Microsoft Releases Windows 10 IoT Core For Small, Embedded Devices 123
An anonymous reader writes: One of the more interesting aspects of Microsoft's Windows 10 push is their desire to see it running on hobbyist hardware platforms. Today they released Windows 10 IoT Core for the Raspberry Pi 2 and the MinnowBoard Max. They say, "Windows 10 IoT Core is a new edition for Windows targeted towards small, embedded devices that may or may not have screens. For devices with screens, Windows 10 IoT Core does not have a Windows shell experience; instead you can write a Universal Windows app that is the interface and "personality" for your device." Microsoft has posted a list of release notes for this version, calling out improved support for Python and Node.js, significantly improved GPIO performance, and more electronics support for breakout boards. Under a heading cheekily named 'Developers, Developer, Developers,' they lay out their plan for language support and provide a code sample.
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You mean the track record of not being significantly broken into since Windows 7?
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You mean the track record of not being significantly broken into since Windows 7?
Unless you count a remote code execution exploit [microsoft.com] that was patched last month. Seriously, if you think Windows is secure, you just haven't been paying attention to the vulnerabilities. They're doing better than the days of Nimda and Code Red, but that's not saying much.
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In that instance "most Linux systems" actually means "very few".
The media loves Linux flaws and will exaggerate them extensively. Linux flaws are novel.
Windows flaws are like shootings in the US - no one bats an eye any more.
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That's the fun thing about plural words. They can mean anything between 2 and a gazillopetainfinigoogolplex.
For 2014 [gfi.com], it seems that despite Microsoft's reputation and much larger marketshare, there were many fewer vulnerabilities in Windows than competing products. (And no, you can't just sum the numbers for different Windows versions, most are the same vulnerabilities that existed across versions.)
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I wonder how many critical flaws the *AHEM* new "user free" web services will bring to the table.
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Windows 10 embedded just like XP embedded will be abandoned in the future and every company that relied on it will be forced to replace perfectly functional hardware and software.
FUD. Microsoft provided free support for XP for 13 years. And if you want to keep support you can continue to receive support for another few years if you're willing to pay for it just costs money. Show me a Linux distribution with 15 years of free support. Long term support for Linux generally means 10 years.
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Yip, XP Embedded is supported until 2020.
Re:Security (Score:5, Informative)
There are millions of ATMs and other embedded windows XP machines out there languishing as unsupported because they trusted Microsoft. Millions of ATM's and other embedded computer devices will be replaced not because they need to be, but because the operating system running them is no longer supported.
You are aware that Windows XP Embedded is still supported and receiving security patches to this very day, yes?
XP Embedded was released in November 2001 and extended support does not end until January 12th 2016.
In fact if you love living life further over the edge than just using XP, it is possible to hack up XP Pro to use XP Embedded security patches - though obviously even more at-your-own-risk than ever.
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Not to mention Win32 is still supported in Windows 10. If you have ATM software, it's not horrifically painful to update your drivers and transition to another OS that will still probably run your existing code without even recompiling for another 15 years.
It's also further bullshit because while I am aware those ATMs exist, no big name bank is still using their code unmodified from 2001. The new interfaces on Chase and Bank of America ATMs is quite modern and full of features that weren't options in 200
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Who needs their track record on security when you've got a proven track record with abandoned embedded software? There are millions of ATMs and other embedded windows XP machines out there languishing as unsupported because they trusted Microsoft. Millions of ATM's and other embedded computer devices will be replaced not because they need to be, but because the operating system running them is no longer supported.
Any company with an ounce of care about the future would NOT use Microsoft for any embedded application. Windows 10 embedded just like XP embedded will be abandoned in the future and every company that relied on it will be forced to replace perfectly functional hardware and software.
The funny part is the embedded market frequently sees device lifetimes that far exceed Microsofts support timeframes and yet they continue to get business in the embedded marketplace. The only viable operating system for embedded systems is Linux or maybe one of the BSD's. Everything that's not FOSS will be abandoned long before the device lifetime is reached.
The funny part about the equation is that IBM would go dead dog in the middle of the road if it were not for the fact that they have huge amounts of accounts supporting a butt tonne of windows xp run atms, workstation desktops and who knows what else where ever.
In Canada the bank of Nova Scotia saves millions by using old desktops running XP long past the eol of the OS. So do many other major institutions.
Got really bad news for all the Microsoft shills here on Slashdog, XP is no where near dead it surviv
Audio codecs (Score:3)
I've played Halo 2 on my PlayStation [pineight.com] and Halo 5 [wikipedia.org] on my Dreamcast. Whether you can play them on RPi2 depends on what audio codecs Windows 10 IoT Core supports.
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I've played Halo 2 on my PlayStation [pineight.com] and Halo 5 [wikipedia.org] on my Dreamcast. Whether you can play them on RPi2 depends on what audio codecs Windows 10 IoT Core supports.
Ok my last reply got modded down as a troll. But here is the whole story, the core kernel used in win 10 is very good indeed. BUT and this is a very big one, hardware support is slowly cutting out anything over 5 years of age. The WDDM 1.1 support is very limited so things like most of atom chips from 2010 are being axed. Good luck getting a pi to run directx 11 let alone 12. I am sure that pi is not going to compete with the Xbox ecosystem so essentially it will take a complete freeze over in hell before M
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People already use Windows to build embedded systems. I don't know why they do that to begin with, but this will surely keep some of them from jumping ship.
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True, but they were differnt Windows, or rather true Windows. WinCE, Win XP-Embedded, even Win3.11 was available for devices until a few years back.
This Windows10 for Embedded is like WindowsRT for ARM CPUs which was largely abandoned by Microsft themselves, and the hardware was written off for a few billions.
The traditional VB style apps and the huge library of VB plug-ins for devices and peripherals do not wxist in Windows 10 anymore. All device developers have long jumped ship to the Raspberry Pi, and th
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please be sure and report back on your findings, since you are an ac, it will be easy to know it is you reporting back and not some other random shill.
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Better an anonymous shill than a butt-hurt shit pile such as yourself.
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so much anger, and over a simple request...
Are you paid per insult or per post and just needed to fill you "angry response" quota for the day? I checked and you have a quite a number of angry posts, are you also an angry driver that uses his horn and tailgates a lot? Does it impress your boyfriend and make him all excited or does it mortify him and he wishes you would stop?
Or is it that you are over due for a session of the needful?
Or worse yet, did you try to write an app and failed? Was it you? Was it
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Visual Studio.
After working with Kiel for a while I learned to really like Visual Studio.
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Some people working on embedded systems have day-jobs working with the Microsoft stack. I would wager a guess that a fair number of them would rather not bother with Java or Python when they already know C# and F# and are already familiar with the tooling in a way that no hobbyist would ever be. Personally, I fall into that category. I work with C# daily (and F# occasionally). I've done some Arduino stuff and have played around with the Raspberry Pi. But my familiarity with C#, F#, Visual Studio, and Window
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RTFA - "This means full support for the standard UWP languages like C++, C#, JS and VB, but it also means bringing support – including full tools, debugging, and project systems – for Node.js and Python."
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it also means bringing support – including full tools, debugging, and project systems – for Node.js and Python."
That stuff is running quite well under raspbian, relatively mature code. What would be the point of running node.js or python on a very buggy beta release of an operating system when you can do the same thing on a mature stable system? You will find bugs, you will report them, the whole thing will slow you down, and you will be doing Microsoft's QA job for them and getting paid nothing for it.
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I'm gonna take a cue from my fellow AC, cut the fanboyism.
what's the problem, i'm sure it will be an interesting platform when the release notes are not chock full of "this isn't working correctly yet"
Re:Lipstick on a pig! (Score:5, Insightful)
Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
This is the play by MS to prevent all the ATMs, kiosks, and point of sale systems that still run XP/Vista/7 from getting replaced with Linux solutions. There's already one airline running rPi+Raspian on their airport gate screens. And if you've been wondering how the hell Redmond has any chance of hitting their "1 billion Win10 devices" goal, this is the lion's share of it. No way they sell that many PC/Surface/Xbone/WinPhone units and get that many people to upgrade from 7 and 8.x.
MS has never cared about hobbyist developers, and they never will. Everything they do is from a B2B perspective.
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Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
You will get as much tech support as you pay for. pay nothing, get nothing.
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Pay nothing, get nothing. So you're saying its like Linux?
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That's only because, when it comes to Windows, you are an ignorant fuck. It's not something to be proud of.
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> Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
WinIoT requires the Pi2. Embedded system vendors will find that to be too expensive to deploy when they could use a PiA or compute module for Linux (or other) based systems.
I also note that IoT is free for the maker community (ie hobbyists). It does not say that it is free for deploying as part of products - Linux is. While IoT may be free to 'makers' they will require a full Windows 10 PC to do development while with Linux a Pi2 is all tha
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$35/unit retail is too expensive for embedded systems? Maybe some, but not for those where an old Windows is already deployed. There's a rPi B+ among the equipment in the box on my house that my ISP put there.
The true purpose of it is for embedded vendors to pay bulk for licenses for it, otherwise MS wouldn't bother at all (they really fear losing all the embedded markets to Linux). Win10IoT may be free to makers, but it serves them next to no purpose. The bone MS is throwing at makers has no marrow in
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These systems in my view are too big for IoT.
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These systems in my view are too big for IoT.
And yet they'll be exploited just as easily.
That's where I've started to draw the line: if it's a device that is easily exploited, then it's part of IoT. Yes, I'm aware that this means many mainframes are part of the IoT. Those are called "dessert."
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The very notion of anti-virus drives hobbyists away from Windows, because the hobbyist thinks he is in charge of the toys, and not some uncaring 800lb gorilla.
Until an exploit takes control of his toys away from him.
Professionals make mistakes that aren't always easy to see and some that are mighty hard to excuse. It happens whatever the language, programming tools or environment.
I think you can make a very good case for providing the amateur with a little hand-holding and protection.
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The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance. Did you forget that?
where's the freedom in running a closed source operating system? is microsoft paying you for your eternal vigilance?
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It is a nice change to see M$ playing catchup with Linux.
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If they support remote debugging using Visual Studio it will be enough to get a lot of people interested.
I love Linux but VS is a really good IDE.
"The next thing you will hear is the You do not need an IDE Emacs and gdb is good enough crowd."
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I just developed an embedded system on Open Embedded/Yocto. I don't know if I'll ever use Linux again after I can use Windows 10 IOT. Getting an embedded Linux customized and all of the necessary packages is a huge PITA. Compiling for that custom distribution image is an even larger PITA. I think I probably spent about 50% on my application and 50% on just pure bullshit trying to get it to run.
Having Visual Studio, a bullet proof build and deployment system, an easy remote debugging system and the abili
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Well, either you're on a standard platform say a raspi or any other one, and you don't need to recompile the whole operating system / gnu stdlib since there already is one ready and stable (raspian), or you're on a custom platform. In that case it's custom linux BSP (can be a pita) vs not supported, get lost. I'll take the first one.
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It sounds like you should have used a more standard/off the rack distro or you're forgetting that that degree of customization for Windows would be somewhere between just as much work to impossible.
qemu offers emulation for a number of CPUs if you need emulation. Another option is to do a more complete install on your target hardware to act as a development platform. GDB does remote debugging if you like. It's really not that hard to use a cross compiler. There are a wide variety pre-built that you can use
Re:Oh god ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Taking away the buzz word quotient, IOT is fine. Have appliances and devices that interact with one another in a clean, secure, interoperable way. That sounds great. I'd love more home automation and more safe interaction with the environment I walk through. The problems is nobody seems to talk to one another, they're horribly expensive, everyone's out to maximize the self-fullfilling non-existing profits in this space; all of which cripples any meaniungful adoption.
Just like 'cloud' before it, there was real meat behind the buzz, but it took time, open platform designs and simple integration before any real traction occurred in pushing LAN services into others' hosting.
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You neckbeards stuck in ca. 1997 amuse me to no end. Your tech knowledge is as dated as your "last laid on" date.
First, Windows is quite secure these days. Nothing's perfect, but it certainly will match mainstream Linux.
Second, it's not bloated at all. This is a small version specifically intended for IoT. They didn't take "Windoze" (as you probably still call it) 98 (the version you are probably most familiar with) and dump it on a USB drive, you ponce.
Intel Edison... (Score:2)
So what exactly is included? (Score:2)
So, what do they include, and what is the pitch? Best environment for
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Spies
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I'm tired of hearing "Windows 10 upgrade is free" from Microsoft fanboys. Not everyone is using Windows. And a lot of people are still using older versions like Windows XP.
From http://www.microsoftstore.com/... [microsoftstore.com]
Get Windows 10
Free upgrade available only to qualified devices currently running Windows 7, 8, or 8.1.*
For system builders or Mac users, buy the full version of Windows 10.
CAD$149.00 (Download or USB)
I don't call that free at all, so fuck off.
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A fanboy is usually someone who is blind to facts. Yes the upgrade is free but it's just that: an upgrade. In case you can't see it or can't scroll back up, my original comment was:
So in typical Microsoft fashion, it's free but basically "fuck you if you use Linux or OS X".
To which the AC replied:
Except windows 10 upgrade is free, Visual Studio Express is Free (even for production). Um.. have you tried developing windows programs in linux or OSX?
So I say "it's not free" and then someone replies with "the up
Internet Of Titans/things (IOT vs IOt) (Score:2)
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Currently I use Arduinos and compatibles for remote sensors and Pi2 for things I can get my hands on [near at hand time lapse, the garden, the house]. Yes, I could go to tailor made, but I don't need scale currently, so off the shelf is fine. I am looking
IoT won't take off with bloat. (Score:2)
With multiple "things" throughout a house, office, wherever, it does not make sense for all of them to be heavyweight processors (which I'm assuming a Windows IoT version will need). A Raspberry PI as a controller? Sure. The 100's of "things" it controls are also RPI level of power? Nope, not going to fly.
The problem with the IoT industry right now is that they are putting *waaay* too much computational power into controlling a thermostat (Nest). The power is not for controlling, sensing or communication,
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Those $1 devices are going to need to talk to a mothership to work properly though. The Philips lightbulbs do something like this (so I'm told) - you have a 'hub' that's actually on your wifi and it talks to the lightbulbs via proprietary RF. I can see that working quite well for quite a few things, and largely solves the problem of security on low powered devices - although requires the hub is properly secured.
The obvious next step is to have some sort of 'universal hub' that can talk to multiple little th
Shrink-wrapped light bulbs (Score:1)
....with a 40 page EULA.
Nope.
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...and works as bad as Ford's Sync.
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We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)...
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Nice trolling.
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Already most of the raspberry pi's I have seen people using
says the guy who works in a microsoft test lab
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Their sample code is copyrighted whether or not they put the notice in, you fucking useless waste of natural resources.