Tesla Unveils New Model S, Its Quickest Production Car (bloomberg.com) 175
Electric car maker Tesla said Tuesday that it is launching a 100-kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery for its Model S and Model X cars. A report on Bloomberg says: Tesla is adding versions of its Model S sedan and Model X sport utility vehicle with a more powerful battery pack that the company said makes the Model S the world's quickest production car and gives it range of 315 miles on a single charge. Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk is trying to appeal to sports car enthusiasts with the new Model S P100D with a 100 kilowatt-hour battery, which with Ludicrous mode can go from a standstill to 60 miles per hour in 2.5 seconds, compared with 2.8 seconds for the P90D Ludicrous version. The P100D Ludicrous upgrade costs $10,000 for customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous but haven't taken delivery, or $20,000 for owners who already have that vehicle type.
*The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:5, Interesting)
While true that the P100D will be Tesla's quickest production car, the news is that it is *the* quickest production car that is currently made and available to purchase new. That one little word makes a difference.
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That caveat also makes a difference. Two 2014 production cars were faster to 60, and I suspect there'll be a few that are rather faster around a track and significantly faster in a 2 hour race.
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Which two *production* cars would those be?
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Hmm, one of them may be a 2015 car, depends how you count. But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] is a good start point, learn to use Google or DuckDuckGo if you'd like other references.
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So, none that are currently in production. And were a very limited, hand built 'production' run.
As long as we're being clear, that's cool.
Re:*The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:5, Funny)
Do you mean Chrysler?
Re: *The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:2)
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Except this vehicle goes fast in a straight line, handles pretty well (not supercar well, but for 4 door? Definitely.) is ALL electric, seats 7, and is pretty close to being able to drive itself. And your numbers are off by 10x, it was $450M, not $4.9B. Due 2022, paid off in full in 2013.
I think they have earned the right to bleat on a bit.
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I think Tesla is the only US based car company that didn't get a handout.
They did get a loan, and they did pay that back in full.
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If they're not IN production, then they're NOT production cars.
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Re: *The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:2)
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Re: *The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:2)
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I'd still pick the bike though, lane splitting gives you an advantage no car can compete with. It's a common joke among riders when listening to car people talk about "sports cars". It's like two bums arguing over who stinks the least.
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So bitter. Yet still no list of production cars.
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The only thing the tesla is fastest at is bursting into flames.
The two production cars faster than the P100D are:
- Ferrari Laferrari, of which 499 have been made. A quick Google search reveals at least two have caught fire, and a recall was issued by Ferrarri because of the fire risk.
- Porsche 918 Spyder, of which 918 have been made. A quick Google search reveals at least one burned down at a gas station in Canada.
Compare that to the almost 150,000 Teslas on the road today (100 times as many). Looks like "fastest car to catch fire" is no contest here.
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This (for me) is actually the issue. These cars are not actually that "fast" generally, they are only fast in a straight line. You don't see any Teslas at amateur (or professional) racing events because they overheat after just a few minutes of spirited driving. To get the range and acceleration you want requires so much weight for the battery that they don't corner very well.
What is the maximum Gs you can pull on a Tesla around a corner? Not too high, I would wager. But nobody talks about that.
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"fastest to 60" is not top fucking speed.
If you're going to be pedantic at least be accurate.
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Except it is not true.
We're building a list of quicker cars down thread.
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LOL, none of which are production cars.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
the limited production Ariel Atom 500 V8 with a 500 bhp (373 kW; 507 PS) V8 engine
Limited production is not a production car.
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True. From Digital Trends [digitaltrends.com]:
The automaker now bills the Model S as the quickest production car in the world, but there are a couples [sic] issues with that statement. Both the Ferrari LaFerrari and Porsche 918 Spyder are quicker off the line by one tenth of a second or so, which would make the Model S the third-fastest car in the world, not the first. Don’t worry though, Tesla has an explanation.
“Both the LaFerrari and the Porsche 918 Spyder were limited run, million-dollar vehicles and cannot be bought new,” the brand said. “While those cars are small two seaters with very little luggage space, the pure electric, all-wheel drive Model S P100D has four doors, seats up to 5 adults plus 2 children and has exceptional cargo capacity.”
Perhaps “quickest car in the world that can be purchased new in 2016” would be a better title, however that doesn’t exactly roll off the fingertips. At any rate, the Model S and Model X are now faster than almost anything on the road, and with its new power source, the Model S is the first production EV to cross the coveted 300-mile range mark.
Dubbed P100D, the electric powertrain [with the new, 100kWh battery pack] drops the Model S’ 0 to 60 time down to just 2.5 seconds, and total range has been increased from 294 miles to 315 miles. The Model X P100D sees similar improvements, as the heavier vehicle can now sprint to 60 mph in 2.9 ticks and drive for 289 miles without recharging.
Not bad. If you got the garage space and some change for a charging rig, they've got a superfast car you can use to take the kids to the pool... if you can stand telling them "no" a million times when they beg, beg, beg you to gun it in "ludicrous mode" off the traffic light (I said... DO NOT TOUCH!) and Tesla should definitely offer some super-secure teen-driver proofing so your kid with the freshly minted driver's license doesn't squish himself on a joy-ride whilst you and the m
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...Tesla should definitely offer some super-secure teen-driver proofing so your kid with the freshly minted driver's license doesn't squish himself on a joy-ride whilst you and the missus are reconnecting on holiday.
They do. It's called valet mode: An in-depth look at ‘Valet Mode’ for the Tesla Model S [teslarati.com]
Re: *The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:3)
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Outstanding. My only thought is I wish they still made the roadster. There's a guy who parks one from time to time in front of where I work, and it always catches my eye cause of how good it looks. Tiny, as most roadsters are, but real good lookin'.
Re: *The* Quickest, Not *Its* Quickest (Score:2)
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I don't think it would be as good looking. The original Tesla Roadster had a body made by Lotus (basically from the same molds) based on the Elise. Unfortunately, for some re
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And for the record, the Arial Atom is a production car that costs less then 150K that's faster. But since ass hats like yourself
Sorry, but saying "for the record" does not make it true. The Conditions of Sale for an Atom purchased from Sector111 (California dealer) include this: Ariel Atom 3s Are Not Considered To Be Federalized, Production Vehicles And Do Not Necessarily Meet Applicable FMVSS Criteria. Therefore, Ariel Atom 3s Are Not Available With 17-Digit VIN Or PIN Numbers.
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The Atom V8 does not conform to US legislation, but it is road-legal in other countries. So it is a production car.
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It's not Tesla's fault if a stupid driver loses control. While I haven't driven a car with ludicrous speed, my P85 handles acceleration quite well. The traction and stability control of my model S works extremely well. Any stupid driver can cause an accident and lose control.
My experience with my model S is that it is very forgiving despite having so much power and it's very good at maintaining control. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the Prius I drove previously.
How fast is the 0 to 88 MPH speed? (Score:4, Funny)
How fast is the 0 to 88 MPH speed?
Re:How fast is the 0 to 88 MPH speed? (Score:4, Funny)
One more bump in battery power and it won't need a Mr. Fusion or a lightning strike.
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Delta time (Score:2)
It's a bit complicated.
Once it hits 88MPH, the clock sometimes measures as low as -60 years [wikipedia.org].
Once the clock was even show the lowest point of -70 years, but it was after getting hit by ligthning [wikipedia.org].
But mileage is shitty, it eats 1.21 jigowatts.
Ludicrous (Score:2)
>"The P100D Ludicrous upgrade costs $10,000 for customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous but haven't taken delivery, or $20,000 for owners who already have that vehicle type."
What is ludicrous is not just the speed, but the price! :)
Oh, and do note, in that mode your range will be ludicrously low...
Batteries are expensive (Score:3)
It's not abnormal
The battery, not the motor, is the most expensive part in an electric car.
There are electric car makers who sell you only an empty car, and rent you the battery.
e.g.: Renault's Zoé
These cars are rather cheap.
(And in case of the Zoé, Renault have stated that:
- they DON'T do remote kills, even if they technically own the battery
- in fact they don't do any DRM on the battery
- you could in theory stop paying the battery, bring it back, and refit the car with something else (yup, they
built the scale version (Score:2, Funny)
lol, very true.
I just added a Ludicrous mode to my mobility scooter last weekend. Was even going to call it that, but label too long :(
24v scooter now runs off of 60v and uses the little wheelie bars on it extensively :))
Mine is more like 0-6 mph in .25 seconds. Really it is probably close to that and top end of 20 mph or so in 1 sec
The 'hold my beer and watch this' mode is next but i doubt the motor will survive 72v for long.
If the full size car is half as much fun..... ;)
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I gotta admit, I read the first sentence:
[...] a more powerful battery pack that the company said makes the Model S the world's quickest production car and gives it range of 315 miles on a single charge.
And my first thought was, "I think you meant 'OR'."
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>And my first thought was, "I think you meant 'OR'."
+1 Bingo :)
Ludicrous version? (Score:2)
Why's it called the Ludicrous version? Does it go to plaid?
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No, the Maximum Plaid mode is being planned for the future roadster model.
Move, bitch. Get out the way. (Score:2, Offtopic)
Do you think I can get this "Ludacris" mode retrofitted onto my '95 Mazda Protege?
https://youtu.be/G9ITtVbx-c4 [youtu.be]
I'm not a Musk-car fan, but knowing it has a Ludacris mode makes me really want one.
Alarming Battery Costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Alarming Battery Costs (Score:4, Interesting)
The battery is good for 900,000 miles to 80% capacity remaining. Accelerated testing confirms it, as do drivers with 300k miles or more on their cars. It's basically 2x a typical petrol engine, similar to a diesel.
When it's end of life you can sell it for recycling into other applications like home UPS/solar storage.
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Being that Musk wants to get into that business for the home, couldn't they just set it up so you can replace your battery in your Tesla then have the old battery delivered and installed for a personal UPS/solar storage? I assume if you're wealthy enough to own a Tesla, you can probably afford this as well.
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Personally the extreme cost of the batteries (much higher than say a replacement engine) leaves me with big questions about how viable electric cars will be from a maintenance perspective.
They said the same thing about Prius batteries 15 years ago. Battery prices came down, and the batteries are very reliable. I still see some first generation Prii running around.
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Re:Alarming Battery Costs (Score:5, Informative)
While on the surface that sounds like a lot of money, its important to remember that current model Teslas are premium products and are priced accordingly. More modest EVs, with their smaller packs, will be much more economical.
For example Chevy has said they've gotten the pack price for their upcoming Chevy Bolt down to around $145/kWh, since they're planning on a 60kWh pack that works out to about $8,700 for the pack - after "profits" they'll probably sell replacements for 10k. That sounds like quite a bit, but when you consider that the pack should provide a usable lifetime range between 6-8 years its not that bad.
* At 6 years that's about $1,666 annually, or $32/week.
* At 8 years that's about $1,250 annually, or $24/week.
Granted your experience will differ, for me its about $1 daily to fill up my 2015 Nissan Leaf since I don't drain the battery to empty. I'd expect a similar experience even if the pack size were larger than the current 24kWh pack I have. I've owned the Leaf two years now and I've spent perhaps, at most, $600 to fuel my car - or about $300 annually or $5.75 weekly. So using the examples above that takes the "fuel" costs up to:
* 6 years = $1,666 + $300 = $1,966 or $37.80/week
* 8 years = $1,250 + $300 = $1,550 or $29.80/week
When I drove gas I spent upward of $40/week, about $2,080 annually, in fuel. When I consider the maintenance I'm no longer doing - oil changes, spark plugs, various belts, transmission, etc... - along with the cheaper insurance, my rates actually went down and I'm now paying about $75 monthly on a brand new car!, it works out to be cheaper overall. All in, without digging out my old receipts and doing the math, I was easily at least $50-$60 weekly ($15k-$25k total over 6/8 years) keeping my gas car running.
However unlike a gas car which has these charges spread over the 6 to 8 years, making it easy to not notice them, when the time comes to replace the pack in an EV you pay it all out at once and this makes it looks like an expensive vehicle to maintain. Granted it is a lot of money to spend at one time on a car, but Total Cost of Ownership between EVs and Gas over time have no contest - EVs are far cheaper over the long term to maintain and run than a gas car. The biggest expense on EVs are tires, brakes, suspension, air conditioning, and the battery pack. Brakes seldom need to be replaced due to regenerative braking, tires are tires - everyone replaces those, and suspension and AC are just parts of the standard vehicle maintenance. But all the rest that comes with owning an ICE engine you just don't have that and you couldn't pay me to go back, I've got better things to spend my money on.
And this, of course, assumes that you're going to replace the pack after 6-8 years. If the degraded pack still meets your needs, you can continue to drive on it until it doesn't. Additionally the battery tech is getting better all the time, so as the technology improves replacements will get cheaper and existing packs in newer vehicles will maintain their usable life for longer periods - the TCO will just get lower.
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6-8 years battery replacement? Why would you replace a perfectly working battery with well over 80% of its charge left?
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I did it at 100k miles on my Honda, and I'll probably do it again at 200k.
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If a snail were driving it fast. (Score:5, Funny)
Observers would say "Look at that S car go!'
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Very few people know, but some years back I actually used to be a professional snail racer. I was very successful too, as my primary racing snail, Guinness, was so fast, by snail standards anyway, that for years he was unbeatable.
Unfortunately, like for all of us, age started catching up with him and he started slowing down. Not much at first, but, race after race, it became more and more noticeable. I must admit watching him get slower and slower was a thoroughly depressing experience and I tried everythin
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Track? (Score:2)
Re: Track? (Score:2)
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Probably not too well. I know a guy who can buy whatever car he wants, pretty much loaded. He just bought a BMW M2 because it's small and light and he loves the way it handles. He tried the Tesla and just found it too ponderous for his taste. It is a heavy family car, after all.
Re: Track? (Score:2)
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Actually the car does fairly well on a skidpad due to the CG being so low. The range of a gasoline car is also significantly lower on a track as well and a gas car doesn't have regenerative braking. As others have said, they've improved the thermal management in the newer cars.
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Awesome! (Score:2)
A stupid-fast car that I can't take to the track without overheating the battery after one lap and replacing the tires after tearing them up trying to put a 2100kg car around a corner at speed.
Re: Awesome! (Score:2)
Any one else read the actual press release? (Score:2)
"While the P100D Ludicrous is obviously an expensive vehicle, we want to emphasize that every sale helps pay for the smaller and much more affordable Tesla Model 3 that is in development. Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development."
https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world
Given Tesla's history of missed dates and missed production numbers, sh
Re: Any one else read the actual press release? (Score:2)
Honest question (Score:2)
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Same as the Atom 500. And they will both do it more than once per day.
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Not a production car.
I mean, shit, they produce 100 per YEAR.
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You keep saying that as if you know better, but they keep calling it a *limited* production car.
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You keep saying that as if you know better, but they keep calling it a *limited* production car.
A limited production car is a subset of all production cars. As far as classification goes, the term "production car" comes from the rules for various group autoracing - see this for overview [wikipedia.org] - and each group has different rules for allowing cars. Some need production cars with at least 2500 produced per year while others allowed a mere 200/year production run[1].
The classification "production car" for all groups means "a car produced for sale to the public". No more, no less. Even a handcrafted Bentley is
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LOL, Tesla is actually planning on a production line or two for it.
Not a few hundred, hand built 'production' cars.
Oh, and costs less than $500,000, unlike all the hand built labor of those other 'production' cars.
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It must make you so angry to realize how much more Musk has accomplished already compared to what you will ever be able to accomplish. He's become a billionaire three times over - paypal, tesla, spaceX - and driven those arenas far further forward than anyone else at the time.
And the most you're capable of is calling people moron on the internet.
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What part of the term "splitting hairs" do you not understand?
Christ, AC's, 2.5 seconds 0-60 in a street-legal sedan that seats five is fuck fucking fast. That's an acceleration of 24 mph per second or 1.09g's.
At a fraction of the cost of a Bugatti Veyron. Probably less for insurance, too. So what if some hand-made toy for sons of oil barons squeaks 0.1 second more? You have better odds of strapping a solid-rocket to your Chevy [darwinawards.com] than driving, much less obtaining, one of these so-called supercars that look
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But that's no longer in production. Are there any faster cars you can buy today?
The price on that Porsche ($850,000+) makes the Teslas seem positively sensible!
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While the 918 Spyder is its own thing...even just relatively "regular" Porsches are pushing up against it...
The 2014 911 Turbo S did it in 2.6
The 2017 911 Turbo S is expected to do it in at least 2.5s if not faster; so even if can't buy one today, its not like its going to be long at all before a bevy of high end cars can do it.
And the tech in the 918 is going to be showing up all over the place within a year or 3.
Not to take anything away from the Tesla, any car that can do 0-60 in 2.5s is impressive in it
Re:Nah (Score:5, Informative)
First para. of Tesla's blog entry of today with the announcement; emphasis added:
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The wording on that was misleading enough I had to go check - the quote you made is indeed from official tesla.com blurb. I'm wondering how 5 adults and 2 children can fit in that car!? I mean, do the kids have to sit in the boot? When I was a kid we occasionally had to sit in the boot for a quick trip to the park with half a dozen of our friends, but these days I doubt it's even legal (and certainly not something claimed by the car manufacturers).
The pictures of the model S have two seats at the front. The
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The Porsche 918 Spyder cannot be purchased new anymore [caranddriver.com]. And I don't think you could call it a production car even when it was being made, as it was not made on a mass production line. There were only a relatively small number built.
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CA may treat it as a production car for the purposes of licensing, but if a normal asshole can't go down to a dealer with a fistful of cash and buy one then it's not one.
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The Porsche 918 is not a production car. It is largely built by hand in very limited production runs. Here...watch a video [caranddriver.com] of its production.
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Porsche 918 Spyder is 0-60 in 2.3s. Elon has a ways to go still.
On the other hand, an electric motor can easily produce its maximum torque at stall.
An electric car, with adequately sized motors, controllers, and batteries (or other power sources) should be able to drive the tires to the traction limit from a standing start to the speed where the available power will no longer sustain that level of acceleration - well over 60 MPH. This means the acceleration is limited solely by the coefficient of friction
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Are you aware that the Porsche 918 Spyder has two electric motors? It's a plug-in hybrid.
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Re:Nah (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is a google search [google.ca] for "car fires". Thousands of pictures of gasoline cars on fire. Here is another search [google.ca] for "Lamborghini Fires". There are many. How many recent Tesla fires can you mention? I'll bet is is approximately two. And yet they are reported ad nauseum. And filthy trolls like you act as if they happen all the time. They don't.
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The only thing a tesla is good for is starting on fire.
Holy crap! Last time I lit my car on fire it wouldn't start at all.
Tesla impresses me more every day.
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"Wake me when the Tesla becomes an affordable car.
"
Early adopters spend lots of money now, so that later you can spend a lot less for the same thing. It's been that way with all new tech.
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Go to sleep until next year when the Model 3 comes out.
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Re: Yawn (Score:2)
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It's interesting how the Model 3 is already screwing all the other EV manufacturers so badly, even though it isn't out for more than a year (and likely 2019 for general availability in the UK, first year's production is already sold).
Other manufacturers are struggling to catch up. For example, Nissan say they will start offering some kind of auto-pilot soon, but it will be single lane and limited to 30-60 MPH. Pretty useless really, can't operate in start-stop traffic or at motorway speeds. Nissan don't do
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Obviously electric vehicles (today) aren't a fit for everyone. ...but they are a great fit for most people. Range anxiety disappears after a couple weeks behind the wheel.
Re: 315 miles? Getting there! (Score:2)
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Nah. Please skip buying EVs. Within 5 years, you will find it is slim pickings for new cars, BUT you will be able to buy used 2 y.o S class MB for 10-20,000.
Luxury cars are built for the first buyer. That 2 year old S-Class is going to cost you another 10-20k in repairs if you want everything on it to work. It's not just MB either. A guy on the QW D2 A8 forum says his wife's Q7 (IIRC) just literally blew up two of its four airbags because it got confused. He dad to have his wife bleed pressure from the other two at a fitting (!) just to get home.
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What it amounts to, is that luxury sedans are going to take a HUGE dive in resale value when M3 hits the market.
Then when MY hits, I believe that even the luxury X-overs will have major resale value losses.
As that sinks into the wealthy, they will INSIST on buying only electric and only ones that are like Tesla.
They are not going to buy junk like I3.