Amtrak Train Derails In Philadelphia 160
An anonymous reader writes: An Amtrak train has derailed in Philadelphia, injuring at least 50 of the roughly 240 people on board. The train was on its way from Washington D.C. to New York City when it derailed around 9:20pm local time. Former congressman Patrick Murphy, who was aboard the train, said, "It wobbled at first and then went off the tracks. There were some pretty banged-up people. One guy next to me was passed out. We kicked out the window in the top of the train car and helped get everyone out."
Bummer (Score:3)
Any word on whether or not America will ever upgrade (and repair) it's rail lines?
Re:Bummer (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Wisconsin's upgrading rail. One of the main drivers is demand for fracking sand. Since Amtrak runs on mostly freight rails, you need to improve the case for freight to get better passenger service.
http://www.jsonline.com/busine... [jsonline.com]
Re: (Score:2)
further, rail is private infrastructure. BNSF, UP, CSX, KS, and the others can upgrade their stuff when they feel like it.
Re: (Score:3)
The tracks for the Northeast Corridor and Acela trains are predominantly owned by either Amtrak or the regional transit agencies such as MBTA or SEPTA. Almost none of this critical section of track is privately owned.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
America has the most rail of any country. More then the runner ups of both China and India, combined [wikipedia.org]. It may not be the most sophisticated per mile, but good luck upgrading all of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh no, there you go. Pointing out that the US doesn't fit the pattern of all those small European countries, or even large, more populous Asian countries.
The area is like a small European country (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You don't understand how national transportation systems work, apparently. And as much as I wish Congress would eliminate pork, I doubt if Amtrak was the only train running on that section of tracks.
Re: (Score:2)
Did I say anything about American exceptionalism? No, I did not.
I pointed out that it isn't proper /. etiquette to bring up the fact that the US isn't one small European country that can change or upgrade "all of their services for X" in one convenient legislative package.
And to put a kick in the message, the list of recent train accidents [wikipedia.org] lists several in Canada and Europe, as well as many Asian countries.
lesson 1 (Score:1)
How many deaths will it take before we as a country demand proper upkeep and upgrade of infrastructure. We used to have the best infrastructure in the world. Power, transportation, communication (telegram, phone, internet), water projects, and etc. Is sad how things have gone downhill so badly.
Re: (Score:2)
How many deaths will it take before we as a country demand proper upkeep and upgrade of infrastructure.
Zero died in this incident, and it isn't clear that "bad infrastructure" even played a role.
Re: (Score:2)
Zero died in this incident,
If you can't get that part right it doesn't speak much for any of the other things you say.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
How many deaths will it take before we as a country demand proper upkeep and upgrade of infrastructure. We used to have the best infrastructure in the world. Power, transportation, communication (telegram, phone, internet), water projects, and etc. Is sad how things have gone downhill so badly.
How many deaths until we ban mass transit? Or at least enact reasonable mass transit control laws. You transit nuts are responsible for thousands of innocent children dying is massive slaughters like this.
32,000+ car accident deaths in the USA in 2013.
34 rail deaths in 2013.
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_02_01.html_mfd
Suck it, Trebek.
Re: lesson 1 (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, Ruby really does suck. I'm sticking with PHP.
Re: (Score:2)
Wosh!
Re: (Score:3)
See, the airlines base their regional rates around Amtrak rates. So without Amtrak (or one with fewer hooks into local transportation), the airlines can screw over their customers that much more. The airlines aren't the only ones who'd love to see Amtrak disappear either. Big oil and their lackeys the car manufacturers all would love to see rail transportation disappear completely. They can't touch freight because that's private, but Amtrak is Federal which means it's easier to neuter.
I haven't seen any ind
Re: (Score:2)
Light rail and Amtrak are two totally different things. Don't conflate them.
Light rail is extremely expensive per mile and of dubious usefulness since it usually doesn't happen to be going the way you need to go. It's an alternative to car-commuting or buses, but doesn't have the flexibility of bus routes and certainly not the convenience of cars. But it doesn't take you far, only within your city.
Amtrak is for inter-city and regional travel. (You can also take it cross-country, but that takes days and
Re: (Score:2)
Railroad travel between DC and NYC has overtaken plane travel for that route and has effected plane routes.
That's good to hear, and it makes perfect sense. Plane travel is a PITA: the airports are far, far away from the cities and require expensive cab rides, whereas the train goes directly to the city center. And there's no long wait time, sitting on the tarmac for hours, or being molested by the TSA.
They just need to fix the track so they can run at 125+ safely (on the normal train) and they'll easily
Re: (Score:2)
If rail becomes a serious threat to the airlines then that will change. TSA already practices molesting rail passengers on a trial basis.
Re: (Score:2)
> Big oil and their lackeys the car manufacturers all would love
> to see rail transportation disappear completely.
Assuming "Big oil" or "the car manufacturers" even noticed the impact passenger rail has on their bottom lines (read: statistically, none at all), it's still a pretty big reach to argue that the amount is even big enough to justify paying the salary of a single lobbyist or two.
Remember, outside the northeast, American trains are almost universally DIESEL. And Bombardier's non-electric Acel
Re: (Score:2)
I'm just wondering how anyone noticed. It's Philly, most of the area looks like a train wreck . . .
Re: (Score:2)
Just watched it... IN A GREECE TV STATION... (Score:4, Interesting)
2 thoughts:
The world is so small nowadays.
Why is this on Slashdot...!?
Re:Just watched it... IN A GREECE TV STATION... (Score:5, Informative)
Why is this on Slashdot...!?
Because some people who read slashdot also take the train
Because technology failures are interesting to technology people
Because intrastructure issues are important to the economy that employs slashdot readers
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You know what? This derailment happened on the busiest passenger railroad line on the whole planet. Many many people will be affected all over the world when these commuters do not arrive at work on time tomorrow. The world still revolves around NYC. This is big news for the business world.
Re: (Score:3)
This derailment happened on the busiest passenger railroad line on the whole planet.
I have ridden on this line from NYC to DC. I have also ridden on the Yamanote Line in Tokyo. There is absolutely no way that this Amtrak line is the world's busiest.
Re: (Score:2)
There is absolutely no way that this Amtrak line is the world's busiest.
What you were not paying attention to, is that those rails are not just used by Amtrak. They are also used by SEPTA and New Jersey Transit. Both of these agencies run a lot more trains on these tracks than Amtrak. Between the three of them this is the highest capacity passenger rail in the world.
Re:Just watched it... IN A GREECE TV STATION... (Score:5, Informative)
Between the three of them this is the highest capacity passenger rail in the world.
No way. The Yamanote line carries more than 3 million people on a typical day. During rush hour, a train arrives every three minutes. This Amtrak line is no where close to that. This train was carrying 258 people. The Japanese pack that many people into a single compartment.
Re: (Score:2)
Between the three of them this is the highest capacity passenger rail in the world.
No way. The Yamanote line carries more than 3 million people on a typical day.
The two train stations in NYC handle over 2 million people on a typical day. They are two of the busiest train stations in the world and they are just a few blocks apart. One million people walk through the main hall at grand central terminal, twice a day. I don't have current stats on how many people ride on the rails in question but it is probably well over a million people a day. This is not some stupid podunk railroad, this is major US infrastructure that is currently down.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"One million people walk through the main hall at grand central terminal, twice a day. "
None of whom are there to get on a train toward Philadelphia and Washington.
Re: (Score:1)
Why is this on Slashdot...!?
Because some people who read slashdot also take the train
Because technology failures are interesting to technology people
Because intrastructure issues are important to the economy that employs slashdot readers
I could accept the later two (even if an accident just happened, without any details of a technical nature, is not a good enough reason to discuss technology/infrastructure issues) - BUT "Because some people who read slashdot also take the train"?
Should i report about Athens' trafic and weather, just in case?
Re: (Score:2)
This is the busiest passenger rail on the whole planet.
This shuts down amtrak and also regional commuter rail.
Lots and lots of people are going to be late for work tomorrow.
These are not just any people, they are the ones who pay big money to ride the commuter train (usually over $300/month) so many companies will probably be running very short-handed in the management department tomorrow.
Re: (Score:2)
Ignore him, he's turning into the Greek APK.
There are definite similarities in style, irrelevance and insanity.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Dr. Sheldon Cooper and many others take the trains too! :D
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot should deal with facts, not speculative breaking news.
Heh. You do know this site is ad-supported, right?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
wait, greece still has TV's?
also, i hope their commentary goes something along the lines of, "this tragedy occurred on an actual functioning, profit-neutral rail line" because, you know, greeks probably have never encountered that scenario.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi... [bbc.com]
Re: (Score:2)
:)
yes, not paying taxes will do that.
i'd wonder at the purchasing power of the average income. i'd also wonder at the distribution of income, with greece's current 25 percent unemployment rate.
the US rail is pretty functional too, but that corridor actually turns profits occasionally.
Re: (Score:3)
They're not too concerned about plurals and possessives either.
Re: (Score:3)
There's no such thing as sodium zincide, and even if there was you've got the valencies wrong.
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Just watched it... IN A GREECE TV STATION... (Score:4, Funny)
Well, for starters, zinc is Zn, not Zi, so it's not going to be NaZi no matter how you arrange the atoms.
Re: (Score:2)
So it's all over NaZn?
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, realised as soon as I hit it. Posting before coffee after a bad night. Don't do it, kids.
It'd be wrong as a zirconide too.
When I was about 15 I knew most of the periodic table by heart, and I'd never deliberately memorised it. It was smaller then, mind...
Re: (Score:2)
My news feed has been all about Greece making payments on the bailout in order to regain confidence.
You must be talking about our colleagues to the south ... which yeah we kinda wish they'd secede.
Re: (Score:2)
the fact that you care enough to comment indicates you're lying
if the story was really as you say you would not have clicked
but you clicked and even made a comment, so clearly it worked for you
congratulations for participating
Re: (Score:1)
the fact that you care enough to comment indicates you're lying
if the story was really as you say you would not have clicked
but you clicked and even made a comment, so clearly it worked for you
congratulations for participating
I made my comment less than ten minutes this story posted in Slashdot, and 3-4 minutes after i watched it in a Greek TV station from Athens - and since is the "morning news" for us, i now watched it 2 more times*!!!
So, in a world that is so small, you think this story is appropriate for Slashdot?
I report to fellow Athenian Slashdoters that i just learned we have a small trafic problem in Syntagma square.
* You can use this link http://www.skai.gr/player/tvli... [www.skai.gr] to watch in live streaming the Greek (Athens)
Re: (Score:2)
In 1969, man landed on the moon. Most of the planet learned about it 1.3 seconds later.
Re: (Score:1)
In 1969, man landed on the moon. Most of the planet learned about it 1.3 seconds later.
I am sure that if we relied on Slashdot for this story we would had learned it much much later - but a news story about a train derail that even a Greek like me just watched it in Greece news stations (and i am sure American did in theirs!) is posted in Slashdot... why?
Re: (Score:2)
In 1969, man landed on the moon. Most of the planet learned about it 1.3 seconds later.
Not in Greece. I think it took until the 1980s.
straw man bashing festival in progress (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody ever said that we should upgrade every single mile of railroad in this country and nobody ever said that we should offer high speed rail service to rural Wyoming, but that won't stop people from telling us why it's hopeless to upgrade our rail system.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
we should offer high speed rail service to rural Wyoming
Then again...that would sure speed up getting tourists to Yellowstone.
High speed rail... (Score:2)
California is on pace to spent 2 trillion dollars on creating a new high speed rail like (between 80 mph and 400 mph). Too bad rail safety isn't what it needs to be.
Re: (Score:2)
Too bad rail safety isn't what it needs to be.
Yeah if it were only safer than every other mode of transportation.
Oh wait, it is.
High Center of Gravity (Score:2)
If you look at this amtrak passenger coach [vistadome.com], its height seems to be above 20 feet. When something this tall, riding on narrow rails, takes a high speed turn, it's bound to overturn and derail due to high center of gravity. Why don't they make much shorter coaches to reduce the CoG? That might eliminate most of these crashes.
Re: (Score:2)
Because people don't want to crawl around in 5-foot-high passenger compartments, that's why.
The coach has to be that high off the ground because of the height of the wheels.
One problem in my view is definitely the narrow width (4'8.5") of the rails, which of course we can thank the Romans for (train rails are that width so that two Roman war horses can fit between them and pull a chariot that isn't any wider than their two butts). If they made the rails wider, trains would be more stable in turns. However
Re: (Score:2)
If you look at this amtrak passenger coach [vistadome.com], its height seems to be above 20 feet. When something this tall, riding on narrow rails, takes a high speed turn, it's bound to overturn and derail due to high center of gravity. Why don't they make much shorter coaches to reduce the CoG? That might eliminate most of these crashes.
That's a special parlour car, which seems to be extra high compared to most passenger coaches in the USA. The standard is the Amfleet I and Amfleet II passenger cars, which are all 12ft, 8 inches tall with a CG of 60.4 inches. [jbartus.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's probably higher than that since the coach rides high over the chassis. Most cars are way below 6 feet in height and SUVs, which are around 6 feet in height, usually have a high rollover risk, again mainly due to their high CoG compared to regular cars even though they are bottom-heavy, just like train coaches.
Re: (Score:2)
It's probably higher than that since the coach rides high over the chassis. Most cars are way below 6 feet in height and SUVs, which are around 6 feet in height, usually have a high rollover risk, again mainly due to their high CoG compared to regular cars even though they are bottom-heavy, just like train coaches.
Well, prepare to be surprised then. According to this diagram of an Amfleet I car [jbartus.com], the CG is at 60.4 inches or a hair more than 5 feet. The wheels and bogies of a train are very heavy. Amfleet II cars are a little different, but not in ways that would significantly affect the CG.
Re: (Score:1)
I'll stick to flying, it's much safer. Also, if I'm lucky I'll get a happy ending during the security pat-down.
Re: (Score:2)
if I'm lucky I'll get a happy ending during the security pat-down.
You must be a grand disappointment to your spouse if that's all it takes
Re:amtrak (Score:5, Insightful)
Im sure its a mixture between driver error and system issues
The majority of derailments are due to track problems or striking vehicles at grade crossings, and nothing to do with the driver or the train. How is it that you are so sure?
Re:amtrak (Score:5, Informative)
all under amtrak control
Perhaps you are thinking of Metro North which is most decidedly not the same as Amtrak?
Perhaps you are thinking of the crash involving undiagnosed sleep apnea (Metro North did not screen its employees for sleep apnea as NHTSA recommends for all operators). They changed his shift unexpectedly, his sleep apnea prevented him from sleeping well and he nodded off. It was 100% preventable if Metro North had followed the guidelines.
Perhaps you are thinking of the derailment and death on Metro North when a train plowed into a work crew. Again no fault to the train or the crew, but a management failure to enforce basic rules of safety.
Oh and you really think that amtrak sets its prices like that? woof!
Re:amtrak (Score:5)
Re:amtrak (Score:5, Insightful)
Or just a mistake, which he acknowledged and thanked you for correcting. Twice.
And you guys were doing so well heading towards getting a "Reasonable Discussion on the Internet" medal, too.
Re: (Score:3)
in normal human conversation, errors are expected and normal
if someone is corrected and they flip out because of it, they are not socially well adjusted
if someone catches someone in an error and they flip out because of it, even after a normal, gracious apology, they are not socially well adjusted
congratulations, your behavior in this thread defines a deficiency in your basic social development
welcome to slashdot i guess
Re: (Score:3)
not bothering to look up basic facts is just a mistake?
On this site I am not at all surprised you can post at +2.
Re:relevance? (Score:5, Insightful)
because here on slashdot we might actually have an interesting discussion about why trains fall off the tracks, the merits of infrastructure investment, why people prefer different forms of transpotation, etc.
believe it or not some people come here for the comments
Re: (Score:1)
I read Slashdot for the articles...
Re: (Score:1)
that's beyond pathetic
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Were you interested in every single other story on the front page? No? Then kindly shut the fuck up.
Re: (Score:2)
You've been suffering for more than a decade. You poor soul.
Re:relevance? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If you have only one day in Los Angeles, make it a train day!
Re: (Score:2)
there's no doubt that people in LA need more training
Re: (Score:2)
I'm glad you don't hate fun!
Re: (Score:2)
The Mayor said during his quick press conference they won't speculate on what happened or how or why. Those are the interesting things up for debate in the court of Slashdot.
This should be on Slashdot in a week when the NTSB gives us some preliminary findings.
Re: (Score:2)
The Mayor said during his quick press conference they won't speculate on what happened or how or why.
We don't have to speculate on the immediate effects on local train transportation. We don't need to know what caused the wreck to know that it's going to be a major hassle for a lot of people until the rails are cleared. We don't need to wait for the official report on the cause before we start making alternative plans to get to work.
Re: (Score:2)
We don't need to wait for the official report on the cause before we start making alternative plans to get to work.
I don't get my news on weather and traffic conditions from a technology website.
Re: (Score:2)
but of all the web pages on the entire internet, you choose to look at this one and you even bothered to post a comment
why is it that you can't admit to yourself that the article was indeed interesting enough to click on? because that is precisely what you did.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I posted a comment about the inappropriateness of the story. Often, things tangential or meta to the story are discussed in the comments.
Interesting does not automatically make something appropriate for a given situation. If the interesting thing was the mechanism of the accident or the novel lifesaving techniques being used to rescue victims, it might have been more appropriate.
I suspect your Pandora stations all mercilessly bleed over into one another.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
There should be a systemd story here every day. The impact systemd is having on the Linux community, and the open source community, is without precedent. It's the kind of thing that should be getting constant coverage here at Slashdot, yet we hear almost nothing about it.
Systemd is revolutionizing (and not for the better) how each and every major Linux distro fits together. Not only is there the technical aspect to it, but systemd is dramatically changing how contemporary Linux distro projects are organized
Re: (Score:2)
So systemd caused the rail crash? I knew it!
Re:Obongo did it (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately their luggage was placed on air freight and half of it is currently believed to be somewhere in Seattle. The other half was recently spotted in a TSA frequented pawnshop in Miami.
Re: (Score:2)
In other news, the passengers were placed on buses to complete their trips. They arrived a day ahead of schedule.
Keep it classy.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, so wrong that I don't know why I bother. See train, which has vastly fewer accidents than cars or busses, cruising by the traffic jams out of Philly and into NYC.
But then, let's also remember that
a) after 9/11, for months, the pilots' union was saying that for trips under 300-400 mi, trains made *far* more sense, yet
b) Congress loves throwing money to airports, and roads, but
c) has yet to fully fund Amtrak.
And then there's outs
Re: (Score:2)
This was the Amtrak line between DC and NYC. There's no diesel fumes on that train, because it uses an electric locomotive.
Re: (Score:2)
This was the Amtrak line between DC and NYC. There's no diesel fumes on that train, because it uses an electric locomotive.
It may have been a diesel electric unit. Many routes, such as the Northeast Regional [amtrak.com] travel from DC to NYC. But they also continue on to other places, like Richmond, VA. I can assure you that the trains continuing on to Richmond are diesel-electric since that line is not electrified. Often they will swap locomotives in DC, but not always.
Re: (Score:2)
It may have been a diesel electric unit. Many routes, such as the Northeast Regional [amtrak.com] travel from DC to NYC. But they also continue on to other places, like Richmond, VA. I can assure you that the trains continuing on to Richmond are diesel-electric since that line is not electrified. Often they will swap locomotives in DC, but not always.
They are *not allowed* to run diesel powered locomotives into NYC. So unless those diesel-electric locomotives are dual-power (meaning they can either run on
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong, it's all-electric. Diesel engines are illegal to drive into NYC, because the rail tunnel going under the Hudson has insufficient ventilation for it. The track between DC and NYC is electrified (has electric wires overhead to directly power the locomotive).
Here's some articles for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05... [nytimes.com]
From the Wikipedia article:
"Its electric locomotives are confined to the Northeast Corridor and Philadelphia to Harrisburg Main Line, while its diesels