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Windows Security

Samsung Cripples Windows Update To Prevent Incompatible Drivers 289

jones_supa writes: A file called Disable_Windowsupdate.exe — probably malware, right? It's actually a "helper" utility from Samsung, for which their reasoning is: "When you enable Windows updates, it will install the Default Drivers for all the hardware no laptop which may or may not work. For example if there is USB 3.0 on laptop, the ports may not work with the installation of updates. So to prevent this, SW Update tool will prevent the Windows updates." Too bad that the solution means disabling all critical security updates as well. This isn't the first time an OEM has compromised the security of its users. From earlier this year, we remember the Superfish adware from Lenovo, and system security being compromised by the LG split screen software.
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Samsung Cripples Windows Update To Prevent Incompatible Drivers

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  • What? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DanJ_UK ( 980165 ) * on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:07AM (#49976551) Homepage
    You've got to be fucking shitting me?
    • Re:What? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:10AM (#49976577) Homepage

      Does their warranty cover hacked laptop?

      • Re:What? (Score:4, Funny)

        by DanJ_UK ( 980165 ) * on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @09:21AM (#49977257) Homepage
        That'll be one hell of a class action lawsuit, I'm almost tempted to buy a Samsung laptop and just leave it plugged in until it's compromised so I can join the compensation gravy train.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I've seen windows updates fuck a LOT of drivers over the years. Like picking up video drivers that either screw the display (video modes all fucked up) or even make the machine BSOD (so much for WHQL). Sometimes a driver rollback (in device manager) was enough, sometimes you had to boot with last known good config or safe mode to even get to the desktop. I could live with that much, but nowadays MS has pushed 12+ updates as "important" that are simply nagware to install that Win 10 abomination so I've final

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Windows Updates only installs drivers if "Recommended updates" is enabled. It will never try to update drivers if you are only receiving critical/important updates.

        Samsung are a bunch of liars.

    • Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @02:29PM (#49980013) Journal
      It's especially insane because, while grabbing drivers from Windows Update is the default behavior, you can turn that off without disabling Windows Update.

      "System Properties" -> "Hardware" -> "Device Installation Settings". There's not even any registry grovelling or other esoteric nonsense involved.

      Things just get worse because, even if enabled, the Windows Update provided drivers will only be applied if no drivers are available locally(if drivers are available; but Windows Update has newer ones, they'll be listed as optional updates; but only installed with manual user intervention). So all Samsung has to do is add their drivers to the OS driver store (pnputil -a, not very hard) and the OS will apply them before even heading out to check for new ones, unless there is something egregiously wrong with them(if memory serves, unsigned drivers are treated as lower ranked than signed drivers when determining 'best driver available', and drivers that don't list the PCI/USB PID/VID, but have been forcibly applied, may also rank lower than drivers that do specify the matching PID/VID).

      So, in summary and conclusion, this whole thing is an unbelievable clusterfuck and it isn't even clear why Samsung would think it necessary in order to ensure the drivers that they want installed get installed; much less how they could possibly think that the security consequences were worth it. Only its finite complexity saves this situation from fractal stupidity.
  • Terrible twos (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Impy the Impiuos Imp ( 442658 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:11AM (#49976587) Journal

    Samsung: You're terrible programmers!

    Microsoft: No, you are terrible programmers!

    Kids, kids, you'really both terrible.

    • Re:Terrible twos (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @10:30AM (#49977877)

      The problem:
      Drivers to accommodate lack of open standards.
      Back in the good old day,
      CGA/EGA/VGA they followed their specs.
      Serial and Parallel they followed a common spec.

      Then Windows came popular with the support of drivers. This allowed hardware makers to stop playing by the rules thus creating a huge sets of incompatible SVGA (Visa more or less won) Then we went to 3D and all was lost. USB, different Wireless drivers.... Network cards...
      For some reasons allowing this is good, because it allowed them to innovate and create new features. But on the other side, it threw out the idea of Open Hardware standards out the window.

      Because the lack of such good standards, It creates systems that have driver issues.

  • Wow ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:12AM (#49976589) Homepage

    So, basically they have shit hardware or shit drivers, and the only way they can think of to fix this is to prevent your operating system from trying to apply updates?

    This sounds like incompetence all the way around, and is on-going proof of why I hate OEM laptops. Because they fill them with so much garbage.

    It seems like every time I hear anything about Samsung, I find myself thinking "nope, I would never buy their crap".

    And, once again, corporations put their own crappy "innovation" ahead of the needs of their customers.

    Pathetic.

    • by Bengie ( 1121981 )
      And to think, their hardware is still better than most out there. They still get the fewest complaints on NewEgg for much of their stuff for a reason. Their appliance like hardware anyway, SSDs, monitors, etc.
      • Re:Wow ... (Score:5, Funny)

        by rjmx ( 233228 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:55AM (#49976973)

        > They still get the fewest complaints on NewEgg for much of their stuff for a reason

        The reason being that nobody can keep one of them running long enough to file a complaint?

      • And to think, their hardware is still better than most out there.

        If there hardware requires weird non-standard drivers and disabling updates to work then it is by definition crap hardware. Maybe the hardware is fine and they are incompetent at software but that is not the most likely explanation. There would be no reason to disable Windows Update if the hardware worked as expected.

        They still get the fewest complaints on NewEgg for much of their stuff for a reason.

        Popularity and an alleged low number of complaints on NewEgg hardly constitutes proof of quality. If we are going by anecdotes the few pieces of Samsung hardware I've owned have been pretty

    • This sounds like incompetence all the way around, and is on-going proof of why I hate OEM laptops. Because they fill them with so much garbage.

      You mean OEM Windows laptops.

    • Re:Wow ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @10:38AM (#49977965) Journal

      This one is completely on Samsung.

      There is nothing stopping them from getting WHQL certification of their OEM drivers and submitting them to Microsoft. If their drivers are written properly (with proper hardware identification strings for PCI / USB / ACPI devices) then they will apply before generic drivers, and this isn't even a problem.

      Funny how we don't hear about this from Acer / Dell / HP / Lenovo / etc...

      • There is nothing stopping them from getting WHQL certification of their OEM drivers and submitting them to Microsoft. If their drivers are written properly (with proper hardware identification strings for PCI / USB / ACPI devices) then they will apply before generic drivers, and this isn't even a problem.

        PCI is the only bus type you listed that includes OEM information embedded in the device identifier (using the subsystem VendorID). USB doesn't, and for the most part, neither does ACPI.

        Additionally, OEMs don't typically certify device drivers through WHQL. It is usually the IHV that certifies the component/driver, and the OEM certifies the system consisting of components from different IHVs.

  • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:14AM (#49976623)

    If true then I guess I won't be buying any Samsung computers anytime soon. A company that stupid simply isn't worth doing business with. Add this to the Samsung TVs that listen to your living room [cnet.com] and the bloatware on their Android devices and I pretty much can't see any reason to buy from Samsung these days.

  • Yes, this is ugly situation, but I am curious if this is caused by non-compliant hardware or driver's issue?
    • by jones_supa ( 887896 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:32AM (#49976771)

      I can think of two solutions on how to solve this problem.

      1) Pin the installed OEM drivers, so that Windows understands that no other drivers should be installed for these device IDs.

      or

      2) In the PCI device ID, add extra information that this device is a special Samsung variant, and then Windows knows that the generic driver for that device is not compatible.

      I'm not sure if these solutions are possible, if someone knows more then please let me know.

      • by Khyber ( 864651 )

        You're missing the third option.

        3. Tell Microsoft to quit forcing THEIR drivers on hardware. Trying to get IGPs to install is a pain in the ass. Default WDDM drivers for Vista/7 on an Intel 945GM IGP do not provide OpenGL support, and would not let me instal the actual Intel drivers w/OpenGL support citing "Microsoft's drivers are newer."

        • Yeah, I also noticed that 945GM drivers from Windows Update do not seem to have OpenGL support. :) Although it would still be just OpenGL 1.4 with some extensions.
      • I can think of two solutions on how to solve this problem.

        1) Pin the installed OEM drivers, so that Windows understands that no other drivers should be installed for these device IDs.

        or

        2) In the PCI device ID, add extra information that this device is a special Samsung variant, and then Windows knows that the generic driver for that device is not compatible.

        I'm not sure if these solutions are possible, if someone knows more then please let me know.

        So IOW, do what Samsung should have done at the OEM level, right?

  • Uhhhh (Score:4, Informative)

    by The MAZZTer ( 911996 ) <megazzt.gmail@com> on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:16AM (#49976643) Homepage
    *cough* [microsoft.com]
  • by Sun ( 104778 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:17AM (#49976659) Homepage

    This is not malicious. It is stupid and ignorant, but not malicious.

    This reminds me of when someone got Verisign to issue a signed certificate saying "microsoft.com". Clearly Verisign, and not MS's, fault.

    It turned out Microsoft could not issue a revocation, because Internet explorer does not check CRLs. MS's fault, right? Wrong. They were not testing CRLs because verisign would not bring up the web server that issues them, causing each and every SSL connection to time out. MS preferred, reasonably IMHO, to be insecure over not working.

    Shachar

    • by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:59AM (#49977017) Journal

      This is not malicious. It is stupid and ignorant, but not malicious.

      Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

      --Clark's corollary to Hanlon's Razor [rationalwiki.org] after Clarke's 3rd Law

    • This is not malicious. It is stupid and ignorant, but not malicious.

      This is like selling a house without fuses in the electric circuits. Everything works, but is dangerous to use.

      • by Sun ( 104778 )

        You have to follow the money.

        User doesn't update. User gets hacked. How much did user cost Samsung? Nothing.

        Use updates. Drivers stop working. User calls Samsung tech-sup. Possibly, user gets told to restore machine, costing user all of their data. User posts bad reviews.

        The economy of the matter is that sometimes the drivers mismatch (I'm not sure why this happens) or otherwise fail to work properly. Samsung has very little influence over what drivers get pushed through the update mechanism. When the drive

    • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @09:54AM (#49977543)

      This is not malicious. It is stupid and ignorant, but not malicious.

      Sufficiently large values of stupidity asymptotically approach maliciousness. In other words if the action is dumb enough there is no effective difference.

    • It is exactly the same. Someone wants to do something stupid and doesn't realize it criples security.

  • by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:20AM (#49976683)

    Disabling windows update - at least automatically - is a good idea.

    It kept installing that reminder about Windows 10 coming soon.

    I don't want Windows 10 - I hear it disables some critical software (Solitaire)

    • Disabling windows update - at least automatically - is a good idea.

      Maybe for a corporation with an IT staff. If you are like me and have to support small numbers of technologically illiterate people then automatic updates are a blessing. Otherwise those machines would literally never get updated. Ever.

      Though honestly as the designated family techie the best thing (for my sanity) I ever did was move my parents to Apple products. Not so much because I think they are inherently better but they do result in less tech support problems (for me) and I got them support contrac

  • by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:24AM (#49976713) Homepage Journal

    I've lost track of how many times I've been burned by a driver update from Microsoft that turned out to be incompatible with my hardware, likely because Windows Update misidentified my hardware as compatible with the driver. I no longer install any drivers through Windows Update, but instead go to the vendors sites and get them straight from the source.

    Fortunately, the drivers are always optional updates, so you can just flag them as hidden and ignore them.

  • by davidwr ( 791652 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:52AM (#49976939) Homepage Journal

    It would've been far simpler and less controversial for Samsung to just turn off the Windows 8/10 equivalent of Windows 7's "[right click on your computer's icon]->Device Installation settings->Do you want Windows to download driver software and realistic icons for your devices" option in the "Devices and Drivers" control panel and provide their own "driver update" program. I don't have a Samsung, for all I know, they may already have a "driver update" program. I know at least 2 major Windows-PC vendors do have their own "update" programs that include alerting users when their drivers are out of date, and it wouldn't surprise me if Samsung was doing the same.

    Given what Samsung is doing, if Samsung provides its own "Samsung Update" that (by default) automatically takes all critical Microsoft Updates and which at least gives the user the option of taking vetted non-critical updates (or even better all Windows updates EXCEPT conflicting driver updates) AND keeps this running as long as Microsoft continues to allow access to its "Windows Update" functionality (which is presumably longer than the "10 years" it promises to keep fixing security holes) then I can see this being "not all that dangerous." However, if they do this they need to make it VERY clear to the buyer that Samsung, not Microsoft, is taking responsibility for keeping the operating system up to date.

  • My Samsung Laptop (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MPAB ( 1074440 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @08:57AM (#49976989)

    I bought a Samsung laptop. i5, 6gb ram, Hybrid NVIDIA and Intel graphics, 750gb HDD, DVD burner. It is light, well powered and cost efficient back in 2011. Windows 7-64 bit. Problem is: Even the keyboard hotkeys such as screen brightness, WiFi, etc. work only through a "Control panel" that takes ages to load. Volume keys don't work within a game and sometimes the trackpad stops working after sleeping. And also I don't dare installing Linux on it because I read about severe cases of linux bricking the UEFI and rendering the laptop completerly useless.

    Alas, after you start it up (either from off or sleeping) and wait the 10-15 minutes for the HDD to calm down (after stripping down the startup, defragmenting, ccleaner and the such) it runs really well.

  • by davydagger ( 2566757 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @09:15AM (#49977181)
    Linux might have some slight incompatiblity with an ever shrinking list of now obscure hardware. But when it works, it works. There is nothing this fucked up about linux drives. At worst, a few of them simply don't have the features we'd like, but nothing catastrophic.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nvm ( 3984313 )
      Linux driver have come a long way. 15 years ago it was a nightmarish hell 10 years ago hell. 5 years ago, mostly with wifi not working out of the box and often sound. nowadays it usually just works. The next battle is better video driver, firmware blob included in some device, and anything ARM.
    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      And most* Linux updaters allow the locking of individual components. So if my hardware requires some non standard tweaked up driver, I can fix it so that it won't pull down a 'standard' driver and bork my system.

      *As far as I know. I've not encountered one that didn't support this level of granularity.

  • Years ago I learned never to trust MS with hardware updates. Don't know how many times a graphic card or lan update from them pretty much disabled the graphics card or lan.

  • If only... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by chrish ( 4714 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @09:32AM (#49977371) Homepage

    I could have sworn MS had some way for OEMs to get drivers certified, and provided by Windows Update directly...

  • by Minwee ( 522556 ) <dcr@neverwhen.org> on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @09:34AM (#49977383) Homepage

    Surely there must be a way to have avoided this.

    Maybe Microsoft should set up some kind of... Lab. To certify the Quality of Hardware for Windows. And maybe they could make it really simple for vendors like Samsung to send them copies of drivers for certification so that Windows Update would be aware that they existed.

    And maybe, instead of demanding millions of dollars in fees for this service, they could charge something simple up front like just $250 and then not cause any more problems. Then Samsung would have been able to run through a quick certification process and avoided all of this trouble.

    Man, why does Microsoft make it so hard for vendors to get their devices supported?

  • Boy, this takes the cake.

  • by Megol ( 3135005 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @11:30AM (#49978397)

    I had to disable some drivers from updating to keep my computer running. The drivers installed automatically were not only older, they didn't work for my configuration. For most end users an automatically installed update making their computer non-bootable is a huge problem.

    That said there have to be a better way to do this, what about a mechanism where an OEM can declare some drivers untouchable for Windows update? Or even making the hardware manufacturers/device driver writers use the existing hardware detecting mechanisms correctly?

  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @11:37AM (#49978455)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by nuckfuts ( 690967 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @12:31PM (#49978977)

    Driver updates offered via Windows Update are always listed as "optional". Even with automatic updates enabled they would have to be chosen manually before they would be installed. On top of that, it would be easy to uninstall such an update via "Progams and Features" in Control Panel, or to click on "Roll Back Driver" in Device Manager.

    Disabling updates to prevent bad driver installations is both misguided and unnecessary.

  • by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @05:15PM (#49981179)

    The real problem is that the systems contain hardware that isn't compatible with the standard Windows drivers yet is still showing up in a way that Windows will think it is and will pull drivers via Windows Update.

    USB (even USB 3.0) is a documented standard that is supported out-of-the-box by Windows (and is likely part of the Intel chip-set they are using in the laptop), why would it need special drivers?

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