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Will Self-Driving Cars Clog Our Highways? (go.com) 655

An anonymous reader writes: While self-driving cars may be safer and cheaper, the Associated Press warns they could also create massive traffic congestion. "The problem, say transportation researchers, is that people will use them too much." One auto industry expert predicts that self-driving cars will increase travel by those over 65, as well as those between 16 and 24, resulting in at least 2 trillion extra miles being driven each year. In addition, "Airlines also may face new competition as people choose to travel by car at speeds well over 100 mph between cities a few hundred miles apart instead of flying," and faster commute times could mean more urban sprawl as workers may spread into cheaper neighborhoods that are further from the city center.
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Will Self-Driving Cars Clog Our Highways?

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  • The taxi / mini bus idea will also do the same with a high number of them needing to go and force from some depot before / after rush hour.

  • Yeah, so... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RobinH ( 124750 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:40PM (#52117333) Homepage
    Is it a surprise that when you invent a good thing, people will want to use it? You might as well say that if you invent smart phones, then cell networks will be hopelessly congested. Of course they will, which will create pressures to build out new networks.
    • Re:Yeah, so... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stinerman ( 812158 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:45PM (#52117359)

      Sure, but the main builder of roads is the government. And if we're going to build more roads, we'll need more spending on roads, which means more taxes. People do not like taxes.

      I find that people would rather spend hundreds of dollars per year in wasted gas/time in traffic than see their taxes go up by half that amount.

      • Re:Yeah, so... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by C0R1D4N ( 970153 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:14PM (#52117479)
        Self driving cars will likely make traffic move so much more efficiently any extra people on the road will at worst be canceled out.
    • Re:Yeah, so... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:46PM (#52117371)

      Yeah, I'd think it would be a GOOD thing that Senior Citizens wouldn't be homebound.

      And that teenagers could get home from parties safely.

  • by grilled-cheese ( 889107 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:43PM (#52117347)
    With the advent of self-driving vehicles, we also are embracing enhanced congestion avoidance. When we worry about an extra volume of vehicles on the roadways we must also take into account advanced congestion avoidance routing helping to mitigate that impact. I'm not suggesting that it's a non-issue, but we may not know the true effect for now. The real problems would come from inaccurate road mapping data causing poor route planning. Also, nobody looks forward to their suburb turned into a secondary thoroughfare that suddenly all the non-residents would use.
    • With the use of Google Maps, my HDC is already embracing congestion avoidance. I have at least 4 viable routes home, before I leave the office I check and take the most attractive one at the time (or stay put if they all suck.)

  • by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:49PM (#52117399)

    Oh wait... not weeping... the other thing.

    Over the last couple of decades the airline industry has been going well out of their way to make sure that flying is unpleasant an experience as possible. Granted, they've had no small amount of cooperation from the government. But I've not a doubt in the world that some properly-directed lobbying and cries of "impacting the bottom line" would have returned the TSA thugs to their former jobs delivering pizza and greeting people at walmart ten or more years ago, if the airlines weren't complicit. And even aside from the TSA goons, they've reduced seat pitch, cut amenities, overbooked flights, run flights behind schedule or cancelled them,, eliminated meal services, and started nickel-and-diming with every sort of added fee imaginable, all 100% on their own initiative.

    I've no bloody sympathy for them at all. A pox upon their houses.

    • Actually I would be a lot more worried with self driving cars if I were an Uber driver. They may have courted technology to the point where they are replacing traditional taxis but technology is a fickle mistress and will probably soon be dumping them soon too.

      The airline industry may contract somewhat but lets face it they don't make most of their money from short hops between cities within a few hours drive of each other. In fact if they are smart about it and run a self-driving airport bus service the
    • They were reducing seat pitch, overbooking flights and cheaping out on inflight refreshment starting from the day of deregulation.

      Before deregulation, they were guaranteed a good profit on every route they flew and they competed for customers based on service.

      Since deregulation, fares have plummeted and service has been a race to the bottom to support ever decreasing fares.

  • It won't be long before there will be ultra-high speed highways that are for automated cars only. Remember, with automated cars, traffic could theoretically look like a traffic jam in a snapshot but actually be moving at 100+ mph. A self driving car doesn't need 100+ ft between it and the car in front of it to account for reaction time.
    • It won't be long before there will be ultra-high speed highways that are for automated cars only.

      Imagine cities where only autonomous cars are allowed. Traffic lights could be a thing of the past, with cars crossing allowing only a few inches of space between them

      The real problem becomes pedestrians. If you know that the cars will avoid you, what's to stop you from crossing the road at any time?

    • We were theoretically getting 100+mph interstate highways, up until the first OPEC thing.

      There's nothing inherently more efficient about automated cars travelling at high speeds - in heavy traffic they can draft each other a bit more safely, but after the first 100 car pile-up, I doubt they'll continue to do that.

  • More miles driven/ridden? Sure. However, those miles done by the 65+ crowd is probably not going to be during rush hour. Also, a lot of the longer trips are going to be done at night. Personally I'm looking forward to getting into the car in the evening, going to sleep and waking up at my vacation destination in the morning. As others have mentioned, self-driving only lanes will take care of most of the problem. That lane will be whipping along at 90+ with inches between each car.
    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Don't you believe it...
      Around where i work, all the over 65s visit the bank during lunchtime, when those of us who have to work are on our lunch break. During the mornings and afternoons the banks are empty, the over 65s generally don't have to work yet for some reason they choose to visit banks during the most congested time, and cause those of us with a short time limited lunch break to waste all of it stood in a queue.

  • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:16PM (#52117493)
    All those loud and smelly horseless carriages are a menace and they scare the horses!
  • Maybe an AI driving a car won’t be as good as some of the best drivers, but they’ll certainly be better than average. The main advantage is that they can take into account traffic factors that human drivers won’t be aware of, so they can optimize travel. There will be fewer accidents, and traffic will move more smoothly. At safer and more consistent speeds, people will get to their destinations sooner, and they’ll use less energy to do it.

  • by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:20PM (#52117509) Journal
    Seriously, the costs of driving / mile will return to what we had back in the 60s, which was very low. What is needed now, is to raise taxes on gas/diesel slowly and invest into the infrastructure so that in the future, things will be safer.
    • by oic0 ( 1864384 )
      Be interesting to see how much lower it was in the 60s considering new cars often go twice as long on oil and last 4x as man miles. All the safety and emissions stuff definitely drove the price up though and reduced fuel mileage.
      • actually, the old cars back from the 50s and 60s lasted LONG TIME. In addition, we only paid .20-.30 / gal for gas. Dirt cheap to run. And the real reason for the high costs of cars today, is basically piss poor management that mismanaged then and now, and still get bucko bucks to continue it.

        OTOH, Tesla's Model 3 is coming and will be be dirt cheap to own. THe reason is that Tesla has a small management team, and keeps things TIGHT. In addition, they are bringing all parts inhouse so as to lower all of
  • by _KiTA_ ( 241027 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:28PM (#52117539) Homepage

    These people aren't thinking big picture. Forget a fleet of self owned self-driving cars. Yes, self-car ownership is a staple of American life right now, but it's death knell has been sounded.

    Imagine a fleet of hundreds of self driving buses, vans, et cetera. Now cross that with Uber -- request a ride, and you get put on a list of stops where the bus is going to go. Picture having to wait no more than 15 minutes for a self-driving public transportation vehicle to take you anywhere in your city, with algorithms picking the most efficient route to get who needs a ride, when they need it. Who is going to buy their own car when you can just get a public transportation pass and go anywhere?

    Hell, what government is going to allow people to drive their own cars when self-driving vehicles can drive for them? And when even self-driving self-owned cars turn out to be a detriment to the self-driving public transportation, welp...

    We don't consider horses when designing modern roadways, outside of some very specific scenarios. We're entering an era where considering manually driven cars are going to become a similar relic of the past.

    • by David_Hart ( 1184661 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:06PM (#52117679)

      Picture having to wait no more than 15 minutes for a self-driving public transportation vehicle to take you anywhere in your city, with algorithms picking the most efficient route to get who needs a ride, when they need it. Who is going to buy their own car when you can just get a public transportation pass and go anywhere?

      Hell, what government is going to allow people to drive their own cars when self-driving vehicles can drive for them? And when even self-driving self-owned cars turn out to be a detriment to the self-driving public transportation, welp...

      We don't consider horses when designing modern roadways, outside of some very specific scenarios. We're entering an era where considering manually driven cars are going to become a similar relic of the past.

      Yes, people will still buy vehicles. Why? Construction, specialized vehicles (camper trailers), towing (boats, horses, etc.), and I could go on and on. Self-driving vehicles not "owned" by individuals will work for most people who live in urban areas, but they still aren't going to work for a lot of applications. There is NO way that ALL roads will support self-driving cars. The are a large number of back country roads, dirt roads through woods, etc. that will not get the necessary infrastructure to support self-driving vehicles. So. to answer your second question, Yes, people will still have the right to drive their own vehicles. Maybe it would require specialized hardware installed (i.e. a transponder, etc.) or maybe cars will have a manual mode, but there is no way that there will be an outright ban.

    • Imagine a fleet of hundreds of self driving buses, vans, et cetera

      And every one of those is packed with other people.

      If you don't think anyone who can will want their OWN self driving pod, the they do not have to wait to ride, you are nuts.

      There will also be self-driving cars and buses, sure. But the price of a "car" will lower and more people than ever will own and use them because privacy and convenience will still be desirable for generations to come, if not forever...

    • by Opyros ( 1153335 )

      Imagine a fleet of hundreds of self driving buses, vans, et cetera.

      You know, you just missed a perfectly good opportunity for a "Beowulf cluster" joke.

  • And suppose you use your "self driving car" just to make little trips back and forth to friend like we "text" right now? Send the car with a small package, send the car with a joke, send the car... For anything?

  • Unless it's YOUR change.

    If self-driving cars enable those for whom driving became dangerous to be mobile again, then so be it. Uber is that current solution, just without the freedom of being alone in the car. And even Uber wants to go driverless.

    And if congestion is the problem, ignoring the need for roadway and capacity is the current solution, so what's the difference? Higher taxes for road improvement/construction/maintenance? Our current administration had/has the opportunity to 'invest' in infrastruc

    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      The solution to congestion is to reduce the concentration of journeys, not just increase the capacity.
      Far too many hours are wasted by people travelling to work at the same place and at the same time, and you end up with massive over capacity at all other times.
      Spread things out more, have workplaces which are closer to where people can actually live, have more people working from home, work different hours.

  • Right now all that self-driving cars are clogging is our blogs and forums. It will be awhile before we know what they'll do in the real world. A variable, still to be determined 'awhile', mind you.

    Where we live, our address wasn't even on the online mapping software until about six years ago. I'm not that expectant that a 'self driving car' will figure everything out immediately. Though I suppose they will 'learn' obscure locations by one or two manual drives there in 'learn mode.'

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:02PM (#52117667)

    If you were single why not just buy a self-driving minivan and go wherever to sleep for the night? If you could rig it with some kind of simple shower and use an RV hookup ever week or so (that could be automated to happen while you were at work) it would be a better arrangement than most cramped first apartments...

    The other thing to consider also, is that only a lot of miles built up in self-driving cars will give society the trust it needs to go ahead with the next step - self-driving flying cars (or drones if you will).

  • Right now, the people who ride city transit systems are for the most part not the same people who drive. Drivers are in the habit of using their cars whenever they can, and vote for transit only when they think that buses and trains will take people off the road and out of their way.

    But once autonomous car use becomes general, the whole culture of "my car" will be replaced by a rental culture in which people summon a car when needed for single rides. The attraction of ditching car payments, insurance paymen

  • That is really all to be said about this alarmist drivel.

  • If driverless cars are allowed as well, downtown traffic could get significantly worse: Right now, you have a choice of either use public transportation or a cab, or drive yourself and pay $$$ for premium parking.
    With self-driving cars, there will be another option: Drive your own car to your office in downtown, and then send it along to park itself in some free or much cheaper parking place on the other side of town where it can wait until you are ready to be picked up again - that alone would lead to a l
  • As well as driving the car, perhaps the software can choose an optimal time to leave so as to spread the traffic out as much as possible. Jams tend to happen where people all do the same thing at the same time (like go to work).
  • So which is it? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mal-2 ( 675116 ) on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:26AM (#52119075) Homepage Journal

    So which one are they worried about?

    People use them too much and traffic grinds to a halt?

    Or people choose to use them instead of flying because they can go over 100 mph on highways?

    It's not going to work both ways, guys.

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