Powdered Alcohol Banned In Six States 421
HughPickens.com writes Rachel Abrams reports at the NYT that six states have passed legislation to ban Palcohol, a freeze-dried, powdered alcohol developed by Mark Phillips who he says was inspired by a love of hiking but a distaste for carrying bottles of adult beverages uphill. "When I hike, kayak, backpack or whatever, I like to have a drink when I reach my destination. And carrying liquid alcohol and mixers to make a margarita for instance was totally impractical," says Phillips, who hopes to have Palcohol on store shelves by the summer. One packet of Palcohol equals one shot with each packet weighing 1 ounce and turning into liquid when mixed with 6 ounces of water. Phillips has vigorously defended his product, called Palcohol, saying it is no more dangerous than the liquid version sold in liquor stores and plans to release five flavors: vodka, rum, cosmopolitan, powderita (which is like a margarita) and lemon drop.
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink. "It's very easy to put a couple packets into a glass and have super-concentrated alcohol," says Frank Lovecchio. Amy George, a spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said MADD did not typically take a stand on the dangers of specific alcohol products, but MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children. Phillips dismisses concerns saying that they don't make sense if you think it through. "People unfortunately use alcohol irresponsibly. But I don't see any movement to ban liquid alcohol. You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink. "It's very easy to put a couple packets into a glass and have super-concentrated alcohol," says Frank Lovecchio. Amy George, a spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said MADD did not typically take a stand on the dangers of specific alcohol products, but MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children. Phillips dismisses concerns saying that they don't make sense if you think it through. "People unfortunately use alcohol irresponsibly. But I don't see any movement to ban liquid alcohol. You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
The states... (Score:5, Informative)
The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary.
Re:The states... (Score:4, Funny)
"The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary."
Why state the obvious?
Re:The states... (Score:5, Funny)
"The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary."
Why state the obvious?
Why state the states are obviously unstated?
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Why state the states are obviously unstated?
Well stated.
Actually, I don't think Alaska is at all obvious, with its relative "frontier" attitude.
Re:The states... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I don't think Alaska is at all obvious, with its relative "frontier" attitude.
Alaska actually has the most restrictive alcohol purchase and consumption laws in the US outside certain areas of the Deep South. There are 96 communities in Alaska that prohibit sale of alcohol, and 34 of those even ban its possession [thenorthernlight.org]. This is because in much of Alaska, there is f--k all to do except drink, and alcohol abuse is endemic enough already, even without the legal restrictions. The state even has a law, which is actually enforced [go.com] that makes it a crime to be drunk in a bar. (Yeah, I know.) So while you might think that Alaska would be a "gubmint keep your hands off my guns and booze" state, it turns out to just be a "hands off my guns" state.
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Wait a minute...Louisiana? The state that has drive-through daiquiri bars [onesixtyk.com] ?
Driving with a Big-Gulp sized Hurricane in your lap (no straw of course, *wink* *wink*), that's OK, but powdered alcohol is irresponsible?
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The Big-Gulp sized Hurricane Retailers association has a very strong political presence in Louisiana, and do not like the idea of competition for cheap over-sweetened high alcohol beverages.
Maybe...
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Re:The states... (Score:5, Informative)
Wait a minute...Louisiana? The state that has drive-through daiquiri bars [onesixtyk.com] ?
Driving with a Big-Gulp sized Hurricane in your lap (no straw of course, *wink* *wink*), that's OK, but powdered alcohol is irresponsible?
Alaska is still trying to figure out how this ever got on the voting ballot.
Most of them were stoned out of their mind and kept thinking how this shit would be really good sprinkled on Taco Bell right about now...
Don't give us any ideas.
The big issue is Alaska is dry / damp towns [state.ak.us]. There are a number of Native American villages that ban alcohol or limit it very rigorously. Alcoholism is an enormous issue for Native Americans (and, truth be told, the rest of us) and the smaller villages have adopted this form of control. Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in. Of course, this is a fool's errand in a sense - you can rarely stop a social problem using prohibition, but the communities feel that it helps.
The rest of us are too stoned and confused to notice much (Where'd the snow go?).
Re:The states... (Score:4, Insightful)
Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in.
True of both powdered and liquid forms.
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Little tiny one ounce packets would be ridiculously easy to smuggle in.
True of both powdered and liquid forms.
Sounds like powered alcohol has greater volume than liquid alcohol, so it's even harder to smuggle:
http://www.palcohol.com/ [palcohol.com]
The volume of a shot of powdered alcohol is 4X greater than the volume of a shot of liquid alcohol so liquid alcohol is much easier to conceal.
Sure, you could put the powder into a canister labeled "flour" and smuggle it in that way, but you could also put everclear alcohol into a bottle labeled "water".
Re:The states... (Score:5, Funny)
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You people are hilarious.
Government control on [arbitrary level] == TYRANNY
Government control on [slightly lower arbitrary level] == THE WAY IT IS AND WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE
Just accept that some things should be dealt with collectively, regardless of the exact level.
It is always a valid discussion at what level certain executive and legislative decisions should be made, but don't pretend that shifting them a level up or down changes anything meaningful in the appraisal of 'small ~' versus 'big government'.
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Firstly: Nice reasoning there, asshole. Progressives championed the Prohibition. Whoopty-fucking-doo. That completely and definitively proves that 'small government' Conservatives don't want to regulate more than they claim. Because fuck logic.
(It's called a 'tu quoque', a fallacy most commonly committed on school playgrounds)
I'll explain it to you: even if 'Progressives' were or are the evilest, nastiest scum-sucking Nazi bastards that have ever existed, that says nothing about conservative people.
Let me m
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Pepper (Score:2)
"They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
Oh, crap, you know they're going to try now...
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Still better than sniffing cat urine.
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Snort? The most effective way to get your kick is to do your black pepper in enema or rectal suppository form.
Yes, kids, DO try this at home!
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Meaning, certain dumb people will try snorting, and certain other dumb people will try banning.
Not Freeze Dried! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not Freeze Dried! (Score:4, Informative)
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Here's a thought: anyone know a good way to extract ammonia from ethanol? Or would it degas on its own? Because if so one could use the reaction:
NH2COOC2H5 (ethyl carbamate) + H2O (water) -> CH3CH2OH (ethanol) + NH3 (ammonia) + CO2 (carbon dioxide)
If you can meet that spec then this seems to meet all requirements:
1) Ethyl carbamate is a solid crystalline powder at normal conditions. It doesn't melt until 46C.
2) While it's a "suspected carcinogen", it's already found normally in alcoholic beverages, so if
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Oh hey, the reaction is endothermic: it'll generate chilled alcohol for you! Even better :)
Hmm, wonder if it needs a catalyst...
One Dimension (Score:3)
but since when does anyone measure density in mass/length units?
That's clear evidence of one dimensional thinking. ;-)
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What's really behind this hue and cry? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder how much of this objection has nothing to do with the vasty overstated risks but instead is of a commercial nature. Alcoholic beverages are extremely expensive in a lot of places (stadiums, bars, restaurants, events) and sneaking your own in is inconvenient or impossible.
I woner if the real opponents of this aren't people who make money charging $10 for cocktails to captive audiences. How much money do they stand to lose when people start bringing a half-dozen packets to the big game?
How is the drinking control regime threatened when you can't restrict alcohol because of its bulk and liquid nature?
Some idiots will no doubt overconsume it, but they are probably the same idiots that do it now.
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While this may be an issue, I'm not sure it's a significant one.
If you can afford to blow a couple hundred bucks for a seat in the stadium, I doubt an extra twenty or so for booze is going to be a show-stopper.
Where I see an issue is minors, who can't buy the overpriced booze at the show/conc
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That said commercial interests are often combined intricately with religious desires to dictate how people live. In many states alcohol sales are overly regulated to insure that states and the corrupt religious organization that engage with them in defrauding the public of funds through the regula
For hiking/camping? Doubt it. (Score:2)
Instead of carrying seven ounces for one unit of alcohol why not just bring grain alcohol and get 14 units for the same weight?
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Better weight ratio but it's awkward to haul around. It seems to leak easier than water (made obvious by that alcohol smell it gets on stuff ;) ), and you have to haul around bulky partly-empty containers.
I've done it before, but it'd be nice to have a powder. That said, your point is spot on - you get a lot of bang for your weight-buck with concentrated liquid alcohol, not so much with this adsorbed stuff.
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Package 80 proof in juice box bags. Sell it at outdoor supply stores. Not your responsibility if people smuggle it into games/movies/the Opera/schools.
I knew kids who injected Vodka into oranges to eat at lunch. Couldn't really get a buzz that way. More about getting away with something.
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Powdered alcohol is stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone that thinks this stuff makes any sense at all is merely ignorant.
Here is the thing, alcohol is a liquid. The most compact state for alcohol to be in is a liquid. The only way to have powdered alcohol without adding a lot of filler to it that will make it take up MORE space and more weight would be to freeze it and then smash up the frozen alcohol into a powder and then keep that at freezing temperatures.
Sound practical? Me neither.
What they're obviously doing is adding a chemical, probably a sugar of some description, and allowing that substance to absorb the alcohol.
while you CAN do that, why would you want to do that? It will take up MORE space and weigh MORE per unit of weight or volume.
So what the fuck is the point? People keep talking about powdered alcohol like people are going to be able to compress 2 liter vodka bottles into little pouches where you just add water and you get a strong alcoholic drink.
You won't though... unless you have something like 10 liters of powder to dissolve in the water.
the amount of alcohol you'll actually be able to store in any sugar crystal going to be miniscule. And sugar molecules are often quite large... so you're talking about a lot of mass invested into containing a very small amount of alcohol. Why?
Get yourself some 200 proof booze, put it in a flask, and if you want drink, then mix that with some amount of water because you really don't want to drink 200 proof booze straight unless you're completely crazy.
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lighten up, Francis. The product is a compact way to carry a cocktail, it takes less space than the cocktail. There are other concentrated cocktail mixes at your local liquor store, yes?
So settle down, or we'll have to send a jungle ranger to shoot you in the butt with a tranq dart.
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Have you ever hiked long distances with a bottle of vodka? I have. It's not the vodka that's the PITA, it's the bottle.
While I'm still not too keen on this product, let's not pretend that there's no reasons for preferring a powder to liquids even at the cost of some disadvantages.
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Seriously?
Go to REI, get yourself a flexible water bag... those camel packs or whatever. And then put your booze in that.
There clearly isn't enough rat poison in the municipal water system...
You're saying you have to use the liquor store bottle?
I think I'm having a stroke.... I smell toast... yep... and I'm blind in one eye now. Thanks.
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1. Alcohol leaks easier than water. At least that's been my experience with it.
2. Flexible water bottles are not rated for everclear. Even if it didn't physically and visibly dissolve the seals in front of you, I'd still have concerns over it leaching chemicals out of the plastic. Moreso than with a rigid bottle, as flexible plastics generally contain plasticizers, many of which have been linked to a variety of health issues. Some flexible water containers are made of PVC, which has very bad ethanol compati
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First off, what the heck is going wrong in your life that makes you feel the need to tell strangers "Suck it" and "you alcoholiic piece of shit" when talking about plastics? Even without knowing what it is, I honestly feel sorry and am worried for you.
Secondly, we're not talking about plastic milk jugs. You mentioned camelback water pouches. They're quite clearly not the same thing - one is highly rigid, the other is highly flexible. Camelback water pouches are not all made the same. Search on the net and y
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Depends. HDPE plastic is okay at the very least. There might be some others.
If you're determined to be obnoxious on the subject, get a flask. I assume a flask can handle high proof alcohol and that was the traditional method for alcoholics to take their hooch with them on the go. I don't see why that doesn't still work.
Also, this just has to be passed around so everyone gets this:
""But a packet of Palcohol is much harder to conceal" than liquid alcohol, the company making Palcohol says on its website. A pac
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Powders are a bit easier to package. That said, there is nothing to prevent our dashing entrepreneur from making Margaritas-in-a-bag, especially for camping or other weight / volume challenged activities. A one ounce square foil pack of Everclear .... Hmmm ..... Food / Drug / Disinfectant / Cleaner / Industrial solvent. This could be more ground breaking than those foil packs of WD-40.
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Actually, might not be a bad idea. Might. Small individually factory-sealed liquid packages would reduce the leak risk that large bottles have due to not requiring a resealable cap. But rather than a leak risk, I'd worry about them being an outright rupture risk... foil is not particularly strong. If you have a foil pack of pop tarts rupture, no big deal, but if you have a foil pack of everclear rupture, it's going to leave some of your stuff wet and smelling like alcohol at best - at worst it'll ruin elec
Re:Powdered alcohol is stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
A bottle of vodka is only ~30% alcohol by weight, so if you can obtain water from another source (pump or purifier) then it is lighter to carry the alcohol powdered (the maltodextrin is mixed with ethanol 1:1 by weight).
The waste in hiking with alcohol is that the water is tied up in vodka instead of being able to be added later. You'd be less likely to have an aneurism over this if you wouldn't just make up numbers and then operate as if they were true.
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"Proof" is a measure of the volume of alcohol in a volume of water, as adjusted for the density of the mixture. Your measure of "filler to alcohol ratio", using whatever units you're pulling out of your ass to express that, has nothing to do with proof. Alcohol proof isn't even a relevant way to describe powdered alcohol.
There are many benefits to using a solid vs a liquid that have nothing to do with weight or volume. Solids are more easily handled than liquids, absorbed ethanol doesn't evaporate as quickl
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Powders have a lot of advantages over liquids when transporting them. Mostly due to the containers required and their reaction to shock, friction and pressure.
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Quote the part of my post where I said it should be banned, please.
Yeah, I never said it should be banned. I would not ban powdered alcohol for two reasons:
1. I don't believe in banning things that people intentionally want in their bodies. I am in favor of legalizing all drugs, disbanding the DEA, and making the D part of the FDA voluntary. Because if I want to take a given perscription drug, why do I need to get the doctor's permission to take it? If I know what is wrong with me, and I know what drug I ne
Politicians need a basic math test (Score:2)
Since the powder is 50% abweight and everclear is 96% abweight, maybe they should ban the latter first?
The only 'advantage' -- and I say it in quotes, since it won't always be an advantage -- is that the powder is dry (ish).
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Gentlemen, start your engines ... (Score:2)
Stay home and drink (Score:2)
The problem is not the weight of the liquid alcohol. The problem is the "hike, backpack or whatever". Anyplace where carrying a fifth is too difficult is not worth going to.
I mean, how good can freeze-dried Ardbeg Uigeadail taste, anyway?
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Next they'll try to ban my 2x10oz 'binoculars'.
Follow the money... (Score:2)
Hmm... the vast majority of the pro-powdered-alcohol comments in the article come from the inventor himself -- who stands to make a lot of money if this is legal everywhere. And the sole, somewhat-pro, comment by an M.D. was pretty lukewarm about the stuff. IMHO, it's a solution looking for a problem. Celebrations in the woods? Pretty lame argument in favor.
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Maybe 'cause the only ones who feel anything but "meh" about it is the inventor and overprotective soccer moms?
Seen on a Hat (Score:2)
DAMM - Drunks Against Mad Mothers
In all seriousness, I'm against irresponsible/dangerous conduct such as drunk or impaired driving. That said, the argument made by the idiot from MADD is reactionary and illogical.
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MADD is the modern day Women's Christian Temperance Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W... [wikipedia.org]
Those are the folks who brought Prohibition to the US, with disastrous consequences. They are just flexing their muscles a bit. After they successful ban powdered alcohol everywhere, they will start going after other fringe alcohol products, like Jello-shots, alco-pops or whatever those damn kids on my lawn are drinking these days.
You don't ban something... (Score:2)
"You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly"
Of course not... unless it's any psychoactive substance or plant that isn't alcohol.
concentrated... (Score:2)
I looked through the FAQs and watched the 15 min video, nothing is being said if it is possible to get 2 or more bags of this stuff and dissolve it in the same amount of water that is normally used for one packet; I believe he said it's about 5 ounces of liquid. Or maybe taking 5 ounces of vodka and dissolving the vodka powder in that. What about swallowing the stuff in powder form? How does the re-absorption of liquid affect your insides or does the various concentrations of alcohol as it goes through a
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"but when has pre-adult portion of our society ever been smart when it comes to drugs?"
how about the post adult? A large segment of the population is not smart their entire life. 2 out of every 5 people you meet has an IQ below 100. and 3 out of 5 have a very poor "common sense" ability.
I have friends that will lick a light socket when drunk, and they are fortune 500 management.
If you're concerned your kids might drink (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk with them. It's YOUR kids. Don't put the burden of raising your kids on society!
Dear Government.... (Score:3)
You can't protect stupid people from acting stupid.
In fact, want to make the world a better place? pass laws that make it impossible for someone stupid, that did something stupid, from using the legal system to sue anyone for their act of stupid.
I personally wish we allowed more of the stupid people to kill themselves, it would help the humanity gene pool immensely.
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"Super strong alcohol" is already legally sold (Score:2)
It's called Everclear.
I'm told Senor Frogs uses it for margaritas. I am unable to tell you whether it is effective, as I have no memories of my attempted scientific tests of its potency.
Life imitating art (Score:3)
Alcoholic candy. (Spoiler alert?) And their version was going to be banned as well.
It's pretty good if you like screwball comedies.
Uhh... (Score:3)
You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
Actually we ban every single psychologically active substance *except* alcohol and tobacco for precisely that reason, those two being the lucky winners because historically the few irresponsible ones misusing other things were typically not the white male property owners responsible for determining whose favorite substance was allowed.
Black Pepper (Score:3)
So... how good is snorting black pepper anyway? I might give that a go tonight.
Mad at MADD (Score:4, Informative)
Back in the 80's, MADD was formed with the purpose of blackmailing all the states into banning alchohol sales to anyone under 21. This of course includes a good 3 years of actual voters, but fuck them, there are more over 21 than under, so we can just outvote them! Yes folks, a portion of the electorate can gang up on another portion and take their rights away. MADD has shown us the way. They accomplished this by getting Congress to threaten to take away their highway funds unless they complied. (BTW: Extra credit goes to Louisiana here for being about the last state to give in).
They got to my state just at the perfect time that the "grandfathering" of the new law assured people 1 year older than me could legally drink for 3 years while I could not. I didn't even like alcohol, but this completely pissed me off. 30 years later, and I still hold a grudge. I hate MADD with the heat of 1000 suns. Anything they are against, I'm automatically for. In 30 years, that rule has held me in good stead.
Re:Astronaut-booze (Score:5, Informative)
It's not actually a bad idea. I've taken alcohol backpacking before, but it's as he mentions, it's somewhat impractical, esp. stopping links and carrying around big containers that will average being half empty, which you can't refill with their target contents on the way like you can with water bottles. And in my experience it usually leaks sooner or later. And since it only makes sense to carry the most concentrated stuff you can buy...yeah.
Concentrated alcohol is great stuff to be with - and not just for "getting drunk in the woods". Or even the social aspect - being out in the middle of nowhere with alcohol and meeting up with other travelers can make you pretty popular ;) But it's also 7 calories per gram - only fat is higher, at 9, while carbs and proteins are 4, so it's a nice weight ratio, and it never spoils. It doubles as a disinfectant, both for first aid, and for water. And it can be burned as a stove fuel.
That said, I don't know how many of the benefits would carry over to this powdered variety. The sorbent is going to significantly reduce weight per calorie, you probably can no longer burn it as stove fuel at any dilution, etc.
Re:Astronaut-booze (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Astronaut-booze (Score:5, Funny)
Two thermoses of Everclear!
Re:Astronaut-booze (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't understand why "powdered alcohol" is a better solution than carrying grain alcohol. "Powdered alcohol" isn't alcohol somehow transformed into a powder, but ordinary liquid alcohol absorbed/encapsulated in a carrier powder. So you don't save weight over the equivalent amount of Everclear, you add it.
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if you want to carry this, you end up carrying more weight. you need to carry this, the binder and water too. freeze dried is sort of a lie, that's not really what was done to it.
just carrying margarita mixer powder and vodka would get you easier and with less to carry.
basically the only advantage to palcohol is potentially eating it, because there is no weight saving. it's not like pure spirits get any lighter, they're already pure(everclear). vodka is pure with water and the water you need to carry to hi
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If the legislature of those states who are alarmed just did a little homework, they would realize that this is much ado about nothing.
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If you want to recreate an American beer, yes.
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Do the math: that is stupid! (Score:5, Informative)
source [wikipedia.org]
100g of powder with 25cl (250ml) of water gives you 4.8%. i.e.: the content of a small can of a rather weak beer (by European standard).
Which is 12ml of pure ethanol (less than a 2cl shot). Which weights ~10g. So you need to transport a power 10x as heavy as the ethanol it self. It one of the least efficient form for transporting ethanol. And is therefore COMPLETELY STUPID.
You're better off transporting a small flask vial of pure ethanol. For reference to another item that you would probably be carrying in your backpack: an AA battery is ~8cm^3, so you need the same volume as about 1 and a half battery of pure ethanol to mix your weak-beer-like beverage small can. So the actual volume is negligible.
Whereas if you pack them with ~90mg of extra powdered sugar cyclic polymer, you'll probably need a space around roughly ~130cm^3 - that's about the volume of 1 and half deck of cards that you need to transport as extra sugar in addition to the ethanol itself, just for the small advantage to keep the ethanol trapped in a powder instead of carrying it in a small plastic liquid container.
(it's an estimation. I don't know the exact density of the specific types of powdered cycle of sugars used in palcohol, I'm doing a rough estimation using starch as a starting point).
You can't beat pure ethanol. It's a liquid. That's as densely as you can pack it at room temperature.
That's the form of pure alcohol, once you remove all the water out of it. Dried alcohol isn't a powder. It's still a liquid (just a liquid that contains no molecule of water, only ethanol). It's not like for example salt nor sugar (salt or sugar diluted in water is a liquid. Dry it, remove all the water and you get powder of NaCl or of glucose. Or crystals of them if you do the drying correctly).
Palcohol is, basically, adding huge sugar cyclic polymer to trap it into a powder. It's a huge waste of space. It's not *concentrated* alcohol (as, I presume, all the people who buy into these stupidity are thinking - by analogy of sugar or salt). It's alcohol cut with heavy space consuming sugar.
The only thing is that, getting food-grade ethanol (that is pure ethanol, not degraded ethanol) at pure concentration without a drop of water inside is heavily regulated in most countries (to avoid that people use it to make their own housemade liquor and sell these without a proper license).
The sugar-ethanol mix isn't (well in some countries. Sugar and ethanol happens to be regulated in some countries due to alcopops.) so probably some people think it's a handy way to transport alcool without needing to get the necessary license / paper work for pure ethanol ("I want to transport my booze in space convenient matter, not start a liquor factory! The paper work is over kill !") The problem is that even then, packing a water-diluted ethanol solution (strong vodka, etc.) is still more space efficient than the powdered sugar.
As a way to pack alcohol, this poweder is asinine.
As a novelty item, with the funnily simple factor ("Powdered cocktail! Just add water and instant* mojitos!!! [*- with a much weaker alcohol content than an actual mojito]") yup, maybe. (Works, because most of the other ingredients *can* be packed as solids/powder, and they can complex a bit of ethanol, specially the sugars).
But it's nothing more than an adult themed cousin of Sherbet-powder to be drank after adding water.
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Actually, getting pure 100% alcohol to drink is hard because ethanol attracts water and without some seriously toxic chemicals, or a cost prohibitive vacuum environment, it's basically impossible to distill past 96% purity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E... [wikipedia.org] And even then, you need to protect that 100% pure ethanol from humidity because it will attract water.
Note, I'm not disagreeing with your main point, but I think something like Everclear or Bacardi 151, sold everywhere, and around 75% ethanol, is proba
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"It one of the least efficient form for transporting ethanol. "
But still more efficient that carrying the potable form which multiplies the mass by another 2.5x.
I don't think you understood what was meant by "efficient". Greater mass (the ethanol plus the absorbent material) makes it a less efficient method of transporting ethanol. This product does not produce a drink nearly as strong as regular 80-proof, 40% liquor. It's not even close. I'd carry some 151 (75.5% alcohol) and be much better off. There are lightweight non-glass containers that would be more than suitable.
Re:Do you know how easy it is to make that stuff? (Score:4, Informative)
If they wanna ban it, let 'em
You can make it yourself
People intent on banning this stuff have forgotten one caveat: it tastes fairly bad, even when you pollute it with sugar.
A good bottle of whiskey/rum/vodka actually follow a process that gives them a refined and palatable flavor.
Grain in any form, diluted or not, just tastes like rubbing alcohol every time.
Although I hike and enjoy some alcohol after a climb, I will still carry a flask and make myself joyful the old fashioned and refreshing way.
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Vodka is just pure alcohol with pure water.
Making whiskey is art, making vodka is science. Science scales, art doesn't. That is why Vodka just doesn't get better after about $12/750. If you ever spent $50 on a bottle of Vodka (and it didn't get you laid) you are a chump.
Just carry 190 proof and thin it down to Vodka when you get where you are going. Assuming you carry a water filter. If you are carrying in all your water then don't bother, just carry 80 proof.
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Yeah, I don't get this "they'll use it to make super-strong alcohol" stuff. Powdered alcohol is alcohol soaked up into a sorbent. At least in classic formations, the sorbent significantly outweighs the alcohol. If you're adding it to anything that one would classify as "liquor", you'll be maintaining or decreasing the alcohol content; it could only hike the content of things like beer and to a lesser extent wine. The same way you'd hike the contents by, you know, mixing in a stronger alcohol if it was liqui
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Re:Lefty-totalitarian banning idiots should be ban (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you didn't see the states involved:
Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Only ONE of those states "might" be considered anything "lefty" The other 5 are rather conservative. So if anything it is "righty-totalitarian".
Re:Lefty-totalitarian banning idiots should be ban (Score:5, Insightful)
It's getting hard to say with prohibition groups these days (MADD is simply a "ban all alcohol" group). Such groups used to find common cause with the right, and perhaps still do, but that spirit is aging out of the right with the Boomers, and increasingly it's the left on a jihad to "control all the things!" People Against Fun are increasing flipping left now. From banning video games to banning frat parties, it's a left thing now, and the "yes means yes" laws are one step away from outlawing premarital sex (and the right has been laughing quietly at that irony).
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Keep in mind that liberal means freedom. The liberal left which is the flavor we have in the good ol' USA (no marxists here) has traditionally been on the side of more freedom, while the right has traditionally been against it.
There are exceptions, but people on the right who like freedom are called libertarians and they are generally not welcome in the GOP which is driven by totalitarian social conservatives and pro-industry members of congress who love nothing more than providing subsidies and protections
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Which is why 'classical liberal' == 'libertarian'.
Modern american 'liberals' are just 'authoritarian left'. The words meaning has been flipped.
'Progressive' == reactionary return to 1930s politics.
Re:Lefty-totalitarian banning idiots should be ban (Score:5, Insightful)
You can measure how authoritarian a government is by the % of GDP they spend/waste. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Also gun control proves you wrong on the face of your claim.
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And trying to impose ban on everything they don't like is against the Constitution.
Well, not this one.
21st Amendment, Section 2:
"Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited."
Pretty much implicitly states that States can have laws regarding intoxicating liquors. Which this clearly is, and no, you can't wank around it by claiming it is merely a powder.
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Kids aren't allowed to buy alcohol, and if the worry is about kids getting into the stuff at home after the parents buy it, then the argument would just as much apply to alcohol of the liquid variety which too comes in colorful and attractive packaging / labeling.
This is already an issue in other spheres. Packaged dishwasher detergents (one of the most ludicrous ideas of the 21st century, an individually wrapped bit of soap that you can -- no fuss, no muss - drop into your dishwasher* without thinking) have been implicated in a number of children's poisionings because they are of a size, color and consistency that mimics a candy. Kids find that under the sink, pop open the foil and - instant GI cleansing routine (plus a bunch a bunch of unsafe chemicals). The CPS
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Nope your wrong, they argue over who has to put them away lol Having a dishwasher just creates different types of arguments.
Re:The colorful packaging is a valid concern (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you wash your laundry by hand too?
Raise and hand pluck your own chickens?
What's the difference?
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But think of the children! We must make their world a perfectly safe bubble so that they'll never get a bump or a bruise or a peanut allergy. Oh wait, that's how they got the allergy in the first place isn't it?
Sorry, but helicopter parents make me want to barf. If you're kid isn't allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, they'll fail as adults. Yes, they will likely do some stupid shit, and occasionally get hurt because of it. If you're doing your job properly, you'll focus on the extremely dange
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Children who have never left the hugbox are becoming parents now, having never known life outside the padding. You can't reason with them; your experience of life is too alien.
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You know why it's "Mothers against drunk driving"? Because "Mothers against drinking" would have made for an acronym that would be too obviously close to reality.
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Join DAMM. Drunks against Mad Mothers.
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Yeah, history has shown us just how great an idea that is!
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Maybe half a kilo each, given that a full bottle is usually a kilo or more. So about a kilo for a "couple". That is to say, heavier than my tent.
Most people above seem to be missing the point. Carrying the alcohol isn't the problem with hiking with it. The problem is the bottle.
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First time I've seen someone post a "pro-tip" that was factual. As a young enthusiastic engineer, I always wanted to design cool stuff...better, faster, cheaper. Later in life, I was at a project leadership seminar for engineers where we were briefed by contracts people. I learned the acronym POET, and how it affects your odds of winning a contract. Hint: Tech is last for a reason.
Someone did a better job of describing it here than I can...
http://blog.kickin-the-darknes... [kickin-the-darkness.com]