look for you and ship you back because there was no one to DO the work so a body was appreciated in a way, even one that wasn't a slave.
That last word being the key point. They don't want employees, they want slaves. If the free market was driving this to attract the best they would be offering all H1-Bs a premium salary and premium working conditions above local talent which would drive up wages and then supply ... guessing that is not the case.
Abuses on all sides (Score:5, Insightful)
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There are very powerful people with a vested interest in not ending this program, and especially not "fixing" these elements of it (which in their opinion are features, not bugs, of the program). So, it is going to take a lot more than a posting on slashdot to get this ended.
Perplexing? (Score:3)
What kind of stupid researchers are these? Regulatory capture, corporate welfare, and political corruption are plenty sufficient to explain the changes.
Only a knave looking for social justice in every action by a bureaucrat should be surprised, but he should be working at a daycare facility, not as a university researcher.
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It's a euphemism. The researchers have to pretend to give the administration the benefit of the doubt (i.e., by assuming they don't understand the reason rather than publicly stating that the reason is clearly to hide improprieties) or else they'll suddenly have to start filing FOIA requests for every damn piece of data they need (with the response redacted in its entirety, if the Administration even bothers to respond).
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:the bottom dregs for the cloistered elite. (Score:5, Insightful)
Slightly offtopic...
These companies insist you work in armpits like Bentonville Arkansas or Decalb Georgia so your salary can be shuffled down the chain to 40 grand a year not under the implication that your services are worthless, but under the assertion that the "cost of living" is so inexpensive you shouldnt need a respectable wage.
As a midwesterner, I'd like to tell you firmly to go fuck yourself ... but also I'm far too polite to do that.
Instead maybe realize that wage costs are only part of having your business in the "armpits" -- and a pretty small one at that. Real estate, utilities, shipping, taxes, buildout costs, and a lot of other factors make flyover states a financially beneficial place to locate a business. With tech jobs there's no geographical need to pick a particular location other than space, power and bandwidth -- and those can be bought. Why not go cheap?
Re:the bottom dregs for the cloistered elite. (Score:4, Insightful)
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"With tech jobs there's no geographical need to pick a particular location other than space, power and bandwidth -- and those can be bought. Why not go cheap?"
Availability of employees is a HUGE cost/risk in locating is an armpit state, or even armpit region of one of the coastal states. Locating in the Bay Area lets you pull local programming talent mostly at will. Pay a high enough salary and you can get a wide range of software talent as needed. Locate yourself in North Dakota and recruiting at almost
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Slightly offtopic...
These companies insist you work in armpits like Bentonville Arkansas or Decalb Georgia so your salary can be shuffled down the chain to 40 grand a year not under the implication that your services are worthless, but under the assertion that the "cost of living" is so inexpensive you shouldnt need a respectable wage.
As a midwesterner, I'd like to tell you firmly to go fuck yourself ... but also I'm far too polite to do that.
Instead maybe realize that wage costs are only part of having your business in the "armpits" -- and a pretty small one at that. Real estate, utilities, shipping, taxes, buildout costs, and a lot of other factors make flyover states a financially beneficial place to locate a business. With tech jobs there's no geographical need to pick a particular location other than space, power and bandwidth -- and those can be bought. Why not go cheap?
There are people who would want to live in such places, and there are people who would rather not. My company has 3 offices, head office/repair facility in rural Missouri, manufacturing facility in Houston, and a sattelite office in the country of Colombia. There was no way they could entice me to live in rural Missouri, but they were flexible enough to allow me to work in Houston. They got the person they wanted for the job, and I got a job.
There are lots of companies, though, who are not flexible. S
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Keeping their home offices in those locations is really part of the same game as the H1B exploit.
If they can get someone to move there and work for 20% less than the say the US average market rate based on the cost of living theory they know you can't leave.
You will by a house, which you will never be able to sell for enough to cover the majority cost of a similar property any place likely to offer similar employment roles. You won't having savings to make up the difference either because even if your wage
Re:the bottom dregs for the cloistered elite. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmmm... from my salary, which is about 15% off of what the average InfoSec guy with 20yrs of great experience can draw in the Bay area. I wonder at your supposition. In fact, I may spend the day wandering around my 75acres of well wooded land, or perhaps I'll ponder while I watch the soybean farmer that leases the other 75 acres is doing, or perhaps while I wander about my 4600 sqft home...
I lived in SoCal for 10 yrs. My wife is from the West Coast. I make a good living, and live a good life. Every now and then I get a nice offer from some west coast or other company to move and take up the urban life style. We consider it, and then pass. You can't trade knowing the people in your farmer's market by name, having conversations with the local coffee shop about roasting methods over a cigar and whiskey, all while enjoying an evening in which the background noise lacks cars but more than makes up for it with owls, crickets, cicadas, whipoorwills, doves, and all manner of other creatures.
When we want to go to the city... We drive and stay a week, or a weekend. We figure that the money we save on the home (my payments on a 30 yr note on the above property are just above 1100/mo insurance and tax included) and the time on the commute can be used on mini-vacations to the city.
There are things that we miss (an excellent dance school) but not a lot. We have a tutor that teaches my children Mandarin, and piano. They swim at the Y a few times a week, play indoor soccer on weekends. My wife acts in the local theatre companies (one of which is one of the longest continuously running theatre companies in the country). I can still go to the local gaming store and hang out with comic book nerds...
So... If you're pissed about the wage depression, you should probably look at a different profession, or another circumstance. From here, in Cali or any where else, I've never had a problem getting a good wage for the job that I do, nor have I had a problem getting offers for a damn good wage to live in the Bay, or Denver, or San Diego.
All of the above aside... The H1-B program is designed for abuse. It was designed by politicians. It falls under the same type of shit that had all computer workers classified as management/professionals to prevent hourly pay and/or overtime. The above was to point out that if you look somewhere other than the Bay, you can still build new stuff, and have a much better life. The Bay area is a technological sweatshop. Leave. When you leave, take your skills and desire to build with you. Make some other place in the country a great place to innovate. Austin is great, and not a terrible city (esp compared to the West Coast), Houston isn't bad either, lots of great places to live. When you build your customer base, move to a smaller town and enjoy your life, you only get one shot.
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A very well written non-response to the issue of wage suppression. As if everyone is free to pull up stakes and move, and there will be a nice six figure job waiting for you at the end of said move. And, if you've spent time in the Bay area, maybe you've heard of how rents have more than trippled in the last few years?
H1-B was designed to expand the labor pool and thus lower costs for corporations, while the working stiff still has to
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Which tech company is this that's based in DeKalb [County, I assume] Georgia?
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I bet he is talking about Cox Communications.
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They're in Fulton, not DeKalb (in the middle of the absolute most expensive part of Atlanta). The affordable parts of DeKalb are a 30 min - 1 hour commute (in each direction) away.
Ive done this (Score:2, Informative)
still worth it. Making 55k in New Jersey, sharing a place with 3 roommates, we have much better life than at home. Two of us found new sponsored green card jobs in last three years. I hope to be next. Our neighbors don't have work visas, they work to install toilets and things and also would rather be here than home.
Office jobs are not hard and this small price to pay to live in USA.
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Congrats to you.... I really mean it. But beware, because large companies no longer have any loyalty to their employees. If you can be replaced with a new visa recipient at a lower wage, you will be.
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I don't know where home is for you, but when considering the general state of most of the world it would seem that even though you clearly are better off now, and most likely you bring experience and funds back to your home country, an issue does remain.
There exists a real sense of morality, an instinct for solidarity, and foremost a sense of equality among people who are naturally different from each other. Large parts of Western society are wealthy enough to dabble in such philanthropy, and that is probab
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I don't know where home is for you, but when considering the general state of most of the world it would seem that even though you clearly are better off now, and most likely you bring experience and funds back to your home country, an issue does remain.
There exists a real sense of morality, an instinct for solidarity, and foremost a sense of equality among people who are naturally different from each other. Large parts of Western society are wealthy enough to dabble in such philanthropy, and that is probably a good thing. However, philanthropist of any economic background become conflicted when we observe that our unfair treatement is better than what you are accustomed to anyway. It highlights the inequality which is delieated by national borders.
Perhaps the hope that remains is that even though you came for the money, some of the good parts of the culture rubbed off on you. Finding the good parts of Western culture is a tall order in the corporate world though.
What, pray tell, do you consider the "good parts" of Western culture? Since it appears that is the shorter list than the "bad parts".
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Money is only as valuable as the work that can be purchased with it. The more talented people who work in the USA, the more valuable the money is as a whole, assuming we have e
Obama, Why wait ? (Score:3, Insightful)
"President Obama, by the way, is expected to use his executive authority to expand the H-1B program after the midterm elections."
I don't get it. If it's a good thing, do it now. If it's a bad thing then why do it later or at all ?!?!?
Filing this under hope and change
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I don't get it. If it's a good thing, do it now. If it's a bad thing then why do it later or at all ?!?!?
Because he thinks it's a good thing, but he doesn't know how to convince the rest of us that it's a good thing. That's about it.
Same reason Obomneycare was delayed. (Score:2)
Handjobs for corporations are unpopular when conglomerates are sitting on mountains of cash while real unemployment remains high. So, expanding the H1-Facscist program will be postponed until after the midterms, so Democrats running for office wont have to answer pesky questions about why we should be importing more workers when so many Americans are out of work.
happens anywhere... (Score:5, Interesting)
Believe it or not, this isn't much different than some desperate Russian woman seeking a future "husband" in a country with democratic freedom of some sorts, what they don't know - is that everything isn't milk and honey where they come to, they're still going to be second class citizens of the country they "escape" to.
Skilled workers dream of a permanent visa after slaving over minimum wages for 5 years in the U.S. And they pretty much have to accept the conditions, because they know...if they screw up after 3.9 years under slavery, all their efforts would have been wasted, and they have to return home. Don't like the job? No problem...there's 10+ million Asians just waiting to take your job mister so get in line or get lost is pretty much the response they'd get.
You'd believe it would be better in other countries, say...like the richest countries in the world...Scandinavia, but no. I have met a bus-driver that is a surgeon, an hardware engineer from Iraq that has to work at a friends convenience store to avoid being sent home. Several people that collects bottles in our cities, are former health care workers, well educated people, librarians, scientists and many more professional occupations they "escaped" from at home where their beliefs and freedom where suppressed, hoping to find a better life over here.
But all we do, is to complain about them taking our jobs (yeah, the jobs WE DON'T WANT TO DO...), and treat them like dirt.
The whole system has to change. We must modernize this world for the 21 century, we can't keep wasting our resources like that.
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"yeah, the jobs WE DON'T WANT TO DO..."
How does this relate to H1B's? There are plenty of people in the U.S. that WANT to work in the information technology field. The examples you gave don't make sense either....I'm pretty sure your friends convenience store and the bus company don't sponsor H1B's.
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There are plenty of people in the U.S. that WANT to work in the information technology field.
At minimum wages?
With a long expensive education behind you, being paid outrageously low wages doesn't cut it. But someone imported on a H1B visa is cheap, see this as an opportunity to work and live in the U.S, especially to get that permanent visa...which they can only apply for AFTER the 5 years with an H1B visa.
As for my friend, he too was an sponsored import BEFORE he ended up working for the convenience store, he just chose not to accept the work conditions where he worked.
I opted out too, I pr
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I still don't understand....if someone is here on an H1B sponsorship and leave employment for somewhere that doesn't sponsor, aren't they here illegally? Or in the examples you gave did these people already obtain a green card/citizenship?
Solution: Drop H1B and make immigration easier (Score:2)
The fact that companies can't get a hold of them due to elevated cost of the hire, makes them resort to H1B. Foreign workers, in turn, will gladly work for a low payment in exchange of a better standard of living. This is wrong.
Just allow skilled foreigners to immigrate normally, and don't give control over their stay to companies. This way everyone will play on an even fiel
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There is no shortage of skilled IT workers.
There is a shortage of skilled IT workers who are willing to work for what they perceive are "below market wages."
I can tell you as a person who has been hiring, you need to be willing to pay for quality. If you aren't willing to pay, the next best thing is H1B, where you get almost as much quality for significantly less cost.
Pretty much why I am turning down US job offers .. (Score:3)
I am from EU, however this situation around the H-1B visa is why I am not even remotely interested in most of the job offers from the US that I am getting.
I have been in a similar situation in Europe before my country entered the EU and it is a lot of "fun" when you have to go every year to the immigration office, apply for a work permit renewal and pray that some clerk didn't get off the bed with the wrong foot and won't deny your application because of some bizarre reason - forcing you to lose the job and to leave the country, potentially incurring catastrophic financial losses (relocating abroad/overseas is one heck expensive, especially on a short notice!). On top of that, there is the inevitable "second class" treatment of the foreign employees, because the company knows that if the guy decides to leave, his or her permit is cancelled and they would have to leave the country on a short notice. The alternative is to have their new employer re-apply for the visa/permit again, but that must be done while the applicant lives outside of the country (yay, Switzerland ...), waiting another 6+ months for the paperwork to go through, with no guarantee of success ...
Sorry, but this is not how you treat skilled workers that you are ostensibly so interested in.
The US is doing itself a lot of disservice with this, because apart from the horrid H-1B regime, there is little else available for foreign workers (good luck trying to get the "green card" ...). I am sure there are many companies that use the visa responsibly and treat their foreign employees decently, but it is still a pretty big sword hanging over one's head.
I am certainly not expecting any entitlement to have a job in the US as a foreigner, but right now if someone wanted to hire me, they would have to offer a very sweet deal for it to be worth the gamble with the visas for me.
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I am a European citizen living in California after six years on an H1B visa and now several years of permanent residence.
I don't doubt that these abuses occur at some companies, but there *are* companies who are interested in just hiring talent from wherever they can find it and paying above market rate to retain that talent. The US job market is a lot more cutthroat than in the main EU countries, with far fewer legal protections for workers and thus far more variability in working standards, but if you und
Quick - destroy the records! (Score:3)
"Perplexing to researchers" would not be perplexing to criminal investigators.
I Really Don't Know What I Don't Like More? (Score:2)
Or, those same businesses that have abused any non american national using the H1B visa system.
Or, the grinning showoff that thinks, "so what?"
Best Bet: Contribute to NumbersUSA (Score:3)
I hate to advise that. It is far from an optimal solutions. But, NumbersUSA is about the only organization with any juice at all, that is opposing the visa worker scam.
Again, I have a lot of problems with NumbersUSA. They are very strongly republican, although repubs are just as bad about immigration as dems. Also, they much more concerned with illegal immigration from Mexico, than they are with issues of visa workers.
Still, as I said, they are probably the best organization out there.
Sen. Hatch: high-skilled worker shortage a crises (Score:3)
> Hatch, in a speech at the corporate offices of Overstock.com in Salt Lake City, called for raising the cap on H-1B visas. "Our high-skilled worker shortage has become a crisis," said Hatch, who heads the Senate Republican High-Tech Task Force.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2838619/sen-hatch-calls-high-skilled-worker-shortage-a-crisis.html
Tie expansion to wage figures (Score:2)
If the demand for domestic tech workers really did outstrip the supply then the wages/salary for these positions would be increasing in response. The H1B program should be reorganized such that expansions in the number of issued visas can only happen when there is real evidence of a shortage through rising income.
The depressing part (Score:2)
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Punishing billionaires and mulitinational corporations? You got a better chance of Pat Robertson officiating gay weddings.
so the question then becomes exactly what is the government protecting us from?
High-paying jobs?
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The foxes long ago took over the hen house. Big corporations and the rich pays headline grabbing fines (Big Round Number!!!), but these are usually easily paid from the company slush fund. No individuals go to prison for this crap anymore.
Part of the trouble is the Holder doctrine, which tries not to punish shareholders for the bad acts of a few executives (who happen to be shielded from liability themselves as well) by not imposing fines or punishments that would materially harm a company. I will be gla
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He makes about 1/3 less than I do. In a free market economy someone really good should command what I can command.
No, in a free market economy you would both be making *his* wages. What you are advocating for is a protected economy - you want the government to put rules in place (or to maintain/enforce existing ones) to ensure artificially high wages for your particular skill set. You believe the status quo must be kept as is, even in a shifting global economy.
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You don't understand open source at all. There is nothing that says you cannot have a business model on top of open source. Most of the open source software I use is written by paid programmers.
Also, not every creative activity needs to be an economic activity. Many of the cherished human accomplishments through history were not driven by economic motives. Only a subset of activities which can be predictably modeled with cost-benefit analyses lend themselves to be cast as economic activities. If you entirel
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In addition, working on an open source project could be a resume-booster both in where you have worked (3 years at Firm X, 4 years at Company Y, and 5 years contributing to Popular Open Source Project Z) and what skills you have (using an up-to-date technology on the open source project while your day job still is stuck on OLDER_TECHNOLOGY).
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