US Bombs ISIS Command Center After Terrorist Posts Selfie Online 286
HughPickens.com writes: Brian Everstine writes at Air Force Times that U.S. intelligence officers were able to locate and bomb an Islamic State command center based on a photo and comments in social media. "The [airmen are] combing through social media and they see some moron standing at this command," said Gen. Hawk Carlisle, commander of Air Combat Command. "And in some social media, open forum, bragging about command and control capabilities for Da'esh, ISIL, And these guys go 'ah, we got an in.' So they do some work, long story short, about 22 hours later through that very building, three JDAMS take that entire building out. Through social media. It was a post on social media. Bombs on target in 22 hours."
Carlisle was careful to not go into great detail about the how the information was gathered and what additional effort went into targeting those bombs. It's easy to imagine that in addition to the information gleaned from the initial post that the Air Force used satellite and drone reconnaissance data. It's also possible that U.S. intelligence could have actively engaged with the original poster in order to draw out information. Attackers and researchers have shown time and time again that simply asking a target for information—either by posing as a trusted individual or using carefully created phishing attacks—works even better than fancy information-stealing digital attacks.
Carlisle was careful to not go into great detail about the how the information was gathered and what additional effort went into targeting those bombs. It's easy to imagine that in addition to the information gleaned from the initial post that the Air Force used satellite and drone reconnaissance data. It's also possible that U.S. intelligence could have actively engaged with the original poster in order to draw out information. Attackers and researchers have shown time and time again that simply asking a target for information—either by posing as a trusted individual or using carefully created phishing attacks—works even better than fancy information-stealing digital attacks.
Secret, covert spy knowledge (Score:5, Informative)
Geotags
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‘We kill people based on metadata.’ - Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA and the CIA
Re:Secret, covert spy knowledge (Score:5, Insightful)
I am really, really surprised that they chose to tell us any of this honestly, unless they announced this to try to stem the flow of marketing from ISIS toward young impressionable Muslims by making the social media aspect seem particularly dangerous. If the rank-and-file can't publish their experiences without being blown up, the rank-and-file might stop trying to encourage others to join. That leaves the older people at the top to try to make such decisions, and they might not be as good at convincing the young to join them.
Re:Secret, covert spy knowledge (Score:5, Interesting)
If this was exif tags from the selfie, then that would be data, not metadata.
It may have been exif, but I have seen academic research that used "big data" in the form of satellite images to identify both the location and orientation of photos containing landscape. I would be astonished if the military didn't have this capability, especially since, as I recall, they were funding the research.
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Photosynth
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If this was exif tags from the selfie, then that would be data, not metadata.
We may be arguing semantics here, but the wikipedia page [wikipedia.org] about exif uses the word "metadata" 29 times, with statements like:
The metadata tags defined in the Exif standard cover a broad spectrum
and a specific section about geolocation [wikipedia.org].
From a linguistic/philosophical point of view, an image file contains image data. Additional information about that image data ("metadata"), would include information about the time/date/location that the picture was taken, etc.
tl;dr: It's metadata.
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Maybe they posted a Geocache on their command site
But can it be easily forged? (Score:3)
Anybody using a selfie-stick (Score:5, Funny)
Anybody using a selfie-stick should be bombed into oblivion.
Well done US military, in cleaning up that particular corner of the gene pool.
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Anybody using a selfie-stick should be bombed into oblivion.
I can't remember where I first heard it, but someone said that selfie sticks should due used to beat the people taking selflies.
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That wasn't where I saw it
So, anyone else see a problem here? (Score:5, Interesting)
I predict we'll see "swatting" taken to a whole new level.
Re:So, anyone else see a problem here? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. Deployed service people today are cautioned against taking pictures, especially with cell phones, for this reason.
If you really want to, they recommend running it through public affairs(the professional photographer people) to make sure that information that can precisely locate the photo is removed.
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Hmm, never thought of that possibility. That'll make for some interesting times, if any ISIS types read /.
Or any TLA types, for that matter. First time it happens, he's likely to say something to the effect of "hey, guy on slashdot thought of this a month or so back"....
Which would be...bad.
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That is why it took 22 hours to put bombs on target. They verified the building before blowing it up.
The Geotag was just a clue.
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Re:So, anyone else see a problem here? (Score:5, Funny)
And a new definition of photo-bombing a selfie.
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"Check out our new headquarters, it's da bomb"
Was it EXIF data? (Score:2)
Next time turn off geo tagging (Score:2)
You'd figure terrorists would be more concerned with privacy than the average Joe.
Re:Next time turn off geo tagging (Score:5, Funny)
No, they just stand outside things they want to blow up and rather than actually having to do all the hard work just take a selfie with gps coordinated in the exif and post if to facebook with "ISIS new headquarters" at the description/title/whatever.
Darwin Award (Score:5, Insightful)
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Depends on if the US air force can independently verify that what they whacked was actually a terrorist HQ.
Verification? (Score:4, Insightful)
Here I am standing in front of our TERRORIST HEADQUARTERS on a great sunny day! My fav pic this week hope u like it!
I hope they spent at least a few of those 22 hours verifying that the place they were going to bomb was in fact the TERRORIST HEADQUARTERS.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a school, hospital, or frozen yogurt shop.
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Re:Verification? (Score:4, Funny)
Milking babies is a horrible practice that needs to be stopped!
Or pharmaceutical factory? (Score:2)
The US government tells tales. I'm sure they are announcing this as the alibi for a crime. Just like Al-Shifa was supposedly making weapons, and they never really provided much evidence for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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My same thoughts. Expect them to use photoshop and medified EXIF data to send future bombs strategically elsewhere.
The Brits broadcast false news about V1 and V2 rockets landing in southern London to get the German army to adjust their targeting to land them past the city and cause a lot less damage. The game is likely to continue with social media instead of broadcast radio.
"And when he took the picture, he said..." (Score:3, Funny)
geo-taging (Score:2)
what if isis.. just takes selfie's around iraq mil sites and then uploads them or schools etc etc
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That's what much of the 22 hour delay was for - verifying the target.
Re:geo-taging (Score:4, Informative)
so airforce is gonna walk inside school/building or use non-existent iraq forces in areas..
???
No, they look at satellite imagery, known maps of the area, run a drone by the place before deciding that hellfires are a touch small for this target, let's get some JDAMs in here, etc...
Almost as bad as the selfie ... (Score:2)
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This is the most important take away, but I have no karma.
Idiots (Score:2)
And I'm not just talking about the one that took and posted the picture.
If you are exploiting an intelligence source the last thing you want to do is let on that you are doing so.
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Unless you want to stifle open recruitment operations.
Or they're lying (Score:3)
I see no reason to believe the Air Force is telling the truth about this.
Morons are a problem (Score:2)
Morons are a problem for all. Russia — whose attitude towards accusations of being involved in Ukraine is "Our soldiers aren't there, but they will prevail" — is repeatedly embarrassed by the same kind of morons among her servicemen posting selfies and other photographs [informnapalm.org] picturing them with well-recognizable landmarks and monuments inside Ukraine in the background.
Sigh, if only Ukraine had anywhere near the punch of America's air-force...
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Loose lips ... (Score:2)
Evidently, some IS people didn't study this particular example of basic security precaution...
What DOES an ISIS Command Center Look Like? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does ISIS have its own version of the Pentagon? Is this a building with eagles on it with a big ISIS flag waving over it? Do they have to worry about cutbacks and base closures?
My impression of ISIS is a crowd-sourced and funded guerilla organization. Said "ISIS Command Center" was probably Seldom Bin Leyd's garage where he kept his beater Toyota pickup with the stack of 20+ year old RPGs in the bed. Seldom Bin Leyd naturally was spouting off online during his WOW session (erm, "training") about his "command center", and essentially got swatted with a few JDAMs.
I think we just happened to catch one of the stupid ones. The competent guys in ISIS probably are glad this guy got wasted.
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ISIS is the former Saddam army and bureaucracy. They have extensive experience in running a country and derive income from oil operations and a taxation system.
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ISIS is the former Saddam army and bureaucracy. They have extensive experience in running a country and derive income from oil operations and a taxation system.
Bingo. ISIS is most run by Baath members, to the extent I wonder if it isn't really just Baath hiding in plain sight.
To the U.S. gov, it has now become (Score:3, Interesting)
a fun and cool thing to kill people in other countries. It's just something the U.S. gov does, and in the midst of getting used to this, the innocent people who are also getting killed by U.S. guns and bombs are conveniently forgotten, and no-one is ever held accountable.
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Very true.
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So because other people murder innocents, it becomes acceptable if you do so too? There seems to be some glitch in your brain...
What they didn't report was (Score:2)
the JDAMs were actually delivered through the interweb tubes directly to the command center
Swatting (Score:2)
This could be an opportunity to take swatting to a whole new level. I can just imagine gamer kidies dressing up as ISIS and taking selfies in front of their opponents houses now.
Communications Discipline (Score:2)
They must skip the lessons on communications discipline in the ISIS evil genius training course. Of course, it sounds like Gen. Hawk Carlisle was asleep that day as well.
On the other hand, knowing something of the Middle East, it's probably a triple head-fake of some sort. The selfie was probably taken in front of the house of a local CIA operative whose cover was blown, as an act of combat swatting by ISIS, the 22 hours was the time required for us to get him out of there to safety, and Gen. Carlisle is ju
Now you should understand (Score:2)
Things like this is why I usually post as AC.
Finally, the invention I've been looking for. (Score:2)
Interesting. It looks like the US military has not only invented, but also improved on the technology needed to stab someone in the face over the internet. This will be a boon for reasonable internet discussions everywhere!
http://bash.org/?4281 [bash.org]
George Carlin: I don't believe anything the govern (Score:3)
George Carlin weighed in on such issues, "I don't believe anything the government tells me." https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
This is a really cute story about why they blew up some building in another country. Oh, and it's a completely unverifiable story, too. It's kind of like when Clinton blew up that pharmaceutical factory. There was never really any evidence it was producing chemical weapons. But it was a good story to tell. It sounds better than "we caused ten of thousands of Sudanese to die, in a terrorist retaliation for the embassy bombings." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]
Killing the dumb ones makes them stronger (Score:2)
But that may exactly be what US policies are targeted at. After all, an external enemy is incredibly useful to politicians that cannot solve the problems at home...
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Re:but reporting about it is just as bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
Assuming the story is true. It could be a good cover story for some other type of intelligence gathering. Plus if you can get Daesh to stop using social media, it could be a good thing.
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Assuming the story is true. It could be a good cover story for some other type of intelligence gathering. Plus if you can get Daesh to stop using social media, it could be a good thing.
That was my thought. They must have figured that stemming the recruitment was worth having fewer low-hanging-fruit to attack. Of course, this isn't a new phenomenon, Geraldo Riviera did something similar during our ground operations when he was an embedded reporter and US military personnel have occasionally screwed up this way and cost us equipment too. It's possible they won't learn their lesson.
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If you read the US Navy history of WWII, you will find that US analysts determined the number of Japanese troops on an island by using photo-recon to identify all the privies, estimate the number of holes, and apply the Japanese Army standard ratio. Some time thereafter, it turned out that the number was from a Japanese transmission in a code or cipher the US had broken, and the Navy just came up with a great cover story.
Re:but reporting about it is just as bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the intelligence agencies objective in releasing this story to the press? That's what needs to be examined. Is it meant as a message to ISIS "We got you and we'll get you again because your people are stupid"? Or was it meant to convey to us, the American People: "This is what our metadata surveillance can accomplish if you'd just let us use it"?
Re:but reporting about it is just as bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
My first thoughts are
1. Secondary story to cover a primary tool being used, which they do not want to expose. Kinda like 'giving carrots to pilots' was a cover for development of radar
2. Striking fear into an enemy, which prevents them from using a primary recruiting tool
3. Wanting to trumpet successes while programs are facing restrictive laws in Congress, the Courts and public opinion
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I think this is pretty spot-on. also, it would be funny if everything came down to a geotagged selfie.
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They should have at least "liked" the picture before bombing the building.
If the government says it, it must be true... (Score:2)
We'll never know why they blew up this building or if there were terrorists in it. They are probably announcing it as an alibi for a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I realize that you would not want to bring these ISIS folks home to meet your mother, but I do feel that we should still observe some formalities. Like perhaps a formal declaration of war from Congress? A budget with funding would be really nice.
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Yeah, but when was the last time we did that....
http://blog.constitutioncenter... [constitutioncenter.org]
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Like perhaps a formal declaration of war from Congress?
That's so unlikely that the probability might as well be zero. (yes, I know you're probably aware of that)
The reason we don't call it "war" any more is because the legislative and executive don't want to call it "war". They want to use the more politically correct term "Overseas Contingency Operations".
("politically correct" in this context meaning "don't upset the proles; it's better to confuse them")
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I realize that you would not want to bring these ISIS folks home to meet your mother, but I do feel that we should still observe some formalities. Like perhaps a formal declaration of war from Congress? A budget with funding would be really nice.
The way formal declarations of war work is that you have to declare against nation-states.
This is why "the war on " is so stupid, apart from the fact that you can never declare victory, because you can't establish victory conditions. Take "the war on poverty": OK, poverty surrenders. What are your terms and plans for the conquered lands of poverty going forward?
ISIS is a difficult problem in the same way: despite being regionally located, they are not a politically recognized nation-state, nor are they li
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The nation-state is a fairly recent invention. How were wars declared previously? Here is a nice example:
"Declaration of War
Barbary Pirates, February 6, 1802
An Act for the Protection of the Commerce and Seamen of the United States, Against the Tripolitan Cruisers.
WHEREAS the regency of Tripoli, on the coast of Barbary, has commenced a predatory warfare against the United States:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress Assembled, that it shall be
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*An actual war, not rhetorical wars such as "war or drugs"
it's not about oil (Score:2)
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We did try and rebuild their country. Try rebuilding their country when their own government is bound and determined to maintain the sectarian divide between Sunnis and Shiites. Try and rebuild things while the insurgents are shooting at you and setting off IEDs right and left.
Yeah, we fucked up because we had no plan when we kicked out Saddam, but let's not pretend that it's because we didn't try and rebuild things. Even getting a few oil people rich doesn't preclude us from rebuilding things. There is
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Yes, allowing ourselves to remain dependent on a resource that we do not have regional control over is a very dangerous proposal
In the US we should be working diligently to reduce our long-term dependence on oil, something that we have neglected to do for the past 40 years when the first OPEC embargo demonstrated how we rely on an unstable region
Nuclear should have been the answer with electric vehicles following soon behind
Instead we let our fears of radioactive materials scare us into the arms of the foss
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re: Fracking. (Score:2)
Earthquakes... (Score:2)
I've been monitoring seismic activity in the North-Central Oklahoma region for about a year now. You might want to check . . . they didn't used to get multiple daily 3+ magnitude events there when I was young (admittedly, when dinosaurs roamed the earth).
They're "3+" because we've gone to using the Moment Magnitude Scale in the 1970's, in place of the Richter Scale.
They wouldn't be anywhere near "3+" on the Richter Scale. For that matter, it's somewhat stupid to compare numbers in data before the 970's with data after the 1970's.
But hey, more jobs for geophysicists = a good thing!
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You miss the point; earthquakes were virtually unheard of in Oklahoma until fracking.
You miss the point: they weren't "unheard of" because they didn't happen (check the USGS historical records); they were "unheard of" because they largely went unremarked and unreported, because the numbers were not "scary large" enough to be newsworthy on a slow day, and because they didn't have a controversial issue, like fracking, to hang them on as an advocacy/controversy tactic.
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That is a short lived resource and OPEC can always choose to produce more oil which makes it more economically feasible to stop the fracking operations like we saw earlier this year
The sooner that we get off of fossil fuels the better
Solar power is a fossil fuel (Score:2)
Solar power is a fossil fuel: it's made from fossil sunlight, which is 9 minutes old.
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Don't forget, we were still stuck in tribal animosity in the west just a few decades ago. It's not completely settled, euro-tribalism is still pretty volatile. And with the upcoming election, the American tribalism could flare up violently as well.
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caught up in tribal conflicts that have been going on for a couple of millennia; long before Islam
Almost. The current war are by 2 factions of muslims battling with each other right now. It is not solely for wealth but more for spiritual right of one faction over another*. Fortunately for the West, these internal battles has been going on for about 1400 years. So those tribal conflicts you speak of were settled long before Islam. That is Persia vs the rest of the world, later, Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) vs barbarian hordes etc.
Iran is old Persia that followed the teachings of Zoaroster, the Zoaros
Re:america! (Score:5, Insightful)
One refers to a people, the other refers to a place. Immigrants to the West from the middle east don't kill each other very often based on their ancestor's tribal conflicts.
Children who are raised inside all that BS and never make it out... well.. a few of them will eventually act on it. And.. it doesn't take many to ruin a neighborhood.
"Honor Violence"/"Honor Killings" (Score:4, Informative)
One refers to a people, the other refers to a place. Immigrants to the West from the middle east don't kill each other very often based on their ancestor's tribal conflicts.
The original posting in this thread was rather badly put, but some interesting ideas have come up in the context of replies in the aftermath of that posting.
"Honor Violence"/"Honor Killings": thousands of women and young girls in the U.S. each year.
The immigrants tend to bring their culture with them, and since we've gone from the "melting pot" mentality to the "multicultural" mentality, with its enclaves, things have only gotten worse over recent years:
http://www.theahafoundation.or... [theahafoundation.org]
But, you know, feel free to believe it's an effect of radicalizing radiation that comes from a particular region, and that once people are removed from the region, it magically stops.
You are using the wrong word. (Score:5, Insightful)
racist
I'm a cultural imperialist. I really don't *care* what race the person is who is following Islam.
And no, I'm not apologetic about it, because I don't see it as a bad thing.
While there may be some good in a culture that practices female genital mutilation, gives 100 lashes -- followed by stoning to death -- women for having been raped (zina), assigns the death penalty for people who convert from Islam to another religion (apostasy), cuts off hands and/or feet for theft (a hudud crime in sharia), believe in "an eye for an eye" (Qisas) or a bribe (Diyya) in the event of property damage, injury, or murder... I'm of the opinion that the bad outweighs the good.
And yes, I believe women should be allowed to learn to read.
Heck, the Sunni's can't even *agree* on all aspect of Sharia -- there are four major schools: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali, and a bunch of minor ones) -- and just try to get them to agree with the Shia -- major branch is Jafari, but also a lot of minor ones.
Getting rid of most of this crap is just good sense.
P.S.: I'm pretty sure I'm more knowledgeable on this topic than you are, with your one word response ad hominem attack on me to try to damage the credibility of what I said in my previous posting.
P.P.S.: In case you do not know Latin, which you probably don't, that means "to the person", and it's a logical fallacy, so your attack is pretty meaningless, even if I just proved you're an idiot who can't tell a racist from a cultural imperialist.
Re: america! (Score:2)
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Please, explain, how the above is different from "Sandniggers aren't capable of Democracy."
Thank you.
IMO, the only difference is your substitution of "tribal" with the term "Sandniggers". (strange that you capitalized the S)
The GP's comment has merit, yours only proves your ignorance.
Re:america! (Score:4, Insightful)
Describing the current an past state of affairs isn't the same thing as taking a position on what those populations are capable of. It's really just stating the current state of affairs. I personally think that they're just as capable of democracy as anybody else, but I don't really take issue with the GP's description.
The fact is, democracy is hard. We seem to make the mistake of assuming that freedom and democracy are the natural state of things and if we just bang on something with a stick hard enough, it will settle into that natural state. In reality, democracy usually requires the guy with the most guns to say, "I could be a dictator, enjoy absolute power, and take vengeance on all of the other populations who ever did me and mine wrong, but I won't. You guys go ahead and decide who will run things and I'll go with it." That's not an easy outcome. It takes a pretty difficult alignment of circumstances to get it started. Tribal war over whose turn it is to hold the whip is the natural state of things, and we're naive to think otherwise.
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Do you think "anti social media" would be a better term considering how some use it and what the companies/governments do with your data?
Yes, "anti-social media" is a good term if you think how some people (ab)use facebook and other "social" media (i exclude the companies/governments case because, even if it may be also "anti-social", it then becomes more of a privacy issue, plus i don't examine any anti-social criminal/illegal/terrorist/etc use cases) - i don't have any "social" account, but just by creating a Slashdot account a couple of months ago i become extra anti-social!
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That might be the point. Daesh/ISIL has been really savvy about recruiting through social media. Shutting down their PR operations should be a primary goal of any military operation against them. Make them think twice before posting propaganda that will net them more fighters.
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just make a post to /r/
Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good: More and faster.
Bad: Mouthing off about how we did it, so ISIS won't make the same mistake again.
Re: Good. (Score:2, Informative)
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Nobody has denied that is the case, so I can only assume it's true.
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But oh it's too late, you outed their secret! Unless it was intentionally misleading!
Re: Good. (Score:4, Interesting)
I was under the impression we had huge problems getting humint because of the way their organizational structure and vetting goes.
That was Al Qaeda, which was small and tight. ISIS is big, and loose. This makes them much stronger, and able to hold and defend territory, but it also makes them easier to penetrate.
Re:Good. (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, no.
The person wasn't the target, the building was. If the individual was bragging he was at a military / terrorist C&C location, then the building and everyone else in it were legitimate targets. If the moron was there then it was just gravy.
Re:Good. (Score:4, Funny)
"More and faster."
Yes! Kill all those selfie-ing motherfuckers, everywhere!
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Because seeing someone reprimanded by their boss for something is exactly the same as seeing them and their boss blown up by an airstrike. And hence they warrant the exact same level of fucks given.