Surveillance Culture Brought To the Masses, Courtesy of Verizon (consumerist.com) 215
kheldan writes: Verizon is now offering a way to secretly track your family members' whereabouts and driving habits with your smartphone: "Do you have a teen driver in your household and want to know every time they get a little overzealous with the accelerator? Or maybe you're pretty sure your spouse's frequent trips to 'the office' are not so innocent? If so, then an upcoming update for Verizon's 'hum' in-car smart device might be just what you're looking for.' The new 'features' added will allow you to receive alerts if the target vehicle leaves a predetermined area, drives faster than a preset level, its location, and keeps a history of all the above for later review.
Lost the Battle (Score:5, Interesting)
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No, that doesn't matter. What matters is if they give it to governments without a warrant.
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The cat better hope we can't find a way to put it back in the bag. Because then you may rest assured that it learns to swim.
Or sink.
Verizon wins the prize for 'most evil' (Score:5, Insightful)
All of the above (Score:3)
You thought Microsoft was evil? You thought Google was evil? Nope! Verizon wins going away.
You say that as if they were mutually exclusive...
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I was on a weather site that had an outdoor cam in a walmart parking lot and just happened to see my wife walking in so I capped and cropped out a picture and then pretended that it was sent to me by someone claiming to be her boyfriend that knows everything about her but she hadn't met...
Probably not my best practical joke...
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ummm and you are letting them drive around without supervision?
Re:Verizon wins the prize for 'most evil' (Score:4, Funny)
Of course not, don't be silly! Thanks to this verizon app, I'll be able to supervise them at all times!
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Why not? One could argue that driving is good for them--getting out, seeing new things, etc. Alzheimer's doesn't necessarily hurt their driving skills.
I grew up in a fairly rural area. My father knew every back-road, logging trail, discontinued road, horse path, dog path, and ant path in the area and he loved to go out in his old jeep and drive them. As kids, we would go along on "Jeep Rides" with Dad in the summertime.
Brain damage is an interesting thing, which is what Alzheimer's is. My Dad didn't ne
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If there is no diagnosis then why are YOU claiming they have alzheimer's?
Alzheimer's (Score:2, Insightful)
When you deal with somebody every day, you can tell that something is wrong.
Obviously you've never had a parent with Alzheimer's. You're lucky.
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Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:3, Interesting)
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From talking to many of my co-workers who have teenage children, apparently no, you don't really want to know. You think you want to know, but if you knew better, you'd rather be ignorant of that. This comes from one co-worker expressing interest in something like this and everybody chiming in that he really didn't want to know and how ignorance really was bliss.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:4, Insightful)
And I'm sure that when you were a teen you never did anything that would upset your parents when they weren't watching you. Be careful what you wish for. Your actions now may cause your kid to distrust you for the rest of his life.
At the very least, if I knew I was being watched while I drove the car, I would just have a friend come pick me up. If you decided to track my cell phone, the next time you did it I would just leave my phone at home. Done, now you can't track my habits, you don't know where I am, AND you can't reach me.
Have fun with that.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:4, Interesting)
LOL, a teenager, leaving their phone at home? That's hilarious.
Oh, and this is an in-car device as I read TFA ... this isn't bugging the kid's phone, it's bugging the entire car.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:4, Insightful)
So none of you were trusted at all by your parents when you were teenagers? Watched constantly? Did they respect you at all, or were you treated like a little criminal until you were 18, then, what, kicked out of the house? That's what some of your comments are leading me to believe.
Trust and respect are important when raising children. How are they going to trust and respect you, if you don't lead by example by trusting and respecting them? More to the point: If you didn't raise them in such a way that you can trust and respect them, then who's really at fault here? Other parents I know don't feel the need to put their teenage kids on a leash like this, and they don't get in any trouble, either, and before you say 'as far as they KNOW', it's evident from their grades in school (good) and the way they conduct themselves. Are they perfect? Of course not. But how is being 'helicopter parents' and never trusting them a good thing? Seriously, what kind of adults are they going to be when brought up in an environment like that? If you can't trust your son or daughter to be responsible when driving, then maybe you shouldn't let them drive in the first place. I think the old time-tested rule of 'get a ticket, you don't get to drive for a while' is more than adequate. We're all already surveilled everywhere we go these days, why bring it into our homes, too? Honestly, where does it end? Or are you all so thoroughly indoctrinated that being treated like a criminal and watched 24/7/365 is now 'normal' for you? If so then I mourn.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting comment thread.
So none of you were trusted at all by your parents when you were teenagers? Watched constantly? Did they respect you at all, or were you treated like a little criminal until you were 18, then, what, kicked out of the house? That's what some of your comments are leading me to believe.
Trust and respect are important when raising children. How are they going to trust and respect you, if you don't lead by example by trusting and respecting them? More to the point: If you didn't raise them in such a way that you can trust and respect them, then who's really at fault here? Other parents I know don't feel the need to put their teenage kids on a leash like this, and they don't get in any trouble, either, and before you say 'as far as they KNOW', it's evident from their grades in school (good) and the way they conduct themselves. Are they perfect? Of course not. But how is being 'helicopter parents' and never trusting them a good thing? Seriously, what kind of adults are they going to be when brought up in an environment like that? If you can't trust your son or daughter to be responsible when driving, then maybe you shouldn't let them drive in the first place. I think the old time-tested rule of 'get a ticket, you don't get to drive for a while' is more than adequate. We're all already surveilled everywhere we go these days, why bring it into our homes, too? Honestly, where does it end? Or are you all so thoroughly indoctrinated that being treated like a criminal and watched 24/7/365 is now 'normal' for you? If so then I mourn.
I agree with you, but this is also a case of where do you draw the lines.
Phone tracking? oh, hell no. I'd never do that to my kids.
Speed tracking on the car? That one is a good idea, because now we're talking about avoiding death and crippling - irreversible mistakes.
But in no way would I do secret tracking. That is an insult and borderline evil. If we put it on their car, then I'll put it on my car just to be fair.
Tell them it's on and why. It's just part of the deal of driving in my family.
If professional drivers can live with these devices, then so can the teenagers.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:4, Insightful)
If professional drivers can live with these devices, then so can the teenagers.
Interestingly enough, I have a long-time friend who has been driving trucks his entire professional life. He's driven for companies like Arco/BP, who put GPS, cameras, and microphones inside the cab, for review of driver conduct and safety. He hates it, every other driver hates it, because you can't say anything while driving without them knowing about it, and anything you say, regardless of context, regardless of the true intent (as opposed to their interpretation, or their intent) can get you fired. Even an expression on your face (again, regardless of context) can get you fired. It's not a good thing. It raises drivers' stress levels to the breaking point, because regardless of their driving record, regardless of their productivity, they can be fired for mumbling something under their breath or just having a look on their face that has nothing to do with their driving the truck. The turnover rate is high. After a relatively young age, people just don't like or want to be watched all the time. In the context of this story I can't see it being a good thing for a kid's development into an adult to know they're being watched (i.e., not trusted at all) constantly, and surveilling them covertly all the time is just plain creepy. I don't think it's a good trend for society, either.
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
they can be fired for mumbling something under their breath or just having a look on their face
As stupid as that sounds, I'd still like to see a website full of screenshots of truck drivers making expressions that got them fired.
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That's really weird. You say this is commonplace now in the trucking industry?
This reminds me of a job I had many years ago, doing research on truckers. We outfitted some trucks with hidden cameras to spy on the drivers, and recorded it all on videotape. This wasn't used against the drivers in any way, and never got to their employers, it was used for human factors research. Anyway, we'd sometimes watch the videos, and it was really funny seeing how far some drivers could stick their fingers up their no
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Interesting comment thread.So none of you were trusted at all by your parents when you were teenagers?
They trusted me, but they probably shouldn't have considering all the shit and trouble I got into. lol
But seriously, I see your point and I agree with it. This is one of those things where there are a 10000 shades of gray and no clear lines, plus every kid and every family is different. Call it 500 billion permutations of what's "right" or "fair" or "reasonable". One size definitely doesn't fit all in this kind of scenario.
There are some cases where it would absolutely be the right thing to monitor a kid's
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"Done, now you can't track my habits, you don't know where I am, AND you can't reach me."
Hey, it's the 90s again!
I'm kind of ashamed of Slashdot. If I were a teenager and my parents got one of these things installed I'd solder in an off switch so I could go dark when I wanted. And I'd hack the account so I could watch what they were doing.
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Nope. You just want to verify.
Or do you honestly want to tell us you're ONLY going to use it when you have to assume something bad happened?
Trust, but verify (Score:2)
I believe Ronald Reagan, the shining beacon of Republican Hope, and canonized for all he said and did, said it most succinctly when dealing with nuclear disarmament treaties with the USSR - trust, but verify. For a new driver on the road - I think this is a good thing.
OTOH, I worry about someone who buys this for their spouse. Unless you're getting it for yourself and giving your spouse the "keys" to the tracking because you have to drive somewhere that's a bit dodgy, you marriage is already on its way out
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you ever met a teenager?
Because, my recollection of being one is everything you said is utterly false.
Part of being a teenager, apparently, is finding your own stupid things to do, regardless of what parents have done.
Re: Teen driver checkup? yes please (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, being a stupid rebellious little shit is an integral part of maturing. It shouldn't be taken as a sign of poor parenting, but it should be allowed to exist.
How different would you be, now an adult, if you were monitored 24/7 by the average helicopter parent of today with this level of surveillance? Do you believe it would have improved the result?
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>"You don't need to actively monitor. Just the knowledge that the monitoring exists will (hopefully) affect the risk/reward calculations just enough to keep the stupidity to a dull roar."
And what you end up with are people growing up with no real morals. They do the "right" thing only BECAUSE they think they are being watched. So what do they do when they think they are not being watched (and really not being watched)? It also brings up another generation believing that this new, even more invasive le
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Have you ever met a teenager?
Because, my recollection of being one is everything you said is utterly false.
not to let the cat out of the bag but... not everybody is adopted, bro. ;)
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That stopped being true over a decade ago. That's why the Millennials stopped caring about cars. Now they just have sex at the permissive parent's house - no car required.
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You realize that this tracking device is attached to the car, right? I suppose your hypothetical kid will figure that out when he goes to pick up his phone and sees all of the messages from his parents.
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How is it attached to the car? Cars these days don't have phones in them, they just use your phone's Bluetooth connection to access the internet. There's a good reason for this: if they had their own cellular data connection, you'd have to pay a hefty per-month service fee for that. By using your phone, you avoid that.
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How is it attached to the car? Well, let me do the research about the Verizon Hum device that you don't want to do, and I'll tell you.
It plugs into the car's ODB-II port, and it also includes a bluetooth speaker that you can pair with your phone that has some buttons to do things like calling for help.
Cars these days don't have phones in them, they just use your phone's Bluetooth connection to access the internet. There's a good reason for this: if they had their own cellular data connection, you'd have to pay a hefty per-month service fee for that. By using your phone, you avoid that.
You know what probably does have its own cellular data connection? A $15/month service from Verizon.
And the government ... (Score:5, Insightful)
All of which will be legally accessible by the government, without warrant as it will be business records of Verizon.
And, of course, your divorce lawyer will be able to subpoena it.
And if you get into an accident it will get called in to make sure you weren't at the bar.
Anybody signing up for this should recognize just how stupid this is, and just how much this is going to be accessible to everybody who demands it.
Yet another bit of the connected society I would never want any part of. Signing yourself up to this is basically going to allow dozens of other parties to be able to know everything you do.
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So, you were looking at porn while driving, then? ;-)
Surveillance and censorship (Score:3, Interesting)
It's all coming together, nice and neat. Do they bother putting a real 'off' button on phones anymore? Since you can't remove the battery, how do you know?
Re:Surveillance and censorship (Score:4, Interesting)
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I don't have the numbers, but it's a lot...
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I replied to a comment by some guy who's phone wouldn't let him remove the battery. I didn't believe him, but it turned out the case was glued together. Some kind of Android phone.
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Another option: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files... [shopify.com]
Interesting Idea (Score:4, Funny)
A whole new holicopter... (Score:2)
Gonna need two (Score:5, Funny)
One for the wife, one for the GF!
Re:Gonna need two (Score:5, Funny)
you just can't trust those women.
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Yup! And you should have a wife and a mistress. Because...
(tl;dr -- skip to the bold.)
An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or a mistress. The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship.
The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there.
You just can't guess right what the engineer said. "I like both." "Both?" Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the lab and get some work done."
Not only Verizon (Score:2, Informative)
Hyundai made similar "features" available for my Elantra via my BlueLink subscription since 2012 (see also http://m.hyundaiusa.com/technology/bluelink/features/vehicle-safeguard.html) and monitor by App, text, or email. I'm sure most car manufacturers have followed suit by now.
kids are like pets (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:kids are like pets (Score:5, Insightful)
So, purely to play Devil's advocate ... if you have a car loan, is your bank entitled to monitor you?
Is your spouse always entitled to monitor you?
What about the police? Because, after all, there are legal implications if you hurt someone.
How far do we extend the list of people who should allowed to spy on you? I'm curious? Are you advocating all forms of surveillance, or just when you do it?
Because the surveillance society is exactly this.
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kids are like pets you don't trust them and always monitor them
Bullshit - by normalizing surveillance you create the totalitarian state. Teens need to learn to be adults. That means trusting them some, and helping them with the inevitable mistakes. No, that's not optimal for your convenience.
if you want to borrow my $30,000 a year toy
That's an expensive habit!
But who lets the kid drive the good car? That's why you buy them the beater, or give them the aging hand-me-down.
with legal implications if you hurt someone
Legal implications? I hope it hasn't come to that yet - surely the totalitarian state isn't so far along that we're punishing people for t
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But who lets the kid drive the good car? That's why you buy them the beater, or give them the aging hand-me-down.
Noting says trust like saying "I don't trust you with the good car... here's a piece of crap"
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Never heard of it working any other way, except in very rich families. Every single person I grew up with who got a car, got a beater of one kind or another, and usually the "and you can't ever drive the good car" was explicit. I don't know anyone who was offended by that - we all knew that responsibility wasn't chief among our virtues, and anyhow the first year driving was just that.
You don't always have a choice. (Score:2)
The geek isn't going to want to hear this.
But tracking may be the only way to keep the very young and the very old out of trouble on the road.
Some seniors know when it is time to surrender their keys, some don't. Some kids can be trusted with a car, some can't. I've taken some of the calls which send you to
cut-off (Score:2)
This is just a little step further (Score:2)
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Man, your kid must be a Disney-aholic... Drive 75 miles at break-neck speed to get to Disney world only to spend a little over an hour there? That's dedication right there...
This isn't new (Score:2)
Jamming signal (Score:2)
How long before very short range jamming devices are popular among the kids, I wonder?
I have to disagree with the group consensus (Score:2)
I get why it's chilling to spy on your spouse or your child.
However, you have every right to spy on the whereabouts of your *car*. Those things are expensive, they get stolen, and sometimes people who didn't even do anything wrong get in trouble and it can be useful to know where it is, and maybe you just like to see where you yourself went. And if your child happens to use your car, then a consequence is you can figure out where they were.
Don't stick cameras in your child's room, even though it's your ho
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Honestly, being tracked and surveilled as a kid wouldn't be too bad if you had really permissive parents who just wanted to know where you were, just in case. If you have the kind of relationship with your parents where you tell them you're going to be spending the (weekend) night at a friend's house, and they ask who, their address, etc., and you give them the address and say it's some girl you're going to be sleeping with, and their response is just to make sure you use condoms, then those are the kind o
Not so new (Score:2)
This was state of the art in 2010 on T-Mobile.
Our pet tracker was re-purposed for personnel (not intentionally) and vehicle tracking. It also found its way to used car dealerships and, in particular, was designed for repossession when leasing to those with dubious credit histories (a fairly large market, btw).
The tracking data was uploaded and stored on our servers whenever the device had a strong cell signal.
Due to the size of the device, the technology was creepy and our ops folks had to share location
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For $15/month? You can get the same thing from free apps if you buy the OBD [scantool.net] device. The only down side is the teen could turn their phone off and I hardly see that happening.
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I would like to have the ability to make my phone beep while on silent back so I can find the darned thing.
Asurion's Mobile Recovery let me do this but Verizon's family locator does not.
Still at least I can tell whose yard it's been left in.
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All Android phones have this. Yes, the phone still rings if the phone is on mute.
https://www.google.com/android... [google.com]
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No, that's pretty much the definition of a redneck.
A Redneck is the guy who drinks a bottle of beer while he's speeding down the freeway in hi pickup truck, and tosses the bottle out the window when he's done. A Good Ole Boy, on the other hand, puts the empty in the trash.
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I'm confused on how this tracking device would help your brother slow down or quit smoking.
Wife can start a nag-a-thon while he's driving.
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Wife can already do that if she's in the truck. Or did you mean the wife can start texting and calling him, distracting him even more than he already is?
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Wife can already do that if she's in the truck.
He doesn't smoke when she's in the truck.
Or did you mean the wife can start texting and calling him, distracting him even more than he already is?
He's not distracted when tossing a cigarette butt out the window. He's doing it on purpose because it's his goddamn right as a smoker. And he's still piss off that he can't drive down the freeway with an open can of beer between his legs.
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And why is this woman still married to this douchebag?
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And why is this woman still married to this douchebag?
They bought a house together with the down payment borrowed from her retirement account. Until the mortgage is no longer underwater and real estate prices are skyrocketing again in Silicon Valley, they can't sell the house to have money for retirement. So they're stuck with each other until circumstances changes.
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Surely they could set up a corporation to own the house, then each be half-owner of the corporation (or maybe less on his side since the down payment was hers; community property law should support that since she owned that money before the marriage), move out, rent the house out, and get a divorce.
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Wife can start a nag-a-thon while he's driving.
Yeah that totally helps a smoker who's driving while angry.
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Why do you think he's a smoker who drives while angry?
I need this! (Score:2)
...so I can find my car when I forget where I parked it!
(say, what would be even more handy would be if, instead of my phone telling me where my car is, my car would be able to tell me where I left my phone.)
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Wow. I wonder how our parents dealt with stuff like this when all the phones had wires. Maybe they just followed the wires back to the car.
Are we really that mentally different now and cannot remember where we parked?
Re:Is this an April fools joke come early? (Score:5, Insightful)
I grew up with no surviving pictures of me and a skull bong, my parents didn't always know where I was as a teen, and I've always driven fast.....but hey at least back then I was able to be more independent, make mistakes, learn from them and grow up without feeling like I had to have Mommy and Daddy watching my every move......
I'm glad I got to be what used to be a 'traditional' teenage part of my life.
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