TSA Has Record-Breaking Haul In 2014: Guns, Cannons, and Swords 276
An anonymous reader writes The TSA has gathered an impressive pile of confiscated weapons this year. In early November the agency had already discovered 1,855 firearms at checkpoints. In addition to guns, they've also collected machetes, hatchets, swords, giant scissors, brass knuckles, cannonballs, bear repellent and, this past October, an unloaded cannon. "Maybe someone has a lucky inert grenade they brought back from some war, or a nice cane was given to them and they forgot that the thing is actually a sword," said Jeff Price, author of Practical Aviation Security, "It's the people that are carrying stuff like chainsaws that make me wonder."
Chainsaws? (Score:4, Interesting)
You mean people who work for tree removal services? That makes you wonder?
We had a bad ice storm here last year, I personally know about a dozen people who flew in with their chainsaws to help with cleanup, and pocket sacks of cash since just about every tree in town was damaged.
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Well - I assume that they could be checked in as ordinary luggage as long as they don't have any fuel in them, but if people get them as carry-on luggage it's a tad unusual.
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when you charge people to check it in...
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Imagine having to wait while the guy attempts to jimmy it into an overhead compartment, I cant imagine it'd fit well.
Re:Chainsaws? (Score:5, Funny)
I cant imagine it'd fit well.
Well, just fire up the chainsaw, and carve the compartment so it fits.
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At Hartsfield (ATL) there was a display of items people have tried to bring onto planes. It includes lawnmowers, chainsaws, gas cans and all kinds of stuff. I don't know if it's still there or not but it was mind blowing.
Re:Chainsaws? (Score:5, Funny)
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don't remind me. I had to get rid of two cokes I bought at a place next to my gate at Shipol in October. I bought them so I'd have something for the flight. Talk about retarded security! People think the TSA can be bad but try a bunch of no-nothing subcontractors overseas trying to interpret the latest panic directives.
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Cannons, chainsaws, swords... Feh, that's nothing. I was on a flight recently where some terrist tried to get on board with 16 ounces of shampoo!!! Luckily, the alert and quick-thinking TSA guardians of public safety caught him before he could cause any gory deaths.
I was behind a guy that tried to bring not one, but *two* bottles of shampoo. The TSA agent was going to make him throw them out but he said "But these are from my doctor and very expensive". TSA said, "do you have a prescription for these?" He replied "yes," then they let him take the bottles through with no further questions. The shampoo didn't have any special labels to indicate it was prescription, looked like the faux "professional" shampoo in a white bottle you can buy at any hair salon. Apparently on
Re:Chainsaws? (Score:4, Funny)
Those bastards got six quarts of used motor oil and thirty seven dead CFL's from me!
Re:Chainsaws? (Score:5, Funny)
Tell me about it. I once saw a group of folks try to board a flight with their dignity intact. The TSA confiscated it all.
Re:Chainsaws? (Score:5, Funny)
I saw an old lady try to board with knitting needles! She was clearly hoping to make an Afghan in mid-flight.
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"The beauty of a chainsaw is that you don't have to start it. Just show up with it."
-- Joe Walsh, on checking in to hotels
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If you check it, they charge you $25.
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Of course, how else can one be ready for a mid-air zombie apocalypse.
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Right because you never know when a tree will need removing on board a plane in mid-flight.
And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow. I mean, I travel a ton and get annoyed by the TSA as much as the next guy, but you really think it's OK to take a gun onto an airplane? Agree to disagree. People who need to transport their legally owned firearms can do so through the simple act of checking them. There isn't an airline or country the world over that would allow firearms, not to mention loaded _with rounds chambered_ (FTFA) onto a plane.
We can argue all we want to about the cannon (I'm with the anon who thinks if you manage to hijack a plane with it... congrats!), but guns, grenades, large knives... just check it! This isn't a terrorism thing. It's basic safety 101, especially in an already stressful, crowded environment.
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you really think it's OK to take a gun onto an airplane
Not much worse than taking a gun to a shopping mall or movie theater, actually.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:4, Insightful)
Shopping malls don't tend to depressurize when punctured.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Insightful)
Shopping malls don't tend to depressurize when punctured.
Neither do aircraft.
The pressurisation pumps are more than capable of keeping up with the amount of air leaking through a thumb-sized hole.
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I'd just be concerned with the amount of air trying to escape through a small opening and demanding an increase in throughput by pressure at a weakened structure, potentially leading to getting its way and creating an opening large enough to let objects larger than bullets pass.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Interesting)
I get what you mean, but an airflow of 10-12psi through metal holes generally doesn't "erode" like that. The metal would have to be extremely weak and brittle already, say pre-fatigued to the verge of failure, in which case the aircraft was already a death-trap.
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Myth busters did that years ago. They pressurized a plane and shot a bullet through a window. It wasn't that bad.
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Plus no one has ever piloted a shopping mall into a building
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with some being shot out windows?
The multi-layered laminated windows on aircraft don't "shoot out".
[People have shot up planes before, you know. Both in actual acts of terrorism and in testing.]
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Every window on a large passenger aircraft are multi-layered laminated glass and plastic, not just the cockpit windows. They don't explode out when punctured.
As I said, people have shot up planes before. This is not a new thing.
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Why do you keep repeating facts? You're interfering with story-time.
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Because his facts are evolving.
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The danger is not depressurisation, the danger is damage to the flight control systems, damage to the electrical systems, punching holes in fuel tanks (and probably making a bit of sparking and friction heat while at it), puncturing a landing wheel and the like. There are many, many ways a small hole in a vital part can endanger or even disable a modern airliner. Add to that the danger of a sleep deprived, stressed out person on a red-eye shooting an innocent he believed to be a terrorist, or just that f-i
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:) that's right, bringing is a gun into an airplane is no more dangerous than bringing a gun into a school.
As we all know, there have never been any school shootings. ergo, guns on planes are perfectly safe.
Neither do airliners, unless you tear them in half (Score:2)
An airliner isn't going to depressurize from something like a bullet hole either. Now if a large bomb blows a 3 meter hole in the fuselage, that'll depressurize and people's ears will pop painfully. The pressurization air is the same compressed air that provides 85% of the forward thrust of provided by it's two 54,000 lb thrust engines.
Here's how much air is available:
http://code7700.com/videos/top... [code7700.com]
If the airliner is at maximum altitude when the large chunk of fuselage is removed and the cabin loses pre
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Still, it's not catastrophic. All that will happen is the masks dropping, the pilots having to don theirs quickly, lowering the altitude, and that's about it. Nobody should die if you merely shoot out through the fuselage.
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There are valid circumstances to fire a gun there. AFAIK there are no valid circumstances for firing a normal pistol in an airborne airplane.
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Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Funny)
We can argue all we want to about the cannon (I'm with the anon who thinks if you manage to hijack a plane with it... congrats!)
You know nothing. You put the cannons at the windows, and shoot at the wings of the other planes. Once they are hit, you throw hooks to hijack and loot! That's how to pirate an airship.
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Similar to how Peter used cannons to loot this poor mans sugar cane, tobacco and spices [youtube.com].
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You just gave some RIAA lawyer a brain aneurysm.
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Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Interesting)
If someone had a gun on September 11, 2001 perhaps the history would be different. In Soviet Russia all pilots were armed, and rightly so.
I travel and every day I see pocket knifes, souvenir knifes being stolen at the checkpoints. The other day my credit card size stainless steel multi-tool (ruler, screwdriver, wrench and a 2 centimeter cutting edge) has been confiscated because it had a less than one inch "blade". Yikes.
Every single day passengers bring bottles of whiskey and other alcohol in the glass bottles, which is essentially a ceramic blade/knife, if the bottle is broken. Heck, you can buy alcohol in the airplane.
I have interviewed several airport security directors and directors supplying security solutions. All of them, in private, agreed that this is a security theater.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:4, Insightful)
I travel and every day I see pocket knifes, souvenir knifes being stolen at the checkpoints. The other day my credit card size stainless steel multi-tool (ruler, screwdriver, wrench and a 2 centimeter cutting edge) has been confiscated because it had a less than one inch "blade". Yikes.
To be fair, John Pistole (the TSA head) tried to drop this restriction and permit knifes with blades <= 2.36 inches, but transportation workers, victims groups, and various congressmen thru a hissy-fit [usatoday.com], so he was forced to drop it.
2.36 inches!! Land of the brave, my arse.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:4, Insightful)
If someone had a gun on September 11, 2001 perhaps the history would be different. In Soviet Russia all pilots were armed, and rightly so.
I travel and every day I see pocket knifes, souvenir knifes being stolen at the checkpoints. The other day my credit card size stainless steel multi-tool (ruler, screwdriver, wrench and a 2 centimeter cutting edge) has been confiscated because it had a less than one inch "blade". Yikes.
Every single day passengers bring bottles of whiskey and other alcohol in the glass bottles, which is essentially a ceramic blade/knife, if the bottle is broken. Heck, you can buy alcohol in the airplane.
I have interviewed several airport security directors and directors supplying security solutions. All of them, in private, agreed that this is a security theater.
No it wouldn't. It wasn't a problem to fight against the hobby knives unarmed either, no one expected the hijackers to be suicide terrorist, and the only thing that would make a difference is hind-sight.
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pre-911 being hijacked meant "If you sit down and be quiet, we fly this plane to Cuba, protest for a bit and then everyone goes free. An inconvenience, but nobody gets hurt. If you try to fight back, you'll be killed." So even if someone had a gun in the first two planes, they would have likely kept quiet until it was too late.
The passengers in the third plane did try to shoot back when they found out what happened to the first two planes, but a passenger with a gun might not have made much of a difference. At that point, the terrorists had control of the airplane and even a gun wouldn't have given the passengers the upper hand quick enough to keep the terrorists from crashing the plane.
Nowadays, if someone tries to hijack a plane - even if they intend the "flight to Cuba" kind of hijacking - the passengers are going to rise up, guns or no guns.
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In Soviet Russia all pilots were armed, and rightly so.
Citation needed.
Well, they were often loaded. Not sure about the armed part.
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People who need to transport their legally owned firearms can do so through the simple act of checking them.
There is about the same chance of a gun getting discovered by the TSA at checkpoint as there is of getting your gun discovered in luggage. However, the chances of them confiscating it if discovered at the checkpoint is 100%, while the chance of TSA stealing it out of your luggage is probably only about 1/4 or an 1/8th of that. Statistics say that you should check your gun, because 80% or so of the time, it will not get stolen.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, you really should carry on anything worth mo
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Informative)
Err, you know you are not only allowed to lock luggage containing a gun, but you are required to do so? It's spelled out explicitly in the rules. [tsa.gov]*
While it was a few years ago and the laws may have changed, I read somewhere that you should travel with a starter pistol. The TSA considers them guns, which means you are allowed (required) to securely lock your checked baggage, but (most) states don't consider them weapons, so you can travel with them to different states without multiple concealed carry permits.
* this is with a real lock, not a TSA lock
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only does it let you lock the gun, but there is no way in hell any airport or airline is going to let themselves be "the one who lost a passenger's gun", because that means some criminal somewhere just got their hands on a firearm that they were responsible for transporting safely. If you want your luggage to arrive safely, a starter pistol or flare gun or similar are probably among the best insurance options you can buy.
Except that.. (Score:5, Interesting)
These people are generally not bringing their gun on an airplane because they want to shoot someone (I can't vouch for everyone's intent). These are people that probably have a valid conceal carry permit, don't normally fly, and just worked out of habit only to have their stuff confiscated. Meaning, that while it was an error they can't get their stuff back.
Do I find an inert hand grenade paperweight to be a terribly frightening weapon? Nope, but the TSA does and confiscates those too. Gag items like giant scissors are not a threat either, well maybe if they were sharpened in in the hands of Chuck Norris (who would be a threat without the giant scissors). A "cannon ball" is not a threat without, well.. a cannon and a good amount of black powder.
Maybe the term "mens rea" is lost on you, but it has been a critical part of western legal systems for centuries. At least until recently anyway. IMHO this is just the TSA trying to A) Justify their job. and B) Attempt to humor us in that attempt.
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Maybe they figured cannonball guy and the guy with the cannon were in cahoots.
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These are people that probably have a valid conceal carry permit, don't normally fly, and just worked out of habit only to have their stuff confiscated. Meaning, that while it was an error they can't get their stuff back.
If you forget that you're carrying a firearm you probably shouldn't have a concealed carry permit in the first place I say this as a Second Amendment supporter and holder of a concealed carry license in a State (New York) where it's pretty damned hard to get them. What excuse is there for neglecting to remember the fact that you're carrying a firearm?
I concur with your sentiment about meas rea, FWIW, but still....
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Actually, that's a good point. Do they let Chuck Norris onto an airplane?
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IMO all adults (with exemptions for handicapped and/or mentally disabled) should be *required* to carry a handgun on an airplane. If everyone is armed, the terrorists have no standing at all.
Rentals should be made available at the terminal, for people who don't own guns or forgot to bring theirs.
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Archie Bunker said it best. 'When you get on the plane, the stewardess should hand out pistols. When you land she should collect them.'
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People who need to transport their legally owned firearms can do so through the simple act of checking them.
WHOOOOOSH!!!
That was GP's whole point: anybody stupid enough (or forgetful enough) to try to carry something like this onto a plane just isn't much of a threat.
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US Marshalls carry on planes, some airlines have firearms in the cockpit.
http://www.tsa.gov/about-tsa/law-enforcement-officers-flying-armed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service
So it would seem for someone that travels a ton you are blissfully unaware that there is a high probability that flights you are on have a firearm inside the cabin with you.
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i'd be more concerned with turbulence. you're going to stow that chunk of solid metal in the overhead? that thing ever pops out of that bin, and it will kill someone, no might or maybes about it. also, what kind of lunatic would think that that would pass muster?
Re:And how many were terrorists? Oh, right, zero. (Score:5, Insightful)
let's also consider that there have been no successful terrorist activity on US airlines since all these measures were put in place.
However, all non-successful attempts were stopped by passengers on the aircraft, not TSA.
TSA cannot point to a single example of a terrorist being stopped by them. Not one.
(And you know they would be shouting it from the rooftops, given that they brag about stealing items from non-terrorists as if their agents had done something good.)
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I know what you mean. Just why the hell can't we bring chainsaws onto the 747!? Have they gone mental? When is the last time that a terrorist with a chainsaw took over an aircraft? Please! Anyone with half a brain knows there is no way you could really run with it either, the isles are too narrow. Besides, who would notice it in operation over the crying babies? What on earth happened to our freedom!?
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Leaking gas for one thing. Same reason you shouldn't carry propane stoves, gas fueled lanterns or any number of potentially hazardous devices.
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The stuff on their prohibited list is pretty silly though. They wouldn't let me bring a piano tuning wrench in my carry on. It's basically a fixed socket wrench about 12 inches long, no sharp edges or points so can't be used for jabbing/prying like a screwdriver, and designed to be lightweight so you couldn't use it like a hammer. But there's some rule prohibiting tools over 8 inches,
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>so I had to pay 25% of what a new one cost to check in my carry-on bag.
Bingo! That's why people carry stuff on that they would otherwise check. Airlines started charging for checked bags.
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How many had intent to hijack? (Score:4, Informative)
zero.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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poverty: americans got to take their looming debt
The debt is a joke, because it's denominated in dollars. It's not going to destroy the economy, it'll just be annoying inflation like the 70s again. Of course, if you own government bonds that won't make you feel better.
These crazy archeologist... (Score:4, Insightful)
From the paternalist, condescending article: Beyond firearms, of course, TSA officers encounter an extremely wide variety of other prohibited items at airport checkpoints, including ... an unloaded cannon.
Because archeologist or collectors should absolutely check in priceless historical artifacts! It's not like baggage handler would steal anything, or the airlines would lose luggage, ho ho, how silly.
Hey, this thing was a firearm once, right? So it's totally justified, innit? Even though the picture even shows that the thing is rusty, unable to fire, and very old.
Do you know how funny it is in Dilbert cartoon when the PHB adopts a tone of condescending smugness to assert misinformed, ill-reasoned opinions? Well, somehow, these bureaucrats don't manage to make it funny.
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I have had almond butter confiscated... so reason has nothing to do with it.
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I had the same happen with soy butter (for someone with a peanut allergy). The can was opened and some was eaten. I was bringing it back home to give to my son (who was too young to eat peanut products at the time). TSA insisted that the flowing substance was considered liquid and could be dangerous. Luckily, my parents were nearby (were seeing me off) and were allowed to take it back to their house (where it could at least be used) instead of letting it be thrown away.
I'm sure a wanna-be-terrorist woul
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when the PHB adopts a tone of condescending smugness to assert misinformed, ill-reasoned opinions?
Gygax could come across like that sometimes...
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Disappointed (Score:2)
meh. (Score:2)
Anyone who tries to take a gun or chainsaw on a plane is a moron, but making people leave their nail clippers etc is bullshit.
What about martial artists who's hands alone are far more lethal than some stupid pointy keyring? How come they dont stop them from flying? I'm surprised that the TSA hasn't already tried to make everyone fly in handcuffs.
Security theater (Score:2)
TSA trying oh so very hard to appear effective.
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It is more likely to break a toe from being dropped than actually pose any danger to a plane. Specifically this canon was found in luggage, not carry-on, making the threat non-existent. It is no more dangerous than any other hunk of metal.
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Specifically this canon was found in luggage
I believe I once had a record of Pachelbel's Canon in my luggage. Perhaps you're thinking of cannons.
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Specifically this canon was found in luggage
I believe I once had a record of Pachelbel's Canon in my luggage. Perhaps you're thinking of cannons.
I had a Pachelbel's Canon printer once, but it kept printing the same page in various orientations and reversals.
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Matter of fact, a high proportion of antique blackpowder weapons are indeed packed with powder, because they were often stored that way.
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And a cannon ball? Well - you can of course cause some injuries with it if it starts to roll around, but so can a bowling ball.
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I have actually had my round ended paper cutting scissors taken, you know the ones that have a difficult time cutting paper... i certainly felt safer without them.
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you know the ones that have a difficult time cutting paper... i certainly felt safer without them
Reminds me of a sign I once saw at one of the area surplus stores for one of those camping survival tools [4imgs.com], except these were really cheaply made ones that looked like they were sand cast. The sign read:
Warning extremely dangerous!!!
Not because it is sharp
Because it is cheap crap
Agreed (Score:2)
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Great! You've got that one covered!
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That must be why Mythbusters always drive to their remote sites.
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Bear spray is quite nasty stuff. It's meant to stop something big and mean, or at least pursuade it to look toward less-equipped hikers.
Would you have had the "is ... a weapon?" response had it been tear gas instead of bear spray?
The last hike of the vacation was the Grinnel Glacier Trail, and at the end I gave my can to someone headed up that didn't have one. Wasn't going to do me any good, didn't need it at home even if I could get it on the plane, and they weren't properly equipped to hike in Glacier N
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OK. I can see cannon or swords as weapons. That's the point of them. But why is bear repellent a weapon? Are bears secretly part of the anti-terrorist program?
A bottle of bear spray is 10 oz of 2% capsaicin. If that accidentally or purposely was released it could incapacitate an entire plane. Given that there is no reasonable use for said spray while flying, it makes abundant sense to pack it away so the chances of release are minimized. All it takes is one half crazed passenger to put a whole lot of people in serious jeopardy. And we all know that a typical flight carries more than one half crazed person.
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I look forward to the movie "Bears on a Plane"
Re:Good job guys (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much what I thought. Let's compare that to how many of these things would have gotten on a plane pre-security theater.
Guns? Nope. Metal detector. ... heavy. Not dangerous.
Hatchets, Chainsaws and the like? Nope. Metal detector, not to mention that these things are frickin' bulky.
Cannonballs? Erh... Metal detector, but without a cannon they're just
Bear repellant? Oh. No. You could have gotten that on board. Using it would have been a different issue, since yes, you could have maced the whole crew and some passengers... before the rest of the passengers pile up on you and KILL you because they're afraid you might be a 9/11 attacker.
Folks, the 9/11 attacks are like the old trojan horse story (the real one, not the malware). It worked once. ONCE. It will never ever work again. Nobody will ever again go "oh look, a horsie, our enemies made us a present, let's haul it into our fortress!". And neither will people sit down quietly and hope that the hijacking will be over soon. The reason people did that was simply that until 9/11, that's how hijacking worked. You hijack a plane, you demand to fly to some godforsaken country where you trade the passenger hostages against some "political" prisoners. That's how this spiel worked. 9/11 changed that.
I promise you, if there are ever again 4 idiots with carpet knifes trying to hold up a plane, they have exactly ZERO chance of survival. What's the worst that could happen to you if you attack them? Well, they could ... cut you... What WILL happen if you don't? Plane -> Building -> fiery death.
What's the logical thing to do?
CHARGE!
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I promise you, if there are ever again 4 idiots with carpet knifes trying to hold up a plane, they have exactly ZERO chance of survival.
That's because the next time it won't be with carpet knives.
Re:Good job guys (Score:4, Informative)
That's because the next time it won't be with carpet knives.
No, it's because hijacking of airplanes ended on 9/11. Unless you can get more hijackers than passengers onto a plane (or at least enough hijackers to physically overpower the passengers) it can no longer work. It only worked before because passengers figured if they just went along all would end well and they would be - at worst - inconvenienced. That changed on 9/11/2001.
There have been people try to hijack planes since then. Here's one story:
http://news.investors.com/ibd-... [investors.com]
6 people tried to hijack a plane - 4 of them survived. I probably don't have to explain it but the other 4 didn't exactly "meet their objectives" if you know what I mean.
Here's a guy who actually had a gun on the plane - I think he was the one who's life was saved by the police who stormed the plane after it landed. He had boiling water thrown on him before the beating:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/... [washingtonpost.com]
Again, he had two guns, it didn't matter.
Hijacking was ruined by Mohammed Atta and friends 13 years ago. Since then we had the shoe bomber (failed) and Smokey the Terrorist who set fire to his own penis (brilliant) before being subdued by the other passengers. Even on Flight 77 over Pennsylvania on 9/11/2001 the passengers found out what was going on, but the hijacker was able to ditch the plane before they breached the cabin door. The sap that they had left out to keep an eye on the passengers was burned with boiling water and beaten with a fire extinguisher - keep that in mind in case you have stupid hijacking friends and they want to lock you outside the cabin.
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This is why we can't hijack nice things.
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That's because the next time it won't be with carpet knives.
It will be knitting needles, but those are permitted on flights now.
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That report comes pre-printed on every blank sheet of paper there is.