Windows 10 Enables Switching Between Desktop and Tablet Modes 240
jones_supa writes: In Windows 8, you were trapped in either the Modern UI or using the desktop, and going back and forth between the two worlds was cumbersome. Windows 10 takes a hybrid approach, allowing the user to choose between a classic desktop and a full-screen mobile experience. The feature, which has been developed under the name "Continuum," is now simply called "Tablet mode". In the build 9926 of Windows 10 Technical Preview, switching between the modes can finally be tried out. The leaked build 10036 shows that eventually you will also have the option to automate the process for dockable devices. Since Windows 10 is being positioned as the one OS for all of Microsoft's devices, being able to control the desktop and tablet experiences like this is critical to appeasing the consumer.
I must be missing something. (Score:3)
Clicking on one icon to switch to "metro" and then clicking on another to switch to "desktop" doesn't seem terribly cumbersome. On my tablet, search/replace click/tap.
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I just checked it out... it doesn't go to metro... it goes to "everything is full screen unless you pull an app to the side for a split-screen effect.
Basically, it's like a tiling window manager, except you only have the choice of one or two windows at a time...
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Um... I didn't know metro still showed the taskbar and window decorations... oh wait, it doesn't.
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Clicking on one icon to switch to "metro" and then clicking on another to switch to "desktop" doesn't seem terribly cumbersome.
Installing Window Blinds and Start8 as a one-off doesn't seem terribly cumbersome, and then you have the UI that Microsoft should have given you in the first place (best ever response to this was taking my laptop in to Microsoft and having a MS person staring over my shoulder and eventually asking "what is that and where can I get it too").
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you need to install third-party software to make the basic OS usable or presentable, then the OS makers have failed miserably. Add-ons come with potential penalties as well. You're never sure how long they'll be supported. They may have performance penalties or security implications, they might cause stability issues (since some of them hook into the guts of the OS via undocumented interfaces), or they might interfere with future updates, etc. People are quick to load up their software platforms of choice (Windows, Firefox, Android, etc) with dozens of third-party add-ons, and then they bitch about how how slow, buggy, bloated, etc that platform is.
The entire point of an OS platform is to enable your clients to essentially ignore the OS and simply get their work done. Windows 8 seemed intent on getting in the users face by introducing radical and unnecessary new paradigms, or by shoving ass-ugly new "modern" visual concepts that look like Windows 3.1 rejects. At the very least, Windows 10 is improving on some of the worst aspects of 8 usability, even if it still looks like crap.
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Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
Getting out of a metro app is a mystery to me. I want to kill the video, not have it running in the background. The only way I can find is to swipe to the metro start screen, click on the desktop icon, go to task manager, find the metro app I want to kill, and end the process.
Why can't they let me exit the metro app directly?
Because Microsoft knows better than you.
This is part of the absurd new mindset at Microsoft. You aren't supposed to exit the application. When the application has been idle for a while the OS (supposedly) will suspend it.
This design makes no sense, but neither do the other 1000 bad design decisions they made with Windows 8/10, so it's not surprising.
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You do realize that this design has already been changed significantly in Win10, right?
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You have the same in Windows 8.1 I'm not sure what your complaint is about.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:4, Informative)
In Windows 8.1, you have the same for applications running in the desktop
False. Metro applications have a X in the top right too. Just drag your mouse up there and watch it appear.
The only difference between Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 is that there are now 3 ways of closing an application instead of 2.
1. Alt+F4
2. Click X in the top right with mouse.
3. Single finger swipe from top to bottom (Metro Only).
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Swipe down from the top edge of the screen. That's your "close button".
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No I don't use 8.1 on a tablet. How do I swipe on my PC?
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You don't. Click the top right with your mouse and your metro application will close.
You get a minimise button too if you want to use the mouse to get back to the metro menu instead of hitting the windows key.
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You don't.
I can swipe with the trackpad on my laptop. It drives me insane because it's, almost invariably, not what I'm trying to do. Usually I'm trying to move the cursor (you know, the reason my laptop has a trackpad....).
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There is an issue with lack of customization, a big one. But that's different than not being able to close a program you are done with. Definitely you should be able to completely kill a program, not just "demand kill" it.
Afaik both android and iOS have ways of doing this that are very simple.
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> Afaik both android and iOS have ways of doing this that are very simple.
It may be simple now, but my first experience with Android, it was really annoying to me that there wasn't an obvious way to actually close an app. Yes, I agree it isn't that hard, but if you don't know how, it is not obvious in any way whatsoever. An "X" up in the corner of the app is simple.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. Android allows you to swipe away a process from the "Running/Recent Tasks" list, which forces a program to shutdown...
"Always forever running, don't worry, when you come back it's there" is not really the best solution for everything... ESPECIALLY, if it continues to play audio...
Now, being able to tell an app like Pandora to keep playing after shutting down is entirely different...
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I don't understand. Windows 8.1 allows you to drag the task to the bottom of the screen to kill it. I don't see this very different to the Android task manager.
Though bringing up the metro task manager is completely non intuitive as it's the same action as tabbing to the previous application.
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Win8 does the same, except the removal gesture is less than obvious - you have to swipe it to the right (as if you were opening it), and then keep swiping to the bottom of the screen.
Of course, with a mouse, it's all much easier since 8.1, since you can just click on the close button in the title bar.
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Indeed. Android allows you to swipe away a process from the "Running/Recent Tasks" list, which forces a program to shutdown...
Windows 8 has this as well.
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Why do you type like this...
Did you learn English... from pull-down menus...
Because you certainly haven't retained... any writing skills... past the first grade...
You learned elipses in the first grade?
Dick.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is, this leaves us feeling like we don't have control of our devices, and consumers with intermediate technical skills (read: almost the entire market for Microsoft's shiny new OS) are very uncomfortable with that feeling. Experts disagree, and will point out that it depends upon what exactly is running. Personally, I would have thought that taking control of the machine away from the user was proven bad when Gateway tanked. Also, isn't that why people hated that damned paperclip?
So, there's an element of frustration with that concept among those who consider having control over our machines to be sacrosanct. Then, in niche problems (like mobile environments), we're shown that if that's the case then there must be exceptions to sacrosanct. Now, here's Microsoft in the middle trying to get it all sorted without crossing desktop users. They are absolutely guaranteed to piss off somebody. Or at least they were with Windows 8.
If they can make us feel like the old brand has returned, start menu and all, on desktop then Windows 10 will be a success, simply put. That OS will fly, and so will MS stock in that case. But marketers, PR firms, and some systems engineers are trying like hell to change our perspective on that. Meanwhile, the exact conversations we COULD be having that would accomplish what they want are practically forbidden in social media. Note that you're downmodded just for saying how you feel as a consumer. Since when is consumer preference taboo? What's next? Hating on people for having a favorite color? Aesthetics count.
It's worth putting all this out there because it has been one gigantic clusterfuck ever since Windows 8's features were revealed. And I will continue to point out that PR firms and fanbois have harmed Microsoft more than help them. I really hope Windows 10 can put this awkward, uncomfortable, frustrating dynamic to bed. The social costs of Windows 8 have undermined its value as an OS, and that's so damn silly that it's a shame I have to type it. In the Army, we called that "Mickey Mouse bullshit." All that should matter is the OS itself, and I'm optimistic about Windows 10 in that regard.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's worth putting all this out there because it has been one gigantic clusterfuck ever since Windows 8's features were revealed. And I will continue to point out that PR firms and fanbois have harmed Microsoft more than help them. I really hope Windows 10 can put this awkward, uncomfortable, frustrating dynamic to bed. The social costs of Windows 8 have undermined its value as an OS, and that's so damn silly that it's a shame I have to type it. In the Army, we called that "Mickey Mouse bullshit." All that should matter is the OS itself, and I'm optimistic about Windows 10 in that regard.
I some time running the Windows 10 Technical preview that was released in January. Although it's an early, nowhere-near-finished- pre-beta version, it shows where Microsoft's thinking is headed. And it's not good.
While they have made some improvements over the clusterfuck that is Windows 8, in most cases they have doubled-down on stupid, keeping the vast majority of bad design decisions that were made with Windows 8. Even bringing back the Start Menu was botched. It still isn't as functional as Windows 7.
And the whole thing is just fucking ugly. More and more people spend an enormous amount of time in front of a computer, not just for social/entertainment purposes but for work as well. Aesthetics matter and Windows 8/10 fail horribly. This picture sums it all up perfectly:
http://i.imgur.com/iiXQRtN.jpg [imgur.com]
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Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem 1: Multiple instances of the same program.
In the past, this was simple. Go to it in the start menu and click it again. Now, I have to look up a new set of key-click combinations or run a new search in the start screen every time I want multiple instances of the same program. This forces me into a mobile interface on desktop, and lowers my productivity by making me stop and relearn a set of shortcuts. Sure, they're not that complicated, but people don't just sit around memorizing things just for the fun of it, and the fact that we need to means a downgrade in usability and productivity.
(https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/e9fd8b8a-bc5f-48a8-9e18-6da070c0caec/how-to-run-multiple-instances-of-the-same-application-from-the-metro-interface?forum=w8itproappcompat)
Problem 2: The start screen forces me into a mobile interface.
Simplistic, blocky interfaces aren't so much attractive on mobile and touch screen devices as they're necessary. We tolerate them because they make the device easier to use. However, that does not automatically mean that such interfaces are aesthetically pleasing nor the most useful. The entire point of such interfaces is to overcome the limitations of a touch screen interface, so by forcing desktop users to use that kind of interface is in general a downgrade in usability and productivity.
Problem 3: Windows 8 sends to Microsoft everything we locally search.
The problem with this isn't a matter of privacy paranoia, but rather economics. ISPs today are setting artificial resource limitations to price gouge for profit. That is, data caps. When we exceed these caps, we pay. This isn't a big deal for those who don't stream anything, don't update anything, and don't download any new programs or tools. Now, on top of this, we have an OS that uses bandwidth every time we need to find a program we haven't pinned. Microsoft is effectively spending our money for us. It's inconsiderate.
Problem 4: Functionality isn't everything.
Innovation has revolved around the concept of making things easier to do. If you have two devices that do the same thing but one is easier to use, which will you prefer? So, in general, making things harder to do and pushing everybody to learn something new and more complicated does not innovate. It does exactly the opposite. Furthermore, see item 2 again. The aesthetics of the operating system are sacrificed at the same time, which means on desktop it's all a gigantic step backward.
Problem 5: The new paradigm has a negative impact on consumer perceptions.
The absolute best way for Microsoft to introduce the changes we've seen with Windows 8 would have been to make them optional at the moment of installation. We could then have chosen the interface that best suits our device. Maybe by changing Windows components and features, we could have even made changes later, say, if we bought a touch screen. Instead, Microsoft forced these changed on every desktop user with reason to upgrade and not only have they not cared what any of us think, but they've hired public relations firms to aggressively treat us like shit for having our own opinions. Everything about the first step of this transition has been inconsiderate and disrespectful.
Problem 6: Nothing about the new Windows features is necessary.
I've used Windows 8 for about a year and a half. At one point, my metro apps quick working, and Windows advised me to refresh my PC from installation disc. That would have then involved time sacrificed to updates and reconfiguration. I didn't do it. I still haven't. And there is nothing at all about metro
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:5, Insightful)
She wouldn't, but suppose my ol' lady goes out and gets the stereotypical trashy-street-walker-looking trailer park hoochie mama outfit. Of course, it would appall me, and I'd be entitled to that opinion, right? It's her clothes, her body they're being put on, her choice. It would annoy me, but it wouldn't necessarily be a relationship-killer unless she started trying wearing it to functions where it's *really* inappropriate.
However, suppose she paid some group of people to follow me everywhere and interrupt conversations or say rude things any time I mentioned the word "clothes" without involving some kind of glowing praise for the hoochie mama outfit. That would be a relationship-killer, right? That's basically what Microsoft has done, and the mobile interface is the hoochie mama outfit.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem 1: Multiple instances of the same program.
This was answered in the link that you provided [microsoft.com]. Right click on the task bar icon and open a new instance of the application (or access the jump list of recently used files). It works for Windows 7 and 8.
Problem 2: The start screen forces me into a mobile interface.
Yeah, I hate the Metro interface too. But this is the high profile change that they made to Windows 10, so it is already a solved problem.
Problem 3: Windows 8 sends to Microsoft everything we locally search.
This is a configurable option [howtogeek.com] in Windows 8.1, so that isn't a problem.
Problem 4: Functionality isn't everything.
It will be interesting how many of Windows 8's less intuitive user interface features will still be around in the final version of Windows 10. My most hated modern user interface idea is the removal of UI hints to simplify the screen. You end up having to try clicking and swiping everything just to see if it does something. Having to move the mouse to particular corners of the screen is a crap idea too
Problem 5: The new paradigm has a negative impact on consumer perceptions.
The absolute best way for Microsoft to introduce the changes we've seen with Windows 8 would have been to make them optional at the moment of installation. We could then have chosen the interface that best suits our device.
Well that is what they have done now. I read a great article once on the though process that went on behind the scenes about the new interface. I wish I could find it again, because it put it all into perspective. I will still always hate the Metro interface and the loss of functionality that it brings, but I have been surprised at the change of heart about it that the staff at my company have had about it. They went from hating it to acceptance (and even one who loves it).
Problem 6: Nothing about the new Windows features is necessary.
That gets said about every version of Windows. XP was just a face-lift on 2000. Vista was just XP run as a limited user. Windows 7 was just Vista, which, for some reason, the people who hated Vista decided that they loved. The changes in each version are more noticeable when moving back to an old version. You suddenly realise how many of the new features you use when they suddenly disappear.
Now I write that though (on my Windows 7 computer), I can't think of any examples of things that I miss from Win8 right now.
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A lot of those shortcuts were also on the Windows 7 start menu (unless you turned them off). I don't have a Windows 8.1 system in front of me, but I don't recall anything on it that could not be pinned to the Start Menu. Perhaps some of the direct links into the Control Panel, but that could be done with a bit of fiddling.
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I agree with some of what you said. But a few things:
Problem 3: Windows 8 sends to Microsoft everything we locally search.
You're really stretching with this complaint. The data usage of this is incredibly marginal. Also windows allows you to set network interfaces as metered connections. I have heard (though not tried in practice) that this will cause the search not to happen. But don't quote me on this. I've certainly seen it do other things like disable windows update in this scenario.
Problem 6: Nothing about the new Windows features is necessary
This I disagree with. Ok Metro is definitely not the answer. It's an ugly clusterfuck of
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The problem with your counterargument to Problem 3 is th
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No, they should not add an off switch.
They should add an on switch. The default state shouldn't be "spend my money for me on something that mostly benefits you and not me."
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I understand your argument, but I think we as the users have lost this battle a long time ago.
If I walk away right now:
Slashdot will refresh every few minutes.
Google updater will look online.
Windows update will look online.
Outlook will autofetch my emails.
Lync will use data for its keep alive connection to the server even if someone doesn't talk to me.
Macafee will look for new definitions every hour or so (corporate laptop)
Skype is using data for its keep alive connection.
And all of that is just the things
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Windows 8 takes its attitude regarding bandwidth *after* ISPs started their fraudulent price rigging. Where the other software is concerned, there's at least a
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99% of the time when my Android phone runs out of battery, it's because some program using GPS was left running.
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I don't buy it.
Opening a really really big program like Photoshop takes mere seconds. I don't think there's a saving there vs the resulting paging in and out of memory caused by having all these programs constantly running.
Heck on Android people download programs specifically to identify other running programs and kill them to save battery life. The more that is running the more chance you have of a blocking applications preventing the processor from sleeping.
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People also download ram defragmenters.
Seriously, what people do is not always the most wise course. On Android most apps that are not full screen are sleeping. They only use RAM and RAM consumes the same amount of power whether it's full or empty. Most don't use CPU, except for those cases where the programmer explicitly requests it to continue (think a music player or Twilight (no connection to bad books)). These apps have a legitimate use for it.
Not killing apps improves battery life because then the ap
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Personally, I would have thought that taking control of the machine away from the user was proven bad when Gateway tanked.
The continued existence of the video game console market, as opposed to gaming PCs in living-room-friendly cases, is somewhat of a counterpoint to this.
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1. Give us the choice to Fuck Metro Off - this seems to be fixed here 2. Give us the start button back - fixed in 8.1 3. When you click on start give us a partial screen menu instead of the full screen one. Apparently fixed in Win10 So if the Metro fuckup is able
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:4, Insightful)
4. Don't forget the latency and legacy directx issues caused by the always-on dwm. There are kludgy work arounds like using application compatibility toolkit to turn on certain shims, but even those break once multiple monitors are enabled. The only way to enable multiple monitors and have these applications work is to kill the dwm entirely, which is a massive kludge that breaks things like task manager and the login screen.
5. The new interface doesn't allow adjusting window size attributes. It won't even let you set the title text to a light color when the bar is a dark one. Also the current theme is terrible. I'd like the classic win2k look back (with its explorer because of its capabilities, and configuration flexibility). I realize some find that ugly too, but the current design is worse than that.
As far as I know, these were not addressed in the current windows 10 builds.
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Loading apps drains the battery more and wears out memory faster in mobile devices than just leaving them running. Even on an Android device, everything you do is kept running until you manually kill it, and some things just immediately restart. So, there's a sound technical reason for it.
The problem is, this leaves us feeling like we don't have control of our devices, and consumers with intermediate technical skills (read: almost the entire market for Microsoft's shiny new OS) are very uncomfortable with that feeling. Experts disagree, and will point out that it depends upon what exactly is running. Personally, I would have thought that taking control of the machine away from the user was proven bad when Gateway tanked. Also, isn't that why people hated that damned paperclip?.
The problem here is that the OS simply can't know what applications I *want* to have running in the background. Common scenario during multitasking on an Android device, for instance, is having music and navigation apps running in the background. On devices with =1GB of RAM, Android will often decide to kill the navigation app when you switch to the music app to change a track, or kill the music app when you're trying to edit a route in the navigation app. This drives me nuts on a daily basis, and devices w
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The first problem is that application usage statistics is screwed from both ends by software patents to the point that nobody wants to touch it. So, yay innovation-killing shitpolicy once again! The other problem is that carriers and manufacturers like to customize Android with their custom
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Drag from the top of the full screen metro app down to the bottom, and it kills the app. 8.1 though added an X to kill apps though.
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Alt-F4.
Or drag mouse to top right and click the X which appears.
Or on a tablet drag finger from the top of the screen to the bottom and let go.
2/3rds of that is literally what we've been doing for 20 years now.
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In windows 10 you click the x on the top right to exit it. They learned.
In windows 8.1 you swipe from the top, hold for 1 second, and then drag the app to the bottom of the screen. It's silly and convoluted but less convoluted than your method.
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Err in Windows 8.1 you click the x on the top right to exit it too.... or am I missing something.
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If you're on a non-tablet (and thus have a keyboard) you can kill any metro app with alt-f4.
Re:I must be missing something. (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you saying that the more advanced the Windows UI, the more power users should and will use the keyboard? The entire GUI premise is flawed if the strategy is to revert to keyboard shortcuts.
I think Microsoft's introduction of Windows 8 and the Office Ribbon have been so badly bungled that many power users have simply reverted to keyboard shortcuts. However, as a strategy, I don't think it is a good idea. Why even have the mouse when we can all go back to command line?
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Why even have the mouse when we can all go back to command line?
You're missing the point. You now have the full list of options:
alt+f4 still works
clicking in the top right corner x still works.
have no mouse and keyboard? Well use the drag down to kill function.
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I expressed no opinion. I replied with a solution to the commentor's issue. Some of us really are just here to help, and use computers every day.
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With all the search boxes plastered all over to compensate for broken design, we might as well go back to a shell as the default interface.
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Does swiping down drom the top of the screen no longer work? That's the way to do it in Win8.x...
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How about offering a desktop manager like in ala Linux?
I feel the reason they don't want to offer such customizable things is because they want you used to this new tablet/phone way of doing things. They want you to use a store like Android/Itunes to buy apps, then they can also push their terrible Music and Video service like they do on the Xbox.
Otherwise known as... (Score:2, Funny)
Long time... (Score:5, Insightful)
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You'd think. But you'd be wrong. Digg did it. Firefox did it. GNOME did it. Even Slashdot damn near did it. UI is about elegant discoverable interfaces between user and computer, and if this means expensive testing and actually listening to feedback that
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I think one of the problems from management's perspective is that some of these platforms are now incredibly mature. If version + 1 looks and works exactly like version, then it's harder to make the case that the new product is worthy of purchase. That is, you'd actually have to produce real innovation. That's hard to do in a platform like Windows, where your greatest assets are mass market penetration and boring old backwards compatibility with the ancient Win32 API.
UX is a perceived shortcut. It's a f
Re:Long time... (Score:4, Informative)
I can't believe it took them TWO FULL VERSIONS to realize they needed the feature. This should have been implemented back in Windows 8, or 9 at least...
Windows 10 IS Windows 9.
Start Menu (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Start Menu (Score:4, Insightful)
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I find it funny how typing in the start menu is something people are talking about now as if it's a new thing. Someone even showed me how "amazing" the auto search was in Windows 8.1
I blew his mind when I showed him Windows Vista does the same thing.
The end of an era. (Score:2)
It means I will no longer have the option of using either Linux or Windows for my desktop computers. When one leaves the desktop in favor of a platform I find cumbersome, overpriced and unnecessary I am left with only one choice. Unfortunately this choice seems to be hung up on tablets and mobile systems as well. Luckally it at least have multiple flavours and some are still promising to be true to the desktop.
I am just hoping I can find proper software to continue my work wi
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Good thing gnome 3 wasnt based on webs or anything. Waiting on flat low color elements next
Switching is not integration (Score:2)
I understand the logic of having apps run in full screen for small tablets by default. But this does not justify having two kinds of apps, none of which run in both modes. Either it's a classic desktop app without multitouch/orientation switch support, or a metro app that can not open multiple windows (can it even be tiled with other apps these days?).
What Microsoft should have done in Windows 8 is provide a framework for creating tablet-friendly apps which are ALSO usable desktop apps without any handicaps
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The apps themselves are not the only issue. This does need OS integration despite how much people say the contrary. The windows interface is borderline useless without a mouse and keyboard which is exactly why they did what they did.
Yes the interface switching is clunky as all hell but the tablet styles and gestures make a lot of sense when you disconnect the keyboard and mouse. It is almost impossible to resize and move a window in tablet mode, it's hard enough to hit the tiny start button, and even harder
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But this does not justify having two kinds of apps, none of which run in both modes. Either it's a classic desktop app without multitouch/orientation switch support, or a metro app that can not open multiple windows (can it even be tiled with other apps these days?).
The Modern UI apps will run inside resizeable windows in the desktop mode. You are right though that Modern apps cannot open multiple windows.
I know I'm gonna catch a lot of crap for this... (Score:2)
...but I'm finding Win 8 as a switch-hit tablet/sorta-netbook is working pretty well for me. I've been using both Windows and various Linux desktop distros for decades now, waiting for someone to put together an OS that would alternatively do the tablet thing, then do desktop with a BT keyboard and mouse. Ubuntu seems to be heading there, but Win 8 actually does a passable job in both modes. I'm running it on a cheapie WinBook from Microcenter with 2GB RAM and 32GB flash as C:. And then, to add insult t
Great feature! (Score:3)
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You're not talking about the OS, you're talking about the shell.
What do you do when you plug your tablet in a docking station and start using it with multiple displays, a keyboard and a mouse?
Get frustrated that you're stuck with a touch oriented interface, or have an OS that can change the behaviour of it's shell?
Re:What What? (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you do when you plug your tablet in a docking station and start using it with multiple displays, a keyboard and a mouse?
I have no idea. In probably 4-5 years of owning tablet-style devices, I have never once connected them to any external peripherals like that, nor wanted to.
Tablets are for convenient data access and occasional very light data entry. For the stuff that needs multiple displays and serious input devices, I have other tools that are much, much better at it than any tablet ever produced.
In other words, my use cases (and going by the Internet commentary, almost everyone else's use cases too) are completely different for tablets and real PCs. It makes absolutely no sense to run the same style of operating system on both of them -- not just the shell, but the file system, the process model, the security model, connectivity...
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Well for the last 4-5 years I haven't owned a tablet. :) A phone can do everything a tablet can do, albeit on a tiny screen such as "convenient data access and occasional very light data entry".
What constitutes a "real PC" these days? Laptops are, for many, a desktop replacement. Touchscreens are becoming the norm because it's a 'value-add' that adds little to the purchase price. If you embed the CPU in the screen instead of the keyboard, you have the option of detaching the keyboard altogether.
Should one d
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What constitutes a "real PC" these days? Laptops are, for many, a desktop replacement.
True enough, but how much of that is because they're better at doing the job, and how much is just convenience for people making the purchasing decision?
If you actually do work away from your desk a significant amount of the time, or use your computer in different places around the home, a laptop offers a genuine advantage. And if you have an organisation where many/most of your staff are in that category, consistency among your users might be a genuine advantage for purchasing and technical support purpose
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What's wrong with having one device with the capability of satisfying both use cases?
I don't have one phone for text messages and another for phone calls and yet another for light web browsing when I'm not at a computer despite there being a compromises - on-screen keyboard for text messaging because web browsing requires larger screen - bigger device to hold up to my head for making phone calls.
If a tablet sized device can provide the power to perform desktop activities, why restrict it with software?
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What's wrong with having one device with the capability of satisfying both use cases?
Nothing, as long as it satisfies both use cases as well as two dedicated devices would, or at least close enough not to make any meaningful difference.
This is not what I saw with Windows 8, however. Instead, what you got was a least common denominator. Reducing desktop workstation and tablet to a least common denominator does to the workstation roughly what reducing gaming console and power-gamer PC to a least common denominator does to the power-gamer PC. That is, it's such a poor substitute in both power
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So don't you think they're introducing this mode switch so you can switch between two interfaces, instead of trying to make one interface fit both use cases?
Does 2012 Mark the End of the Netbook? (Score:2)
In other words, my use cases (and going by the Internet commentary, almost everyone else's use cases too) are completely different for tablets and real PCs. It makes absolutely no sense to run the same style of operating system on both of them
After the demise of 10 inch laptops [slashdot.org], fans of that form factor have had to make do with things like Surface Pro and Transformer Book, which are Windows tablets with keyboards.
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I wouldn't call it "make do".
I would call it a very welcome replacement.
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Tablet in the meeting room, docked at desk to dual 24" monitors, keyboard and mouse giving 3 full HD desktops. This is the MS vision, if your use case doesn't suit, that doesn't mean most of the corporate world doesn't.
Given that Windows 8 has been a Vista-scale catatrophe for Microsoft, I think by now it's safe to say overall the corporate world doesn't buy into that vision either.
Again, the things these devices are useful for in meetings are not necessarily the same things they are useful for when someone is working alone at a desk. So far, it appears that trying to fit the same modes of operation into both boxes just results in a mediocre compromise that isn't very good at either set of tasks.
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What do you do when you plug your tablet in a docking station and start using it with multiple displays, a keyboard and a mouse?
I have no idea. In probably 4-5 years of owning tablet-style devices, I have never once connected them to any external peripherals like that, nor wanted to.
Tablets are for convenient data access and occasional very light data entry. For the stuff that needs multiple displays and serious input devices, I have other tools that are much, much better at it than any tablet ever produced.
In other words, my use cases (and going by the Internet commentary, almost everyone else's use cases too) are completely different for tablets and real PCs. It makes absolutely no sense to run the same style of operating system on both of them -- not just the shell, but the file system, the process model, the security model, connectivity...
I thought the same. Until I actually bought one. Ignore the word docking station, just look at the typecover for the Surface to see what the GP really is talking about. The switch from consumption device to production device is seamless.
I bought a Surface Pro. I've not used my laptop or my tablet since. The switch between tablet mode and desktop mode is a little rusty but was greatly improved in windows 8.1 and I have high hopes for windows 10. I don't miss having a "consumption" device (and whoever had tha
Re:What What? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well I agree with GP's assertion that a 4" phone shouldn't have the same interface as a 2x21" desktop. As such one of my 'computers' runs Firefox OS and the other KDE atop debian.
But I don't have a tablet in my life. A 9" phone, running iOS or Android, that doesn't make phone calls, no thanks! What would convince me to buy a tablet would be one that comes with a fancy stand (we used to call it a docking station back in the day) that allows me to plug in all my existing peripherals and transform into a workstation OS.
MS share that vision. KDE share that vision via plasma (though their Vivaldi tablet didn't make it to market).
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Surface Pro 3.
I haven't used the docking station personally and the single USB port is limiting without it, but I know someone who's Pro 3 is their primary computer docking station, 4k display, keyboard, mouse and all. On the road it's a tablet with a cover that folds into a convenient laptop, at home it's a replacement for the box under the desk and you'd be none the wiser that he is using it unless you look in his bank account. Convenience costs money.
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There will be this cool new interface. Maybe called "Viewpoints". You will be able to open several different apps at the same time and see them in different parts of the screen. Special technology will let you resize them, but without any API for programmers to know how big the "Viewpoints" are. You will be able to move them about, even close them. Who knows there might even be an "ActionBar" at the bottom so you can see what Viewpoints are open.
Progress in computer science is mainly achieved by findi
Re:What about privacy (Score:5, Informative)
As a technical preview with a primary goal of soliciting feedback from its user, I'd say quite a bit.
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You'd best wait till the final version is released then.
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Winbook - enough for Windows 10? (Score:2)
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Also, what I've been told - in 10, the Windows Phone OS and Windows will both be identical (aside from the CPU level binary differences), and the store will have common apps for both. For instance, right now, you can download Yelp! on Windows Phone, but not from an Atom based tablet. In 10, any app that's there on the phone will be there for the tablet, and vice versa. I'm assuming that apps that require cellular connections (like calling apps) might be an exception.
This is certainly good news, since