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Clinton: It's 'Heartbreaking' When IT Workers Must Train H-1B Replacements (computerworld.com) 482

dcblogs writes: Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, on Monday criticized the replacement of U.S. IT workers with foreign labor but stopped short of offering a plan to fix it. In a videotaped interview with Vox, Clinton appears empathetic and sympathetic to IT workers who have trained their foreign replacements as a condition of severance. She mentioned IT layoffs at Disney, specifically. "The many stories of people training their replacements from some foreign country are heartbreaking, and it is obviously a cost-cutting measure to be able to pay people less than what you would pay an American worker," said Clinton in the interview. Keith Barrett, a former IT worker Disney who was among those replaced by contractors, was not happy with Clinton's comments."She starts off as if she understands the problem, but then dismisses it as collateral damage not of significant volume to address, and blends in the problem of illegal immigrant labor, which is mostly working in unskilled labor," said Barrett.
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Clinton: It's 'Heartbreaking' When IT Workers Must Train H-1B Replacements

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  • by exabrial ( 818005 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:21AM (#52496797)
    It's Heartbreaking you're not in Jail.
    • by bondsbw ( 888959 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:31AM (#52496887)

      It's heartbreaking that this is news. I also don't like it, and I also don't have a plan to fix it, but you don't see me quoted in the news.

      • by Thelasko ( 1196535 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @01:04PM (#52497767) Journal

        It's heartbreaking that this is news. I also don't like it, and I also don't have a plan to fix it, but you don't see me quoted in the news.

        The fix is rather simple really. Minimum salary for H1-B visas is $100k/yr. The way it is now, companies have to pay a "prevailing wage" that is very easy to manipulate. Just using a blanket, but high wage simplifies the process and makes it harder to cheat.

        I admit, the $100k number I chose is rather arbitrary. I suppose a more precise statistical method could be used (e.g. poverty threshold x4, or greater than 90% of individual income). Additionally, there should be adjustment factors based on location (California and New York must pay more).

  • #BernOrBust (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TFlan91 ( 2615727 )

    #BernOrBust

    I am shamed that Bernie would endorse Clinton, as a NH resident, I feel even worse we have to host the event he is going to endorse her in - what CNN and NPR would at this point consider already done with a bow tied around it.

    Clinton is just as wrong as Trump.

    #BernOrBust

    • Re:#BernOrBust (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:59AM (#52497109)

      It might be fun to say that Clinton and Trump are equally bad, but from where I'm standing that's just nuts.

      We know pretty much exactly what we'll be getting from a Hillary presidency - eight more years of the same thing we got from Presidents Obama and Clinton.

      With a Trump presidency what do we get? Four years of incoherent policy that shifts on a weekly basis.and wrecks relations with pretty much every foreign state (except maybe Russia, since Trump holds Putin in such high regard).

  • Trans-Pacific Partnership will just kill jobs so bad that any gains by banning H1b's will be wiped out.

  • I find it heartbreaking that in these egregious cases politicians don't speak out against it as well as attorney generals don't prosecute people for violating the law. If you are training your replacement then it is obvious that there is an American capable of doing the job and that a H-1B holder should not have it. I have written my polished turds of elected representatives on this issue and from most I got a non response (thank you for contacting your congressman or senator form letter) or a letter blaming republicans for blocking last year's comprehensive immigration law that would have expanded the H-1B program (thanks Amy Klobuchar you ignorant senator of small things)
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I don't understand how companies survive trying to do it. Surely the people being replaced have little motivation to properly train their replacements, and some to actively sabotage them with misinformation and careful omission. Have any of these companies had catastrophic problems after downgrading their staff?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Training your replacement is demoralizing ...... I had to do it twice before being laid off...it sucks. However, that having been said - it's not the fault of the guy replacing you that your company is going in the direction it is. There was no reason for me to take my aggravation out on the guy I was training, it wasn't his fault. Not always an easy thing to do. Just my .02
        • while at a buffet lunch (all you can eat), it occurred to me: the convention in that kind of restaurant is to not allow the customers to take home leftovers even though it seem wasteful to throw out whatever you didn't finish on your plate.

          the reason: they don't want to start a precident; they all collude to 'teach' you that you have no right to take that one final partial plate of food with you. if they all stand together and tell each customer that tries, 'no, you cant take that with you' then they all a

          • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @02:22PM (#52498489)

            You mean a group of employees banding together to get better working conditions? When has that ever worked </sarcasm>

            • I like to use the weak nuclear analogy for unions. When the workers organize to protect their own interests is time zero, and the union they form is 100% for their benefit. At some point in the future, the union is 100% run for the benefit of the union's "leadership", and not at all for the workers that formed it, contributed to it, etc.

              It isn't as accurate as the real nuclear analogy, but the progression between these two states seems, very roughly, to follow a fixed curve, and we can calculate the half-

    • I find it heartbreaking that in these egregious cases politicians don't speak out against it as well as attorney generals don't prosecute people for violating the law. If you are training your replacement then it is obvious that there is an American capable of doing the job and that a H-1B holder should not have it. I have written my polished turds of elected representatives on this issue and from most I got a non response (thank you for contacting your congressman or senator form letter) or a letter blaming republicans for blocking last year's comprehensive immigration law that would have expanded the H-1B program (thanks Amy Klobuchar you ignorant senator of small things)

      But the Americans are not capable of doing the job at the desired pay grade!

    • Perhaps Mrs. Clinton has observed that discussing any aspect of immigration in a negative way makes her more like Donald Trump -- a man whom she very often implies is pretty much the worst thing ever.

      It's a bit interesting that when Mrs. Clinton talks negatively about immigration, she's described as empathetic for Americans.

      Contrastingly, when Donald Trump talks about immigration, he's described as a racist.

      I think people are wise to be suspicious of anyone running for public office. But, of Clinton, Johnson, and Trump, Trump is the only one that has ever said he wants to limit and reform immigration for the benefit of Americans who are seeking American jobs. He's also the one talking about punishing American companies who engage in behaviors that subvert American workers and jobs so replace them with foreign workers and jobs.

      http://www.computerworld.com/a... [computerworld.com]

      If you are upset with companies abusing immigration law to the detriment of American workers, and you wish someone would finally do something about it, Trump would seem like your candidate.

      This election promises to be another "hold your nose" affair, but there do seem to be legitimate differences in what the candidates want to accomplish and how they want to do it.

  • From the article (Score:4, Insightful)

    by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:28AM (#52496855) Journal

    Clinton is making it clear that for Democrats, immigration is an issue primarily about Latino voters --- not tech donors. The tech industry has sometimes thought of itself as first among equals when it comes to the "immigration reform" coalition --- now thereâ(TM)s reason for it to worry it might be last. ...

    Some in the tech industry continue to nurture the hope that Congress can come together to pass a bill that just expands high-skilled visas, avoiding the political thicket of other immigration reforms. (During President Obamaâ(TM)s first term, bills to increase high-skilled visas were actually the closest to immigration reform that Congress came, though they were voted down by Democrats.) ...

    But itâ(TM)s still impossible to miss the message: Tech, and everyone else, needs to take a back seat to unauthorized immigrants and their families (millions of whom, of course, are US citizens and voters).

    Yea. That makes sense. So she has not deviated from her "Say anything to get elected" course. Shocker.

    (Note: I replaced â" with --- because quote didn't like it)

  • But hey, what's a little law breaking among protected elites, right Hillary?

  • And for contrast (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:33AM (#52496903) Homepage Journal

    Clinton: It's 'Heartbreaking' When IT Workers Must Train H-1B Replacements

    For contrast, here's what Donald Trump said recently [cnn.com]

    [Referring to problems within the Veteran's Administration] "I will pick up the phone and fix it myself"

    Look at Hillary's positions [hillaryclinton.com] and see if they give you a warm, fuzzy feeling of goodness.

    Look at Trump's positions [donaldjtrump.com] and see if they describe specific changes and actions.

    Hillary is "stay the course", and Trump is "make changes".

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      When has Trump actually done anything besides (1) declare bankruptcy for his businesses, (2) screw his vendors, and (3) generally squander his daddy's inheritence? I'm all for a guy who actually can get things done (Hello Roger Penske!) but Trump is not that guy by a mile, no matter what and how he boasts.
      • by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:13PM (#52497217)
        One doesn't have to like Trump to recognize that you're BSing.

        1) Yes, some of his ventures have been failures. Just like MOST BUSINESSES, the majority of which fail. But more of his haven't. How are YOUR businesses doing? Your assertion that he's done nothing but bankrupt businesses is demonstrably false.

        2) Screwed vendors? He runs large, sprawling businesses that buy goods and services from thousands of vendors and contractors. People line up to sell his businesses those things, and make money doing so. If he "screwed" more than a small number of them with which he was having disputes over the timing, quality, or delivery of those goods and services, he wouldn't be able to find anyone to sell his businesses what those businesses need to survive. There ARE businesses like that, or were ... since such businesses cannot exist for long. Cherry pick away! But your assertion that he's done nothing but screw vendors is demonstrably false.

        3) Squander his inheritance? So, that should leave him with less money than he got from his family, right? Which is demonstrably not true, or even close to true. So again, you're lying.

        There are plenty of things about him to dislike. Why lie about stuff that's plainly not true?
    • by scamper_22 ( 1073470 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:59AM (#52497115)

      I've mentioned this to other people. I'm Canadian, but I catch Trump on the news.

      Maybe he is lying. Maybe he is a complete buffoon. I really don't know.

      What I do know is that he at least addresses people's biggest concerns.

      Hilary's reaction is pretty much the same as every modern politician I've seen. Same as the progressives in Canada (Trudeau, Wynn...). It basically says, yes it is tragic, but we live in a globalized world now. At best, they throw in patriotic jargon about education and how we can out compete the other billions of people. And to top it off, they'll keep borrowing and taxing to keep their friends in the public sector and banking sector doing well. We're all just collateral damage.

      Meanwhile I caught Trump's famous 'unhinged' mosquito speech and he talks about Carrier air conditioning moving their plants to Mexico and the pain of the workers.

      Hey, maybe is just a fascist idiot, but if the mainstream politicians really don't give a crap and normal hardworking private sector people...well...he's looking like the only sane choice; now that Bernie is out; for anyone with such concerns.

      • Re:And for contrast (Score:4, Interesting)

        by doconnor ( 134648 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:54PM (#52497651) Homepage

        Fellow Canadian here.

        Just because he "addresses" real concerns doesn't mean his "solutions" won't make things worse then the status quo.

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          All change involves risk. You cannot change for the better without some risk. Some ideas are riskier than others, of course, but "actually control immigration for one" seems as conservative as a change can be.

      • Every snake oil merchant addresses the ailments very clearly.
    • Yep, Trump has lots of ideas, like shutting down the terrorist internet: http://www.cnet.com/news/donal... [cnet.com]

  • by Anonymous Coward

    And so is Donald Trump. Both are hideously wrong for America at this time. Electing Donald is like playing Russian Roulette with a revolver with one round. You have a chance. Electing Hillary is like playing Russian Roulette with a fully-loaded revolver. You're fucked no matter what happens.

    Why cannot this country of 330 million people come up with better candidates? WTF is wrong with people. We should do what Australia does and voting should be compulsory. If people were forced to go out and cast their bal

    • Sign of the times: people who voted against Brexit are considering taking on other European nationalities and we may see some US Americans looking north of the border for future prospects. How did we get to a point where we have both an uninformed population and a group of politicians that we realise we are screwed no matter what we do?

      I believe part of the issue in the US electoral system is that it requires too much money to play and even then the inner-workings may hurt you. Take Bernie as an example, ev

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:36AM (#52496921)

    And here I was, just getting over the foul taste from puking all over the "compassionate conservative" bullshit, now I get a heartbroken Hillary.

    Believe me, sweetheart, should anyone decide to put you out of your misery, we'll all be about as heartbroken as you're right now.

  • There are two options this should cause, but wont. Option A is that all of her American IT staff could just quit, and refuse to work for her. Force her to use those H1B visa people to run her campaign. Option B would be to be the best IT staff the world has ever seen. Put in triple redundant backups of everything. When congress requests X Y or Z scandal's emails there will be a Nixonian level of data minus those conspicuous missing minutes.
    • by Chrisq ( 894406 )

      There are two options this should cause, but wont. Option A is that all of her American IT staff could just quit, and refuse to work for her. Force her to use those H1B visa people to run her campaign.

      I hear that she can set up mail servers quite well herself

  • by rahvin112 ( 446269 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @11:46AM (#52496985)

    Anyone training their H1-B replacement has witnessed a crime. This is an illegal abuse of the H1-B system and it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Any company, including groups like Tata should be in jail for what they are doing. Congress should put an automatic criminal penalty of $1million per employee and Justice should target any company that can be shown to be doing it.

    • Paying you off (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:06PM (#52497151)

      Anyone training their H1-B replacement has witnessed a crime.

      I would say anyone doing that has no spine. Yes you might have to give up a severance package. But if you take that package you are saying you can be bought for the cost of the package. Personally I prefer to not dig my own grave. Now if the severance package has two commas in the number that's a different story because then they aren't paying me to train my replacement, they are paying me to retire.

      And yes, forcing people to train there replacements should be illegal without question. H1Bs are for when they cannot find domestic talent. If they are training their replacement then clearly the talent already exists domestically. You have to be a serious reptile to even ask people to do this sort of thing.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      You cannot keep an economy going with laws. The only thing this would cause is companies leaving the US altogether. While I am unsure how this problem can be fixed and whether it can be fixed at all, this is certainly not the way.

  • Is it heart breaking to program a robot to do your job? Because that happens much more than H1B replacements.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/meet-the-new-generation-of-robots-for-manufacturing-1433300884 [wsj.com]

    "[The new robots] are nimbler, lighter and work better with humans. They might even help bring manufacturing back to the U.S...."
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Funny how they say "might even help bring manufacturing back to the U.S.", but it does not mean "bring jobs back to the US". I wonder how many people missed that little problem.

  • I've been hearing about H1-B visa issues on slashdot since I joined and my uid is 5000. And quite honestly, I've never understood it. If you keep up your skills and progress beyond basic tech support or other low-level paper-pushing jobs this is never an issue.

    In my experience, people with H1-B visas fill one of two scenarios: needs and costs.

    The first is where a company needs more staff because they are always hiring. This would be like a Google or Facebook where they need smart, capable staff and can't fi

    • It's a matter of people not understanding economics, at all. They want to keep paying huge amounts of money for $9,000 cell phones and $600/month service with no data and hardly an hour of talk so they don't have to fear being removed from their job to get those prices down. It's how Karl Marx wanted an economy run.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      The problem with that is that you are far above average. The average IT person learns slowly and has trouble learning new things in the first place. They still need to eat and be able to live decently, same as everybody else or society breaks down. Sure, one problem is too many mediocre people in IT in the first place, but that is what they have learned and now somehow need to be able to do.

    • This is wrong in so many ways. I have seen very skilled people leads, architects, etc layed off to be replaced either by HB1 visa or complete offshoring. Its not a matter of skills, its a matter of money.
    • Wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by khasim ( 1285 ) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:16PM (#52497255)

      No, there is nothing about you or your skills that is so unique that you cannot be replaced.

      And if your severance package depends upon you teaching your replacement how to do your job (see Disney), you are even easier to replace.

      I have skills that are useful and hard to find.

      They may be useful, but they are not hard to find.

      And yeah, I get that sucks. But the solution is to learn more skills so you can get the first type of job.

      Unless you personally are working for Google or Facebook that kind of invalidates your position. You aren't so rare that Google is fighting to get you.

      Look up "confirmation bias". You think that because your decisions have resulted in your position that anyone who has not achieved that position has made incorrect decisions. The reality is that when a company wants to cut their IT costs to save money, your skills will have nothing to do with their decision.

    • Re:Get better skills (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jeff4747 ( 256583 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:39PM (#52497469)

      I'm a 45 year old developer. I've learned more programming languages post-college than I learned in college. I've taken courses on managing development teams. I've read tons of books on various aspects of tech. I have skills that are useful and hard to find.

      I'm of a similar age, and with a similar skillset. I've been replaced by H1B workers - it took two do do my job.

      Congratulations on your good luck, and I hope it holds out.

    • Again, nonsense. Currently a full 50% of entry-level jobs go to H-1B visa holders. And don't come back with the crap about that being against the law--it happens all the time and no one is ever prosecuted.
  • Like any self-respecting con-person would.

    At this time, the choice of candidates for president in the US is "very bad" and "somewhat worse" (your choice which is which).

  • ...which you obtain in a compressed timescale from the person you replace. Job done!
  • Just curious have any of you been faced with having to train an H-1B and told their now-former employer where to put it? Would refusing to train an H-1B cause issues for future employment?

  • by curmudgeon99 ( 1040054 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:09PM (#52497179)
    I am a lifelong Democrat and it is Hillary's stance on the H-1B that will prevent me from voting for her. Seriously, she will not get my vote over this one issue. I even donated cash 8 times to President Obama's 2008 campaign but I will neither vote for her nor donate to her campaign over this one issue.
  • Prerequisites (Score:4, Insightful)

    by codeButcher ( 223668 ) on Tuesday July 12, 2016 @12:16PM (#52497253)
    You do need to have a heart before it can be broken. (A conscience will also help.) Just sayin'
  • Hillary will say whatever, she can always spin it into what her sponsors want later. The same with Trump.

    Do not fall for the false dichotomy you are presented. The major parties want one to believe that one needs to vote for the lesser of two evils to block "the other guy" from winning. Either one's vote is too small and insignificant to matter and that is a waste of one's time or one's vote does matter and that is support you should reserve for the candidate you actually want to win.

    If voting does matter t

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