Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Microsoft Businesses Operating Systems Windows

How Microsoft Built, and Is Still Building, Windows 10 193

An anonymous reader writes with this Venturebeat story about how Windows 10 is different from previous versions because of the way it was designed, including 15 public preview builds, and how much work is still being done. Windows 10 for PCs arrived two weeks ago. Thankfully, we don't need to wait years to say this will be a Microsoft operating system release like no other. The most obvious clue is not the fact that Windows 10 was installed on more than 14 million devices in 24 hours, that you can get it for cheap or upgrade to it for free, nor even that it ships with a digital assistant and a proper browser. No, the big deal here is that Microsoft is turning its OS into a service, and that means as you read these words, it's still being built. For the next few years, we'll be getting not just Windows 10 updates and patches, but new improvments and features. This is possible because Microsoft built this version very differently from all its previous releases.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

How Microsoft Built, and Is Still Building, Windows 10

Comments Filter:
  • Did you get paid?` (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:17AM (#50315331)

    I hope you got money for running this advertisement, Slashdot.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:41AM (#50315465)
      idk, seems pretty relevant to me and not too much of an advertisement. Like it or not, Windows is the most important OS on the planet and the one most of us use in our day-to-day livelihood. This isn't the Linux Gazette, you know.
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Of course not, this is [linuxgazette.net], and it hasn't been updated in four years. I guess nothing of note has happened in the Linux world sine 2011.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:57AM (#50315533)

      As opposed to getting paid its users will soon be paying "very differently" than for previous versions of Windows(tm). They will be paying all the time.

    • With all this building and rebulding and rebuilding the rebuilding, could Microsoft please fucking release a functional Windows 10 version of the RSAT tools?

    • by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      If this is an advertisement it fails pretty hard. "Still being built" sure doesn't instill me with the notion this operating system is ready for me to use yet. Think I'll just keep using what I have for another six months or so at least.

  • The big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:17AM (#50315335)

    ...is that all the reasons to choose Windows 10 over the competition, i.e. that it was a desktop operating system rather than a cloud service which required you to give not the slightest shit about your privacy (you did nothing of consequence) and a fast, always-on Internet connection (and you worked nowhere interesting), have gone.

  • Nor even (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:20AM (#50315353)

    That's it's privacy nightmare for those with the inclination to give a damn.

  • since it's a service now we'll get to pay annually again and again instead of buying it once and having it 'til we're sick of it?

    • by The-Forge ( 84105 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:01AM (#50315929)

      How many times does it have to be repeated that are no annual fees for Windows 10?

      SERVICE != SUBSCRIPTION

      Examples:
      Steam = Service
      Salesforce = Subscription

      Figure it out already and quit spouting the nonsense.

      The reason for free Windows makes perfect sense. The cost of buying an upgrade has always made upgrades on existing hardware a very low number. So just give it away to end users since it doesn't make any money anyway. It's pretty well known 99% the of income for Windows comes from new PCs and enterprise agreements.

      If they try to turn around and start charging annually for Windows after this, piracy will shoot through the roof and patching will go through the floor as people will hack to get it free and stop Windows Update so their hacks won't get blocked. (Remember the Windows Genuine Advantage garbage from XP, that was a lesson learned) This would result in 2 black eyes that Microsoft doesn't want and would lead to increases for Mac, Linux or other alternative. 1st is customer ill will over "pay us or your PC stops" and the 2nd is from getting a reputation about Windows being buggy exploit ridden as a result of people not patching and updating.

      • Steam is a rather bad example considering that the main reason they give that client away is that is the vehicle to sell more software through it, and to give you the idea that it's easier and more convenient to buy your software through them than another venue.

        Where's the benefit for Microsoft to give away a system they can as well sell? TANSTAAFL, sorry, and twice so when a corporation is involved. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:22AM (#50316065)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Well Microsoft have said explicitly that you won't, so no.

        I think Microsoft is happy with the revenue from their "PC tax", the fact you'll have to buy a PC every few years to run modern applications should be enough to ensure they get roughly the same revenue from Windows as before. That said, they've also been giving Windows away for free on low cost devices lately, so they're obviously planning to tap into other revenue streams.

        Subscriptions for operating systems though? Nah.

        Microsoft has never given anything away for 'free'. The techies in the back room might come up with some really cool stuff, but the marketting wonks in the front office will override them. See Vista. The betas were chock full of cool stuff, like the first runs of the new replacement filesystem for NTFS. When deadline came, the marketting wonks declared the new fs wasn't ready for prime time and had the techies pull it and put NTFS back in. Every time they changed the specs, the techies had to revert and

    • by coofercat ( 719737 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:24AM (#50316079) Homepage Journal

      It's always been "a service" that's still being built. It's just that the rate of change was slower. If memory serves, NT4 only got good after Service Pack 4, XP after SP1 (or maybe 2), Windows Vista only got good when you upgraded it to Windows 7, and so it goes on. Windows 10 will stick around for a while, but in a year or two, they'll release a 'feature pack' or whatever they'll call it that'll get rolled into the initial install images and will make everything look and behave differently (but it'll still be Windows 10 - because this is the last windows ever - no, no need to worry about upgrades because it's all the same version, honestly).

      The only new thing, as you say, is that we'll be pestered to upgrade windows 7/8 forever and we'll end up paying constantly for Windows 10.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:24AM (#50315375)

    Windows 10 isn't "built very differently" from Windows 8. Microsoft has always had the attitude of "F' it, ship it, we'll fix it on the road." -- Now it's just a "service" so they can proudly say it. Gheesh...

    • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:48AM (#50315499) Homepage Journal

      FTFA:

      One of the big reasons it was even technically possible to deliver so many builds is because of the changes the Windows 10 team made to the build upgrading process. To be clear, the core upgrade mechanism was not new. This is the same in-place upgrade technology that is already available in Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 (ESD files have been enhanced, but theyâ(TM)re still largely the same).

      I learned that there were multiple new components, though, including targeting, pool management, registration, the insider channel, and so on. The most important new part is that the Windows 10 team was (and is still) able to offer a specific group of people a given set of builds, letting them do an in-place upgrade when a new build became available.

      That's right, it's a new feature that Microsoft is able to offer a specific group of people a given set of builds. You know, what all the Unix distributions we know have been able to do since time immemorial? You can even create your own builds. Just create a new repo and add it onto the end of the list, with newer versions of packages. Done! Microsoft physically couldn't do that until right now? That's pathetic, just like the rest of their package management functionality.

      • Also, don't forget that the 'in-place upgrade' entails downloading the entire new build and installing it, which is a far cry from upgrading just the changed components. Even the remarkably slow "We're setting up things for you" after logging in happened for every build.

        I had to remove the 'old windows version' and 'temporary install files' on my 60GB SSD convertible every time I installed a new build, as they sucked up a good 9GB of precious disk space.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • Christ. You're the second kid that is incapable of anything but retarded schoolyard replies I've encountered on Slashdot this week. I know it's a free internet and everything, but please grow the fuck up before you speak here.

            P.S. If you are actually mentally retarded, I am deeply sorry. I have wish your kind no harm or insult.

      • by tk77 ( 1774336 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:51AM (#50316257)

        And yet after all this time I still can't install/upgrade Windows directly to an external drive. I run it on a 2013 Mac Pro (yeah yeah Apple, trash can, whatever you want to get out of your system) on a ssd via thunderbolt. Every time I try to install or upgrade to the drive the windows installer insists that the volume won't be bootable and thus won't install. You have to perform the upgrade on the internal drive (which means for an upgrade, cloning the ssd back to the internal) then clone it to the external to boot. Which boots fine, by the way. Oh yeah, and if there are any other external drives plugged in, they have to be removed or the installer fails, which is annoying when the external drive is daisy-chained off another.

        Linux can directly install/upgrade to any drive on any bus. As can OSX. Why can't Windows do this after all this time?

        • Linux can directly install/upgrade to any drive on any bus.

          Not only that, but copying your Linux install to another volume and making it bootable is trivial and you can do the whole process without any reboots, except when you reboot into the copy and actually use it. With Windows you usually have to do a bunch of stuff, reboot into recovery mode, do some more stuff, and then reboot.

          • by tk77 ( 1774336 )

            Yep, and the same with OSX. Cloning bootable volumes to other drives is simple and can be done either with included command line tools or free gui apps. Backups bootable from any bus (thunderbolt, firewire, esata, usb2/3) made extremely easy.

      • Thats a pretty big deal when your on the hook for actually supporting what you release - at that volume - and maintaining compatibility.

        I was working at Adobe ages ago on testing Vista and they let us know the app compatibility toolkit shims (which you can google - its a rather fascinating framework) they were putting in for Acrobat Reader 3 and 4 - to work around a window sizing issue. Reader 3 originally ran on Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 and Reader 4 was really only intended for 95/98/NT/2000 - but both p

    • by jitterman ( 987991 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @01:01PM (#50317733)
      I'm curious, genuinely, as to why all the "@#$!% Windows!" posts are being so happily upvoted, while the ones that are rationally pointing out the upside to MS's new direction are seemingly being ignored. You would think, with all the bitching that is normally done here concerning closed versus open, overly expensive software versus free or low-cost alternatives, that people might actually stop with the automatic MS-hate and consider their stance anew.

      No software is EVER bug-free (own an Android phone? Enjoying all that perfection?); OSes are complex environments, and sometimes you just can not get every feature in place in a reasonable amount of time. At some point, you have to declare that you've reached a close of a phase of development. Despite our glee at the old "nah, that's a feature" joke, I don't think anyone honestly believes a company with as much money at stake as MS has really has a "screw it" attitude. They're a HUGE company, and for anyone who's ever worked in that sort of environment, you know that you actually have to marvel that any product at all EVER ships.

      In part, it is because no OS is ever perfect (you Mac users take a look back, and you'll remember how bad the OS really was years ago, and admit that it too has its own unique problems even today despite being dramatically improved) that MS has moved to this model - fixes to issues can hopefully happen more quickly, new features added sooner.

      Along with this new model of publishing Windows comes something else (relatively) new for MS - a new monetization method. For all the grousing about how old and lame the Redmond folks are, now that they are embracing the "freemium" model used by many mobile apps (ads for the free version, or pay to remove them) there's all the complaints for moving to the "new school" way of business. The second - and a little more understandable but I think still defensible in today's environment - complaint is privacy (mainly, the sale of your habits to merchants). First, while not easy for the newbie to do, 10 can be locked down fairly well (PC Mag has a decent article, and it's not the only one) [pcmag.com]; second, if you use Facebook, Twitter, or other social platform, or any search engine, you began giving up privacy the moment your fingers touched a keyboard. If your activities are highly illegal (not just minor film/music torrenting) and you haven't been caught, you're already not worried about this issue; for the average person, yes we don't like the idea of targeted ads and trending our preferences, but to say that there's a person sitting around looking at that data and saying, "Aha! Bob Smith, I *knew* you were into midget clown rodeos!" - well, that's just silly. The only privacy I really, honestly care about is banking, taxes, and when I watch porn - my wife is cool with that last part, but I don't want my kids to type something in only to have YouPorn instead of YouTube pop up. Local browsing, then, is still hidden from other "common" users on my machine, and if I choose to do things like bank on line, I simply have to hope and trust that the certs on the HTTPS connection the bank provides haven't been compromised. That's going to be true for any platform I use to do these things.

      I applaud MS for attempting to move in a new direction - it shows, finally, a willingness to change, even if there are missteps along the way. They will have issues with Windows, just as all other OSes do. They will piss people off from time to time. But to complain because they don't do something, then complain because they do? That's not proper criticism, it's just bias.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:24AM (#50315377)

    make; make install?

  • by jones_supa ( 887896 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:29AM (#50315401)
    Is the datamining crap turned off in the Enterprise edition of Windows 10?
    • by Anonymous Coward

      No, but you have more options to turn it off.

      You'll probably want to peruse the firewall rules after you are done turning off the dozen or so switches in the privacy settings screen and once you've combed through the gp settings.

      I solved the data mining issues by staying with Win 7. It is more than adequate for doing the things that I need Windows for.

      • No, but you have more options to turn it off.

        You'll probably want to peruse the firewall rules after you are done turning off the dozen or so switches in the privacy settings screen and once you've combed through the gp settings.

        I solved the data mining issues by staying with Win 7. It is more than adequate for doing the things that I need Windows for.

        Only thing I use Windows for these days is Kindle for PC. And once I figure out where they stash the serial number for it, I'll probably stop even using my XP under Virtualbox. See, I get a lotta books off Amazon, but I don't use a real live Kindle here, I pull the books down with Kindle for PC, run them through Calibre, and load them on my 'Ebay special' Aluratek reader. Some of those I gotta strip the DRM from in Calibre, and that takes the K4PC serial number.

    • Re:Datamining (Score:5, Informative)

      by wbo ( 1172247 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @09:05AM (#50315951)
      Actually the "datamining crap" you are referring to has been present since at least Windows XP if not earlier. Much of that data is what is used to help build compatibility shims that allow older applications to continue to run on newer OS versions. Also how else do you think that Microsoft has been able to gather data about the most popular screen resolutions, how much the start menu is/isn't used, etc?

      Other data (such as stack traces from crash reports) are often sent to the 3rd party developers in an attempt to identify the underlying cause of the crash and fixed it if it is the result of a software bug.

      Enterprise users can disable the reporting entirely via group policy or have the reports forwarded to their own internal server for private use. It is only the home editions that can't completely disable the crash reporting and telemetry features.
      • Funny. The only time you actually *WANT* Microsoft to receive your data is from crash reports, and then they don't actually do anything about the crash.
        • by 0123456 ( 636235 )

          Funny. The only time you actually *WANT* Microsoft to receive your data is from crash reports, and then they don't actually do anything about the crash.

          Ah, I remember the days before I turned off that crap, when a crash would result in the hard drive thrashing for two minutes creating a 'crash report'. Which is exactly what I wanted to happen when something crashed while I was in the middle of doing some work, preventing me from restarting the app to go back to what I was doing before the freaking thing crashed.

    • How hard would it be to crowdsource the IPs that the OS is pinging and blacklist them at the router level? Assuming they aren't the same servers used for Windows Update, of course. This seems a rather trivial problem to solve for anybody willing to spend a few minutes sniffing out the traffic.
  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @07:34AM (#50315429)
    Big news - learned from mistakes!
    I for one am very happy that the Win8 Metro shit is dead and buried, as well as the other things that we were told more than ten years ago "are already in Longhorn", but now are real instead of hype trying to one-up Apple.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    The content of your emails, your voice, your browsing history, everything you do with your PC is uploaded to Microsoft (and a copy goes to NSA too, of course). Every antivirus software would label Windows 10 as a spyware if it weren't made by Microsoft. And no, you cannot turn it off completely, Microsoft's bad faith is proven by the fact that the default settings are all anti-privacy, not to mention that you cannot be sure that a closed-source OS does what it says:

    http://arstechnica.com/informa... [arstechnica.com]

    • There had to be a reason this was a "free" upgrade. The reason is all the service-selling and information-spying you get with it.
      With 8 they stoppped making an OS for the users and started making one only for their interests
  • Microsoft is turning its OS into a service, and that means as you read these words, it's still being built.

    No, it means that Windows 10 is banana-ware: Not ripe at time of purchase.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    # Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and anonymity.
    It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship almost
    anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no trace unless you ask it to
    explicitly.

    # It is a complete operating system designed to be used from a DVD, USB stick, or SD
    card independently of the computer's original operating system. It is Free Software
    and based on Debian GNU/Linux.

    # Tails comes with several built-in applications pre-configured with securit

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Just can't stand Microsoft anymore... they are not developer focused anymore.

    They really began to annoy me with DRM, and the force feeding of Metro Dung in 8 and the worlds most annoying start menu in 10.

    Windows is not a tight environment either (like Mint 17.x) where you have full control on what runs on your PC... too much background activity in Windows. Probably data mining all our personal information for their marketing department.

    In fact they are so annoying, even free isn't tempting anymore - Linux M

  • by XB-70 ( 812342 )
    It kinda sounds as though Microsoft has embraced Open Source build methodologies.

    I love the virtual desktop feature - Didn't Linux have that like 20 yrs ago? Hmmmmm

    Hope there aren't any open source patent violations!

    • OK, I'm all up for a little Microsoft bashing where appropriate.

      But Microsoft had virtual desktops back in the XP days. It was a power tools download you had to get yourself, but it did in fact exist.

      And, yes, those of us who have been using virtual desktops for a long time can't see why we'd ever do without them.

  • by biomech ( 44405 ) on Friday August 14, 2015 @08:22AM (#50315679)

    For various reasons, I run multiple OS's. I was part of the recent wave of upgrades to WIN-10 because I have to anticipate what my accounting clients are going to run into when they upgrade which they tend to do without warning.

    I personally think MS is just assuming that people will run through the process without thinking much about privacy settings and security issues on the other side. I'm a wee bit OCD about that, but the public I try to work with isn't even when they're told to be careful. I'm still baffled by the number of systems I deal with that have either no antivirus or outdated versions, no firewall, etc. Let's face it, if MS gains marketing data in exchange for a "free" upgrade, most folks won't complain. What I'm also concerned about from a practical manner is the fact that various support builds are going to be pushed though without the option of deciding when to install meaning that various drivers that worked earlier are suddenly off in the ozone upon restart.

    There is also the matter of when, where, and how MS will acknowledge problems with the OS. For example, the Edge browser seems to have some real issues integrating with printing which simply aren't there when you switch back to IE-11 which fortunately hasn't been removed (yet), but only disappears from view.

    MS's view of the future which they've been fairly clear about is a device-spanning OS that they're going to drive and I think that's one of the main things to keep in mind with WIN-10.

    • I'd pay money to get a Windows 10 that was 7 with the internals improved but it seems that Microsoft is not interested in that. Maybe because it would make the regular Win 10 look too bad.
  • No, the big deal here is that Microsoft is turning its OS into a service, and that means as you read these words, it's still being built. For the next few years, we'll be getting ^H^H^H^H^H^H paying for not just ^H^H^H^H Windows 10 updates and patches, but^H^H^H whether or not there are new improvments and features. This is possible because Microsoft built this version very differently from all its previous releases.

    Of course it is a big deal. Once you see what is going to happen.

    • Especially a nice thing for home users and light version users. They can't turn off "updates", including the one that would brick it once the next version is out, and the current version is "end-of-life"d.

      No more the farce of forcing users to run on the upgrade treadmill. Just keep handing over the money.

  • WindowsME didn't have any of the problems I had with 10. All agile and always changing with privacy nightmares. Great corporate OS who like things never to change and pesky updates adding elements of uncertainty. Different alright to irrelevent.

  • I'm just glad they didn't totally abandon business customers. Running a constantly-changing OS is fine for a home machine that browses the web, makes Skype calls, and watches movies. It's even tolerable in some office situations where all the person is doing is Office documents with no systems interaction beyond email. When you build a software component on top of an OS, however, and come to rely on things working a certain way, that's where the Agile thing breaks down.

    The company I work for sells a suite o

    • by johnnys ( 592333 )

      '...a suite of middleware that relies heavily on some of the internals of Windows. Changing out anything is a risk that the product doesn't work as expected. '

      You need to FIX that. ITSec researchers are seeing more and more threats going forwards. Any product that locks an end user to a specific configuration with no updates allowed is a security nightmare waiting to happen.

      Devs have to accept and adjust to a world where every library and tool (Java, Oracle, Adobe, M$, etc.) is going to be updated at short

If all else fails, lower your standards.

Working...