Bar In UK Uses Faraday Cage To Block Mobile Phone Signals (telegraph.co.uk) 537
Reader Bruce66423 writes: A cocktail bar owner has installed a Faraday cage in his walls to prevent mobile phone signals entering the building. Steve Tyler of the Gin Tub, in Hove, East Sussex, is hoping customers will be encouraged to talk to each other rather than looking at their screens. He has installed metal mesh in the walls and ceiling of the bar which absorbs and redistributes the electromagnetic signals from phones and wireless devices to prevent them entering the interior of the building. The effect was discovered in 1836 by scientist Michael Faraday and is often used in power plants or other highly charged environments to prevent shocks or interference with other electronic equipment. Some wallets are now cloaked in a similar flexible mesh to prevent data and credit card theft. Mr Tyler said he wanted to force "people to interact in the real world" and remember how to socialise. "I just wanted people to enjoy a night out in my bar, without being interrupted by their phones," he said. "So rather than asking them not to use their phones, I stopped the phones working. I want you to enjoy the experience of going out."
Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Insightful)
Good thing you have a choice whether to give them business, or not.
But something tells me the typical Slashdotter will still have a knee-jerk complaint about it.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Funny)
What if there's a terrorist attack in there? How will they call the police from the toilets?
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
How the *fuck* did we function during the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s without mobile phones and *active* terrorist cells on the UK mainland carrying out IRA attacks?
Somehow, someone still managed to call the police without a mobile phone...
"But what if there is a terrorist attack!?!" has rapidly become the new "wont somebody think of the children?!?" in ridiculous arguments either for or against something.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Informative)
They still exist, pretty much every business still has a landline, and now any passer by in the street is almost guaranteed to have a phone. I still see no reason to make this about a terrorist attack or anything else - its private property, the only right that exists here is the right for that owner to do this.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Informative)
It's only illegal in the U.S. to use electronic means to jam cell or radio signals.
Physical blocks, such as Faraday cages, are perfectly legal otherwise nearly every business in the country would be in violation, especially those in older buildings which have an iron framework.
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Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Interesting)
Back in the day you could expect at least 2 or 3 phone stalls in a public establishment such as a bar... often more, depending on its size and popularity.
If anyone RTFA, the bar actually DOES have landline phones at each table to call in another round of drinks or talk to folks at other tables. Doesn't mention if you can place calls to outside the bar...
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How the *fuck* did we function during the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s without mobile phones and *active* terrorist cells on the UK mainland carrying out IRA attacks?
We didn't. We didn't function during the troubles. We didn't function during the Blitz. We didn't function during the Black Death.
Don't you get it? Hipsters are the first truly functioning members of human society.
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Back then there would have been 2 pay phones in the lobby and a landline behind the bar. Still it must be nice to have that option to render your business a mobile phone free zone. Actively blocking or jamming cell signals in the US is an violation of FCC regulations but to use a faraday cage or to take advantage of natural interference is still very legal and in my opinion the right of the owner/operator of any private establishment. I probably wouldn't frequent such a place, being on-call a lot it would m
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You mean, it's almost as though the person you're replying to must have been joking? Huh, that's a weird thought.
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Won't someone think of how they are to contact the babysitters watching the children?
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Insightful)
How the *fuck* did we function during the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s without mobile phones
We used to plan.
There would be an agreed meeting point if we got separated (or common sense - go back to the place where we last saw each other)
People would arrive on time. If people hadn't turned up, five minute after the agreed time we'd be off and the latecomers were on their own.
Nowadays, people text five minutes before the agreed time to say they're going to be an hour late[1]. People also assume the most optimistic times for a journey instead of a realistic time.
Late entry into theatres and concerts has, IME, become much more common. 20 years ago there might one one or two couples who were let in in the first break - and you felt sorry for them because obviously there'd been an accident or something else completely unexpected that had delayed them excessively. Now it's dozens of people - often so many that it's not actually possible to seat them all in the few minutes before the second piece starts.
[1] This is the one that really pisses me off. It's taken me an hour to get to our agreed meeting point. I've arrived a good ten minutes early out of courtesy, and then I'm kept waiting around for another hour.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Insightful)
Inattentive driving due to mobile use has claimed millions of lives.
Citation needed.
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There are well over a million [who.int] auto fatalities annually across this planet. The number of mobile phone related deaths is somewhere [nsc.org] between 1%-10% of these.
Probably tens of millions, but I don't have the proof of that so I am going with millions.
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Millions, not so much. Thousands....
Each day in the United States, over 8 people are killed and 1,161 injured in crashes that are reported to involve a distracted driver.
Distracted driving activities include things like using a cell phone, texting, and eating. Using in-vehicle technologies (such as navigation systems) can also be sources of distraction. While any of these distractions can endanger the driver and others, texting while driving is especially dangerous because it combines all three types of di
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Bullshit. The extra 1 min it takes to get the barman to call a EMT is *not* going to make that much difference. In fact I would assert that it makes none at all. The distance of the pub from the closest hospital will be the dominating factor. In the 60s as in the 2016s.
I guess you missed the part where I'm *agreeing with you*.
After all, there's a land line, and in most emergencies, you could also quickly run outside to call.
Try at least reading to the end of the post, you twittering paddy-cake.
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I thought I'd adopt Captain Haddock-like insults [tintinologist.org], just for today. "Twittering paddy-cake" just seemed an appropriately British insult, given the article. Feel free to use as you wish.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
In the old days you you stepped out of the bar to make a call - the landline phones were typically in the corridor leading to the washrooms, because the bar was too noisy for voice calls, or you might have had to look for a public phone box in the street. And guess what! Stepping outside the bar (and the Faraday cage) would still work!
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Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Funny)
How will they call the police from the toilets?
This is the UK. Stand on the toilet, flush the toilet and escape down the drain. Wizards do it all the time.
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The Pornographer Tells Me to Go to Church (Score:2)
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? It's not technically a jammer, it's how the building is constructed, it's not broadcasting a jamming field...
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It can't be illegal. My local hospital actively blocks cell phone signals. They say it has something to do with medical device safety but I suspect they do it just so they can charge exorbinant prices for operator-assisted land-line calls.
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Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Informative)
...and a Faraday cage is passive jamming.
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The house I live in (built in the 1930s) has a metal mesh backing behind the plaster. The metal backing is acting as a Faraday cage (which causes all sorts of wireless signal issues). I have also heard thick plaster can cause signal issues, but I can't confirm it.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Informative)
A Faraday cage is PASSIVE obstruction and perfectly legal. Active jamming would be creating EM interference on the same frequency...
Lots of places have EM shielding to block radio waves of all sorts -- especially hospitals, research facilities, factories, and government facilities.
They even sell wallpaper with the mesh built in so it's easier to set up.
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Wrong. Jamming EM frequencies or using EM frequencies to cause interference is illegal. It's damned well legal to put any ol' wire mesh in your building if you please. People put wire mesh in their attics to keep critters out.
I hate to break it to you, but even though your cell phone can dial 911, your cell phone is not an official emergency service either. You can grab a payphone or use the office's phone to dial 911 if the establishment even has a phone -- which, by the way, isn't a requirement ei
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't be? As long as it's passive blocking (i.e. Faraday cage), and not active blocking (like a signal blocking device that transmits interference/etc) then I can't see how it would be illegal in the USA either.
There's nothing illegal about parking garages and other buildings that block cell signals... they're everywhere.
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Here in Canada, it's totally illegal. I love it as a business niche, but it's totally illegal for one very simple big overriding law that we have across Canada, by "Industry Canada" which regulates radio signals.
You're never allowed to do anything that would disrupt the communications of first-responders. So if there's a fire, and fire-fighters come in to save people, and their radios don't work back to the truck, then that's the problem.
Parking garages are under different fire codes than restaurants, obvi
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A few reasons, made all the more obvious during U.S. elections:
1. far fewer people. with a tenth of the population, there are fewer people to regulate and far fewer to enforce
2. far more land. with double, triple, and in some areas ten times the land, the population density is far lower. with more space fewer concerns collide with other people's concerns.
3. we've prioritized communications long ago -- our providers have been required to cover coast-to-coast, even where there is one human in a thousand sq
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Informative)
The endangering argument would fall flat on its face here in the UK, thankfully.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't be illegal under FCC in the US, but it's still endangering people by blocking calls to emergency services. It shouldn't necessarily be legal.
I'm pretty sure that the bar has a landline telephone. Pick it up; punch 999 (UK), 112 (EU), or 911 (US). It's not that hard. If it was my bar, I'd install a couple of pay phones back by the WC for nostalgia's sake and a little extra profit. They also get emergency numbers for free. Otherwise, join the smokers out side for your Twitter fix. I'd be happy to stop bye if I was in the neighborhood.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Funny)
Pick it up; punch 999 (UK)
I think you meant 0118 999 881 999 119 7253. Here's a handy song to help you remember!
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I think you meant 0118 999 881 999 119 7253. Here's a handy song to help you remember!
You forgot the handy song [youtube.com]
You're welcome :)
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112 is an official emergency number in the UK, too. We still like to help our fellow Europeans, despite recent political events. And apparently 911 works too, though it's not official.
Emergency phone (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect this guy has a POTS or VOIP telephone somewhere in the bar. The prudent thing to do in a place of public accommodation where cellular telephone service is not available is to post a notice that a telephone is available for emergencies and state where it is. It's that simple. He probably already has a posted map to the fire exits in the main dining room/bar already, if fire safety regulations there are anything like what they are here.
I think if the guy were to post "EMERGENCY TELEPHONE BEHIND BAR - DIAL 911" (substitute whatever the dispatcher number is in the UK is) on the door underneath his business hours, he'd be doing his due.
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Just because there's an alternative doesn't make it non-interfering.
If there's no signal, fine. But if you're actually doing work to block the signal, then it's on you.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Interesting)
Pretty much everything in 1965 was illegal.
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but it's still endangering people by blocking calls to emergency services. It shouldn't necessarily be legal.
Let me get this straight: Your position is that every person who builds a space for public use must make sure that wireless calls to emergency services work?
So, every underground parking garage should be forced to install cell transmitters?
I live and breath technology, but there is no harm in going off grid.
Walk outside, and you'll have signal. If you're expecting a call, let your phone sync outside for a minute out of every 30 or so.
For emergency calls, place a landline in the pub.
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Being unavailable isn't the same as actively interfering (it may be passive interference as far as the signal is concerned, but it took an active effort).
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seatbelts are required, cell phone coverage is not
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Why would you even go to a place intended for socializing if all you're going to do is stare at your phone? You're not welcome with that shit.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Did you know it's possible to have a phone with you and still not use it? Amazing!
There are plenty of situations where payphones would be either inaccessible or unsafe in an emergency.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Insightful)
This is passive. The bar owner is not flooding the airwaves with noise without a license. The bar owner is not obligated to use building materials that are transparent to radio waves.
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I'm fairly certain that it is legal in the US. The businesses that were getting in legal trouble in the US were using radio signals to jam signals. This sort of interference is illegal, and I suspect that it is illegal internationally (since many of the laws regarding the RF spectrum are a product of ITU regulations).
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It wouldn't be legal in the US.
Look, moron, this is Slashdot, you don't have to be a lawyer, but kindly have a brain - that is not linked to your cell phone 24/7 - It's not an ACTIVE jammer, it's foil in the walls. There are no laws against that. Now go back to your Pokeman Go bullshit.
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:5, Funny)
My house is illegal!
It has chicken wire in the walls to hold on to the stucco and it is really good at blocking some wavelengths!
OH NOES!
Re:Good thing you have a choice (Score:4, Informative)
Even if a building were an FCC regulated device (for all practical purposes, buildings are not), FCC regulations require that devices emit essentially only in permitted or unlicensed frequencies at permitted power levels, accept harmful interference, and not produce harmful interference. They don't require that devices or structures facilitate radio communications.
A proper faraday cage isn't emitting much of anything, accepts harmful interference, and does not produce harmful interference. It's a radio-opaque object. Unless you can point to a regulation against radio-opaque objects (hint: there isn't one [coloradodaily.com]), it's perfectly legal in the US.
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bullshit, you could step into the foyer, go into the bathroom or go outside.
geez you kids and your expectation of 24x7 signal. the world functioned fine without it
aka (Score:2)
It's just retro construction, not anti cell phone (Score:2)
So really he's just made an old fashioned metal plaster lathing style building. No need to invite any kind of anti-cell phone angst.
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So really he's just made an old fashioned metal plaster lathing style building. No need to invite any kind of anti-cell phone angst.
The construction may be retro, but the purpose obviously isn't, hence the invite by the bar owner himself...
Cue the stupid complaints... (Score:2)
Here come the unthinking complaints from isolated individuals who think "being connected" means staring at the electronic device in their hands - and literally being oblivious to the real world around them.
Home Made (Score:2)
You can do the same thing if you insulate your house with foil-faced insulation, use aluminized tape in the joints, and e-Glass on your windows. Don't
forget the ceiling and floor. The floor should be a screen because moisture in the floor will rot it. Joints are very critical everywhere. Small gaps in
the window mechanism, sliders and frames are an issue also. Conductive paint is a help. I have a house similar to those specs --inadvertently-- and
my AT&T cell tower is 5 bars outside on the porch, an
Cost to Uninstall (Score:2)
Want this at my movie theater (Score:2, Insightful)
Will hopefully reduce/stop the number of mobile screens turning on & off in front of me.
Phones In The Basket (Score:5, Interesting)
I went to Buffalo, NY to visit family recently and a restaurant we went to tried encouraging people to put away their phones and talk. Instead of installing a Faraday cage, though, they put a basket (of the type they serve bread in) on the table. Everyone's phones went in and stayed there. If we kept our phones there during the entire meal, we got 10% off our check. (We kept our phones there and had fun taking "mental photos" of the kids instead of cell phone photos.)
I much prefer this system. It gives you an incentive to keep from looking at your phone without actively blocking your phone from being used. In case of an emergency, your phone is right there for you to use, but most times it'll just stay in the basket until after dinner is over.
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I knew a guy who would take an old Nokia to those things, and walk out with an upgrade. If course it's an old trick, he used to do it with cars when they made people leave their keys at the door.
Check out the Netflix documentary "The Irish Pub" (Score:5, Interesting)
It's an documentary detailing several very old Irish pubs, and while they don't mention a Faraday Cage, they bring up how the classic "Pub" concept is starting to fade because so many people are wrapped up in the Internet and electronics that they simply don't know how to just sit and converse.
The digital addiction and EMP (Score:2)
All this work and cost he went to and the digital addiction will likely win over. The bar will get a reputation for having horrible signal and people will find other bars that don't. Unless he has really awesome drinks and everything else to overcome the need for data. Even then, you'll see many people convening outside to get their information fix or make calls to the S/O. Worse, how will people be able to fake receiving phone calls to get out of creepy bar conversations?
Makes me wonder if his bar is suffi
Active Jamming vs Passive Filtering (Score:2)
I accomplished the same thing... (Score:2)
Old school thinking (Score:2)
What do they expect people to do? talk to each other offline?! -the people who started this are sick, demented fossils clinging to the dying ways of old farts.
I bet some millennials have already got into panic attacks and shock when they got no signal and missed their tinder hook-up or could no longer understand where they were because GPS was not working any more.
I'm launching a FB campaign against this barbaric treatment. Something must be done.
Step outside with your phone? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm hardly ever on my phone, but I do need to be available for emergency calls, and that's why I have a phone in the first place. If I DO have to take a call, I tend to say "please excuse me, I have an important call" and then I go outside with my phone. I don't want those around me to hear me struggling to hear the caller and hushing their conversation, and I don't like to struggle to hear the caller in the first place. :people to interact with the real world." I think he is trying to discourage the man sitting alone in his bar from being on his cell phone playing games, the woman sitting alone at the table scrolling through facebook... He wants to take away the distractions that people use to isolate themselves and avoid intereacting with strangers, and probably hopes that people in his establishment will actually start to talk and interact together. I don't know if this will work, but good luck to him!
Cameras? Pictures? Facebook? Games? I think that these are what the owner of the establishment had in mind as he put the Faraday cage into his walls... His comment was that he wanted
I call bull$it (Score:2)
Have made a shielded room, and done plenty of EMC in others; it is super hard to keep cell signals out. The article looks like he has glass windows and is not underground. With an EMC room, you need conductive foam braid on the the door seals, and soon as you crack the door, you get cell coverage. Even the wiring has to have filters, as the radio waves can get in and out via wiring, plumbing etc. glass windows would need fine copper mesh. More likely he has a jammer installed, and and just told everyone it'
Pub Quiz (Score:5, Insightful)
At least they can have a decent pub quiz that isn't ruined by surreptitious Googling (though some git will probably download offline Wikipedia).
It will stop phone calls & texts but (Score:3)
It will stop phone calls & texts but sadly candy crush will work just fine.
Net effect, I can't find out why my mate / girl / droogs are late or even going to show up AND they can't call me to tell me, but I can still ignore everyone else playing games.
Oops.
THEN the pub owner... (Score:3)
Puts a Pokie Stop INSIDE the building and watches while the hapless Pokimon players drift in and realize there is a life outside their mom's basement.. The look on their faces is priceless.
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Re:Just hope there is no incident that happens (Score:5, Insightful)
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We have RF shielded rooms in our labs at work. People are allowed to go inside them despite being temporarily cut off from all Pokemon capturing possibilities.
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Even if there's a Dratini spawn nearby?
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I know! It'll be like the dark ages back in 1995 again. People died man. People died.
Re:Just hope there is no incident that happens (Score:5, Insightful)
Just hope there is no incident that happens where some really needs to make a call.
As long as people are aware of the situation then what's the problem??
I can drive 5 miles off the freeway around here and not have any cell service. Should I be scared to go there because I might really need to make a call?
Re:Just hope there is no incident that happens (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, you should avoid it completely.
You probably don't remember but back in the 80s when you had no cellphone, you probably died 3 or 4 times per year because you couldn't call the emergency services.
Re:Just hope there is no incident that happens (Score:4, Interesting)
You jest, but the people that did die in 80s because help couldn't get there soon enough aren't around to tell you their story.
Of course they did, but the world is large and all sorts of things happen. The question, of course, is how much. At no point in the 80s did I know someone who died who in hindsight would have not died had cellphone coverage existed. Any vaguely built up area in the 80s had landlines, so for areas where emergency services could respond quickly, phones were not in especially short supply in an emergency.
There are plenty of places now without cellphone coverage and yet, surprisingly many in cities (anywhere underground), and yet it still isn't a problem that people are dying in droves. The other aspect is the nature of deaths. Survivorship bias is a thing, but we can work things out.
Deaths are rare, about 9 per 1000 people per year. Given a reasonably occupancy numbers (100 people?) and occupancy time (it's a bar, say 5 hours per day for those 100), and say it has those numbers for the full 365 days per year. That gives an average 20 person years per year occupancy. Amortized over the whole population, that's an expected 1 death every 5 years with some pretty generous numbers.
Except of course, the majority of deaths are not unexpected. Most deaths occur among the elderly and sick and are somewhat expected, and spike for the very young too. The bar setting pretty much excludes those demographics. You can also subtract off the majority of the accidental deaths too since for example traffic collisions are rare indoors (and besides, that would put a huge hole in the shielding, letting in phone signals anyway, bystanders notwithstanding).
The expected number of deaths is somewhere in the region of one in several decades at most. So you're down to (say) 1 death in 20-30 years for which a cellphone might be useful.
The other side is of course that cellphone coverage is not ubiquitous by any means and we're talking about a bar which will certainly have a physical land line wired in too.
For the cellphone to be the key factor, there has to be no other means of dialling 999 (unlikely given the bar will have a phone), the person has to be saveable, and the emergency services would have had to arrive in time even with the cell phone call.
Those are hard to estimate of course, but the probabilities are all less than unity.
In other words, the chance of someone croaking in the bar who would have been saved by a cellhphone is negligible.
TL;DR unexpected deaths are rare. The number of lives saves by cellphones must be less than the accident rate, so the effect is quite small.
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I'm sure the bar has a phone you can use in emergencies. Heck, the bar tender might already be on the phone by the time you ask them for emergency services.
And that phone may even be available for regular customer use if they need call home to talk to the sitter or something as a courtesy (not even a payphone).
If you're desperate to use your phone, you could always do the polite thing and step outside too..
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I'm sure the bar has a phone you can use in emergencies. Heck, the bar tender might already be on the phone by the time you ask them for emergency services.
Yeah but but but, what happens if a passing boat "accidentally" drops anchor on the cable?
Yah make sure there's a cell phone (Score:2)
as its possible the guy sharking the pool players might have his laser go off by accident blowing up the land line.
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bars have telephones in first and second world countries.
you are really such a lazy fat fuck you couldn't get to where there is signal in 2 seconds?
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That is a question for the courts
Did you even read TFA? Or is this just pure knee jerk. To quote:
Although electric jamming devices are illegal a Faraday cage is not.
"Unlike jammers, Faraday cages don’t proactively cause interference, although they do interfere with mobile reception,’ An Ofcom spokesman said.
Re:Liability risk (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Liability risk (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the UK, those lawsuits dont happen here because we have common fucking sense - you have no inherent human right to make or receive phone calls on private property, so there is no implicit consent needed. Faraday cage or not, missing someones death or your kid getting knocked down gives you no grounds to sue the property owner because you couldnt make or receive a phone call.
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The difference isn't whether we have fuckwits that stupidly misuse emergency response resources, it's that we don't ask those fuckwits to write and adjudicate on laws.
Re:Liability risk (Score:5, Insightful)
As soon as one of his customers has a serious emergency while at the bar, and ends up missing their grandmother's death or their kid being hit by a car, it will be lawsuit time. I think it's a novel idea, but even in a less litigious country than the US, you'd have to have a sign outside the bar announcing the Faraday cage for entering to be considered implicit consent to have your wireless signal blocked. (I would think. I'm not a lawyer though.)
As someone who remembers a world before cell phones, I really get tired of this legal argument.
No government issues citizens a mandatory cell phone. Cellular service is also not legally mandated by any Fire Marshall for the purposes of certifying building occupancy, nor is it a requirement to establish and run a bar business.
And until they do, how about we FUCKING DROP this bullshit notion that you can sue someone for not having cellular capability 24 hours a day everywhere.
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you're confused. getting a call your kid or grandparent just died isn't an actionable emergency, just sad news. if there's an emergency, call 911 not your drunken relatrive at the pub. what's the percentage of time in your life you received an emergency call? 3/1000000000?
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I have a high tech solution to this:
Use a 3d printer to create a sign that says "turn off your cell phones or your battery will suffer. You have been warned."
Re:Article Coming Soon: (Score:5, Insightful)
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Especially when you throw in some arbitrary, draconian rules that must be followed in order for said good time to be had.
An example of the actual laws you're casually(draconian) referring to here:
Any debtor whose status was lower than that of his creditor was forced into slavery.
The death penalty was the punishment for even minor offenses, such as stealing a cabbage.
A temporary block on your cell signal is hardly the fucking same, so let's drop the drama already.