Automakers To Gearheads: Stop Repairing Cars 649
Mr_Blank writes Automakers are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home mechanics and car enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own vehicles. In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a car constitutes a copyright violation, OEMs and their main lobbying organization say cars have become too complex and dangerous for consumers and third parties to handle. The dispute arises from a section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that no one thought could apply to vehicles when it was signed into law in 1998. But now, in an era where cars are rolling computing platforms, the U.S. Copyright Office is examining whether provisions of the law that protect intellectual property should prohibit people from modifying and tuning their cars.
You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Funny)
I guess when my windshield gets a knick in it or if someone rubs my fender, it's time to throw out my car!
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing a nice, expensive official repair shop won't fix.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing a nice, expensive official repair shop won't fix.
Well, somebody needs to play Devil's Advocate here, so I will. What if onboard vehicle computers truthfully are (or soon will become) so complicated - and so integral to the functioning of the vehicle - that an untrained hobbyist screwing with it could cause injury or death? What if some homebrew-loving gearhead hacker decides to roll his own firmware for the car because he thinks he can squeeze some extra MPG out of it, and instead it zeroes out the odometer due to a glitch? Or disables the seatbelt warnings? Or randomly cuts of f the engine in the middle of the highway?
Yes, it can be argued that negligent behavior causing death or injury already has penalties, but those are after the fact. We all understand how easy it is to screw up software. Do we want to be reactive or penalize it in the first place? Might it not be reasonable to say in effect that cars with owner-modified computers are fine but are no longer street legal?
P.S. No, I don't work for a car company, I'm not a shill or a troll. In fact I generally find cars quite boring. But I find Slashdot even more boring when nobody attempts to find merit in a contrary opinion...
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Interesting)
My response is: That's YOUR (the automaker's) fault for making them that way, and therefore you need to change your habits, not me.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't need to worry about car complexity creating that scenario. An idiot wrench can absolutely wreck his ability to stop by sucking air into a caliper while 'bleeding the brakes' leading to a failed panic stop or fail to lock down cables on a carb leading to a stuck open throttle, etc.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Informative)
Hell, the moron who replaced the water pump in a truck just before I bought didn't bother to clip the radiator hoses down [just push them into their holders].
Two weeks later, fan rubs a hole in it, and all the water gets pumped out.
Fortunately, it was a cold day and I wasn't too far from a parts store...
There are a million things that a weekend mechanic can do to make a vehicle dangerous to drive.
And don't forget the manufacturer. They can't even get it right. Are there any vehicles that don't have one or more recalls issued for them, for all kinds of fun reasons like the ignition key turning to off [and locking the steering wheel in place] while the car is in motion, or the steering wheel coming off, engine revving or turning off spontaneously, transmission shifting incorrectly, brakes failing, air bags deploying [or not].
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
The big issue for me is that around here the chance of having my car repaired by a moron is a lot greater if I go to a dealer shop instead of some trusted garage that all my friends use.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Informative)
I won't let mechanics install brakes because it costs $600-$800 for two wheels, whereas I buy upgraded brake pads (make sure they're street pads, not race pads--never upgrade to racing pads; they won't stop unless they're hot) and new rotors and do my brakes in 20 minutes for about $100. Brakes are ungodly simple: take tire off, unbolt caliper, slap new pads in, pop new rotor on (if you're doing a new rotor), stick caliper back on. If you want, you can flush the brakes with a bleeder kit or with someone in the car pumping the brake pedal (just make sure you do it right--close the petcock while they have the pedal down, not after they release it!).
So yeah. I can perform a $1500 job in around $200 and less than an hour of work. Brakes are one of the most overcharged things on a mechanic's list.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck, man, brakes have been like that for a hundred goddamn years!
Stop letting "buh-buh-buh-computers!" be an excuse for corporate sociopaths and nanny-state asswipes to destroy your rights. Seriously.
We have two choices: we can be free, or we can be safe. These are mutually exclusive. And in the United States of America, the only correct choice is to be free. Sniveling infantile cowards who think otherwise can fuck off and die.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Funny)
Professor: Oh God, I clicked without reading!
Cubert: And I slightly modified a thing that I own.
Professor: We're monsters!
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the local Mercedes-Benz dealership doesn't do body work, so my parents had to go to the local Cadillac/5others dealer a couple years ago when a deer committed suicide by running into and bouncing off our front bumper and grill. It looked like almost no damage, but it took months to get everything fixed, since the Cadillac dealership/bodyshop didn't have any official trained MBenz mechanics to do the work that they would have had to do.
So, no, your official repair shop might not handle your windshield crack or fender scratch, even now.
The only automakers mentioned in the article (yes, I occasionally read them, so sue me) were GM and Ford, which are oddly enough the only two US companies left (left as US companies, at least). Whether Chrysler Fiat or any of the US manufacturing Japanese companies AREN'T doing this, aren't doing this YET, or just weren't worth mentioning since engineering decisions are made out of the country and thus beyond reach of mail campaigns, is anybody's guess.
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Um, I don't think they're using those in any modern headlights yet, except maybe for a handful of high-end luxury models perhaps. They still aren't installing xenon headlights on "normal" cars yet, only on the higher-end (30k+) models. They've come down some, but the $15-25k segment still uses old-fashioned halogens.
And xenon headlights are pretty easy and cheap to fix, at least if it's just the bulb; the bulbs are readily replaceable, no different than the halogens.
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Um, I don't think they're using those in any modern headlights yet, except maybe for a handful of high-end luxury models perhaps. They still aren't installing xenon headlights on "normal" cars yet, only on the higher-end (30k+) models. They've come down some, but the $15-25k segment still uses old-fashioned halogens.
And xenon headlights are pretty easy and cheap to fix, at least if it's just the bulb; the bulbs are readily replaceable, no different than the halogens.
You need to go car shopping, $30K+ is very common nowadays. And HID headlights cost from $70 to $250.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed. Sounds like Apple.
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You can mod your Apple if you want. No law prohibits it, yet
FTFY.
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But the technology does.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Informative)
But the technology does.
Actually, it doesn't. You just have to know how. All it takes is the skill to pull it off, and the cojones to laugh at the EULA/Warranty warnings.
Some of us have been modifying Apples in ways they definitely weren't built for, and have been doing so for a very long time... [cubeowner.com] (In this instance, the Cube was definitely not built to take on a Radeon 8500, or the horde of other modifications I made to it.)
Seriously - bumping a HDD or RAM on a shiny new MacBook Pro is nothing that a decent soldering iron and top-grade solder can't help you accomplish. Much easier than, say, swapping out a car engine.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
"Being locked in jail doesn't prevent you from leaving, all you need is a hacksaw and some elbow grease. People have been modifying jails this way for a very long time."
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The DMCA act actually prohibits rooting your phone, there is an exception to the law presently, but it needs to be renewed every few years unlike the DMCA...
So yeah, there is a law that prohibits it, luckily a few individuals brought it to a court and got an exception for that particular case, for now.
Re: (Score:3)
Have you ever owned apple hardware?
I've modded more than a few devices, more than a few times, and Apple has no problem with it...
You must be new here.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/11/16/1749220/apple-disables-trim-support-on-3rd-party-ssds-in-os-x [slashdot.org]
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll have to try harder than that for an example, because that's already been defeated very handily. [cindori.org]
Oh, and these guys [macsales.com] will happily sell you shiny new SSD's with native OSX TRIM support.
(...besides, even without TRIM support there's no real difference for the average user in longevity or performance on an SSD. I've gone without it the whole time I've had mine; by the time the SSD wears out, I'll just go out and buy one twice the size - probably for the same price I paid for the 512GB Crucial SSD that I have shoved into my MBP right now.)
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Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
Penguinisto: you need to try harder than that. The claim was that Apple had a problem with it. If Apple disables TRIM support on a 3rd party SSD, that is solid evidence that Apple has a problem with it. The fact that it can be defeated does not nullify the point.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
Have you ever owned apple hardware? I've modded more than a few devices, more than a few times, and Apple has no problem with it...
Have you ever owned an iMac from this decade? No screws on the outside with which to open it up - you have to buy a 3rd party cutter disc to cut the glue between the front glass and chassis so you can lift the whole unit out to work on it. The latest models can't even have their desk stands removed to put them on a Vesa mount - you have to preorder one with the Vesa mount fitted already!
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Insightful)
Fine, if I no longer fucking own the damned car, then they can charge me considerably less for it.
What they want to do it wipe out the doctrine of "First Sale" which says "this is my property, what you think I should do is irrelevant".
This is just a cash grab by greedy assholes.
But if the car isn't mine, don't go expecting the same amount of money for it.
I sincerely hope these auto makers get smacked down really hard.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
Since I'm not buying it I shouldn't be taxed on it
Nope. Legally you own it. The summary is pretty clear the automakers are abusing copyright, remember?
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Interesting)
From a legislative point of view, an automobile conveys more personal freedom than anything other than weapons. Therefor it will be constrained, (you can only drive this or that type of vehicle) then limited (i. e. mass transit or autonomous-cabs for the masses), then restricted (as in "Hey you middle class,go huddle with the masses") until only the elite have actual freedom of movement.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
We kind of do the pollution thing already- you need to take smog tests in most states to keep it registered. Older cars have more trouble than newer ones. There are exemptions for cars old enough to be classics, but it is effective at weeding out those in the 15-20 year old range.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Interesting)
Depends heavily on the state, county, etc.
I was pretty livid living in Harris County (Houston, TX), driving past the petro-refineries pumping out visible tons of pollution per day to take my 3rd round smog test because my 1600cc car that I drive 4000 miles a year was measuring 230ppm hydrocarbons instead of the legal 220 - meanwhile our 5900cc pickup truck had a legal limit of 330ppm....
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Older cars have more trouble than newer ones. There are exemptions for cars old enough to be classics, but it is effective at weeding out those in the 15-20 year old range.
My 1993 Ford Escort Wagon (yes, I still own it) has absolutely no trouble passing State of Washington emissions laws. It's not even close to the limits.
My vehicle currently gets roughly 35 mpg highway and 30 mpg city. I know it's simplistic to use gas mileage as a proxy for gasoline conversion efficiency, but - it is not obvious to me that there's been significant improvement in gas engines over the past 20 or 30 years. I don't see a lot of similarly-sized new cars that do better than - or even as good as -
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The price of a car (and everything else, for that matter) has never been been determined by value, or utility, it is determined by what the market will bear.
What they are hoping here is that the market will continue to pay current prices for cars while losing the right to modify or repair them. I'm sure the people who lease a new one every 2 years won't mind a bit; mechanics, tuners, and gearheads are another story.
Since this is a democracy, we have to hope that people standing on principles of freedom / p
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Interesting)
Ironically the Italians are the worst at this sort of stuff. Ever catch a glimpse of the Ferrari agreements? They actually prohibit you from selling your car to anyone that Ferrari doesn't approve for two years after purchase.
Apparently it's to keep the collector's value high.
Re: (Score:3)
A freely-entered agreement between you and an automaker is one thing. A federal law limiting your rights is another.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
Because you actually need to RTFA.
This is linked in the article: http://copyright.gov/1201/2015... [copyright.gov]
Relevant section:
In comments submitted so far, automakers have expressed concern that allowing outsiders to access electronic control units that run critical vehicle functions like steering, throttle inputs and braking "leads to an imbalance by which the negative consequences far outweigh any suggested benefits," according to the Alliance of Global Automakers. In the worst cases, the organizations said an exemption for enthusiasts "leads to disastrous consequences."
You'll see "Global" in that quote mind you. But if you look at some of the organizations, they include companies like Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Volvo, etc. I'm gonna just chalk this up to anti-American bias.
Re:You no longer own a car (Score:5, Informative)
I'm gonna just chalk this up to anti-American bias.
I'm American.
Wikipedia tells us this about the "Association of Global Automakers": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]
The Association of Global Automakers (Global Automakers) is a Washington, D.C.-based trade association and Lobby group whose members include international automobile and light duty truck manufacturers that build and sell products in the United States.
However, most bizarrely, here is the member list: Aston Martin, Ferrari, Honda, Hyundai, Isuzu, KIA, Maserati, McLaren, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki and Toyota. Notably missing, the Americans and the Germans. So this looks more like this is coming from some sort of Asian lobbying group.
So I will have to correct my statement in my original post:
So simple solution . . . don't buy an Asian car, if you want to own your vehicle.
Re: (Score:3)
This is where all this copyright bullshit is getting out of hand.
There is one essential thing that copyright is supposed to require: making a damn copy!
Unless the owner is doing that -- and people modifying their own cars won't be -- then copyright has no fucking business kicking in to begin with.
Re: (Score:3)
Its already been like that for a while actually.
Have you ever tried replacing a major component such as a transmission of a car yourself? in most cases the car does an audit of whats plugged in before it will even turn the engine over. If an installed part has a serial number that doesn't match the ECU's stored manifest, the car wont even try to start. To update the manifest you need a dealer-only tool.
Re: You no longer own a car (Score:4, Informative)
Ugh, I think you need to actually work on cars before saying anything like that.
Only the Nissan GTR has an engine mated and tuned directly to the transmission. Other high end (150+k) cars would have this even remotely possible. Cars are mass produced. The transmission your car can be replaced with any of the like car transmissions without being disabled.
Re: (Score:3)
Ugh, I think you need to stop talking down to people. As it happens I do "actually" work on cars and have done so for a long time.
>> Other high end (150+k) cars would have this even remotely possible.
Wrong. There are many brands that all have cars under $40k that do this. You can start with most if not all Euro brands, especially the premium brands.
>> Only the Nissan GTR has an engine mated and tuned directly to the transmission. ....which has exactly nothing to do with what I was describing. Pl
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I know as an anti-theft "feature", some makes have coding on the radio making it impossible to replace with another OEM radio.
Here's another one: Someone I know accidentally set off the airbags in their car (no collision). They replaced the bags, but the air bag light was still on. Toyota couldn't simply "reset the fault" and wanted to sell him a whole new air bag computer ($$$). He found some online outfit that will reset the computer.
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Of course this will never be allowed to happen. If so it might well completely collapse the economy. There are many, many people who cannot afford to pay someone to do repair work on their vehicles, and what are you going to tell them? "Sorry, you have to quit your job you're just getting by on, and take a shittier job within walking distance of home, because you can't afford to pay exhorbitant fees to have simple repairs done to your car that yo
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They want to be assholes.
"Want to be"!?!
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Great... Next we'll be told that it's a "transportation appliance" with no user serviceable parts inside..
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then the greedheads can fix the cars for free (Score:3)
forever.
Probably best (Score:5, Insightful)
To purchase a nice car from the 60's or 70's with no computer. Easy to fix, and except for crash-readyness usually pretty solid.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Cars from the 60's-70's suck big time.
What you want is a car from the early '90s, pre OBDII.
It turns out that the engine computer in my car is a 6502 derivative. Seeing how I cut my programming teeth on VIC-20's, C-64's and Atari 800's it wasn't difficult to go in to the rom and modify the code as I saw fit.
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Coincedently I just bought a 64 1/2 'stang.
Buy it off me, before I put a mouse and a munci in it. It will be the first SS mustang (that will really piss them off).
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I'd give the van's occupants better odds than I'd give you against a brick wall, though.
Re:Probably best (Score:5, Informative)
Actually most hot rodders are using the new Chevy LS engines on older cars because they are so good and easy to work one even with the computer.
Google Chevy LS builds.
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Terrible mileage, hard to find parts, unsafe in crashes, harder to drive. If you're willing to put up with all that because you're just such a gearhead, why not just build your own car from the ground up?
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You probably don't have to go that old, plenty of cars from the late 90's are both safer, and get better gas mileage. Sure they have ECU's too, but the ECU tends to be only for engine management, and its built with 80's era DIP's and 1Mhz processors. AKA you can reprogram it, repair it,etc.
I've have a late 90's Toyota, that is pretty open (or has been reverse engineered) has airbags/etc. But it doesn't have TPS's that have to be replaced all the time, or an AC that decides I don't want recirculation on with
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ABS has its own computer(s). Always has.
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I live in a family of people who can do pretty well under the hood for repairs. They've said they think it'd be great if auto man
Oh Look, a Car Analogy for Last Week's Story! (Score:2)
Time to pass a bill state by state [slashdot.org]. I'm the sure the invisible hand of the free market will line all the right politicians' pockets to rush those through. Hopefully someday we won't be able to own our cars and we can go back to the Ma Bell days when every phone was rented.
Re:Oh Look, a Car Analogy for Last Week's Story! (Score:5, Informative)
This has nothing to do with the free market. This is using government regulation to prevent the fair use of your own property.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if someone made that lame brained argument on the automaker's side. They're no more in favor of a free market than a communist is. It just so happens that when they have bought out the government, government regulation works for them, and not as a means of checking them.
Re:Oh Look, a Car Analogy for Last Week's Story! (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed. I never understood that circular logic. Perhaps somebody of that persuasion can explain how it (allegedly) works for us.
Businesses want control, and if you don't properly regulate them, they'll use every method they have to gain their desired control. I see the government functioning like referees. Without referees a game would become a dirty slugfest instead of a skillfest. Basketball and wrestling would be the same sport. Sure, refs are sometimes stupid, but anybody in any institution can likewise be stupid.
Classic abuse of power (Score:5, Insightful)
Hold it (Score:5, Insightful)
" The dispute arises from a section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that no one thought could apply to vehicles when it was signed into law in 1998"
Do the editors even read this site ? Virtually everyone realized this could apply to just about anything that ran code. There was even the infamous use garage door opener case
https://freedom-to-tinker.com/... [freedom-to-tinker.com]
And the HP and Lexmark toner cartridge cases which were just about embedded serialization
Re:Hold it (Score:4, Interesting)
No, the people that "didn't realize this" are the politicians and proponents of the DMCA and other horrible laws like it, and the others who bought the line of BS being fed to them by those proponents - the people who dismissed such objections as the being "outlandish," "preposterous," or similarly unrealistic. We tried to tell them, and they ignored us.
Re:Hold it (Score:5, Informative)
And the HP and Lexmark toner cartridge cases which were just about embedded serialization
Yeah, no. This was specifically mentioned in the Lexmark v Static Control Components case. That was already dealt with in the 6th circuit and supported 9-0 by the SCOTUS. Copy of the decision. [eff.org]
Automobile manufacturers, for example, could control the entire market of replacement parts for their vehicles by including lock-out chips. Congress did not intend to allow the DMCA to be used offensively in this manner, but rather only sought to reach those who circumvented protective measures “for the purpose” of pirating works protected by the copyright statute. Unless a plaintiff can show that a defendant circumvented protective measures for such a purpose, its claim should not be allowed to go forward. If Lexmark wishes to utilize DMCA protections for (allegedly) copyrightable works, it should not use such works to prevent competing cartridges from working with its printer.
Yes it is a short line, but it seems rather bright-line to cite in this case.
Bad news for a lot of people (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Bad news for a lot of people (Score:5, Informative)
They are already having some difficulties. Cars are a lot more complicated than they used to be, and getting more so. That means even simple repairs on anything other than the body involve a fair amount of computer work. Want to replace the air filter? Ok. Want to replace it with a slightly different one for performance tuning purposes? The ECU is configured for the stock part, and you can't reprogram it to utilise one with lower flow resistance unless you purchase the manufacturer's highly-specialised cable and software, and even then they might not allow it to be flashed with details for non-standard parts. You can't swap the gearbox because the old one has a link to the vehicle network in order to report the current gear selection and output angular speed to the ECU, and you'll struggle to find another that speaks the same protocol - assuming there isn't a deliberate anti-tamper in place that disables the vehicle if it detects an unauthorised serial number, and again requires reconfiguring using the expensive specialised tool.
Everyone on Slashdot has seen the situation with computer technology in recent years: They are not built to be repairable. Locked-down firmware, more parts being soldered to the mainboard to bring costs and size down, and the rise of devices like tablets that deliberately render low-level access impossible so the user is confined to running only what the manufacturer permits. Same story in automotive, just a few years behind.
At the welcome screen (Score:2, Funny)
When you start your new car for the first time, an FBI warning replaces the metering display and an annoying voice from the sound system asks; "You wouldn't pirate a movie, would you?"
Why stop at vehicles? (Score:3)
In 100 years it will be determined that home based human baby producing process is too dangerous. All the enthusiasts and hobbyists are at great risk of infringing of the global law, 1 baby per family, and are at risk of procreating unauthorized offspring.
Re: (Score:3)
with the population projected to hit 11 bn by 2100... "1 baby per family, and are at risk of procreating unauthorized offspring" maynot be a bad thing
Population Control is Unnecessary (Score:3)
In fact, I'd go so far as to say our problem isn't going to be having too many babies, it's going to be having enough of them.
Several advanced nations have already fallen well below replacement level (i.e., roughly 2 births per female). The USA is even one of those natio
Stallman was right (Score:4, Insightful)
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy... [gnu.org]
Gearheads to Automakers: (Score:5, Funny)
(at least the ones who think this is a good idea)
Fuck off and die, preferably in a fire.
ok then (Score:2)
From now on, sticking with cars made before this stupid concept went into effect.
Talk to your representative (Score:2)
The DMCA does indeed suck. You should let your senator know that you don't want this and maybe even create one of those presidential petitions?
I wonder... (Score:2)
A cynic might suspect that this is the automakers' response to the coming of the electric car, with its much lower maintenance costs.
Gearheads to Automakers... (Score:3)
Fuck you.
Show me a car that I'm not allowed to fix, and I'll show you a car that I won't allow myself to buy.
Re: (Score:2)
Fuck you.
Show me a car that I'm not allowed to fix, and I'll show you a car that I won't allow myself to buy.
Problem is, they can probably apply it retroactively to any car you're likely to currently own.
Hang on.... (Score:5, Funny)
How are we supposed to make a car analogy now?
Re:Hang on.... (Score:5, Funny)
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Inaccurate headline. (Score:5, Informative)
From the article;
Industry concerns are mounting that modifying these ECUs and the software coding that runs them could lead to vulnerabilities in vehicle safety and cyber security. Imagine an amateur makes a coding mistake that causes brakes to fail and a car crash ensues. Furthermore, automakers say these modifications could render cars non-compliant with environmental laws that regulate emissions.
This is not about replacing brakes, oil changes, replacing spark plugs, etc. It is about making software changes that most people do not have the experience or knowledge to do.
Mod parent up (Score:2)
Came here to say this. This has nothing to do with replacing your spark plugs or ball joints. This is about modding your ECU. That said, I think that if a manufacturer ships an ECU that can be modded to such a degree that it causes the brakes to fail, the manufacturer bears a lot of that fault. However, in general, cars aren't cell phones or PCs. It's no big deal if you load up Cyanogenmod and your phone crashes. It's a pretty big deal if you flash your ECU and you lose traction through a turn thanks to som
Re:Inaccurate headline. (Score:5, Insightful)
And if such changes would cause the vehicle to no longer comply with regional safety standards for vehicles, then the person would be held responsible if or when that modification was discovered. While that may be too late to actually prevent an accident, making it illegal to modify your car under the allegation that you may make it unsafe to drive is like making it illegal for you to drink alcohol if you happen to have a driver's license (ignoring the fact that a driver's license is often used for verifying that one is of legal drinking age in the first place) because you might try drive while drunk. Most of the people who are suspected of drunk driving are unfortunately only found so after they have already caused an accident as well.
My point is that like drunk driving, and laws that prohibit that activity, there are already laws that prohibit making any unsafe modifications to your vehicle... and not realizing that a change would cause a vehicle to not meet the necessary safety requirements is no more of a justification than not realizing that one was over the legal limit for blood alcohol content when getting behind the wheel of a car.
Re: (Score:3)
And when the mod for performance causes and engine fire where the ECU is destroyed and all evidence of modification is gone?
And what if the factory programming causes the car to explode if it goes under 55 MPH? Should we ask congress to mandate Keanu Reeves ride with every driver for safety?
There's already laws.... (Score:2)
If manufacturers don't want people tinkering with their systems because they are genuinely concerned about public safety, then it seems to me like they are already covered... there's no need to bring the DMCA into it at all.
Gonna fly against magnuson moss act. (Score:5, Insightful)
In a just world they would lose copyright when they stop warranting the product. You want copyright of that ecu? You give a permanent warranty on it and replace them every time they fail, for free. Don't want to have to replace it? then you give up copyright to the code on it because user needs to fix it. I'm not holding my breath though.
Hackers and Gearheads (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there nothing more American than taking a mass market car and finding another 10 horsepower?
Or making the stereo loud enough to knock down old barns as you drive by?
What if immersing your motherboard in liquid nitrogen for another 3 frames per second were illegal?
Or writing your own operating system could land you in jail?
What have we come to? We need to protect people from doing stupid stuff, but nobody wants to live in a world with only one flavor...
A.
Re:Hackers and Gearheads (Score:5, Insightful)
No, we don't.
In other news (Score:4, Funny)
Religious leaders are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home writers and book enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own bibles. In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a bible constitutes a copyright violation, churches and their main lobbying organisation say bibles have become too complex and dangerous for believers and third parties to even scribble in. The dispute arises from a section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that no one thought could apply to bibles when it was signed into law in 1998. But now, in an era where books are text files, the U.S. Copyright Office is examining whether provisions of the law that protect intellectual property should prohibit people from modifying or even put boogers in their hardcopy bibles.
I have a solution (Score:3)
It sounds like it would be in the interests of public safety, to use their own quotations to support an injunction from them being able to sell these unsafe cars.
Just as unmaintainable computers should not be allowed on the Internet, unmaintainable cars should not be allowed on public roads.
Typical automaker BS (Score:3)
For years these pricks have been ripping off their customers with deceptive pricing and dealer networks that are nothing more than a middle man. They want you to believe that you have to bring your car to the dealer for service but if you read the fine print you will see that any competent neighborhood mechanic can service you car and not void the warranty.
Then along comes Tesla and Uber and others that threaten their monopolies. So instead of changing their business to suit the way consumers want it they double down and try to lock you in. Right out of the playbook of the movie studios and cable companies and utilities. They will litigate and use political pressure to force you to play the game the way they want it played. Same old same old.
We want you to buy a new car every 3 years (Score:4, Insightful)
We want you to buy a new car every 3 years and with auto drive cars they will shutdown after software updates end after 2-3 years.
So, where is the EULA? (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok, automakers want to force me to obey their license terms? WHERE ARE THEY?
I've never had a dealer make me sign a EULA or license terms to use the car they just sold me... Go ahead guys, TRY IT!.
Once you do this, I'm going to review all the software I can find in my car and start looking for Open Source libraries in all that fancy user interface stuff you are providing now and make you comply to the license terms for it all. I have a feeling that we will find that you have some legal problems..
Next they are going to try this on hand tools....
Dealerships HAVE become more cost competitive (Score:3)
I have found other similar situations with brake jobs (I would normally do these myself but in situations involving stuck calipers or parking brake pads that won't release, I call and price it out at the dealership and local brake shops).
Now, I haven't encountered the need for a really large repair yet. I don't know if this scales or not. But it does suggest that the dealerships are aware of consumers pricing out these things and have brought their charges down in response.
Lexmark case (Score:4, Insightful)
Printer manufacturers tried this several years ago with chips in ink cartridges. The supreme court ruled it was ok to reverse engineer the code on these chips if it was required to allow other companies to make make compatible cartidges. I would think the same would apply to cars and after market parts and upgrades.
Re: (Score:2)
This is less "Eagle has landed" and more "First stage of Falcon 9 has...landed".
Re: (Score:2)
Repairing the detuning that DOT and insurance companies forced the car makers to do.
Nothing new under the sun. Removing the asthma tube from the intercooler on my old Eclipse made it non-CA legal.