Microsoft Now Uses Windows 10's Start Menu To Display Ads (betanews.com) 578
Mark Wilson writes: We've all become used to the idea of ads online — it's something that has become part and parcel of using the internet — but in Windows? If you've updated to build 10565 of Windows 10, you're in for something of a surprise: the Start menu is now being used to display ads. We're not talking about ads for Viagra, porn, or anything like that, but ads for apps. Of course, Microsoft is not describing them as ads; 'Suggested apps' has a much more approachable and fluffy feel to it. Maybe. This is a 'feature' that's currently only being shown to Windows Insiders, but it could spread to everyone else. Will it be well-received?
If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why it's "free". They're getting their money by selling you.
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a small side business (me and two other techs) doing Windows cleanup and upgrades of older systems still on XP over to XUbuntu. Since about 2011, we've done over 30 such systems, and in most cases, before the upgrade our phone number was on the customers speeddial, due to constant malware infestations.. We rarely hear from those folks anymore... Since Windows 10 has come out, we've had several customers who bought brandnew systems at a big-box store come to us and ask about what they'd heard about Windows 10 and its blabbing everything to MS... We showed them several traffic analysis done on an "uncastrated" copy of Win10. In both cases, the owners opted for us to install Linux on their systems. I told them that we *could* run some tools that would disable the especially blatant spying aspects, but there was ZERO assurance that MS would not come out with an update that would roll our "castration" back... Our recommendation was to stop using MS products if the customer had ANY concerns about privacy and Microsoft...
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Informative)
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Sounds like a problem to be solved via DNS Servers and Firewalls
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you mean "DNS Servers and Firewalls" in hardware or in software? If you meant in software, then Windows can go around it. If you meant in hardware, then good luck carrying "DNS Servers and Firewalls" with your Windows 10 laptop when you use public Wi-Fi.
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Sounds like a feature ISPs can provide:
[X] Disable ads in Windows
[X] Disable tracking in Windows
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like a feature ISPs can provide for just an extra $9.99 a month:
[X] Disable ads in Windows
[X] Disable tracking in Windows
I think you forgot a piece of your prediction.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
One more reason to relegate Windows to a VM guest position, if you really need to have it, while running Linux as the hardware supervisor...
Can Blue Coat MITM without installing a cert? (Score:3)
A Bluecoat device will seamlessly MITM any HTTPS for a corporate network.
Provided that Blue Coat's root certificate is trusted on all machines on the corporate network. The root certificate of some random public hotspot is unlikely to be in my certificate store.
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Insightful)
nah, problem solved by fresh install of dvd based win7, disable all bad updates (beyond a certain date) and disable update mechanism entirely.
that also means that win systems can't be directly on the net and even allowing them access to the net is not very smart anymore.
whee! its like win95 and win98 days, where every windows box is, by definition, unsafe on a LAN or WAN.
we had a few years in the middle where it was good to enable updates and windows was starting to show some maturity in the computer market. not any more. MS has gone back to its truly evil ways and - funny enough - its starting to make apple look good in comparison! wow, just wow.
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That has been true going back at least as far as Win98. Microsoft hard coded IPs for many of the update functions for obvious reasons.
Re:If you did not pay for the product, you are one (Score:5, Insightful)
Does this apply to Linux too?
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Is the ad tied to a live tile for the store? Most app stores showcase apps in their store app and Live Tiles show updated info......so I would suspect that these "ads" are really just the store live tile showing the content. [I haven't read the article and I'm not running the update.]
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You can avoid being a traded commodity, but it's getting harder these days.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yet (Score:5, Insightful)
We're not talking about ads for Viagra, porn, or anything like that, but ads for apps.
First displaying some app advertisements is a nice slippery slope to later transform it to a vehicle delivering all sorts of advertisements.
Re:Yet (Score:5, Insightful)
Not surprising. Had to install Win10 yesterday to test compatibility with some legacy software. What a complete and utter clusterfuck. The amount of telemetry/spying intrusion that Microsoft expects users to accept without question is...staggering. Just trying to keep the firewall and defender off was a major endeavor. And travel/sports/etc. embedded in the OS I paid for to generated revenue via tracking? Facepalm.
And that's the thing, they could have tons of spyware by default and those stupid enough to allow the spying deserve what they get. The problem is automatically turning everything back on after I've made the choice to turn it off/uninstall. And that includes the whole force-fed updates issue.
My humble prediction is that Win10 is going to get much worse beyond just injecting ads into the start menu. So much so that even Aunt Sally is going to get the willies. Most of us know how oblivious Aunt Sally is to this stuff so that will be an accomplishment.
And what will Microsoft do in response? Make up some official sounding names (like WGA) and try to stuff even more shit down the throats of anyone stupid enough to use the OS.
Having said all that, they're obviously testing the waters to see how much shit people will eat then back off. The problem is that there are real alternatives now for the consumer, not like back in the monopoly days.
Bitch about the arrogance of Apple all you want. Microsoft is way worse, they taking coupling arrogance with incompetence to whole new level.
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Sooooooo nice to see somebody else who sees Win10 for what it is... I moved all my systems over to Linux when I retired in 2010... Could'nt be happier..
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I would absolutely agree that Windows 10 should not be a server platform... but then again, it is not meant to be.
I have seen the Server 2016 platform yet but I am pretty sure that all of this marketing id and telemetry stuff will not be included.
Windows 10 IS the same thing as iOS and Android... it is Microsoft's unified platform that runs on all devices whether it has big monitors and lots of peripherals attached or is tiny and has a touch screen.
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You see a very bleak future, my friend.
The future I envision is having Tony Stark's Jarvis personal assistant program open-sourced and running on my personal home Linux cluster behind a firewall with all of my devices connected locally or remotely through that interface... most likely all Linux devices. The computing power is mine, the data is mine, the agent that collects my preferences and conducts searches runs locally and for me, not some third party that wants to sell my information or could get easi
Watch out, you might catch systemd. (Score:3, Insightful)
The ads are the least of your worries.
Someone will find an exploit (maybe an intentional function put there "just for testing/troubleshooting/essential updates") and the shit will really hit the fan.
How come THEY always get all the cool stuff? (Score:5, Funny)
It'll be years before XFCE gets this. By the time we get ads, everyone else will be all "yeah whatever, anachronistic loser."
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Well, I'm glad I belong to this staggeringly low minority, and hope that people like you will continue to use Windows forever. :-)
Re:How come THEY always get all the cool stuff? (Score:5, Insightful)
You make it sound like constantly living the nightmare makes us numb to it, no longer suffering because we don't have feelings. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Day in, day out, all I dream of is to some day be able to own a computer that works for other people instead of me. There the damn thing is, awaiting my command, putting me on a pedestal! Sometimes I just want to scream, "Computer, where do you want to go today?! Don't you want to send some spam, or mine some bitcoins to make someone else richer? I'll pay for the electricity. Show me some fucking ads already (I swear, I'll pay for the bandwidth!), so that when I spend time at work, I'll know that there's a purpose to passing away years of my only life at the office: to make the money to give to someone else to buy some garbage that I don't really want, so it can take up more space in my unwanted hoard."
But no, the damn thing is all about me, me, ME! I can't stand it! It's like this fucking codependent computer has no life of its own, and exists on nothing but fulfilling my desires, like some kind of TOOL that I .. I .. (ugh) that I own! It's like I have some kind of mindless robot slave!
"Used to" it." Fuck you, dude! Put yourself in my shoes, in a social situation. There's all these people laughing and having a great time, big smiles on their faces telling exciting tales about the conniving backstabbers on their desks and in their pockets. "OMG, everything is full of ads," they say with a mirthful chuckle, and they all get to nod along in solidarity and comradeship. Then I have to fucking stare cluelessly and therefore stick out like a sore thumb, obviously "one of them" and no longer cool. Or I can fake it, nod and agree, and die a little more inside.
"It got pulled from the app store," they say. I have to pretend I know what the fuck that means or else be alienated yet again.
"It wants me to enter the license and I can't find the package," they say. I'm not sure what entering a license means, but they've phrased the problem well enough that it includes the solution, right? So I wonder: Why don't they just refresh the package from the repo? I might be inclined to suggest that, carefully being neutral and noncommittal so they won't realize that I haven't yet figured out whether the package is a deb or rpm. But go ahead, just try saying that once and see the stares you get, where suddenly everybody knows that you're heavily behind the times.
It's not just social situations, either. Imagine me at an office, hearing "Oh, I can't run that one, because it requires polar lion or bigger, but I only have hill tiger." I don't know what all this technical Felix jargon means, just that some guy doesn't get to do what he wants to do, because he isn't typing apt-get dist-upgrade every two years. He gets to talk about cats all day whereas I have to do my job (to get the paychecks that I don't even know what to spend on), because I'm behind the times.
Ribbons. What the fuck were ribbons? Everyone was talking about them a few years ago, but now no one mentions them. Is this going to be another one of those "the spoon is a lie!" things where I finally get to have a ribbon in the 2022 release and when I go around telling everyone how awesome it is, they look at me like I'm some kind of drunk caveman?
Vistas? Everyone says they suck but they're not specific. That's some kind of MSSQL version of views, right? Other than being nonstandard, I don't know why they'd be so hated, but maybe some say I'll find out when they add it to postgresql.
I'm so heavily behind the times, I couldn't even keep up with the early-21st-century shorthand people were using to paraphrase everything. i.e. I'm totally out of touch with culture and language. I learned some of it
Sure we had ads ... (Score:2, Funny)
... but not in our dreams!
Cannot reproduce (Score:5, Informative)
Updated both my desktop and my laptop to build 10565 and am not seeing those suggested apps.
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Are you trying to be reasonable again? Look, with your UID, you should know better.
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Personalization, start, "Occasionally show suggestions...". Off by default for me. But I can turn ON. And it appears. How dare MS let me turn on an option for ads!!!
It was ON by default for me, though I don't recall having seen any suggestions (yet?).
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It looks like you have to be signed in to the Microsoft app store to see them.
Microsoft has started being a bit shitty with ads lately. I used to have OneNote for Android installed, but every time it updated it would generate a spam notification. The normal blocking mechanism didn't get rid of it, so I uninstalled.
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I definitely am signed in. Seems that "occasional" means "rarely if ever" for me :)
Re:Cannot reproduce (Score:5, Funny)
Big data says your a cheapskate and not worth the effort.
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Microsoft has set an unfortunate precedent with this sort of thing with their Xbox consoles. I own a 360, and about 2/3 of the real estate is taken up by advertisements, and they're even shoving ads during listings and search results in-between things you're trying to find. It's sort of disgusting. Honestly, it's one of the reasons I'm still not on the next gen consoles, and am leaning more towards a PS4 first, even though I vastly prefer the Xbox controller.
I'm using Windows 10 right now, but I'm keepin
Simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net]
It's free. I installed it when I got tired of the Win10 start menu lag (if you press the start key and begin typing, the Win10 start menu will delay opening just long enough to miss one or two keystrokes).
Classic Start Menu (Score:2)
Ability to disable feature (Score:5, Insightful)
Hypocrites. (Score:5, Informative)
Hypocrites. [windowscentral.com]
Speak for yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
We've all become used to the idea of ads online
It's pretty obvious that many of us are not used to the idea, and block them completely.
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In the future, you'll just need to get an ad blocker for your operating system. Since secure boot will be mandatory and you won't have permission to alter the start menu, it will be a piece of black tape.
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Hear hear! I will NOT tolerate ads online, and I certainly won't tolerate them on my own damned PC desktop.
Games, sigh (Score:2)
Not so different from XBox (Score:5, Informative)
Anyone who's a gamer has seen this enough that it's become invisible. The XBox Dashboard is ~50% user-space and 50% new product promotion.
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That's why my XBox 360 got disconnected from the network, and why I'll never own an XBone.
Suddenly my video games had ads inside of them. Sorry, not interested.
My XBox 360 got disconnected from the network, and has never been connected since. And unless they've significantly changed the new version, it sounds like you need either a constant or a frequent internet connection. In which case I don't want one.
I don't want a gaming console with an internet connection if it means ads and analytics. And if our
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No they don't because I don't just roll over and take whatever is handed out like you do.
Do you have any credit or debit cards? A bank account? Reward cards?
A cell phone?
A modern vehicle?
Do you have Internet at home with computers connected to it?
Do you use a DVR box to watch TV with (TiVo, cable company, Dish, etc.)?
Then you already have given the big information companies a huge volume of information about you without even knowing it.
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Except that's the *point* of Steam. It's primary reason for existing is to sell games. This is how it's been since it first came to existence.
I've never had an xbox so I dunno what the point of the dashboard is, but to complain about Steam doing what it was designed to do is just silly.
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When you launch steam there is usually a popup showing what the latest deals are that you have to dismiss. There might be a way to turn it off though. Other than that, yeah, if you are on your library page: no ads.
Just in time for... (Score:2)
Can be disabled (Score:5, Informative)
For the moment, at least, you can turn this off. Indeed, you can turn off more of the Windows 10 start menu nastiness than is initially apparent and get back to something fairly civilised without third party addons. For now.
In its current form, it's not completely catastrophic even if you don't disable it. It's significantly less intrusive than the advertising you get on the top-level menus on the PS4, Wii-U and, in particular, Xbox One.
The worry, of course, is about the slippery slope. Look at how advertising has flooded over the menus on the Xbox series:
- Basically absent on the original Xbox and the first-gen Xbox 360 UI.
- Present but subdued on the second-gen 360 UI.
- Completely dominant on the third-gen 360 UI (at the cost of useful navigation features that were present in the second-gen).
- A major presence on the Xbox One.
Actually, now I'm wondering whether my ability to disable the advertising in Win10 has been because I'm both on Professional rather than Home and on an OEM license purchased with a new PC rather than a free upgrade. Anybody applied this patch on the Home edition or a free upgrade yet?
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when you run the upgrade on windows 7 pro you get windows 10 pro for free.
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I know, but with Microsoft's apparent determination to explicitly place different value on different users this time around (eg. on the ability to defer upgrades), I was wondering whether there was any kind of differentiation between "free upgrade" and "purchased OEM license" Win10 Pro users.
Nothing would surprise me any more.
Re:Can be disabled (Score:4, Insightful)
"For now" is the key term here.
Microsoft has set a very bad precedent with this, and I don't see it improving anytime soon. All of their other privacy invading features are on by default, and some of which *cannot* be shut down unless you are using the enterprise version (cause if Microsoft tried to pull the same stunt against big business, they'd be sued into oblivion)
This whole situation is absolutely BEGGING for a class action lawsuit. Once again, Microsoft is abusing their monopoly status for their own gain.
Looks like the new boss really is just like the old boss.
thank Google/android (Score:2)
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then buy redhat linux, Debian, Slackware, or a BSD variant.
Microsoft has never respected your privacy.
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then buy redhat linux, Debian, Slackware, or a BSD variant.
I tried, but neither Staples nor Best Buy carried laptops with those preinstalled, unless you count OS X on a MacBook Air as "a BSD variant".
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I'm happy to pay a bit of money for an OS that doesn't invade my privacy, thanks.
Come on over to Linux, the waters fine, and you won't have to pay anything for it, unless you go for Redhat's workstation version... Why anybody would, I'll never know...
Classic Shell (Score:2)
If anyone doesn't like it then just replace the Microsoft start menu with Classic Shell, problem solved.
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> If anyone doesn't like it then just replace the Microsoft start menu with Classic Shell, problem solved.
Don't you get tired of having to endlessly configure Windows? Can't it just work out of the box with sensible defaults, like other OSes?
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Live tiles are ads (Score:3)
The whole idea behind live tiles and the full screen interface that was in Windows 8 was that it was an ad. It was just cross promoting other Microsoft stuff. Bing Maps, Bing Finance, MSN, MS Store, Windows Mobile, Xbox etc... It was always about promoting Microsoft's other stuff in a full screen animated Ad. They alienated their users with a poorly thought out and designed UI including mystery meat navigation in the form of charms bars for the soul purpose of serving their cross promotional interests. Which is why in my opinion they didn't get nearly enough grief for the shenanigans.
Maybe I'll just fire up the old XP box when I want (Score:4, Insightful)
Since Micorsoft is accepting ads for Windows... (Score:2)
Well, that simplifies things ... (Score:3)
I guess it's time to disable Windows Updates entirely on my Windows 8.1 desktop.
Sorry, but no. Don't want crap like this, don't want Windows 10. It's my computer and not yours.
None of their damned analytics, or telemtry, or ads, or other invasive shit they're doing.
I might apply critical updates, but increasingly they've gone to great lengths to hide what the updates are really doing.
I'll take my chances with a desktop behind a firewall that I don't run stupid shit on. But I fear it is no longer possible to trust Microsoft, or allow them to have their bullshit idea that it is their computer and they'll do as they please with it.
I'll stick with my Windows 8.1 which has had Classic Shell installed and all of their romper-room interface crap turned off. Increasingly, I don't see any value in Windows 10 at all, and in fact I see it as hostile.
Thanks, Microsoft. This will be my last Windows desktop unless I run it in a VM.
I told my wife we'd switch (Score:2)
rhetorical questions (Score:4, Insightful)
Will it be well-received?
Rhetorical question, very much? When was the last time that people went on the street with signs reading "we want more advertisement"?
The really interesting question is: How do they get this data, which data do they send to get it, and how long will it take until there is the first piece of malware advertisement?
(you think if they limit it to featuring apps, that can't be exploited. You must be kidding. Firstly, someone will be smarter than you are and find a way. Secondly, what makes you so sure it will remain limited to featured apps?)
OneNote (Score:2)
My problem is that I frikin' love MS OneNote on a convertible laptop/tablet with a real stylus. I've been hooked since about 2003. Nothing comparable is available with Linux.
Massive Omission (Score:3, Informative)
and 20 Minutes into the Future ... (Score:2)
We'll be living in the world of Max Headroom [wikipedia.org]:
The series is set in a futuristic dystopia ruled by an oligarchy of television networks. Even the government functions primarily as a puppet state of the network executives, serving mainly to pass laws — such as banning "off" switches on televisions — that protect and consolidate the networks' power.
And who controls the TV networks? Advertisers
"This isn't so bad"? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's weird that pro-Windows folks are saying "this isn't so bad," pointing out how easy it is to turn off. Why would my operating system recommend apps in the first place? Others are suggesting that "perhaps I'll find an app that I never would have noticed with these suggestions." When I have a need for functionality, I will actively research apps! Do Windows users really sit around waiting for "surprise apps"?
IMHO, starting with Windows 8, Windows began transforming into a steaming cesspool of unusable crap. Recently, when faced with having to drop some money on a new computer, I switched from Windows to Mac. I'm not a fanboi, but because Windows started to dumb desktops down into the smartphone form factor, I figured: If I have to learn a new UI anyway, why not just switch? Now, I very much appreciate using an unobtrusive OS that lets me load files and run applications, and that also allows me to update the OS when I want to, at no additional cost.
I'm still forced to use Win8 at work (we're completely entangled in Office365 now), and to support my wife's Win8 machine at home, and that is enough Windows for me.
You can opt out (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I have long felt that as the end user that is forced to consume the advertisement content we should be getting paid for the time and brainpower needed to do so. At the very least it eats the bandwidth we are paying for. Perhaps this train of thought could lead to some interesting legislation.
Anyway, can't wait for the OS to hang like a web page because its waiting for the servers to send advertisement data. Can't wait for adblock and noscript for windows 10 operating system.
-gov
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Now that Linux has svchost.exe, er um systemd, the transition from Windows to Linux should be a smooth one.
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> Even if they make it a violation of the TOS or EULA or whatever to do so. I'll still turn it off.
Why not use a product that doesn't require you to break the law in order to use correctly?
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I think, as more and more people come to the conclusion that MS is BAD+EVIL, there will be an exodus away from MS products, at least by those who aren't locked in by reasons... FUCK MS!
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Why not use a product that doesn't require you to break the law in order to use correctly?
Recommend me such a laptop and I'll try it. Here is a first draft of my requirements:
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AND with MS, you have NO assurance that once you've removed an "update", or run a registry hack, that MS won't come along and shove another "update" on you that turns whatEVER crap you've turned OFF (on YOUR computer) back ON again.. And you'll never know what these "updates" are for, as they seem to have removed all of the descriptions on each update.. Now its just "you'll take our updates and you'll LIKE it!!!".... As I've said before "FUCK MS!!!"
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Sure I do... I don't just leave auto updates on. I update things as I see fit.
Try this out:
http://www.windowsupdatesdownl... [windowsupd...loader.com]
Vet Windows users know better than anyone not to trust MS when they get bossy or start saying "trust us".
We've had solutions to this sort of thing for a long time. This is nothing new. If you're just now encountering something we've been dealing with effectively years and years... then let me say "hello. Welcome. if you have questions as to how to proceed, please ask them and we'll get
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Aren't you pseudonymous rather than anonymous?
Certainly within Slashdot that's the case.
And use what instead? (Score:2)
Other than Windows 10, what other operating system is compatible with currently sold 10-inch laptops (including detachable laptop-tablets), including WLAN and suspend? The ASUS Transformer Book T100TA, for example, doesn't appear to work well in Debian (source [debian.org]) or Ubuntu (source [ubuntu.com]).
Or did you mean choosing to do without a laptop entirely?
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http://www.linux-netbook.com/ [linux-netbook.com]
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DX12 will force many
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Run Mac or Linux if you don't like it.
On what make and model of 10.1 inch laptop should I "Run Mac or Linux"? Neither Apple nor System76 offers a 10.1 inch screen size.
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Dad, why are Porn Ads in your Start Menu?
How did you break into my user account?
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APK is kinda right in his spam.
I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. It's all ad and tracking networks now, so the /very/ small number of ads directly hosted on primary sites now is minuscule.
However, you can't stop Windows from phoning home unless you firewall it at the router or dedicated hardware firewall. Anything you do to the hosts file in Windows itsel
Re:This is it! (Score:5, Insightful)
The Year of Linus adds in the frequently requested functionality of replacing the standard Windows calendar with 365 days of Met Life advertisements featuring beloved Peanuts character Linus.
You're welcome. Love,
Microsoft
Re:This is it! (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not sure I want Linus on my desktop.
Re: MS Fluffiness (Score:3)
You could also install win 7 ...same effect :)
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This is the year of Linus!
No kidding. Can someone suggest a good book to get started with Linux? The next box I build is looking to have some flavor of it instead of any version of Windows.
Re:This is it! (Score:5, Informative)
I can't recommend a book. My advice is to pick a commonly used distro with good documentation and more importantly a good community. Ubuntu is good in this respect (or xubuntu or kubuntu if you want a more familiar interface). I've also heard good things about mint and arch. Introduce yourself, say you're a newbie, and ask questions. Be polite and try not to be stupid or lazy if you can help it - try to read documentation, and always do a search before you ask a question (it's faster than waiting for a forum response anyway). There are also rooms on IRC where you can get help. In my experience people tend to be friendly there. I think the days of "RTFM" are mostly over. You might still get the occasional "RTFM" response or links to the relevant manual, but you'll usually get a helpful response.
IMHO the easiest way to learn Linux is to not have windows installed. It forces you to learn rather than being lazy and retreating to familiar territory.
It's not that scary these days anyway, there's a GUI for most things and you're rarely forced to use the command line (unless you want to) or mess around configuring hardware.
Re:This is it! (Score:4)
I can't recommend a book...It's not that scary these days anyway, there's a GUI for most things and you're rarely forced to use the command line (unless you want to) or mess around configuring hardware.
One, I mostly agree with your post. But...
Two, if the guy is building his own boxes, as he said in his post, he's likely going to be messing around configuring hardware. Which means:
Three, he's going to be doing a whole lot of command line stuff. Actually, I imagine pretty much any Slashdot reader, even one who's not already using Linux in 2015, is going to be the kind of person who ends up having to use the command line almost immediately. Granted, it is a lot whole lot better than it used to be. Unfortunately, it used to be so bad, you guys, and even just ten percent of "an inconceivable amount of command line" is still "quite a bit of command line".
I'd recommend O'Reilly's Linux Pocket Guide, which if I remember correctly is just a list of the most common commands. And has a cowboy on the cover. And is small and not that expensive. I'm sure you could get the same information online somewhere, but I don't know where.
The most important commands for a noob are going to be "su" and "sudo", "ls" and "ls -la", "cd", "pwd", "cat", "nano", "less", "chmod", "find -name <filename>", "grep", and "apt-get install <packagename>" or "yum install <packagename>", depending on whether your distro is Debian- or Fedora-based. You should learn how to use shell scripts, which have the file extension ".sh" and which are the Linux equivalent of batch files. You have to make them executable with "chmod a+x <scriptname>.sh" first, and if they're in the current directory, you have to run them with "./<scriptName>.sh". You will also be unable to avoid learning "vi", because it is TEH AWSAM, we have all agreed to believe; to get you started, the first vi command you should know is ":quit!".
Every program puts its files into about a dozen different directories, scattered all over the filesystem. This is the Linux way; there is no way around it. The error log files are typically in /var/logs/<applicationName>/. A particular user's desktop is at /home/<username>/Desktop. Good luck.
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if the guy is building his own boxes, as he said in his post, he's likely going to be messing around configuring hardware.
I missed the "builing his own boxes" bit. But I disagree about configuring hardware - It would need to be pretty exotic hardware to actually need configuration, especially requiring the command line. You slap in your live cd, run the installer, and you're set. You'll be prompted to install the proprietary driver for your graphics card. You click 'Activate' and enter your password, and that's about it. There are GUIs for just about everything. You don't even need to understand partitioning these days - the i
Re:This is it! (Score:4, Informative)
I know how you feel, I had a similar experience at first. I think Linux is actually more difficult for advanced windows users than for novices - advanced users are used to feeling like they know all the answers and being able to just get things done, so it's more daunting coming to an unfamiliar environment.
If you want deep knowledge and you're technical and patient, you might want to check out Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org], which is a book that goes through building your own Linux system from the ground up. It's probably more involved than what you're looking for at the moment - it's probably something better suited to someone with at least a few years Linux experience under their belt, but it does give you a really good understanding of a lot of stuff.
There are a lot of guides out there. Search engines are your friend. Search for [distro] [problem], e.g "ubuntu install software". also searching or "howto" is helpful, e.g "ubuntu apache howto".
One site I have used is the linux documentation project. They have a bunch of guides [tldp.org]. In particular, Linux Filesystem Hierarchy [tldp.org] Sounds like one which would be good for you. I have referred back to their advanced bash scripting guide many, many, many times over the years.
On the command line, man is your friend: type "man [command]" to get the documentation for most commands, e.g "man ls". There is also "man -k [searchterm]" if you don't know what command you want. It's dry reading but usually pretty detailed.
But I think perhaps what you really want is IRC. Pick a distro and jump on to the freenode IRC server and look for a relevant and active channel, e.g #ubuntu. Ask questions. You'll find someone (or a group of someones) who will be happy to answer questions. An advantage of IRC is speed - you get a response more quickly than on a forum.
In terms of installing software, it's not like windows - It's much, much better. most distros have a pretty user-friendly GUI for it these days. It'll offer you tens of thousands of apps with search and screenshots and ratings and all kinds of bells and whistles. And if you use the command-line you'll soon get the hang of apt or yum (depending on which distro you choose).
Go with a distro aimed at newbies. They are all very configurable and it's unlikely you'll need to switch for a technical reason, the community is the biggest difference IMHO - the distros aimed at newbies have better documentation and more helpful communities. I don't want to tell you what to choose (it's all about it being your choice after all), but IMHO you should choose ubuntu or one of its variants/derivatives.
It's not easy at first, but as your knowledge builds up it gets easier and easier. You will hit a point where you feel comfortable and then you will start learning a lot of things really quickly and then suddenly you'll feel really comfortable and you'll never want to go back. Don't give in to the initial frustration - stick with it, it's worth it.
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I also got my hands dirty getting Wine up and running to play Final Fantasy
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This is the year of Linus!
I imagine you were joking, or I hope...
That ship has sailed, Linux had its chance about 15 years ago, if the launch of Windows ME, Windows 2000, and even the RTM version of Windows XP didn't do it, Windows 10 won't either.
OS X actually could have a decent chance, if Apple would be willing to change how they sell it or how they build and price computers.
A decent Mac desktop computer for $599, $799, and $999 at those price points would sell, and sell a lot I believe. But the lowest price Apple tower is sever
Re: (Score:2)