Tesla Model S Software Updates Lets Car Park Itself With No One Inside It (bgr.com) 145
An anonymous reader writes with a link to this article at Boy Genius Report about a software upgrade now hitting Tesla owners, which begins: Tesla earlier today began pushing out version 7.1 of its software to Model S and Model X owners and, suffice it to say, it's a doozy of a software update. While we'll get to the full changelog shortly, we first wanted to highlight a feature called Summon which enables users to park their cars without having to be inside it. Conversely, it also lets Tesla owners summon their cars that already happen to be parked.
Beta (Score:5, Insightful)
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Ahahaha hater from the past, whats it feel like being the next taliban. The future too future for you? Join an amish cult and leave slashdot alone ffs.
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You know what they say: fail fast and move on. Facebook knew it, Toyota knew it, Tesla knows it, and now you know it.
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Then you should buy a 1968 car if you dont want a beta car.
ALL cars you buy today are running on beta firmware in the ECM, BCM and infotainment systems. If you think everything has been heavily and completely tested then you dont even have the first clue as to how the software world works today.
Software, outside of the military and space program is about how fast can you get it out the door, not about making a complete and safe product. Testing is what the customers do after it's sold to them.
Doozy vs Duesy (Score:3, Funny)
It's not a "doozy" of an upgrade.
Duesy is short for Duesenberg, a car so awesome it could only be a Duesy.
Ehud
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It has begun! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder who'll get in trouble when the car has an accident while auto-parking?
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While it's in "beta," I'm guessing the owner of the car, for using not fully tested software. In the final release, definitely the manufacturer.
captcha: taxi cabs
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I guess it will ALWAYS be in Beta then.... kind of like a Google product. The potential cost of declaring it out of Beta would not justify the additional prestige value, And besides, when their target customer realizes the coolness of the feature, they won't mind to buy it, just because it's beta.
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No, the switches had a fault where an undocumented position existed, outside of ACC, LOCK, RUN, and START. That position was called "RUN with airbags and warning systems disabled". It was accessible through wear of the weak spring inside the cylinder, and a light tap from a driver's knee.
As you can imagine, survivability during a head-on collision is markedly reduced when the car enters this mode, and this mode occurred when the driver was unlucky enough to bump the key while jostling during a collision.
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You hotboxing it?
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The trend with autonomous vehicles is the manufacturer is culpable for anything that happens when the vehicle is in autopilot mode. The question in my mind is: does this mean the vehicle will auto-switch back to manual control when collisions are imminent? They shouldn't, but does a manufacturer have the balls to try to get away with such a stunt?
A lesser version of this is refusing to switch to automatic when conditions are unfavorable, or a drunk driver trying to switch to autopilot right before crashing
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If a collision is imminent, the manufacturer is already in trouble, for putting the driver of the vehicle in a situation where there was no possible escape. Courts would make very short work of that tactic.
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I bet it would just refuse to park on my driveway. It's narrow and tricky for a human, so I bet the car would just think there isn't enough room to park safely.
Current auto-parking systems have the same problem. They can parallel park, but don't do things like align with spaces or park an appropriate distance from the car in front/behind. They end up wasting space. Then again, so do most human drivers.
Re: It has begun! (Score:2)
Most humans have a big problem with depth perception, projecting before-seen portions of a scene and mirrors. That's why parallel parking is such a problem for most people, they have no idea that there is really another 2-3 meter between two objects, most people think you've already hit the object when you can often still fit another car.
However computers have no problem with that. They can accurately measure the amount of space left.
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parallel parking is a problem for people because do not do it enough. If people stopped being lazy and went out and practiced parallel parking into 10 different spots around town each weekend then suddenly their proficiency goes up dramatically.
Some it will not, but those people also have problems with going straight down the road safely. Plus they cant avoid that siren song of their phone begging for them to play with it and text their BFF OMG!
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I can attest to this.
I'm British and was a perfectly proficient parallel parker before I moved to 'merika. 20 years over here, and the ez-mode perpendicular parking has atrophied my skills such that.. when I was in NYC the other day and tasked with performing a parallel park.. I ended up with one wheel on the pavement... >_
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Parallel park with a car you've never been in before or with a trailer for a change. That's what I'm talking about, humans have much difficulties adjusting to new perceptions. I can parallel park very well but a new car often gives me issues and I get out and see that I had plenty of space left, once I get used to a car, I can get it down to a few cm. But even then, sometimes I don't see a pole or other obstacle and block my passengers in. Computers can actually see how much is actually left at all times in
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depends on how smart your cruise control is. typically it switches off because traction control kicked in. the car has no way to detect if you're slipping because of bad road conditions or because you were just hit from a 90 degree angle. what it does know is that cruise control will try to accelerate if you are below speed. when the ecu detects differing speeds on wheels outside of the norm it should disengage as a safety feature. it just so happens the safety feature protects the manufacturer from li
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Now a cruise control is no where near an auto-pilot but it shows the manufacturers are in case of trouble already handing control back to the driver.
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shows the manufacturers are in case of trouble already handing control back to the driver.
Except cruise control is not an "automatic pilot" system; with cruise, the driver is always in full control the whole time and still has to steer, etc; obviously the driver is still a captive audience and still has to monitor all the vehicle operation even when using cruise.
Also, dropping out the cruise control is a "safe" response, even if the driver is not paying attention and does not notice they are decel
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I agree with your analysis of the impossibility to (suddenly) hand control over from an auto-driving vehicle.
What I tried to say with my cruise control example is that manufacturers are already selecting the safe option, in case of autonomous cars it'll no doubt include slowing down and finding 'a safe shut down'.
A step further, I do not see a future for autonomous vehicles without them being in constant contact with each other like a s
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Even my 1980 pontiac would do this because slippery conditions will cause RPM's to spike and trip the safety off. Problem is that's not a safe thing to do on ice because now you have a dramatic change and your tires will break loose.
My BMW on the other hand will trigger an ice and slipping warning on the dash and start changing the drive ratio of the AWD power to each wheel while lightly letting off the gas pedal to slow down very slightly. it actually will lightly let the throttle decrease slowly and low
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That's how it worked in Demolition Man.
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"The trend with autonomous vehicles is the manufacturer is culpable for anything that happens when the vehicle is in autopilot mode."
The... "trend"!? As in "in the last twenty accidents when on autopilot it was the manufacturer the guilty one"?
We'll see when the first trial ends. In the meantime, any sensible comparative seems to suggest otherwise. Does the builder pay the bill if a plane crashes when on autopilot? Even if it demonstrably is the autopilot's fault? Or is it that the victims' representative
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Here's a video of another car auto-parking:
http://www.wimp.com/carparking... [wimp.com]
The driver isn't even in the car. The default behavior will be for the car to stop if there's any obstacle. But what if that obstacle is someone who has just collapsed and had a heart attack, a leaking water pipe dripping water onto that parking space. How will it handle a driver coming up at high speed like an ambulance or police car? Other drivers would just move out the way.
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The trend with autonomous vehicles is the manufacturer is culpable for anything that happens when the vehicle is in autopilot mode.
The near future of autonomous vehicles is going to be that the manufacturer picks up the bill for computer controlled crashes, and they buy insurance to cover themselves.
Insurance companies are going to sell them that insurance because they realize that a world full of computer controlled vehicles is going to result in fantastically fewer insurance cases than our current world of vehicles controlled by moronic human drivers.
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Yeah right
// A hello world program in C++
#include<iostream>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
cout << "Hello World!";
return 0;
}
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Oh dear, missing newline in line 6:
jaf$ g++ temp.cpp ./a.out
jaf$
Hello World!jaf$
Let me know where to file the bug report :)
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The bugs are introduced after the linking phase of compilation with the above program.
Re: It has begun! (Score:2)
Not sure if you ment what you said, but...
Bugs exist in hardware too - they are just more accessible to normal people.
All hardware - even a doorknob - is just design in some sort of materialised form. So is software. Except its materialisation is less ... material.
Design implies a designer - thus his liability.
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The driver ofcourse.
That is to say, the person who instructs the car to start the automatic parking, regardless of whether that person is or is not inside the car.
Automated car theft (Score:1)
Now hackers can just hack your car and make it steal itself without having to risk going to the location.
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Well, it sounds like they'd have to be within 39 feet of the car. But that's enough distance to at least be safely out from under a street light, or even in the dark alley behind the neighbor's house.
Re: Automated car theft (Score:4, Funny)
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I wonder if, using software, you could make them all quack?
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Well, it sounds like they'd have to be within 39 feet of the car.
By the time it reaches the location of the first summon, they'll be 39 more feet away, and repeating the Summon.
Teething pains are going to be a bitch. (Score:2, Interesting)
The programmer in me says that you can't design infrastructure and situations for people's level of ability to deal with the unexpected, and then rely on strictly less able primitive AI in the same situations on the same infrastructure.
I always visualise a busy car park with two self-driving cars both stopped with noses together, trying to get into the same parking space and unable to safely proceed, and traffic backed up out onto the main road trying to get in.
Would that be the exact case that trips them u
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This could happen [youtu.be].
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Except that in the US it's exceedingly rare to have bidirectional 1 lane thoroughfares with adjacent parking spots and automation will signal the immediate need to clean up these niche cases.
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Except that in the US it's exceedingly rare to have bidirectional 1 lane thoroughfares
The rarity of these types of roadways makes it even more likely that the devices do not properly handle them.
signal the immediate need to clean up these niche cases.
Or involvement of traffic authorities and citation of drivers, if their equipment hinders the roadway.
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> The rarity of these types of roadways makes it even more likely that the devices do not properly handle them.
The case described does not have a proper procedure. This is a traffic design failing, not a civil liability.
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The case described does not have a proper procedure. This is a traffic design failing, not a civil liability.
The roadways are designed for human use, and vehicles which are operated by humans at all time: the public roads are not provided for just any possible use that people are able to imagine. Human-operated vehicles handle these situations just fine, therefore, if the machine does not, and the manufacturer encourages its operation unattended, then the machine (or its human operator who made it o
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I'm sure Tesla has no programmers who've thought about the things you came up with "as a programmer" in 5 seconds.
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The traditional rule of the road (and sea) is that the largest vehicle has priority:
40 ton truck > doubledecker bus > singledecker bus > stretch limo > black cab taxi > flatbed truck > 4x4 offroader > estate car > compact car > mini smartcar > motorcyclist > cyclist.
In a single lane road, the smaller vehicle has to reverse back if someone is coming the other way. Does lead to some interesting situations where two vehicles are exactly the same size.
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More likely is the drooling idiot that parks his giant bro-dozer truck in the "compact car only" spot consuming 2 and 1/2 spots.
Does it pass the Baby Test? (Score:1)
I wonder if the upgrade passes the Baby Test: Lay down a 24 month old baby in the center of the parking spot, and summon the Tesla into to park itself. Expected outcome: There should be no leaking blood.
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I wonder if the upgrade passes the Baby Test: Lay down a 24 month old baby in the center of the parking spot, and summon the Tesla into to park itself. Expected outcome: There should be no leaking blood.
I tried it out -- results are mixed. The car passes the test when the air suspension is set to the "high" and "standard" settings, but not when it is set to the "low" or "very low" settings.
On a related note, can anyone recommend a good pressure washer?
Pffft... (Score:2)
Just waiting for the malware... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm just waiting for the malware to hit these smart cars.
Just a few possibly lucrative scams that could manifest in due time:
Ransomware. "Pay us OMGWTFBBQ! dollars, or never drive your expensive status symbol ever again! We've encrypted the entire drive control computer's filesystem, so pay up."
Spyware: "Know where your spouse is REALLY going during the day! Our special software runs silently on smart cars to let you know exactly where and how long it has been running! Easy integration with our smartphone a
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I think the actual exploit will be more like:
"Hello Mr. Passenger -- we've taken the liberty of re-routing your car... you're now on your way to Tierra del Fuego, ETA next Tuesday. If you'd like to be re-routed back towards your original destination, please send bitcoins to the address via your cell phone. We'll wait..."
Re: Just waiting for the malware... (Score:2)
I'm not sure I could figure out how to install bitcoin software on my cell phone by Tuesday. Ah well, a good excuse to get out of work. :)
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I hope you had the foresight to install a portable toilet in your passenger cabin, because the car won't be making any stops... ;)
Misleading Statement in Article (Score:2)
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Where does it get the posted speed limit from? Any ways that makes it use less for I-294 now.
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I reads the speed limit signs on the side of the road. It's pretty accurate. It will also adjust the cruise control to the speed limit +/- a delta that you select.
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What makes you think I'm not a dog?
(Sorry about the typo but it was funny...)
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The 5 MPH over posted limit is to low from some roads
And who pays? (Score:2)
And who pays when it doesn't work exactly right and it crunches the car next to it? Who pays when it doesn't work exactly right and scrapes a wall? Will Tesla pay for this kind of accident?
If this system fails only one out of a 1000 times, that still means it's going to hit something sooner or later. Of course, I may hit something when I park, but then it's my fault for not taking more care.
I park my car 4 or 5 times a day on average, and a failure rate of 1-in-1000 means that by the end of the year the au
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If the human car owner is at fault, he/she should pay. If the car AI is at fault, the car maker should pay. I guess the insurance companies will receive two premiums per car -- one from the car owner and another from the car maker.
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Wait until the insurance companies force you to pay double premiums because you insist on still driving the car yourself.
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As a bicyclist commuter, I'm looking forward to that day. If it could come yesterday that would be great.
A guy blew through a red light and killed my buddy Bryan from high school who was riding his motorcycle through his green light on Friday and killed him. Although it's possible there could be a software glitch that would cause the computer to do the same thing, it's not likely.
Five months ago a drunk driver ran a red light and ran over my friend Deb who was crossing at the crosswalk along
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You may find that the opposite happens..
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Given the statistics so far. I highly doubt that's going to be the case. If they have deductibles broken down by gender, marriage status and age they're definitely going to split them along human / non-human lines.
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"And who pays when it doesn't work exactly right and it crunches the car next to it?"
Who pays when any machinery you own wreaks havoc? Who pays if your car suddenly loses its parking brakes on a slope and crashes into something? Who pays if a plane crashes when on autopilot? Why do you expect a Tesla car to be any different?
Of course, you can always sue back the machinery builder -any machinery, if you think you have a case.
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Who pays when any machinery you own wreaks havoc? Who pays if your car suddenly loses its parking brakes on a slope and crashes into something?
Sometimes you pay, sometimes the manufacturer pays. It depends on the circumstances.
For example, Takata has to pay for refitting 34 million vehicles with defective air bags. In the parking brake example you cite, if the parking brake was found to be defective the owner wouldn't normally be found to be liable.
And so it may or may not be with Tesla- if they produce software that causes the operation of a car to malfunction, they may be deemed to be at fault. Or maybe the insurance company will make you pay in
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did you push the button to make it park? Then you are 100% liable.
It's really simple, but wont stop a scumbag from trying to lawyer his way out of it.
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did you push the button to make it park? Then you are 100% liable.
I don't think it's that simple. If the parking software has a defect that causes the car to strike something or veer out into traffic or accelerate in reverse at 100mph, I don't think it's a matter of "Well, you pressed the button".
Are people going to be held responsible for when they pressed the button, or what the circumstances were when they pressed it? How will responsibility be apportioned when a person hands off control of something like a car to a software agent that interacts with potentially harmfu
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Radar picks up clowns car 0.654m away, 0.612m away 40ms later, calculates whether a collision may occur, engages brake 5ms later, preventing collision.
What do you think will happen?
I think that about 6.12 secs later, 11.0 clowns will be pouring out of the clown car, and absolute hilarity will ensue!
That's not really "parking" (Score:5, Insightful)
The video shows the car moving up to 39 feet in a straight line to get out of a tight garage. That's not really "parking". A "real" autopark would be if I could get out of the car at the door to my office, then send the car to go park itself in the lot.
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Patience, grasshopper.
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Auto-steering seems to be out of beta, which is a bit worrying when they are still issuing updates like "doesn't crash into highway exits" and "doesn't stop working if lane markings are faded.
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Millions of women would be happy if they could get out in front of a parking space and let the car handle the rest. With this feature alone, Tesla guaranteed that the wives of every rich man on the planet will ask for a Tesla as their next car.
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In Seattle .... (Score:5, Insightful)
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In Seattle they outlaw human driven cars from downtown.
Re: In Seattle .... (Score:2)
If only. The number of humans that pull into an intersection without space to exit and block the intersection for several light cycles... Ugh.
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Where I'm from, that's illegal - sounds like some cameras and a bit of software could be made to correct that behaviour (and make money!)
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Actually, you can still park in Seattle if you slip a few people on the city council $30,000. Or your name is Diamond.
In Putin's Russia (Score:2)
Re:In Seattle ....FTFY (Score:1)
... we could just get out of our cars and have them drive endlessly around the block instead of looking for a parking space.
Valet Parking? (Score:3)
summon their cars that already happen to be parked.
Who get's the $10 tip?
Quick question (Score:2)
I am curious why just simple remote auto start/stop of your engine is not a standard option by now, it is something I had to add to me car via a 3rd party security system. It is mostly nice when heating up your car in the morning and turning on defrost.
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Some of us own garages and don't want our cars to be able to be started by a remote actor.
Always remember: if you can do something remotely, someone else can too.
Really? (Score:1)
Who is responsible for if it damages a car or runs over a toddler?
The driver? Nobody will use it after the first news report of an accident.
The car manufacturer? Nobody will be able to afford one once the insurance liability kicks into the retail price.
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I think that gives them a view of maximum two sides, obscuring everything behind 50% of the car on the far side that's hardest to judge, and likely only two corners, personally.
Compared to the front, sides, and mirrors to the rear when sitting inside the car, even before you get into cameras etc. from a central location where you can see all without moving more than your head.
But, hell, I'm only a mathematician.
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So it's a lot like driving the car yourself -- this should not be called "car parks itself" then. What happens if you can't see some hidden object while summoning and that object gets crushed by your car? I guess it's the summoner's fault.
Nothing like this is worth the risk of OTA updates (Score:3)
A machine easily capable of killing me (and others) by a mere unintended 5 change of direction while driving on a highway is certainly the least machine that I want to receive over-the-air updates at any time.
Maybe Tesla is a little less profit-above-everything inclined than other companies at this time, but there's no reason to think it will stay like this. Just look how OTA-firmware upgrades have worked against owners of LG-TVs, PS3s and so on... one day, a pointy haired boss will decide to change Tesla car firmware to boost his profits, not your well-being.
"5 degree change of direction" was meant... (Score:2)
Re:Text has error in it... (Score:5, Informative)
If the update text has errors in it ( i.e. frunk instead of trunk, ref: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com... [teslamotorsclub.com] ), I hope the feature itself was better QA'd.....
That's not a typo. "Frunk" is Tesla's term for the front trunk.
Re:frunk trunk (Score:2)
"Fapping the cruise stalk up or down; the set speed will be set to Model S's current speed."
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If the parking space is too narrow, all you've done is fuck the drivers next to you who can't get into their cars until you move yours.