'Linux vs Windows' Challenge: Phoronix Tests Popular Games (phoronix.com) 141
An anonymous reader writes: Michael Larabel at Phoronix has combined their new results from intensive Linux/Windows performance testing for popular games on Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA graphics cards, and at different resolutions. "This makes it easy to see the Linux vs. Windows performance overall or for games where the Linux ports are simply rubbish and performing like crap compared to the native Windows game." The games tested included Xonotic, Tomb Raider, Grid Autosport, Dota 2, Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor, F1 2015, and Company of Heroes 2 -- and the results were surprising.
Xonotic v0.8 outperformed Windows with a NVIDIA card, but "The poor Xonotic performance on Linux with the Intel driver was one of the biggest surprises from yesterday's article. It's not anything we've seen with the other drivers." And while testing on the Source 2 engine revealed that Valve's Dota 2 "is a quality Linux port," most of the other results were disappointing -- regardless of the graphics card and driver. "Tomb Raider on Linux performs much worse than the Windows build regardless of your driver/graphics card... Shadow of Mordor's relative Linux performance is more decent than many other Linux games albeit still isn't running at the same speeds as the Windows games..."
The article concludes with a note of optimism. "Hopefully in due time with the next generation of games making use of Vulkan...we'll see better performance relative to Windows." Have Slashdot readers seen any performance issues while playing games on Linux?
Xonotic v0.8 outperformed Windows with a NVIDIA card, but "The poor Xonotic performance on Linux with the Intel driver was one of the biggest surprises from yesterday's article. It's not anything we've seen with the other drivers." And while testing on the Source 2 engine revealed that Valve's Dota 2 "is a quality Linux port," most of the other results were disappointing -- regardless of the graphics card and driver. "Tomb Raider on Linux performs much worse than the Windows build regardless of your driver/graphics card... Shadow of Mordor's relative Linux performance is more decent than many other Linux games albeit still isn't running at the same speeds as the Windows games..."
The article concludes with a note of optimism. "Hopefully in due time with the next generation of games making use of Vulkan...we'll see better performance relative to Windows." Have Slashdot readers seen any performance issues while playing games on Linux?
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It's called systemd
Anyone know what made them (Score:2)
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As far as my limited understanding goes: OSX ports of games involve building against many of the (open source) components included in Linux distro's. So when doing an OSX port, a Linux port is 'low hanging fruit'. Some studios may take advantage of that to do a Linux port as well. Or not... depending on title, game engine, sales, in-house developer expertise, etc etc.
The market for OSX games is small compared to Windows games, but still significant and considerably bigger than Linux gaming. So in a way,
Depends on which "various consoles" (Score:3)
The desire to release a game on both Windows and various consoles
A developer that has been approved by ID@Xbox but told "not yet" by SCE and Nintendo is likely to target Windows and Xbox One. Or in other words, Windows and Windows.
Re:Anyone know what made them (Score:5, Informative)
I can't speak for the Tomb Raider devs, but I can at least give you my general impressions from the industry.
It's a small market, certainly, and inroads remain slow. Most high profile game developers, or at least the ones I've previously worked for, never even gave it a second thought. I think that's slowing changing, although certainly not as fast as in the indie scene. My impression is that a lot of indie game devs (my own included) focus on Linux precisely because the AAA studios don't seem to care about it, so it's a more untapped market. It takes fewer sales to make an indie game profitable, so we can afford to take the time to support that platform. When your budget is tens of millions (or hundreds in the largest case these days), you have to focus on the largest market for the biggest return.
Another factor is that many large studios have in-house engines or heavily modified commercial engines, or else rely on a large number of 3rd party technologies. Developing your own Linux port is expensive, and if you're using 3rd party software, unless Linux is fully supported, a port is much less likely. Indie devs, on the other hand, are very likely to be using vanilla Unity or Unreal, which have native Linux support.
I'm probably a bit unique for indies in that I'm using a custom engine, but am still planning complete Win/UWP/Mac/Linux support, doing all the ports the hard way (only Linux remaining now). Once your engine is done, though, it's just a matter of QA and update costs, so I'm counting on that long tail to make the initial investment worthwhile.
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Offtopic but I have to ask...
Does your engine, by any chance, offer the development infrastructure for supporting space-based 3D games?
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No, it's a 2D tile-based engine. Normal commercial engines can handle typical 3D scenarios, but I had some very specific ideas about how I wanted my tile-based games to work, and none of the commercial engines worked the way I had envisioned.
Unless you've got some very specific requirements that make it impractical, or unless you're a *very* large company that can afford to write your own engine, it's generally a better idea to use a commercial game engine.
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Thank you, it didn't hurt to ask :)
Re:Anyone know what made them (Score:5, Informative)
It's a small market, certainly, and inroads remain slow. Most high profile game developers, or at least the ones I've previously worked for, never even gave it a second thought. I think that's slowing changing, although certainly not as fast as in the indie scene.
A good question is still: Why? According to Steam's survey [steampowered.com] 95.42% run Windows, 3.60% Mac and 0.84% Linux - not sure where the last 0.14% went. The number of Linux gamers is not budging, it's the same hardcore 1% that's used it on the desktop for the last decade. Unless Valve starts to get serious about Steam Machines and Linux I really don't see much of a business case...
Input problem with Android vs. consoles (Score:3)
we already want to make the game as reasonably portable as possible so we can put in on PC, consoles, and possibly mobile--ie, often Android.
I don't see how one game can work well on both consoles and mobile, especially if isn't inherently a point-and-click game. Consoles have a thumbstick and buttons as their primary input device. The vast majority of Android devices* have a touch screen. If you try to adapt a game designed for a thumbstick and buttons to a touch screen the trivial way, by putting a D-pad and buttons on a flat sheet of glass the way emulators do, you get something like Pixeline and the Jungle Treasure [google.com]. It's a platformer in th
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First games, then performance (Score:2)
I'm not worried about performance, so much as the games. I have Mint 17.3 on most of my PCs, and I can't play Fallout 4, Dark Souls 3, and GTAV. Bring the games, the performance will fallow.
Windows to linux ports are crap. (Score:5, Interesting)
Moral of the story: develop in linux and port to Windows, you could compete with native windows apps. Develop in windows and port to linux, you would be lucky if it just runs.
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Leave games, take high performance engineering analysis done by CAD/CAM design analysis tools.
What I meant to say was: Ignore the things that matter to people who play games, instead look at this completely irrelevant thing over here.
Ultimately it doesn't matter who's fault poor performance is, just that the performance is poor. Telling people to do without something they want seems to have been the major marketing point of Linux since the 90s. It hasn't worked so far, maybe it would be better if effort was spent improving the ports.
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The performance has to be acceptable to someone that just wants to have fun. That may even include actual Windows users.
"inferior" can cover a lot of ground both in terms of "fitness" and the available software library.
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Which software is that, and which industry (aerospace, mechanical, AEC)? I work for a company that makes BIM software (that isn't Revit) and would be interested in a best-in-class physics library.
Q n A (Score:2)
> Have Slashdot readers seen any performance issues while playing games on Linux?
Which games? Most games for Linux are Indies and Linux runs them just fine.
Under Linux you won't be able to play the native versions of Overwatch, Doom 4, Quantum Break, or any version of GTA, CoD, Battlefield, Colin McRay Rally, Crysis, Deus Ex, FarCry, Hitman, Mafia etc. etc. etc.
Re: Q n A (Score:1)
Actually I have played the first three Far Crys, Mafia 1 and 2, several Gta games, and Deus Ex. I ran them with Wine. Sadly I can't play Fallout 4 but most others do work.
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Actually I have played the first three Far Crys, Mafia 1 and 2, several Gta games, and Deus Ex. I ran them with Wine. Sadly I can't play Fallout 4 but most others do work.
Which usually provides a subpar performance since efficient D3D to OpenGL translation is nigh impossible. Also forget about D3D 10/11/12 games altogether.
What about D3D 9.0c? Some games run at 1/5 native speed under Wine. Most others barely hit 50%. There are often glitches, artifacts, crashes and bad behaviour. I wouldn't call that gaming. It's torturing at best.
Sure, but I was responding to a claim that they wouldn't run - which my own empirical experience tells me is false.
Generally the performance under Wine has been good enough for me. I'm using an old 1280x1024 LCD panel. I'm not trying to drive a 4k display at 200 fps. "Most" games I run are much better than 50%, though a few have been problematic. I don't generally get glitches, likely because I know what winetricks is for. It also helps to give each game its own wine prefix. Still, my attitude is that
Re:Q n A (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the games currently played on steam:
Current Max today
646,219 1,099,697 Dota 2
525,059 535,298 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
71,194 71,655 ARK: Survival Evolved
70,252 70,252 Sid Meier's Civilization V
65,985 66,079 Football Manager 2016
62,039 64,762 Team Fortress 2
57,520 57,795 Garry's Mod
54,727 55,830 Rocket League
54,280 60,794 Grand Theft Auto V
45,628 45,628 Arma 3
Only the last 3 games is not availble for Linux. Top-7 of those games are available for Linux gamers.
So most of the game you call top-tiered are not among the most played games.
And the gamers today play alot of a bit older and more popular games.
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Unfortunately quoting the top played Steam games for the day does not really say what you think/want it to say. Of those top seven games, four share the same game engine (CS:GO, DoTA2, Gary's Mod, and TF2) and honestly can be looked at as mods for HL2. So your "Top 10" list is really a "Top 7" list. Of those seven games only a little better than half are available for Linux.
The second problem with those numbers is availability for Linux does not give any information about the number of those players running
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Calling five out of seven "only a little better than half" is rather misleading.
You really have no place to call out "grossly misleading figures".
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Does anyone run SteamOS?
I'd personnally put it under 1% of linux desktop users.
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Steam also runs well enough under Wine, many windows-only Steam games work well, with same frame rates.
E.g. for Trackmania 2, I get exactly the same frame rate in Linux, using nvidia, as native under Windows.
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There are also ones that work flawlessly like everything from Valve, FTL, Torchlight II, Robocraft(awesome game in case you haven't tried it, and free), Kerbal Space Program(had some rough spots for a while, but working great now), and Bastion.
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"It makes zero sense for a game studio to waste effort bringing the game to Linux."
It's not the game studios themselves that are doing the porting.
Specialized companies like Feral Interactive [wikipedia.org] (native), Aspyr [wikipedia.org] (native) and Virtual Programming [wikipedia.org] (wrapper) do that work.
In many of these cases they already make ports for OS X, so they are familiar with the code.
(If you are really interested - I doubt you are - you could listen to this interview [steamlug.org] with Edwin of Feral Interactive.)
Steam has over 125 million registered
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Linux looks a lot bigger to a Mac porting shop than it does to Electronic Arts. They're both closer to each other than either of them is to Windows.
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Yeah, I guess if you are already wasting resources porting something to mac you might as well port it to Linux too.
I kid I kid. At least a little bit I kid.
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Lol, so once you get it working 10% or so of the market they get the other 1.79% for free? Still a waste of time.
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It's not for free, though. They have to support the Linux version, which requires having trained technical support staff and an entire Linux testing facility to ensure it actually works as they are advertising it to. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is...
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Unless you've got developer credits, you're just a poser talking out his ass.
Dota on Linux/Windows (Score:3)
I've got Win 8.1 and Linux in a dualboot setup on my computer and have been playing Dota 2 on both OSes. Performance on Linux has been on par with Windows and since the latest couple of patches I've seen the Linux client run even a few frames faster on average than the Windows one. On most other games the performance on Linux has been really problematic, though. The only other game I've seen run on my Linux perfectly is Natural Selection 2. The devs of NS2 have really put a lot of effort in developing the game further even though it's been over four years since its release.
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The problem isn't even performance (Score:3)
The problem is support for gaming hardware.
There is no gaming culture on Linux. At least not yet. And this is why few makers of gaming hardware bother to produce drivers for their devices. And those where such drivers exist, they're usually not on par with the drivers for Windows. From input devices like flight sticks, steering wheels and high resolution mice to output devices like 7.1 audio cards and headphones. Either they don't work at all or you can at best get a token support out of it.
Would you like playing F1 2005 if the force feedback on your wheel doesn't work? How much fun is playing a FPS game when the audio is reduced to a half baked stereo output that doesn't give you any information about the attacker's location?
Performance only starts becoming an issue once you actually want to play the game on that system.
Xonotic (Score:3)
If you haven't played it you're missing out. Although Minsta-Hook is not my cup of tea, if you love flying around like Spiderman with a insta kill laser in your hand this is for you. Xon has Vehicles, Jet Packs and Overkill Mod too. My fav since its mine is my Shotgun only server Called Mofo with a Shogtun. With wall jumping and crazy pushback force from the bullets to make your enemies fly back fast and die while hitting a wall :) or just fly back off the map and of course die....
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No, anyone who hasn't played Xonotic isn't missing out. It's not that it's a bad game, it's just that it has almost no player base. Where I live for example (Australia) there are ZERO players in the evening, the prime time for gaming. I'm not sure what was the last time I've seen Australian servers with anyone playing. Even ignoring local servers, the total player count at any given time isn't much to talk about.
It ain't just Xonotic which has this problem. Red Eclipse has no player base, Warsow has no play
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Well the player base is Eurocentric which does suck but.... Also the game is quite playable with high ping. I use to cap quite often on the EAC Minsta server with 180 ping.
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Open Arena has two uses : to check that your OpenGL works (because glxgears is too fast) and to fill precious available space on the / partition (your system gets at least semi-unusable if it's filled up)
It's also a warning about how gaming on an AZERTY keyboard can suck if the devs didn't plan or test for it.
It's semi-useful if you have access to a small LAN of old desktops and want to play some Free deathmatch on it while wishing you had real Quake 3.
It's not the primary platform, it's gonna suffer (Score:2)
'Nobody' cares about gaming on Linux (statistically - I know a few companies do), so the drivers are always going to be lagging and the ports are mostly going to be half-hearted, and Vulkan won't fix that. Probably the biggest issue is a lack of something like Direct X to make things easy - being Linux, there are multiple competing standards for it.
It's why all my servers are Linux but the gaming machine is Windows. When I want to play a game, I just want it to work without messing with WINE configs or havi
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These games are "indie" but can realistically only reach their market, especially with linux, by being distributed on Steam.
Perhaps developers can target the "Steam Runtime" while not using Steam. No idea how they should be sold or DRM'ed then, but if there's a middleman it's not as indie as it was in the 90s.
Games are still the crux (Score:3)
Indeed (Score:2)
I'm in the same boat with others, The game I play the most is 7 Days to Die. Being based on Unity, it actually runs better on my Linux installation than it did on my old Win7.
Linux gaming is definitely becoming more of a reality especially due to Valve pushing the Steam Machine. Even though that's not gaining much traction, it is ushering in games that support, or are developed for Linux. Half of my 400 Steam games are SteamOS/Linux compatible, and that ratio seems to be growing.
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As a real Canadian (unlike the coward AC who keeps posting that stupid thing), I would like to apologize for this non-Canadian troll.
Re: LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, look at our cellphone plans, our cellular and wired Internet speeds, our monthly quotas and how much we pay for it. As far as telecommunications are concerned, we already are a 3rd world country.
Re: Games on Linux will always run poorly (Score:2)
I have Gentoo on my desktop, Mint on my laptops. Both include proprietary codecs like x264. Both make it trivial to install proprietary nvidia drivers through the package manager, like any other package. Even distros like Debian that don't come with them out of the box still have repos and installation tools readily available.
Your experience does not represent all of Linux. But you seem to think it does. That's just ignorant.
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Then you're all wrong. The linked article merely proves that Linux is not considered a primary development platform yet for games, especially by game makers (who aren't optimizing things). The article even mentions that they believe Vulkan will help improve the situation vastly. Last I checked, none of these things had anything to do with the post that started this conversation, nor does it show that Linux/OSS developers in general have anything to do with it. It merely shows that driver and game devs aren'
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Proprietary drivers are part of most repositories, and that includes mainstream distros like Ubuntu. Only distros that use only free software won't include them, but if you use one of those that's exactly what you want. You can still install the driver if it isn't in the repositories, but then you have to to it the hard way and download it from the vendor's website like a barbarian.
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Re:This can't be true (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the Linux evangelists here, Linux is better at everything and can do no wrong. Therefore the data must be wrong or there must have been a flaw in the tests. It cannot possibly be true that Linux is inferior at anything.
I'm a long-time Linux user and it seems like a fair test to me. Gaming has long been one of the weakest parts of having Linux on the desktop. Data like this is how that can change. Only a few years ago, no one would have thought to publish an article like this, so in my mind, lots of progress has already been made. That will take time. Meanwhile it's always been the case, that if gaming is a killer feature for you, then you go with the platform that all the major games are targeting, which is Windows.
For me, gaming is nice but it's not crucial. I'm satisfied running older games via Wine and I'm satisfied with native Linux games that are already out there. I like the way that number keeps increasing. But I have no illusions: a hardcore gamer would be better off with Windows, at least on his/her main gaming rig. Of course, that person would also have to put up with the constant malware threats, the nuisance of Windows Update, the lack of a central package manager, and the general asshattery of Microsoft including its desire to spy on its paying customers. Decisions like these are trade-offs.
Not everyone is an unreasonable fanboy. I use Linux because I like it and it meets my needs. Full stop. I'm not part of "Tribe A" and we don't have to hate some perceived "Tribe B". It's really that simple.
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https://xkcd.com/606/ [xkcd.com]
That is pretty much what gaming on Linux amounts to if you want to talk about games with your friends still on Windows.
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Once you say that AAA == CoD / Battlefield you instantly lose all credibility.
Re:This can't be true (Score:5, Interesting)
Thank you for a reasoned post which tells things as they are. I also use Linux because it meets my needs. I don't pretend that it's for people who want the highest performance from the latest games or anything approaching that. There are games for Linux (and more all the time) but I would hardly call it a gamer's platform.
And Linux not being a gamer's platform is not a problem. Gamers should use platforms suited to their purposes. I don't tout Linux as the One Solution That Fits All.
Linux is useful to me for getting things done. That's all I need.
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I would consider his post borderline trolling.
Linux has gotten MUCH better about gaming. It used to be a no man's land. Now it's only a partial no man's land. Steam is where most stuff is at (and limited to). So it's much like the Mac situation.
The Steam store is open for anyone to browse.
Re:This can't be true (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This can't be true (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't pretend that it's for people who want the highest performance from the latest games or anything approaching that.
But if you look at the Dota2 Vulkan and the Unigine results, it is approaching that. Vulkan on Linux within 1.5% of windows on AMD and 9% on nVidia. Not that OpenGL is any slouch - Unigine OpenGL are within 9% of windows DirectX, showing the huge difference between native support and translation layers. But developers already voted with their allegiance: few had the luxury of supporting two dissimilar rendering platforms and almost all picked the one with the biggest market and modest performance advantage.
That equation changes now. See this this [youtube.com] or this [youtube.com] if you have any doubts. The new equation is, if you want one platform that delivers top performance across Android and Windows you go with Vulkan, end of story. Desktop Linux is the lucky beneficiary of that.
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The new equation is, if you want one platform that delivers top performance across Android and Windows you go with Vulkan, end of story. Desktop Linux is the lucky beneficiary of that.
Would be nice if it was true, but it isn't. from what has been seen of benchmarks vulkan gives you great performance cross platform but DX12+ will give better performance on windows. It will come down to the Age old fight of DX vs OpenGL, nothing has really changed, nor has there suddenly become a great reason to jump from one to the other. Windows desktop is still the primarily gaming market and with that DX.
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from what has been seen of benchmarks vulkan gives you great performance cross platform but DX12+ will give better performance on windows
Given that Vulkan and DX12 are both derived from AMD's Mantle, you are blowing smoke. It's a safe bet which one is better designed, also which one will be more widely deployed (hint: handsets outnumber desktops by a wide and increasing margin).
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Given MS can tune specifically for Windows while Vulkan needs to remain somewhat generic then DX will always have a performance advantage even when working with basically the same concepts
Sorry, you lost me here. The entire concept of Vulkan (and DX12, both being derived from Mantle) is to run as close to the hardware as possible, so where does your imagined performance advantage come from?
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Of course, that person would also have to put up with the constant malware threats, the nuisance of Windows Update, the lack of a central package manager, and the general asshattery of Microsoft including its desire to spy on its paying customers.
#1 has never been a problem, it's extremely difficult to catch malware if you use legit sources for games, software and media. Fir everything else there's isolated VMs to do crazy stuff on.
#2 is NOT a nuisance, if you care to spend 2 minutes configuring it properly.
#3 is actually a strong point IMO.
#4 is easily avoided if you download one of the many available simple tools and spend 2 minutes clicking on checkboxes.
Re:This can't be true (Score:5, Informative)
If there is no central package manager, you can't trust somebody else to care about minimum security for you.
So in windows, if I need to batch re-size images, if I google "linux image resize", image-magick is in the first page.
"windows image resize" has a lot more of noise, so a user will probably download a demo with water marks, need to pay for a well known program or download a program from a non legit sources.
It's clear that the average linux user is more skilled that the average windows user, and that the most important linux tools are open source and available for windows.
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You still trust somebody else even if there's a central package manager. Unless you build that package manager yourself, from source code, and analyze every line of code.
And #1 and #4 are not mutually exclusive, there are things such as trusted software repositories (been working well for the last two decades), on top of that there's antivirus solutions.
If you want to batch resize images, there's a very nice command-line based solution called PhotoResize, there: http://www.rw-designer.com/pic... [rw-designer.com]
Yes it takes
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Under Windows, hopefully the user will have found out about IrFanView or XnView to deal with collections of pictures (if only to view them) and then will look for functions in the menus to find about batch resizing.
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Of course, that person would also have to put up with the constant malware threats, the nuisance of Windows Update, the lack of a central package manager, and the general asshattery of Microsoft including its desire to spy on its paying customers.
#1 has never been a problem, it's extremely difficult to catch malware if you use legit sources for games, software and media. Fir everything else there's isolated VMs to do crazy stuff on. #2 is NOT a nuisance, if you care to spend 2 minutes configuring it properly. #3 is actually a strong point IMO. #4 is easily avoided if you download one of the many available simple tools and spend 2 minutes clicking on checkboxes.
Well, starting with Windows 8 there is a central package manager - it's called the Microsoft Windows Store (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows?icid=en_US_Store_UH_apps_Win). *But* it has it's own issues - regarding licensing, usages, and more. They do (did?) have a relatively friendly Open-Source policy, but primarily to try to grab market share; however, even that hasn't really helped them gain any traction.
And yet people still complain...And no, I'm no fan of it.
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According to the Linux evangelists here, Linux is better at everything and can do no wrong./p>
Nope. There is plenty that's wrong with Linux. Trouble is, there is even more wrong with the alternatives. Then perhaps I am just a Linux user, not an evangelist.
Anyway, its no surprise that Windows is still better at games.
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I wouldn't call the Grid Autosport port "rubbish". If anything, it's good enough that I want to spend extra money on a better controller.
Of course I would laugh at the idea of using Intel for gaming. Athough AMD has potential. At least they don't have crap hardware.
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According to the Linux evangelists here, Linux is better at everything
Better at everything. Except gaming. And productivity. But other than that...
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Vectorworks and Creative Cloud are the big two that I can't do my job without.
Know who you're trolling (Score:2, Insightful)
> I wonder which group of Slashdotters will rule this time. The ones that say Linux sucks and systemd is the devil, or the ones that say they've used Linux since the 80s and everything else is a pile of shit.
Know who you're trolling. It's the people who have used Linux (or Unix) for a little while who see the problems with systemd. Those who think "Linux sucks" (Steve Ballmer and three others) are midnless Windows fanatics. Therefore they love the systemd/MS Office approach of putting every function an