Consumer Reports Calls For Tesla To Disable Autopilot (consumerreports.org) 330
Reader parallel_prankster writes: Consumer Reports is calling on Tesla to disable its "Autopilot" feature that enables hands-free operation. Citing the recent fatal accident involving a car with Autopilot engaged, Consumer Reports labels the feature as "Too Much Autonomy Too Soon." In an extensive article posted at the top of its website Thursday morning, Consumer Reports said Tesla should "disable hands-free operation until its system can be made safer." "By marketing their feature as 'Autopilot,' Tesla gives consumers a false sense of security," said Laura MacCleery, vice president of consumer policy and mobilization for Consumer Reports, in the article. "In the long run, advanced active safety technologies in vehicles could make our roads safer. But today, we're deeply concerned that consumers are being sold a pile of promises about unproven technology. 'Autopilot' can't actually drive the car, yet it allows consumers to have their hands off the steering wheel for minutes at a time. Tesla should disable automatic steering in its cars until it updates the program to verify that the driver's hands are on the wheel."
Tesla says it will continue development of Autopilot, insisting that drivers supported by Autopilot "remain safer than those operating without assistance."
Tesla says it will continue development of Autopilot, insisting that drivers supported by Autopilot "remain safer than those operating without assistance."
So just rename it then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So just rename it then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Names matter. Expectations matter. Pragmatically and legally.
I mean, "what a reasonable person would expect" is a common standard, for things like "was this shooting in self defense".
Re:So just rename it then? (Score:4, Interesting)
So do you expect "Automatic Pilot" on Airplanes to mean land/take off, deal with adverse weather, etc ?
Why do drivers of cars take automatic pilot to mean complete robotic control, "I can not pay attention"?
A car still requires a humans to intervention. No where have I seen automatic pilot to be advanced to complete automatic control/driving.
Only lawyers and the those in the general populace that are trying to elevate auto pilot as responsible, seem to not have the clue. And for lawyers
they have the clue, but they ignore it and exploit the notion that auto pilot means you as the human can rely 100% on the computer.
Lets rename the mode. Even though for 50 years Auto pilot meant do the easy, mundane things. Not complete autonomous control.
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Autopilots CAN land, take off and deal with adverse weather...up to a point.
But yeah, anyone idiotic enough to think that something called "autopilot" will deal with every situation is pretty stupid. Though we are talking about humans here, and overall they do tend to be kind of stupid.
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IIRC, most current-generation fly-by-wire craft can do so, but I think they all still require a human to taxi them to the runway.
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Nope. They can land, but cannot take off. I know it seems counterintuitive, since landing is more difficult than taking off. But they want a pilot to have his or her hands on the controls so they can react quickly if an engine fails or some other unforseen event happens, requiring a split second decision between continuing the take-off and aborting. An engine failure during the approach is less critical due to the lower power setting.
Also, there is less of a need for automated take-offs as humans are capabl
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Do you expect an "Automatic Transmission" to operate your transmission for you? Do you expect "Automatic Sprinklers" to water your yard for you? Automatic means what it means and comes with certain connotations. If you want to use the aircraft argument, will you agree then that Tesla should require a several hundred hour certification course before you're allowed to take ownership of your vehicle like is done with commercial aircraft to explain all the nuances of the systems and ensure the pilots know ho
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If you want to use the aircraft argument, will you agree then that Tesla should require a several hundred hour certification course before you're allowed to take ownership of your vehicle like is done with commercial aircraft to explain all the nuances of the systems and ensure the pilots know how everything works?
You're comparing the sale of an item to a government licensing program. Anyone can buy a plane, whether they can drive it or not; cars are (and should be) the same. Now, if you wanted to make the same comparison between getting a drivers license and getting a pilots license, that would be reasonable. And yes, I'm sure most of us here do think it should be much more difficult to get a drivers license; perhaps at least as difficult as getting one's pilots license, something which is required whether or not th
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Re:So just rename it then? (Score:5, Insightful)
So do you expect "Automatic Pilot" on Airplanes to mean land/take off, deal with adverse weather, etc ?
I have no expectations at all regarding the meaning of "Automatic Pilot" on airplanes, because I don't operate airplanes. Why would you expect the average person to know what an aircraft autopilot does or does not do?
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I must confess, I do not understand what these questions have to do with the post to which you replied, but I will do my best to satisfy your curiosity.
Have you ever been in an airplane with out a pilot?
Yes, most recently on a tour of Air Force One at the Reagan library; however, I have never flown in an airplane without a pilot.
Why would you expect to get into a car without a driver?
Maybe to look for something that had been dropped between the seat and the console? I would not expect to travel in a car without a driver, and I believe that will be true for many years to come.
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Re: So just rename it then? (Score:5, Insightful)
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While some may misunderstand, a pilot is expected to remain at the controls when the autopilot is engaged.
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Re:So just rename it then? (Score:4, Informative)
If you don't have your hands on the wheel, it will pop up a notice telling you to put your hands on the wheel. If you still don't, it will beep an alert at you. If you still don't, it will gradually slow the car to a stop (it assumes that you are disabled at that point).
Re:So just rename it then? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't have your hands on the wheel, it will pop up a notice telling you to put your hands on the wheel. If you still don't, it will beep an alert at you. If you still don't, it will gradually slow the car to a stop (it assumes that you are disabled at that point).
And yet all the reviewers and so forth talk about their handsfree driving experience with it.
And Musk has himself said the car will drive from San Fransico to Seattle; almost without touching the controls at all.
You can't have that out there and then expect a reasonable person to think he REALLY has to have his hands on the wheel the whole time, just because the car beeps at him.
Additionally, its unreasonable to put a human being in a situation where they are expected to sit there doing nothing except being perpetually ready to act in case of an exceptional circumstances. Human beings aren't wired for that.
If we're driving and actively engaged, we can keep our attention on the task for long periods of time without much trouble. But we're supposed to just sit there "at the ready" that's a failure waiting to happen, because people don't work like that.
It would be like being told to sit in front of the oven and watch the thanksgiving turkey roast with our hand on the off switch the entire time, ready in case the bird catches fire or something.
We'll check it from time to time, we'll set a timer to help us remember to do that. If we smell smoke or something we'll react ... but no human being can sit there doing nothing, with the expectation of doing nothing, but ready to do something for hours on end. Our attention WILL drift. You can't slap a warning sticker on something and expect it to override human nature.
The feature is fundamentally incompatible with human beings. When its ready to be responsible enough for driving that it can deal with anything that comes up, and if something comes up that it can't do it can pull over and then alert a passenger to take over as driver... then it's ready for people. Until then its just an accident waiting to happen.
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Very true. The manufacturers of security X-ray machines actually include false positive images in the software to keep the person looking at the screen alert.
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*this*
I've driven a tesla with autopilot for a week, and thought it was an undercooked dangerous feature. The number of times it gave up auto steering because it got confused and the only warning you get is a subtle bong with sometimes sub second reaction times to stop an indecent made turn it off altogether.
I agree with consumer reports. It should be disabled.
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Have you ever flown a plane with auto pilot?
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Humans can do some activity for long periods of time, but the activity has to involve doing something.
When I drive my mechanical car, I have to constantly adjust the steering wheel to keep the car on the road (the road isn't completely straight after all) and gas to keep the speed as needed (the road goes up and down which makes the car slow down or speed up). This creates "something to do" for me, so I can stare at the road for hours.
I also know that if I stop looking at the road, I will quickly end up in
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What a crock of shit. According to this logic, commercial flight should be the most dangerous form of transportation.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL... [cnn.com]
What makes you think pilots are immune? Its just that at 10,000 feet over the atlantic the sky is pretty empty.
That said, they have all kinds of stuff to help them stay engaged. Paperwork and reports. Communications. A co-pilot, and flight crew to interact with. Plus its, you know, their job... so they are trained, and if they can't do it, they get fired.
Unlike a Tesla owner which only has to buy the car, doesn't have any training, and doesn't have anyone watching him drive
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Taking your hands off the wheel in a normal car doesn't have to mean a crash is imminent... I'm a USPS Rural Carrier who drives a left hand drive car form the right. Among other things this means I drive exclusively with my left hand and certain controls, like turn signals, require me to take my hand off the wheel to hit the control. So on a regular basis during my almost 100 mile daily drive I have no hands on the wheel and I don't hit anything.
Of course I'm not saying this is safe driving. Heck I also can
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No, it also needs to be deactivated immediately if the driver takes their hands off the steering wheel. No hands-free operation. Force the driver to do what they are supposed to be doing anyway -- driving and being in control.
I have let my attention drift with my hands on the whee even with the threat of pain and possible death. solution like intermittant buzzing or twitching the wheel will only exhaust the driver with false alerts leading to even more unsafe driving. Because autopilot is as safe as human driver, the only solution is to encourage it's use and get more data to make autopilot even safer. see this R&T article. http://www.roadandtrack.com/ca... [roadandtrack.com]
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Don't say it is peanut free if it isn't.
People can die from that. I know someone that can't have peanuts I don't know how bad but some like that can hit jackpot if that does happen.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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How about the lawsuits when they remove a feature many people, the vast majority of whom have enough common sense to use it correctly, paid for?
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A class action lawsuit for a bait and switch is still going to be cheaper to settle than a lawsuit involving negligence, injuries and fatalities.
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Tell that to Volkswagen
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Changing the name would be even cheaper.
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Re:Elon Musk may meet his Waterloo here (Score:5, Informative)
The freaking manual says to not do what most of these accidents have done.
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I doubt they'll turn it off. Maybe require a legally binding document that you know how & when to use Autopilot.
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Eventually, there is going to be a MASSIVE legal battle that everyone building autonomous vehicles will have to face. Are the manufacturers at fault for collisions that their autonomous vehicles cause or fail to avoid? Because even if their autonomous drive mode prevents 2/3 of would-be collisions in those vehicles, the other 1/3 of those collisions will technically be the result of software shortcomings and thus be the fault of the manufacturer.
With >30,000 traffic deaths per year in the
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Re: Elon Musk may meet his Waterloo here (Score:4, Insightful)
LOL, the guy running the most innovative car company in the world today AND the most innovative rocket company today is an idiot.
So says the anonymous coward.
How many accidents has it avoided? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's data Tesla should have, since they get driving statistics from their cars. They should be able to easily calculate the accident rate for their cars under similar driving conditions with and without Autopilot on.
see: http://www.roadandtrack.com/ca... [roadandtrack.com]
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Apples and oranges. Airbags and seat belts are designed to be of use during an already underway accident. Autopilot caused the accident.
Re:How many accidents has it avoided? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Let's say you're driving drunk one day. You hit a car and kill all 4 occupants. You will be thrown in jail and sued in civil court. And you will lose. No court has ever said, "Well, he was such a good driver before. He even actively prevented some collisions with a wise use of horn and blinkers!" Nope. You're still at fault for the collision you cause.
And this is going to be the MASSIVE legal battle that anyone building autonomous vehicles will
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I certainly think we need more time to evaluate, but I'd be willing to bet that autopilot has avoided accidents that dumb asses would have otherwise caused.
I on the other hand am quite dubious. Even if we had sufficient data we don't really know the comparable accident rates for the same driving sans autopilot. Plus there's the question of what happens to driver behaviour after 5 years of driving with an autopilot, nor how the software and its inputs sensors react as the cars get older and start to break down.
The time to evaluate was before releasing it to the general public. This tech is far too new to be considered safe at this point.
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Maybe they need a way to keep the driver involved: steering wheel pressure sensors, or eye sensors.
That's what Mercedes did, their vehicles disengage the driving assist features if you take your hands off of the wheel for longer than ten seconds.
Here's someone defeating the disengage function with a soda can [youtube.com].
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That's in large part because early cruise control was called "auto-pilot".
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Maybe they need a way to keep the driver involved: steering wheel pressure sensors, or eye sensors.
The system already does this, and will throw visible and audible warnings, before eventually slowing to a stop if the driver does not take action to confirm they are still maintaining control.
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As designed, Tesla's Autopilot is not what many people think an autopilot is; it's a driver-assist feature and not an autonomous driving system.
But Tesla's Autopilot is what an autopilot actually is. It's a driver aid, that exists to reduce a driver's workload while behind the wheel, not eliminate it entirely. Just because a pilot turns the autopilot on does not mean they are magically no longer the pilot and can zone out.
As such it makes people less safe on the road for themselves and others when they engage it;
People make themselves less safe on the road by not understand how their vehicle operates.
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In fact, Tesla's manual TELLS drivers not to use it in certain situations, exactly like the ones where some of these accidents happened.
But, yes, it's very poorly named.
That doesn't put the whole burden on Tesla though. Not understanding, but using anyway, a hands free driving system, in traffic, is going to kill people, regardless of what it's called.
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You sure about that?
You might want to go look up a company called Takata. Which has tens of millions of airbags recalled.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05... [nytimes.com]
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Airbags and seat belts cannot cause accident putting others at risk, autopolit can, that's a big difference.
Not sure about seatbelts, but I'd put money on airbags [roadandtrack.com].
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Its not Hands Free though... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Everything I've read about the auto pilot feature states that you need to have your hands on the wheel at all times.
Everything but the name itself. Autopilot implies automatic piloting, i.e., little to no human intervention.
Re:Its not Hands Free though... (Score:5, Insightful)
Autopilot in an airplane maintains direction and speed. Tesla autopilot does the same.
Autopilot in airplane doesn't swerve to avoid crashes. But Tesla does swerve/brake in some situations.
Autopilot in airplane requires the real pilot to pay attention and be ready to take over at any time. Tesla pops up a notice every time you turn it on which says "KEEP YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL AND BE READY TO TAKE OVER AT ANY TIME".
The name is perfect.
Unfortunately, we still have some of the same stupid people who can't read and don't follow directions.
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Except when you hear Musk talk, it hardly sounds like the Autopilot will change name between now and becoming self-driving. He talks as if this is their automatic driver but since it's still in beta wait just a little bit longer to take your hands off the wheel. When in fact it's much closer to the adaptive cruise control/lane keeping etc. that other cars have had than to Google's car project. Sure the legal disclaimers are all there but very often they disclaim anything and everything just to be on the saf
Re:Its not Hands Free though... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Seriously? With a username like "speedplane" you don't know anything about pre-Tesla autopilots, their capabilities, and their limitations? Autopilot, in a Tesla or a Boeing or anything else, means a set of functionality to reduce your workload by holding attitude and speed, and maybe to make course corrections. It does not mean 100% full-time hands-off operation while it engages you in witty banter with the voice of Anthony Daniels.
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Everything I've read about the auto pilot feature states that you need to have your hands on the wheel at all times.
This. Even with auto pilot on a commercial jet liner, someone has to be in the cockpit at all times, monitoring and ready to take control. Why? In case shit happens. Which is always does, at the most unexpected times. If you want to get from A to B without having to interact with the vehicle in any capacity, ride a bus or call an Uber. Please don't tell me you're so stupid as to honestly claim you didn't know the car really wouldn't drive itself with 0% action on your part. If you are this stupid.. please r
umm nope (Score:2)
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tesla never called it safe or secure it clearly says keep hands on wheel.
This is from their website:
Tesla Autopilot relieves drivers of the most tedious and potentially dangerous aspects of road travel. We're building Autopilot to give you more confidence behind the wheel, increase your safety on the road, and make highway driving more enjoyable.
They don't say you can take your hands of the wheel, but they certainly give that impression.
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Auto pilot is not... (Score:2, Informative)
....Autonomous pilot.
It's designed to reduce the number of inputs a driver/pilot have to make... it is not designed to be used in zero visibility and still requires the driver/pilot to be aware of what is going on and be ready to take control.
Re:Auto pilot is not... (Score:5, Insightful)
People on slashdot love to rip on companies who advertise Unlimited but still have caps. "Unlimited should mean Unlimited!" But give Tesla a pass when they bill something that's not Autopilot as Autopilot.
Oh, but it is autopilot. Name a vehicular autopilot system that is designed to allow the operator to engage and then ignore it completely for the duration of the trip, without risk of disaster. Commercial aviation relies heavily on autopilot, but they still employ 2 pilots per flight. Why? Because if there's only one pilot, and he's incapacitated, autopilot simply does not have the same capabilities to get the aircraft home safely. Don't you think they would have axed the expensive pilot positions years ago if the technology existed to allow it? So yes, it is autopilot, but no it's not meant to replace a human.
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Autopilots are a specific set of technologies that have existed for many decades, have a known and long-established use case, and whose limitations are likewise well known, documented, and understood (by non-morons). There's no case for the use of the term "autopilot" to be false advertising or making promises that the technology is incapable of meeting. This is not the case when a promise of "unlimited" whatever is made.
An example of Tesla falsely advertising or reneging on its claims would be if they te
fucking great (Score:5, Insightful)
im going to lose the best feature of my model S because some asshole decided to watch a movie instead of the road while in his car.
Re:fucking great (Score:5, Insightful)
A man died because Tesla marketed the system as more than what the specs said it could do.
That is a lie. Tesla marketed it as handling the activity of driving for an alert driver who may well have to step in and start driving again
He's dead because of the Elon Musk hype train because the way Musk talked about the feature, he felt comfortable doing this.
His feelings may or may not be legally actionable. That he didn't follow directions, however, is extremely relevant. Tesla won't even turn on the feature without giving the driver a lecture, so he has no excuse for not understanding his responsibilities as a driver.
It's a net safety issue (Score:2)
I'm entirely willing to believe that Teslas on autopilot get into accidents that their human drivers would have avoided. I'm also very confident that Teslas on autopilot avoid some accidents that their human drivers would have caused/been involved in.
Question is, which number is higher? If Teslas on autopilot are involved in fewer accidents per mile traveled (adjusted, as much as possible, for type of driving) than human drivers, then autopilot should remain. If the Tesla accident rate is higher, then it
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Teslas on autopilot are involved in fewer accidents per mile traveled (adjusted, as much as possible, for type of driving) than human drivers
Not a slam on Tesla here, I totally think they are in the right on this so far every autopilot incident I am aware of the operator was misusing the technology by not paying attention and being prepared to take over as Tesla makes it VERY CLEAR every time you turn the thing on that you are supposed to be.
That said the statistic is a bit self serving because most users would be driving manually in the most challenging conditions because autopilot can't or won't. I don't know to many human drivers who get int
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It will probably be decided based on whether the human or autopilot accidents cost insurance companies more or less. They couldn't give a damn about anything like dead meatbags until they have to pay for it.
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Agreed, since insurance company costs are very closely correlated to accidents and fatalities.
The IIHS doesn't do all that crash-test rating and advocacy work just to be nice.
Too cautious (Score:4, Interesting)
If I recall correctly, Consumer Reports was the same organization that demerited cars for having electric power windows because they said something to the effect that you'd be trapped in the event your car sank in a body of water.
It is sad that someone died while using Tesla's "autopilot" feature. But 1) evidence suggests the driver contributed to his own demise by ignoring or circumventing the warnings and safety features of the product 2) the product is only improved by the knowledge gained from this incident making future trips safer for everyone. 3) it is already evident that the rate of fatalities using this mode is already a 35% improvement over non-autopilot users. (1 fatality in 130 million miles driven vs. 1 in 96 million)
Re:Too cautious (Score:5, Insightful)
it is already evident that the rate of fatalities using this mode is already a 35% improvement over non-autopilot users. (1 fatality in 130 million miles driven vs. 1 in 96 million)
Is this an apples-to-apples comparison? I would imagine that autopilot is much more heavily used on highways than on surface streets. So, if the fatality rate on highways per mile is lower than for surface streets, it wouldn't be an entirely fair comparison.
I genuinely don't know the answer to this, couldn't find any data close at hand...
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If I recall correctly, Consumer Reports was the same organization that demerited cars for having electric power windows because they said something to the effect that you'd be trapped in the event your car sank in a body of water.
Actually that does happen on occasion. It's usually not blamed on the electric windows unless someone else managed to survive and can say what happened, but it factors into it. Do you carry a glass-break device (hammer or whatever) with easy reach in the passenger compartment? If not, you're at risk with automatic locks on a way that someone with a manual override -- that is... a crank -- isn't.
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1 fatality in 130 million miles driven vs. 1 in 96 million
That is 1 fatality in 130 million miles of Tesla autopilot driving, compared to 1 in 96 million miles for "normal" cars driving in all sorts of weather, road conditions, and traffic conditions. Hardly a fair comparison. And even then, you're ignoring the problems inherent in a relatively small sample size.
What happened to personal resonsibility? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I agree it's mostly the driver's fault, but that doesn't relieve Tesla of liability. If I have a pool in my backyard surrounded by a 10' locked fence, and a kid climbs the fence and drowns in my pool, I can still be sued even though it was the kid's fault. If I have a pit bull in my home, and a burglar breaks in and gets bitten by the dog, I can still be sued even though it was the burglar's fault. Case law is full of suits like this that have been won by the plaintiff.
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No argument from me on that sentiment!
Can't disable it (Score:3)
Then they would be sued for every fatality where it was not available. Also, isn't this like suing GM if your cruise control ran you into a semi, or did that happen when cruise be came available?
Darwin was right. (Score:3)
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This just in idiots doing idiotic things with technology. I say no to disabling it. Stop protecting stupid people from themselves.
I might agree with this if these "idiots" only endangered themselves. But they can endanger passengers and other cars on the road as well.
This is like someone arguing in favor of letting people drive drunk or while texting or whatever... "Let the idiots kill themselves!" Except they can kill other people in the process when a multiton vehicle slams into another because of that "idiot." There's the problem here.
Elons Official Response (Score:2)
Tesla is calling on car manufacturers to disable its "Self-pilot" feature that enables self-driving operation. Citing the recent 32,675 [wikipedia.org] fatal accidents involving a car with Self-pilot engaged, Tesla labels the feature as "Too Much Self Reliance Too Soon." Tesla said car manufacturers should "disable self-driving operation until the system can be made safer." "By marketing their vehicles as 'Self-pilot,' car manufacturers gives consumers a false sense of self-determination."
Will this interfere .... (Score:2)
Bring back horses (Score:2)
one death and consumer reports freaks (Score:2)
one death in a tesla and consumer reports freaks...how many deaths are there daily from car accidents and consumer reports are not saying a thing. Makes me wonder who is paying them off!
Cruise control by any other name ... (Score:3)
I really don't see a problem with the way that Tesla has implemented this or the name they choose to call it by. Clearly you are going to have some people who push it to the extreme and those people will suffer (or possibly die) because of it. I don't really see how this is all that different from cruise control in general. Cruise control was originally designed to alleviate the physical stress of maintaining a constant speed over long distances (for similar reasons that it exists on planes). Adding the ability for the car to maintain itself in a lane is a further iteration of that, as is the car's limited ability to respond to obstacles in its way. Guess what, if you set cruise control on your car and don't pay attention to changes in traffic ahead of you, you may slam into a car going slower than you, yet none of our cars warn us when we engage cruise control that we should keep checking for cars in front of us (I'm sure it's in the manual in the glove box though). Should Tesla change the name of the feature? I suppose they could, I doubt it would modify anyone's behavior. It doesn't take you that long to realize what the car appears to be able to do before you'll let it steer, accelerate, and brake, regardless of what's it called or what warning messages are read to you.
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Following the same logic, Consumer Reports should call on all automakers to disable cruise control in automobiles. Cruise control (first generation) will merrily plow into anything in front of the car.
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I wonder how many people are actually using autopilot on their newer Model S and Model X cars right now. If it's only a few thousand cars and they're already had several accidents, it's not going to look good for Tesla.