Microsoft Has Received 1 Million Pieces of Feedback For Windows 10 236
jones_supa writes Microsoft's Windows Insider lead, Gabe Aul, has announced that the company has received one million pieces of feedback through the Windows 10 Technical Preview Feedback app. The app opens right from the Start Menu and it has been critical to the operating system's development allowing testers to send details to Microsoft about what they think of Windows, problems they have been facing, and if there are any improvements they would like to see. The app has been part of both desktop and phone flavors of the OS. Microsoft seems to have made a real effort lately to listen to consumer feedback and has been opening up avenues to discuss new features for some time. Have you sent feedback through the app?
The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspect (Score:5, Interesting)
As you can read through other people's bug reports, I noticed 90% of them are not in anyway helpful to the developers - statements like "It deosunt prnit" (with no further information as to what didn't print and on what hardware) or "why are you so dtoopid!" --- "useful information" to that effect.
It's frustrating reading because this is a chance for users of Windows to get the best possible outcome by making their voices heard - unfortunately the vast majority of people making noise should probably have stayed silent, which only increases the chances that genuine bugs and useful feedback will be lost in all that mess.
Re:The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspec (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it was more of a PR stunt for Microsoft to be able to say "there are enough people interested in Windows 10 to contribute 1 million pieces of feedback" and "we're listening to you, the computer-using community" than it is about responding properly to any particular piece of feedback.
Re:The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspec (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspec (Score:5, Interesting)
I was reminded today, that very often a company will kill the golden goose for a kick ass deep-fried goose and have an awesome quarter...
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That's what the "bonus" concept gets you. It worked so great at C-Level with CEOs gladly burning down companies to meet their bonus goals, let's spread that insanity all over the company so everyone can participate in blowing up value built over decades to meet some arbitrary bonus goals!
'cause this is how you play the bonus game. You don't work to accomplish anything. You work to meet some arbitrary but measurable bonus goals. Usually you can gauge whether they are doable or not. Now, the goal is of course
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Actually, they have a strong financial incentive to pump the stocks at the exact moment when they are allowed to sell them.
If you're smart, find out when that would be for your CEO, for that's about the time when a round of layoffs is due.
Re:The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspec (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a non-trivial problem. The only way to eliminate the organizational corruption potential and inject more expertise in the lower tier reading is to use a vote system, like Reddit or Slashdot. Politicians' staff does something like Slashdot, whereby feedback from constituents is categorized and summarized. But that kind of system isn't foolproof either.
It's a marketing ploy, but it's a very good one, and to some extent it certainly has helped to improve the OS. Microsoft would have to actively try to mess things up for that to not be true, and they surely wouldn't be the company they are if they did things that way. I'm hoping Windows 10 is to Windows 8 as Windows XP was to Windows ME. It very well may be, and Windows 8 isn't all that bad. DirectX 12 is almost certain to be amazing, for example.
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It is like XP ... buggy and will require a sp just like XP did and has ugly theme.
Win 7 was awesome at this stage and solid enough to go head to head with Vista and XP. Just Mere weeks before feature freeze it does not look good.
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But I swear to God, if MS messes this one up and PR firms try to stop me from giving them crap, then I will repeat myself on every damn social media site that exists. I'll even make a (shudder) Facebook account for it.
But that won't be
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The trouble with a voting system where >99% of the users won't vote on >99% of the proposed changes is that you have special interest groups and semi-celebrities that dwarf everyone else who can't be arsed. You really need to get the opinion of a representative sample and see if 10% like it and 90% don't care or 10% like it and 90% want to burn it with fire.
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It's frustrating reading because this is a chance for users of Windows to get the best possible outcome by making their voices heard - unfortunately the vast majority of people making noise should probably have stayed silent, which only increases the chances that genuine bugs and useful feedback will be lost in all that mess
Let's just hope they can task an intern level employee with sifting out the stupid and passing only the potentially useful stuff up to where it might be useful!
Re:The quality of a lot of that feedback is suspec (Score:5, Insightful)
I am never going to develop a website using a tablet or phone or anything other than a desktop with shitloads of memory and a full keyboard.
Anyone using .NET, which was supposed to be a big thing starting around 2003 or so, and is still a big thing, is not going to be doing this on a tablet.
I don't want to use a tablet interface to develop for your stupid tablet interface using a tablet. I'm not going to do it.
I will encourage leadership, and that means people who would be glad to spend money for me, to not update at all.
But my voice apparently goes in the bucket of "user" rather than "people who further extend our monopoly".
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I sent in my request that Win10 supports bash or even csh like Linux and OS X. But instead we have powershell, which has absolutely no value to me as a hw/sw engineer. I'm not really looking for a new way to lock in, I'm looking for a way that the OS becomes useful again, rather than a beast i'm forced to use for certain company's games.
Sometimes you get the feeling they don't really want feedback, they want bug reports or free marketing.
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If you want cygwin, you know where to find it.
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I want to not need cygwin. I want to not have to deal with / vs \, and C: versus /mount. I don't want to have to write small utilities and have to push a cygwin.dll so people can use them (or even know what cygwin is).
Basically I want Windows to be functional out of the box for real work, not just playing games or powerpoint.
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Then why do you want bash or csh, which are inherently unix-centric and require the use of forward slashes, and know nothing about windows drive letters?
From your post there I can tell you've never used cygwin. It uses /cgydrive/c for C:, not /mount. Which isn't that hard to deal with. Works well for me, since I'm used to Unix to begin with.
There are a variety of command-line shells available for Windows you can try out. They each seem to somewhat resemble cmd.exe with various enhancements.
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They each seem to somewhat resemble cmd.exe with various enhancements.
That's because they actually use cmd.exe as the console engine. :)
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Bash or csh don't have to know about "drive letters", just like they don't need to know about /vol, or /usr. It is just part of the file path and any file path that the OS understand is fine for bash or csh.
As for" forward" [sic] slashes, c:/xyz is a valid path for windows. Even if it weren't, the completion logic in at least bash is fully pluggable so it would just* need a completion module to support backslashes, besides recompilation, ironing out niggles that would creep in and bug fixing.
Even if bash c
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That's just it, though: Windows /is/ so functional out of the box, it's just that you're too lazy to put in the effort to learn how to use it best.
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Problem is in Unix everything is a file. In Windows everything is an object.
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I noticed 90% of them are not in anyway helpful to the developers - statements like "It deosunt prnit" (with no further information as to what didn't print and on what hardware) or "why are you so dtoopid!" --- "useful information" to that effect.
Well, after Windows 8, it's just payback.
After all, this is the OS gave us:
"Its flat. Flat luks cool."
"Start Button iz lame. Start screen is mor usefl."
"Mrtro is the fut0rz. EVerything is fill screen!!1"
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Sadly, most people are idiots... (Score:2)
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If you buy a blender and it doesn't turn on, you'll take it back to the shop where they'll say things like, "You plugged it in? Locked the jug on top of the base correctly? Pressed this button here?"
"It doesn't print" is a bug report, but it's a report that implies a two-way conversation is going to take place. Perhaps Microsoft should have said in the app, "Hey, put as much info as you can in as to what you were doing at the time, because we can't get back to you once you hit submit."
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How do you know "it doesn't print" isn't a complete and useful report? I haven't read the privacy statement for this, but it would be sensible for the OS to capture recent activity in a bug report, no? But perhaps I give MS too much credit - much as I think their heart's finally in the right place, I'm not sure their head is yet.
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"It doesn't print" isn't a complete and useful report because it is just one step up from simply saying "it doesn't work". Presumably it does print for some people, so the developers really need to be able to narrow down the problem.
Does it crash as soon as it starts the print process, or does it go appear to generate each page? Does it send anything to the printer (flashing light on printer), but just no pages are emitted? Is it just that blank pages are emitted? Or random garbage characters? There can be
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It is not that terrible, because a shit lof of "telemetry data" is collected and thus they should know what the printer was, error messages of the print spooler or even some internal state of the service.
Or so I would think.
When Firefox crashes and asks to send the crash report, I never add information, or perhaps once in a thousand time.
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But when Firefox doesn't crash it doesn't send that information (obviously). The equivalent of "it won't print" would be "the web page is blank". A rendering error will not trigger the crash reporting system.
However, if a bug report is generated due to a crash in the print spooler then it will be obvious that it didn't print so adding the text "it won't print" provides nothing useful.
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"It doesn't print" is a different bug report than "it prints garbage". Sure it'd be nice to know if the printer was turned on, connected, had paper, and so on, but you can't get that from a bug report anyhow, because customers lie in bug reports. All you can trust is your telemetry data anyhow. (I used to support a complex product for a very technologically sophisticated customer base, and even then: if the advice tech support gave didn't work and it got to me, chances were the bug report was full of fa
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"It doesn't print" is a different bug report than "it prints garbage".
That's true. It is also different to "it prints blank pages" and "it emits no pages". "It doesn't print" is vague and unhelpful, because as you said customers lie in bug reports and will therefore say it won't print when it actually prints garbage.
Having been the recipient on many a bug report that was as simple as "it won't print", I know that you almost always have to follow up such general bug reports with questions to narrow down the problem. This is especially the case with printing when the problem ma
Apps? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's some feedback: can we please go back to referring to programs as programs?
Re:Apps? (Score:4, Insightful)
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http://blog.oxforddictionaries... [oxforddictionaries.com]
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I suggest we call them Applications. But really that's a lot to type, so I'm happy if we abbreviate it.
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Here's some feedback: can we please go back to referring to programs as programs?
Not going to happen.
People are becoming accustomed to moving freely between fixed and mobile devices of every sort --- using "apps" which share a common look and feel and are increasingly in synch.
LibreOffice is a program.
The quintessential office suite of the 90s, boat-anchored to the desktop.
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An App is nothing but a buzzword for the millenium generation who is used to not having more than 3 letters to describe anything because of the text message limitation.
Us old geezers still prefer to call it an application.
Reason Win 10 has more feedback vs Win 8 (Score:5, Funny)
start by not going flat win 2.0 icons (Score:4, Informative)
I found this [neowin.net] very disturbing.
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Looks good.
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Wow, that looks like Windows 3.1 with a taskbar. Yikes.
Re:start by not going flat win 2.0 icons (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows 3.1 already had a 3D look and far better icons. This is Windows 2.0 at most.
Re:start by not going flat win 2.0 icons (Score:4, Insightful)
They've got to try to restore performance somehow. Getting rid of detail and gradients really helps with performance. Too bad it's still sluggish.
Do you really think that today's GPUs, which can render incredibly-detailed 3D scenes in video games 60-100 times per second, REALLY have trouble with a simple Gradient Fill?
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Do you really think that today's GPUs, which can render incredibly-detailed 3D scenes in video games 60-100 times per second, REALLY have trouble with a simple Gradient Fill that's been written by Microsoft?
Yes
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The reason is because Aero can take up 600MB of very precious video card RAM, depending on screen resolution and other factors. That's a *lot* of RAM to be losing access to just for a desktop you can't see while playing a game. That's 600MB out of the 1-2GB a typical card might have.
It doesn't matter whether the icons have a flat look or a sculpted 3D light sourced look or whatever, they are still just bitmaps that are blasted to the screen using a bitblit operation which is stupidly fast on any card made s
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The reason is because Aero can take up 600MB of very precious video card RAM, depending on screen resolution and other factors. That's a *lot* of RAM to be losing access to just for a desktop you can't see while playing a game. That's 600MB out of the 1-2GB a typical card might have.
It doesn't matter whether the icons have a flat look or a sculpted 3D light sourced look or whatever, they are still just bitmaps that are blasted to the screen using a bitblit operation which is stupidly fast on any card made since the late 80s. Aero sucks for many other reasons, but flat icons in not even remotely one of them.
Thank you for that extremely erudite explanation.
I knew it didn't make sense that performance would suffer due simply to computational backlog in the GPU, and of course, BitBlt was an unlikely culprit, it being THE basis of GUIs since SmallTalk brought us the concept, and something that even the weakest GPU can do blazingly fast with half it's pipelines tied behind its back; but lack-of display-buffer memory can't be overcome, no matter HOW fast you can blow stuff into said buffer.
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He's wrong, though, as is the parent he replied to. GPU memory is managed and prioritized by the Windows kernel. As such, any memory needed for a game or other application is released from DWM.exe (desktop window manager) as needed. Also, unlike Linux, turning off desktop composition is completely unnecessary and can actually lower performance in some instances. Outdated FUD dies hard.
Well, then, thank you for your even more erudite explanation!
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600 megs???
I just opened MS I afterburner and don't see any of this.
If that were the case Macosx from 2001 has gpu acceleration on intel 3d chips (not cards) with no video ram run fine. My Mom's 2006 era integrated intel 940gma runs aero fine. He'll my 2010 galaxy s1 runs 3d acceleration fine.
To top it off window 8 uses wdm and 3d acceleration anyway but emulates 1980s colors and styles. No gains
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It's the new thing
Medically... (Score:2)
Does a huge spew of vomit count as one instance of feedback, or do they count the chunks and derive a more realistic number?
they didn't listen to Windows 8 feedback either (Score:5, Interesting)
posting AC because... well, obvious reasons.
In the later stages of internal previews of Windows 8, they asked us employees to give feedback on various iterations of the Metro UX. We'd dogfood the latest, click thru, give feedback, and in several instances, the running totals were displayed. I wish I'd taken more screenshots, because the consistent feedback internally was about 80% disapprove/unhappy with the tiled Metro UI + compenentry on the desktop or laptop. (Much more positive on the phone, tho.) Seriously, with a 20% positive feedback rate, we were told, "customers love this" and "you're the only people who feel negatively about this" and they rammed the crap UI through into production. The rest is history.
What makes anyone think they'll actually listen to feedback this time? This time with a sheltered brogrammer for a CEO, even less tolerance for dissent, and a massive brain drain prompted by layoffs, it just doesn't seem like "better" is probable at all.
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I imagine working inside Microsoft is much like living in North Korea, where your chances for survival depend not on your truthfulness or work results but rather on how much you agree with the leadership. "Yes boss, Metro UX is the greatest thing ever!" = promotion. "Metro is a crime against humanity" = firing squad for your career.
Living in Seattle, I have lots of friends that work at Microsoft. Typically, I get the impression it's actually a really nice place to work. The only thing people really care about it their own group and they are free to use their iPhones, ect. The true danger is not speaking ill of another group, or even your own, but rather then endless reorgs that happen without any sort of reason that the employees can tell, and getting your group downsized or dissolved because of them.
Amazon however. That company is su
A truly bad sign. (Score:3)
When a technical preview receives that many comments it's a truly bad sign for multiple reasons:
1. The vast majority of it is likely to be noisy crap or stupendously duplicated complaints which drive issues out of view.
2. With that much feedback some seriously heavy analytics will be required to actually identify the core issues addressed in the feedback.
3. With heavy analytics useful posts get destroyed, and what may have been a detailed bug report complete with reproducability instructions may be simplified to "Issue with start menu"
I would have preferred it if they had less feedback.
"Feedback" (Score:3)
Oh, I always give tons of feedback when using Windows. But I am polite enough not to save it.
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I'd love to give feedback. But they won't let me attach a pic of my hand showing a digital 4.
Ten pieces of feedback 100 000 times (Score:5, Insightful)
Designed by comittee (Score:3)
of one million.
Lets not forget the keylogger. (Score:2)
I wonder if they count keylogger captures as part of this feedback?
Could it maybe be a wee bit ... biased? (Score:2)
Let's see... you're asking people who willingly go out of their way to spend their time beta testing a system for free.
Hmm.
I wouldn't expect too much harsh criticism.
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Unfortunately I have work to do and no time to become an unpaid beta tester.
Server 2012 R2 vs Windows 10 preview (Score:5, Insightful)
What I find interesting is that Microsoft's server version of the OS is pretty damn good. With the server, MS knows exactly who their target market is and develops tools that are amazingly good (Visual Studio is much the same). In that OS, the Modern UI elements they blend in with the tools (like Server Monitor or Resource Monitor) actually make sense and give the admin of the machine an good overview of the health of the machine. I don't see their crazy attempts to blend in touchscreen elements with traditional programs to try and force UI paradigms. Furthermore, you can even decide to install the "core" version of the same said OS. That version has no GUI. It's command line only. Granted it's Powershell, but if you've drank the MS kool-aid and learned PS, it's not a terrible way to admin a machine.
In the consumer market, they really don't know for what platform they should develop the OS for. In the past, they have blindly laid down the UI paradigm of Touchscreens and forgot that Windows machines are also used for content creation, not just consumption. In the process, pissing of the majority of their consumer base that don't use touchscreens. It wouldn't be perceived so damn bad if MS made a decent tablet without it costing $2k and without the multiple hardware iterations to get there. I remember watching the reveal of the Surface and thought if they actually come through on hardware, they could actually have something useful that professionals would seek out. But no, they screwed that up too.
I think it's business as normal in MS and this press release is there only to feed the news cycle and for blogs to get all a twitter about. Internally, MS will manage to screw it up yet again by not regarding any of the feedback as worthy to alter their internal course of action.
Received Not the Same as Considered (Score:2)
Everyone hears advice, who listens to it?
For instance, I don't think people like square corners over round. The border-less buttons are slower for the eye to see. Drop shadows helped us figure out which window was on top. But the marketing people who are designing operating systems don't seem to care.
No one needs ... (Score:4, Funny)
I wanted to participate (Score:2)
I think it's in my best interest to participate in the beta, because sure enough I'll have to use it some day. But I felt so badly burned by Windows 8 (I have a copy of "Windows 8 Pro" in my bookcase -- anyone want it?) that I had decided to hang onto Win7 until it done don't work anymore. But there's part of me that realizes that the day will come at some point where I'll have to upgrade to something, thus the somewhat anxious interest in what Win10 would be.
But what the heck. The household got off XP,
Re:too bad they ruined it, again. (Score:5, Informative)
At least Microsoft and Slashdot listen to users. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to give both Microsoft and Slashdot credit. At least they do listen somewhat to users who voice concerns about their products. It's still not as good as Windows 7, but at least Microsoft is getting rid of some of the worst parts of Windows 8 in Windows 10. And Slashdot did the right thing by getting rid of its shitty beta site after so many users pointed out just how shitty it was.
But Mozilla? Do they listen? Nope! Firefox keeps getting worse and worse with each release. The ruined UI stays ruined, and stuff like Electrolysis and asm.js are just half-assed clones of stuff that Chrome has had from the beginning, or has a much better approach for. Then Mozilla pisses around with something as fucking awful as Firefox OS.
And then there's GNOME. Do they listen? Nope! GNOME 3 was by far the worst open source screwup we've ever seen. It's still total shit, years later. If you don't believe me, go look at recent versions of gedit. Yeah, that's how badly they fucked up what was once a usable text editor.
Finally we have Debian. Do they listen? Nope! Debian's quality has taken a nosedive since they started pushing systemd. What was once the most robust and stable Linux distro, even when it came to its testing and unstable versions, is now one of the most unstable and fragile Linux distros.
Microsoft and Slashdot have done the right thing by at least addressing some of the many issues raised by users. But these other projects, like Firefox, GNOME and Debian, need to start doing that instead of just treating their users like dirt.
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Finally we have Debian. Do they listen? Nope! Debian's quality has taken a nosedive since they started pushing systemd. What was once the most robust and stable Linux distro, even when it came to its testing and unstable versions, is now one of the most unstable and fragile Linux distros.
What are you talking about? Debian became unstable because they use systemd? Really?
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"It's still not as good as Windows 7...": now that is comment which worries me...
Why? Yes this is a pro linux site and somewhat anti MS too. But if your stuck running some business app or prefer to run Linux in a VM then what's so bad about windows 7?
To me it is the best version since 2000 and is gorgeous and macosx like
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There is too much value in listening to the users.
I am not saying the users comments are useless, but if you try to follow your users direction too much you end up compromising your design, and there is a point where they will just have to do it a new way.
When people say I want the start button back. I want to know what problem they are trying to solve with it. Is there an alternative that is better.
My issue isn't the lack of the start button but how it full screen takes my eye off of my work space and giv
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I don't get the hate about Mozilla, the "File Edit View..." menu bar is enabled back with a couple of clicks and then what I'm getting is good enough. Still gets faster, lighter and less crashy because all of the work is under the hood, and last month replacing Ad Block Plus with ublock made it faster/lighter too.
Re:At least Microsoft and Slashdot listen to users (Score:5, Insightful)
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There is no real penalty for not listening to users and just doing what you want.
Your project gets forked and you lose your users. It's happened many times.
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You loose credits. So there will be less contrabution to your product, distribution companies will not use your product and your name may be a stain, so your contributions may not be welcomed in other projects.
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Your project gets forked and you lose your users. It's happened many times.
Like when? And what negative effect has that had?
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The software was Xfree86 vs Xorg. The quickest way to get up to speed on the politics of that fork is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X... [wikipedia.org] XFree86 was the default X server for 15+ years till it made a nasty license change and all the distributions dropped it like a hot potato for Xorg in 2009.
Re:At least Microsoft and Slashdot listen to users (Score:5, Interesting)
The penalty for open source is the same as for commercial software - an erosion of their user base. Open source that doesn't get widely used doesn't tend to get a lot of broad developer support either - no one wants to be working on a piece of software that few people are actually using. In the case of Mozilla, their declining userbase directly impacts their ability to earn revenue via search placement deals. Firefox is not developed with volunteer labor.
So, I don't think it's necessarily true that there's no penalty. It's probably more accurate to say it's more of an indirect penalty than with commercial software. Keep in mind that plenty of commercial businesses have failed so badly to deliver a solid, core product that they've gone bankrupt as well. With open source, the "fall" is a bit less dramatic, since the project just quietly stagnates instead of disappearing altogether.
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There is no real penalty for not listening to users and just doing what you want.
This. In my experience of many decades using software program flaws, be them bugs or UI issues are longer lived in open source software than in commercial software. In commercial software either you fix it or your competition will.
In open source software the standard answer is: "the source code is there, fix it yourself!" which is as realistic as telling passengers on a falling plane that they are welcome to try to fix the problem.
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Your community can provide feedback to specific cases. It cannot tell you how to design your product. You want good design, hire people with experience in design. You want the ultimate "design-by-committee", let users have a disproportionate access to your design process and watch them fight and
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I don't think Gnome 3 is shit at all, plenty of people, including myself use it happily. Gedit? Its fine.
Then I think you are in the minority. Case example. I set up a set of workstations with Centos 6 and Gnome 2. Several teams of visiting scientists and engineers with Windows and Mac background (none have ever used Linux on the desktop) were immediately productive and even commented on how well the GUI was to use.
I started to "upgrade" to Centos 7 and Gnome 3 and they were lost and confused and starting getting complaints.... Intuitive things like "Why can't I just right click the application and add to the
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It doesn't really look like Microsoft was listening.
Did you provide feedback?
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This should be up-modded. Yes, we need a way for users to fund open source developers directly. I would certainly pay a few hours of development time for somebody to implement video playback support in evince. (I am waiting for the feature for years, but instead evince got a new GUI).
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Re: Obligatory (And Paraphrased) Comment (Score:4, Informative)
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Depends on whether MS decides to continue the success story that Windows 8 was.
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Most advanced? Anyone know what the current Mac OS version is?
Remember: There's always going to be someone with a higher version number than you...
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Nope. They skipped that one, they'll ship systeme.
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Why feed back when, you can fix it yourself.
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I bought a new Winbook tablet a couple of weeks ago, and for the little that I do w/ it, it's okay. I wanted to get the trial version of Windows 10, since I plan to migrate this to that platform whenever it's available. I checked out the Windows store, but didn't find any such app. Where is it?
Please don't tell me to check out the app on my iPad or Android tablets -I won't! I'll only do it on the one tablet I currently have that runs Windows.