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Transportation Earth

The World's Largest Cruise Ship and Its Supersized Pollution Problem (theguardian.com) 404

An anonymous reader cites a report on the Guardian: When the gargantuan Harmony of the Seas slips out of Southampton docks on Sunday afternoon on its first commercial voyage, the 16-deck-high floating city will switch off its auxiliary engines, fire up its three giant diesels and head to the open sea. But while the 6,780 passengers and 2,100 crew on the largest cruise ship in the world wave goodbye to England, many people left behind in Southampton say they will be glad to see it go. They complain that air pollution from such nautical behemoths is getting worse every year as cruising becomes the fastest growing sector of the mass tourism industry and as ships get bigger and bigger. According to its owners, Royal Caribbean, each of the Harmony's three four-storey high 16-cylinder Wartsila engines will, at full power, burn 1,377 US gallons of fuel an hour, or about 96,000 gallons a day of some of the most polluting diesel fuel in the world.
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The World's Largest Cruise Ship and Its Supersized Pollution Problem

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  • by Eloking ( 877834 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @05:42PM (#52157315)

    I hate bad journalism like this...

    "It burn 96,000 gallons a day"!! Well no shit, it's the biggest ship of the world. If you want to impress me, tell how how much fuel per passager it burn and compare it to others cruise ship. And unless it's the most efficient ship in the world, I won't see a problem.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Eloking ( 877834 )

      I hate bad journalism like this...

      "It burn 96,000 gallons a day"!! Well no shit, it's the biggest ship of the world. If you want to impress me, tell how how much fuel per passager it burn and compare it to others cruise ship. And unless it's the most efficient ship in the world, I won't see a problem.

      *unless it's the most "inefficient" ship in the world...

    • by bnmm ( 846728 )

      fwiw:

      http://www.royalcaribbeanblog.... [royalcaribbeanblog.com]

      "Harmony of the Seas will be 20% more efficient than the other two Oasis class ships, thanks to improvements in hydronamic design, a new type of engine and product enhancements"

      "Harmony of the Seas will benefit from bubbles to lessen hull friction in the water. Tiny bubbles stick to the bottom of the ship's hull so the ship literally is sailing on a cushion of air."

      The ship doesn't use port power, though, a preventable evil.

      • The ship doesn't use port power, though, a preventable evil.

        I doubt many destination ports have the infrastructure to provide sufficient, reliable power to multiple cruise ships. Heck, many of them don't even have docks big enough for the ships and passengers have to go ashore on tenders. Why bother with the logistics and complication of having a system to switch over to shore power if you can only use it on turnover day at your American port?

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        So why the hell did they not take it one step further and go with liquid natural gas. Once you are using that a fuel, then you can start processing other wastes to create methane (the main component of natural gas) and burn that. Making the vessel a whole lot more environmentally sound. So bigger cruise ships are viable as long as they start looking at more efficient and cleaner energy systems. The amount of sewerage the produce when handled properly good generate a lot of free energy for them and then be

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Total occupants is 8880. That means it burns 0.16 Gallons/(hour person).

      By contrast:

      Lets say a car gets 30 miles per gallon on the highway. That means in an hour at 60 miles per hour, the car will burn 2 gallons of fuel or 2 gallons/hour. Now lets say the car is at full capacity of 5 people. That means the car is burning 0.4 Gallons/(hour person).

      • Yeah, but the ship doesn't do 60mph, so it's not equivalent. You have to look at fuel-miles/person not not fuel-time/person.
      • by fnj ( 64210 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @07:31PM (#52157761)

        Total occupants is 8880. That means it burns 0.16 Gallons/(hour person).

        1. Your math is wrong. It's actually 1.14 gallons per passenger per hour.
        2. As others have noted, the measure of productivity is passengers per mile, not total occupants including crew per hour.
        3. The true figures are here [slashdot.org].

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Why? It's a cruise ship. It doesn't really go anywhere in specific, but it does go there for 4 or 8 or 7 days or whatever. per passenger-hour is the correct measure of efficiency. It just doesn't compare well to automobiles where per passenger-mile is the proper measure.

          Possibly someone can come up with a conversion, but it's not a straight miles-to-miles parity.

    • The problem is the type of fuel. They use bunker fuel which produces lots of pollution when burned.

      16 (or perhaps 15) of the largest container ships emit more sulphur than all of the cars in the world. I doubt that cruise liners are any cleaner -- that's why they have auxiliary engines that are used near land.

    • As my old environmental engineering professor used to quip, "The SOlution to POlution is DIlution."

      The fuel consumption is equivalent to about 200 Tons of particulate matter per day, and if there is a ship within a few miles of shore all the time with unfavorable wind conditions, that ends up being pretty continuous.

      That said, the engines are efficient, back of napkin is about 10% better per shaft HP than an efficient 2MW diesel genset. Comparing to an electric power plant, it is just over 100MW, which as

    • from the article: "Daniel Rieger, a transport officer at German environment group Nabu, said: âoeCruise companies create a picture of being a bright, clean and environmentally friendly tourism sector. But the opposite is true. One cruise ship emits as many air pollutants as five million cars going the same distance because these ships use heavy fuel that on land would have to be disposed of as hazardous waste.â

      • Clean fuel would have to be disposed of as hazardous waste.

      • One cruise ship emits as many air pollutants as five million cars going the same distance

        That's bullshit. This ship burns up to 1377 gallons for a top speed of 26 mph; that's about the same as 1500 regular passenger cars. But those cars are transporting 8500 people and enormous amounts of freight while also supplying all electricity and heating. So gas mileage is actually excellent.

        The engine no doubt emits lots of particulates, NOx, and sulfur. But that isn't a problem on the open sea. Those emissions are

        • That's bullshit. This ship burns up to 1377 gallons for a top speed of 26 mph

          Wrong.

          each of the Harmony's three four-storey high 16-cylinder WÃrtsilà engines will, at full power, burn 1,377 US gallons of fuel an hour,

          So it burns 3 * 1,377 US gallons per hour.

          • yep, still it is doing a lot more than just transporting from A- B there is also almost as many sta. It powers all the cooking, facilities, amenities, cooling, lighting, heating etc etc. The comparison needs to be between how much a normal person consumes and emits per day not how much they would emit driving that distance.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Kohath ( 38547 )

      Advocacy journalism is almost always misleading -- because informing people isn't really the goal.

    • by sootman ( 158191 )

      > If you want to impress me, tell how how much fuel per passager
      > it burn and compare it to others cruise ship.

      Um, math? From the summary: "But while the 6,780 passengers and 2,100 crew..."

      96000 / ( 6780 + 2100 ) = about 10.8 gallons per person. Although it says *each* of the 3 engines burn that much, so maybe the answer is 32.4 US gallons of fuel per person per day.

      At the lower figure, one person would have to drive over 200 miles in a car that gets 20 mpg to use that much fuel in a day. Or 600 miles

    • by fnj ( 64210 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @07:23PM (#52157747)

      The actual figures are here [wikipedia.org] if you spend 30 seconds to look them up. There are three 16-cylinder engines AND three 12-cylinder engines. The fuel consumption is actually 3x1377 + 3x1033 gallons per hour, so a total of 173,520 gallons per day. With a capacity of 6360 passengers, that's 27.3 gallons per passenger per day, or 1.14 gallons per passenger per hour. The cruising speed is 22.6 knots, which is 26.0 mph.

      So it works out to 0.0438 gallons per passenger per mile, or 22.8 mpg per passenger. That's a hell of a lot less fuel efficiency than a jetliner or passenger car at capacity, let alone a motorbus. I believe that's the point people are (clumsily) making.

    • Well no shit, it's the biggest ship of the world. If you want to impress me, tell how how much fuel per passager it burn and compare it to others cruise ship.

      Well, if you compare to other ship this is a *really inefficient* ship. And it's really weird, when you take just a couple of minute to think about it.
      Don't forget that the world doesn't stop at cruise ships.

      When you look at other ships with similar order of magnitude of tonnage ("similar" as in "roughly the same number of zeroes in the 'tonnage' item"),

      you find aircraft carriers [wikimedia.org], which are almost exclusively nuclear-powered and thus burn not a single drop of diesel and ridiculously small quantities of nucl

  • Slave labor (Score:2, Insightful)

    by John Smith ( 4340437 )
    That's not mentioning the fact that the entire staff is likely undocumented/imported, paid low wages (absurdly so), often addicted to drugs etc. Plus the whole sexual assault thing. And changing the flag to, say, Liberia. The cruise industry disgusts me.
    • Re:Slave labor (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @05:55PM (#52157367)

      That's not mentioning the fact that the entire staff is likely undocumented/imported, paid low wages (absurdly so), often addicted to drugs etc.

      Last cruise we went on, the provided a breakdown of staffing. They knew where everyone on board came from. And at least the ones we met with (my wife enjoys interaction with the staff) a lot of students who wre saving for college. The pay isn't very high, but it is clean, and the expenses are very low. So no complaints there.

      There aren't many Americans. I did have some retired colleagues who were escorts for ladies on board. They were paid similar wages, but enjoyed the hell out of the cruises. Good meals, pleasant company, and it was like Saturday evening out with a date every day of thte week.

      Your version of Cruise lines is completely bizzare and I haven't seen any of that stuff you say is likely.

      Although full disclosure - I haven't - nor will I - be on a Carnival Cruise.

      • by guises ( 2423402 )
        Speaking as someone who knows squat about cruises - why is Carnival an unacceptable option? And if they're a bad choice then what's a good choice?
        • Carnival is a party line for poor people. They target singles with low budgets. The passengers reflect this, which isn't a bad thing if that's what you are looking for but if you are a fairly well to do married couple you can do significantly better for only slightly higher cost.

          Carnival has also had significantly more issues than the other lines. Their ships have been the ones with the huge norovirus outbreak and account for about 75% of the illness outbreaks. Norovirus outbreaks occur from not washing you

        • Speaking as someone who knows squat about cruises - why is Carnival an unacceptable option? And if they're a bad choice then what's a good choice?

          Carnival's main attraction is it's low price. They also had a lot of problems a few years back - possibly related to that cheapness. There were some ship breakdowns, http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/14/... [cnn.com] and the infamous "Poop Cruise" http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/... [cnn.com]

          and morehttp://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/15/second-carnival-cruise-in-week-experiences-trouble-at-sea.html .

          I think that the situation has improved. But the cheapness being a major attraction tends to attract cheap people.

        • carnival is the cheap alternative when you can't afford a real cruise, consider it the backpacking of cruises. much lower staff to passenger ratios, less space, lower quality services and amenities.
    • by Kohath ( 38547 )

      Citation needed.

    • Frankly from your comment you've never been on a cruise ship and have the intelligence and world experience of a teenager.

      Like all ships the employees are employees of the nation who's flag flies on the ship (typically a small island nation with no real legal system). No ship is "based" in any first world country. Cruise ships that are carrying American's and Europeans are NOT flying their home ports flags. They are all based in countries where there are no labor rules and the ships (cruise, cargo, whatever

  • Bah... (Score:5, Informative)

    by sir1963nz ( 4560389 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @05:53PM (#52157361)
    A 747 burns through 3,600 Gallons of fuel per hour for just over 416 Passengers. This ship burns 1/3 of that for nearly 9000 people.
  • by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @06:04PM (#52157413)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oasis-class_cruise_ship [wikipedia.org]

    First off, those engines will only run at full power at the very start of the journey, if even then to get to, well, _cruising_ speed, which is around 22 knots, which is around 25 miles per hour. It IS a lot of fuel to use in any case - but per-person, it's not so bad as these blind numbers in headlines.

    http://business.tenntom.org/why-use-the-waterway/shipping-comparisons/ [tenntom.org]

    Bulk shipping by large ship is actually pretty efficient a method of transporting our stuff. Yeah - they often use the nasty fuel when they can get away with it - but in terms of per-unit cost, it really isn't that bad by scale. The entire transportation industry DOES need to get off carbon fuels - but compared to the fuel used to give everyone groceries and trade, the impact of vacation resources isn't that large a cost. People always eat, the extra fuel to eat on this boat isn't a very large extra percent.

    I don't think it's terribly productive to label folks taking vacations as wasteful, when really, it's our entire current system that needs to get its resource usage into a sustainable state.

    I think if you'd compare it to environmentally 'friendly' activities like touring Alaska's wildlife, it uses far less fuel per person.

    Ryan Fenton

    • The entire transportation industry DOES need to get off carbon fuels

      That might be, but it is so easy to say, so very hard to do...

      What would container ships and cruise ships use instead? Nuclear reactors strike me as the only reasonable options.

  • Plan (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @06:07PM (#52157431) Journal

    If they had named it Boaty McBoatface, they could have made enough on souvenirs to clean it up.

  • It's not diesel fuel (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jim Sadler ( 3430529 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @06:32PM (#52157551)
    Those ships burn the bottom products of the oil stack after refining. The fuel is closer to tar or asphalt that diesel. On a cold day you can actually walk on that fuel as if it is a road. And yes, using such fuels needs to be made very illegal. Anyone can do the math. Those ships could never exist if they had to use real diesel fuel as the price of passenger tickets would not equal the fuel burned on a cruise.
  • Okay, so cruise ships are the "fastest growing sector of the mass tourism industry". Aren't they the only sector of the mass tourism industry? What else is there?

    I've never really understood the appeal of a cruise ship; but obviously some others do.

  • Easy Solution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @06:42PM (#52157607) Homepage Journal
    There's an easy solution for that! Clean Atomic Energy! But then everyone'd be like "Waaaah! Waaaah! There's a floating nuclear reactor down on the dock!" Honestly, there's just no pleasing some people.
    • I'd suspect a nuclear reactor would deliver a quieter ship too. Why can't we have modern safe nuclear reactor powered ships?

      • Possibly, but these ships are diesel-electric and the diesel motors are buried deep enough inside of the hulls to be very quiet. Maybe not so much by military standards, but by passenger standards I'm not so sure.
    • Once they perfect the molten-salt reactor (MSR) design, it might be possible to eventually build a cruise ship powered by a nuclear reactor. Not only would there be way less air pollution, but it might even make it possible for even the largest cruise ships to potentially go as fast as 30 knots top speed.

      • by dbIII ( 701233 )
        Molten stuff in a ship made of metal that is prone to liquid metal embrittlement? I think the things currently in use in nuclear powered icebreakers etc are a far saner idea.
  • by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Saturday May 21, 2016 @08:12PM (#52157865)
    I never understood why people would want to go on a cruise on one of these mega-ships. They have nothing to do with nautical travel - you're no closer to the actual sea than in a beachfront hotel room. You're stuck for many days inside cramped quarters with nothing interesting to do.

    Oh, and loading/unloading process is so horrible (doubly so for international travels) that it would make TSA officials go green from envy. Waiting for half a day in line to get off that freaking ship? You betcha!

    I had misfortune to lose a raffle and get a ticket for a four-day roundtrip cruise. I left by plane from the midpoint of the trip.
    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      They have nothing to do with nautical travel - you're no closer to the actual sea than in a beachfront hotel room

      Agreed. But I don't think that is why people do it.

      You're stuck for many days inside cramped quarters with nothing interesting to do.

      Huh? I just looked for a random cruise ship, and it had: pools, waterslides, bars, clubs, restaurants, mini golf, bowling, shows, basketball courts, ice skating, 3d movies, spas, hot tubs, gyms, a shopping mall, rock climbing, ...

      But most importantly: The boat actually goes somewhere. Sometimes, it's even cheaper than a flight to the destination + an equivalent resort!

      • by Cyberax ( 705495 )

        Huh? I just looked for a random cruise ship, and it had: pools, waterslides, bars, clubs, restaurants, mini golf, bowling, shows, basketball courts, ice skating, 3d movies, spas, hot tubs, gyms, a shopping mall, rock climbing, ...

        I did say "interesting". And you've pretty much described the content of a typical mall.

        But most importantly: The boat actually goes somewhere. Sometimes, it's even cheaper than a flight to the destination + an equivalent resort!

        Except that you're not actually in a resort...

        • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

          LOL! You live in an amazing world where malls are like resorts, but you don't enjoy the kinds of things everyone else does. Sucks to be you! If you ever get a free cruise again, I'll take your ticket.

          • by Cyberax ( 705495 )
            I actually lived for a long time near a mall that had an ice rink, mini-golf, an arcade, and a spa. No swimming pool, but there are several of them nearby.
    • How do you know you waited for half a day in line to get off the ship if you left in the middle of it?
      • by Cyberax ( 705495 )
        How do you think I left it in the middle of the cruise? We stopped at a port for a day, in the middle of the trip. I was not inclined to continue the trip, so I bought an airplane ticket and went home.
  • by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Sunday May 22, 2016 @07:21AM (#52159229)

    Generally, ships use a generator to provide power and heating while the ship is docked. For a large cruise ship this generator needs to be substantial. It also runs on the same fuel as the main engines, and there are no emissions regulations for these ships.
    So everyone downwind of the docks (i.e. most of Southampton, in this case) gets to sit in a column of smoke for the entire time the ship's docked.

    The obvious solution would be to connect the ship to the shore electric grid. This is being worked on (example [polb.com]) but conversion takes time.

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