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Japan Transportation

Mitsubishi Overstated Mileage For More Vehicle Models, Japan Ministry Says (reuters.com) 56

Posted by msmash from the scandal-s01 dept.
Earlier this year Mitsubishi admitted to using some less-than-correct tactics when calculating the fuel economy of four of its Japanese market vehicles. But that wasn't the end of the scandal. The Japanese transport ministry has announced that its investigation into Mitsubishi's practices has revealed eight additional vehicles with misreported fuel economy numbers. Reuters reports: Earlier in the day, Japan's transport ministry said its investigation had shown the automaker had overstated the fuel economy for eight vehicles including the RVR, Pajero and Outlander SUV models, in addition to four minivehicles initially confirmed in April. The latest announcement deals another reputational blow to Japan's sixth-largest automaker, which has been struggling to recover from the mileage scandal, which affected two minivehicle models produced for Nissan Motor Co Ltd. The company's market value has tumbled since the scandal broke, and the ordeal prompted the company to seek financial assistance from Nissan, which agreed to buy a controlling one-third stake for $2.2 billion.
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Mitsubishi Overstated Mileage For More Vehicle Models, Japan Ministry Says More

Mitsubishi Overstated Mileage For More Vehicle Models, Japan Ministry Says

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  • I think you accidentally (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pushing-robot ( 1037830 ) on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:11PM (#52797813)

    a word.

    • Does anyone out there really use these mileage numbers in the decision making part of buying a car? Really?

      I mean, sure, they are there...everyone gives them a cursory glance, but do the numbers really play any meaningful role in most peoples' decision on which brand or model car to buy?

      i buy cars that make me happy and will be fun to drive. All I'm looking for is what is the best can I can afford to enjoy driving for the money I can spend....gas mileage, I don't really even look at...

      • Re:Does anyone really use these numbers? (Score:4)

        by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:36PM (#52797997) Journal

        "i buy cars that make me happy and will be fun to drive. All I'm looking for is what is the best can I can afford to enjoy driving for the money I can spend....gas mileage, I don't really even look at..."

        Just because you don't doesn't mean all of us don't.

        Gas mileage was one of my top criteria for choosing a car. I bought a car that advertised 27 mpg city, 37 highway, combined 30 mpg. I get around 32 mpg combined, or 35 when I am driving to maximize gas mileage. Overall, I have dropped my gas expenditures 100 dollars per month (roughly) for a car that was under $14,000.

        So yes, many people like me do use it as a criterion for their car purchase.

        • I just assume that the numbers are cooked or wrong but that all manufacturers are wrong or cheat the same so it is good to use as a comparison between similar cars. I do take gas mileage into consideration as I do drive a lot and my current car gets about 30% greater mileage than my previous one but (went from about 26 mpg highway to about 37 mpg highway).

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            I just assume that the numbers are cooked or wrong but that all manufacturers are wrong or cheat the same so it is good to use as a comparison between similar cars. I do take gas mileage into consideration as I do drive a lot and my current car gets about 30% greater mileage than my previous one but (went from about 26 mpg highway to about 37 mpg highway).

            Actually, they're not cooked, or try not to be. There's actually a test protocol to get those numbers, which is *based* on real world driving, but doesn't

        • And, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid. Oregon charged me $50 more to register it because "we don't get as much gas tax from it". Then I realized that the savings on gas were pretty much balanced out by paying more for the car and another $3000 every 8 to 10 years to replace the hybrid batteries. I still look at EPA mileage estimates, but I've come to realize there is no such thing as a free lunch.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by MouseR ( 3264 )

            You wont have to replace your hybrid battery. That's myth brought on by cheap laptop & cell phones horrible power managements. Further propagated by the Cock Brothers (typo intended).

            Sparkie [voltstats.net] raked up more than 118,000 EV miles, on a car with more than 330,000 miles with no loss of charge on his 2012 Chevy Volt.

            Chevy has recently mentioned is has replaced exactly NONE [hybridcars.com] of it's > 100,000 Volt batteries out there du to degradation.

            • Lithium ion batteries degrade over time. With current technology, this can be slowed by smart battery management and using high quality cells but not stopped. It's accelerated by state of charge and high temperature.

              It's only been 4 years since 2012.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by MouseR ( 3264 )

                118,000 EV miles. 53 miles per charge. That's 2,226 full charge cycles. Sparkie travels an average of 66,000 miles per year (long commute) since 2011 (2012 model... 2011... 5 years).

                That's more distance than most will do with their dino cars.

                Proper thermal management is done on these batteries because GM did their work: they have the largest battery [gmauthority.com] lab.

                The Volt's Gen2 battery is 18.5kw but only about 14.5 is available for driving. The remainder is used for thermal management and avoiding deep charge cycles

      • Yes, I **really** do use these mileage numbers as a key factor in deciding what vehicle to buy. Though, actually, there are other numbers that are more telling of fuel economy, like the number of cylinders and displacement; the weight and physical dimensions of the car; the presence or absence of hybrid or EV drive; and performance.

        It's all thermodynamics. Simple physics. Easy stuff. Let's see:

        1) The faster an object accelerates, the more energy it requires to reach a given speed.
        2) The heavier an object is

        • Addendum: And in case your beef is with the EPA MPG ratings (or the equivalent in your country), here's a real simple technique to determine fuel economy for yourself. A dealer may not let you do this with a car before you buy it, but you could certainly do it with a rental car or a friend's car, or one you currently own.

          Assuming you trust the MPG measured by the vehicle itself: On most modern vehicles, when you turn off the car, it will tell you your MPG for the trip you just made. This MPG is not an extra

        • 1) The amount of energy required to reach a certain speed increases as the rate of acceleration lowers, not the other way around (due to the increased time it takes, more energy is converted to heat via friction). The efficiency of the engine may drastically reduce when you make it produce more power though.
          On the other hand, the faster an object accelerates, the more energy it requires to reach a given distance as it will be travelling faster, which implies more friction.

          2) A car with regenerative braking

      • It was the #3 deciding factor of my purchase.

        #1 - within my budget (this eliminated Tesla, sadly)

        #2 - 3rd row seat

        #3 - highest MPG possible.

        #4 - AWD/Towing

        I bought a 2014 Nissan Rogue, equipped with a 3rd row, rated at 32MPG HWY/25CITY. I expected to at least get around 27-28MPG. I do not get anywhere close to that. I recently drove a Jeep Cherokee rental. It got equivalent gas mileage. So ya, not happy with Nissan, as I sacrificed ability to "tow" for better gas MPG. And it hasn't been even close to

  • stupid car article day on Slashdot?

  • Headline: "Mitsubishi says"

    Summary: "Japan's transport ministry said"

  • But the Japanese are honorable and they would do nothing to bring shame to themselves or their company. At least that is the myth.

    • Getting caught is what brings shame. They didn't choose to get caught.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by I4ko ( 695382 )
      That was before USA took away their personhood out by bombing them with atomic bombs, raped their women, and occupied their country illegally for over 70 years now. Actual heads of corporations are Americans, and we all know how they lie. Japanese are just string puppets.
      • Oh, right! It is the USAs fault of course. The Japanese never invaded Korea repeatedly throughout history and raped all their women. They can't be responsible for their actions, they are just puppets. A familiar story.
      • Too bad Japan didn't get the bomb first [wikipedia.org], huh? The world would have been such a better place.
      • Yeah, the US bombed Japan, but uh... wtf on the rest of that. Providing their national defense is not an occupation and it isn't illegal. I also don't know what you're talking about with the corporation thing either. Japan can't afford to keep western CEOs because the pay is so low compared to the west (as in $300K for a large corporation). People like Carlos Chosn (Nissan) and Howard Stringer (Former Sony) are very rare. If you want to talk about foreign interests pushing the Japanese around, usually Japan

  • My engrish isn't too good. Perhaps if this was explained with some sort of car analogy it would make more sense?

  • Really? A car called "Pajero"?

    Years ago, a buddy of mine from Honduras told me that was local slang for "jagoff". We used to call each other "Paja" for short, it was hilarious. I never heard it used again until now!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Shatrat ( 855151 )

      That's why it was renamed the Montero when sold between the Atlantic and Pacific.

      • Re: Pajero? (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Huh? Montero? Where I come from that's what people call a bunch of faggots buttfucking each other in a big gay circle.

      • That's as bad as a Buick LaCrosse - that also means masturbation in Canada, where they rename the car to "Allure". Absolutely hilarious! Don't they do searches for this shit?

  • That's fine but don't involve the slashdot tech world in your search.

    • Last I checked, vehicles are among the most technologically advanced products commonly purchased by consumers. They somewhat-reliably and comfortably transfer a large amount of stored potential energy from chemical fuels into kinetic energy of human beings and cargo. They do this while keeping the inhabitants entertained, informed, and sometimes safe. These feats are accomplished using a fusion of mechanical, electrical, chemical, materials and computer engineering, with state-of-the-art research in all of

  • Difference Between Asian & Western Executives (Score:3)

    by Luthair ( 847766 ) on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:40PM (#52798033)

    Asia - we're sorry

    Western - fuck you, we did nothing wrong even though we've agreed to pay this massive fine.

    • Asia: No you can't sue them. They already admitted guilt and paid the government a fine and compensation. If you were harmed by their actions, go collect your share of the compensation through the government's compensation program.

      Western: Yup, they said they were guilty. Sue them for everything they're worth.

      When you make it an incalculable liability to admit guilt, you shouldn't be surprised when people refuse to admit guilt.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Plammox ( 717738 )
        Except that no European VW owners will ever see any compensation for VW's fraudulent behaviour. This is only in the USA, AFAIK.
  • Go drive around for a while, and see how long it takes you to see a Mitsubishi on the road!
  • Don't the mileage and emissions numbers come from tests performed by the vehicle manufacturer themselves, and not by an independent third party? Meaning that not only would any sane person expect them to be inaccurate, but also that the solution is obvious. Oh, and if you're going to do emissions testing, run it for an hour on a dynamometer at highway speeds -- let's see them rig the firmware to cheat on that!

    • > Don't the mileage and emissions numbers come from tests performed by the vehicle manufacturer themselves,

      https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/test... [epa.gov]

      Not sure about Japan, but US does have the manufactures report the tests and results to the EPA, and the EPA reviews, and will then test 15%-20% of the vehicles themselves.

      Issue is that manufactures need to advertise cars in advance of when they go on sale, with Fuel economy posted. So they are not production models, but prototypes. So they will change things, rem

    • run it for an hour on a dynamometer at highway speeds -- let's see them rig the firmware to cheat on that!

      If it were me, I'd use the accelerometer and gyro in the traction control system to detect if the car is actually moving. The car isn't going to go over random bumps or turn a corner when it's strapped on a dyno.

  • Should just be able to do a mind meld and get to the bottom of this. Is basically EVERYONE doing this? Yeesh.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • I commute over a 100+ miles a day. Mostly highway. I had a Nissan Versa rated for 38mpg, that averaged around 35.5mpg. Not bad. 93% of rated HWY.

    I now have a Nissan Rogue, rated for 32mpg. Now I average around 23.5MPG, or around 73% of the rated HWY mileage.

    =(

    • I bought a 2014 Nissan Rogue, equipped with a 3rd row, rated at 32MPG HWY/25CITY. I expected to at least get around 27-28MPG. I do not get anywhere close to that. I recently drove a Jeep Cherokee rental. It got equivalent gas mileage. So ya, not happy with Nissan, as I sacrificed ability to "tow" for better gas MPG. And it hasn't been even close to the rating. And as you can see, my 23.5MPG is pretty typical. That's a "big" miss.
      http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg... [fueleconomy.gov]

      If that wasn't bad enough, my HVAC syste

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