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Communications Television

FCC Chief To Unveil Revised Plan To Eliminate Cable Boxes (fortune.com) 149

The top U.S. communications regulator plans to unveil a revised plan to allow about 100 million pay TV subscribers to replace expensive set-top boxes with less-costly apps that provide access to television and video programs, Fortune reports. From the report: Federal Communications Commission Chairman Tom Wheeler proposed in January opening the $20 billion cable and satellite TV set-top box market to new competitors and allow consumers to access multiple content providers from a single app or device. The plan, aimed at breaking the cable industry's long grip on the lucrative pay TV market and lowering prices for consumers, drew fierce opposition from TV and content providers, including AT&T, Comcast and Twenty-First Century Fox. The FCC has said Americans spend $20 billion a year to lease pay-TV boxes, or an average of $231 annually. Set-top box rental fees have jumped 185 percent since 1994, while the cost of TVs, computers and mobile phones has dropped 90 percent, the FCC has estimated. Update: 09/08 19:18 GMT by M :Tom Wheeler has just published the proposed laws at LATimes.
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FCC Chief To Unveil Revised Plan To Eliminate Cable Boxes

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  • apps so they can lock down and change outlet fees.

    • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      If the current situation is boxes that are rented, and that can be updated remotely. Couldn't they do all that now anyway?
      • by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @03:03PM (#52850155)

        If the current situation is boxes that are rented, and that can be updated remotely. Couldn't they do all that now anyway?

        Yes, and that's one of the bullshit fees cable companies charges that needs to go away.
        Back in the cable-ready-tv analog cable days, you paid for the service and it covered your whole house.
        The excuse for adding these fees was the cost and upkeep of the equipment -- but it was really just a money grab.
        There's no reason you should have to pay per-TV for service with software apps.
        There might be an argument for per USER fees, but if I live alone and have two TVs (one in the bedroom and one in the living room), should I have to pay extra even though I can only watch one TV at a time?

        Do you pay for each phone you have in your house anymore?
        Does the water company charge for each bathroom in your home?

        • Do you pay for each phone you have in your house anymore?

          Yes, I do. We cut the landline years ago, cell phones only these days.

          Does the water company charge for each bathroom in your home?

          Depends on how much crap you have in your family. Of course they charge per flush, as that is total water used. This analogy doesn't quite hold because only Comcast is trying to treat electrons like water or gas, and you don't really need any "special equipment" to convert said water or gas into something usable. There's no adapter you need to rent to convert the sludge in your water pipes to drinkable water, no adapter to convert gas int

  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @01:50PM (#52849535) Homepage

    1) Declare that no set top box can be rented more than 2 years - automatically converting them "rent to own".

    2) Require all cable companies to have an App Market - charging no more than 30% / $1 (which ever is higher) to the app maker selling apps. These apps would be allowed to duplicate/replace any current function of the set top box, including programming DVR's, showing a channel guide, renting/selling movies, or accessing the internet or other provider services.

    • also all gateway fees must be part of the base rate as well.

    • no outlet or mirroring fees as well.

    • by Archangel Michael ( 180766 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @02:15PM (#52849737) Journal

      How about simply moving the Franchise agreements away from the last mile, and let consumers choose what service / company provides what they want/need?

      We wouldn't need "regulators" to "regulate" that which should be free and open competition, rather than creating mroe regulations to fix what regulations (Franchise agreements) have already broken. The answer isn't more regulation, it is moving the problem so that regulation isn't required at all.

      The problem is last mile. Currently there is no option for "last mile" other than government granted monopoly. FIX t that problem and all the other problems go a way. It isn't that hard to solve, just have to do it.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )


        The problem is last mile. Currently there is no option for "last mile" other than government granted monopoly.

        Negating the government-granted monopoly means that companies won't build infrastructure in areas, because it's not profitable enough.
        You have a "natural monopoly" called Cables in the ground, and the ability to put them there is massively expensive.

        I think the only workable way is to keep the monopoly on the Cables, but require the 'feed' providers be separate companies and lease access to l

        • Negating the government-granted monopoly means that companies won't build infrastructure in areas, because it's not profitable enough.

          Then why do I have two different competing fiber optic cable systems in my franchise-less region? I live a few miles outside of a small town in a semi-rural area and I've got three different fiber pedestals in my yard.

          40 miles away in a bigger city, a second-tier cable provider has an exclusive franchise and people pay 50% more for lousy speeds over coax and shitty service.

          • by mysidia ( 191772 )

            Then why do I have two different competing fiber optic cable systems in my franchise-less region?

            I'm in an unincorporated area just outside a city, that's semi-rural but rapidly growing, and there's no fibre optic available period. It's not that the government
            is stopping potential providers or granting monopolies; perhaps large providers choosing not to come in and build / compete
            out of their own free will, because it doesn't make sense as a long term investment.

            There are many possible reasons that

    • #1 just guarantees that the cable companies will come up with some unnecessary horseshit compatibility-breaking change to their systems every 2 years in order to keep rent-seeking. And, you'll be stuck with the old piece of shit set-top box that's useless and have to dispose of it yourself. Win / win.

    • Problem w/ that is - will all phone architectures be supported? Or will it just be iOS and Android, while users of Blackberry or Lumia, who until then would have been using WiFi, would now have no way to configure their internet connection. Unless the way one configures that is through a web browser
    • 1) Declare that no set top box can be rented more than 2 years - automatically converting them "rent to own".

      2) Require all cable companies to have an App Market - charging no more than 30% / $1 (which ever is higher) to the app maker selling apps. These apps would be allowed to duplicate/replace any current function of the set top box, including programming DVR's, showing a channel guide, renting/selling movies, or accessing the internet or other provider services.

      Why pay for them at all?

  • Canada has where all companies have to offer Cable Boxes, and DVRs on a Full Purchase, Rent to Own, and Rent Only basis?

    • Canada is not a model.
      Cable boxes are expensive here too. Especially DVRs. And they only work with one provider.

      • Canada isn't an option, because the problem is in the Franchised last mile agreements. More regulations aren't really needed if you are able to solve the last mile problem. I have a solution, it is a responsible one, that frees up competition so that there is no government granted monopoly, on which to build additional government granted restrictions to competition. That isn't solving the problem that is building a whole enterprise on top the problem and calling the problem solved (it isn't).

        It is really ea

        • And what is your magical solution?

          • Municipal owned last mile infrastructure.

            Last mile is brought back to a COLO Facility where the competition happens for the customer. Last mile is just a transport media not owned by anyone but the local municipality.

            Car analogy, it is a road, and the competition for delivery happens at UPS, FedEx and US Mail. (rough analogy, not perfect)

            • It might work. But how do you implement it? You seize/nationalize the current infrastructure from telcos and cablecos? You lay a third cable and compete with them?
              And why municipal? Why not another government?

    • Rent to OWN?

      I had a robbers cable box for 10+ years.
      I wanted to just buy it.
      They wanted to the same price as if it was new: $300+ !!!
      WTF!!

  • by bigdady92 ( 635263 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @01:52PM (#52849547) Homepage
    Get rid of the ridiculous cable boxes. The TV's we have now are a bajillion times more powerful than the ridiculous set top boxes. Why in the world would we need a DVR with the ability to stream shows. If the networks were smart they would just flag shows that people want to watch and when they finally want to view them start the stream.

    That would require some engineering and know how to do. This would cost money, which of course, the cable companies don't want to spend.
    • Re:Good.jpg (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tippen ( 704534 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @02:00PM (#52849615)
      No way I want that embedded in the TV. The lifespan on a TV is too long to keep up with what's going on re: streaming and online services. Keep the TV as a relatively dumb monitor and keep the smarts on something external that can be updated more frequently at significantly less cost.
      • Who said it needs to be in the TV? That's just an example. Use a Roku, Android TV, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, or Windows box if you prefer.

        • by tippen ( 704534 )

          Who said it needs to be in the TV?

          The post I was responding to in the first place :-)

          • He just said the tv could handle it, but pretty much anything else could handle it too. I'd be surprised if at least Android, iOS, and Windows apps weren't made.

    • Get rid of the ridiculous cable boxes. The TV's we have now are a bajillion times more powerful than the ridiculous set top boxes. Why in the world would we need a DVR with the ability to stream shows. If the networks were smart they would just flag shows that people want to watch and when they finally want to view them start the stream.

      That would require some engineering and know how to do. This would cost money, which of course, the cable companies don't want to spend.

      So then your video service now requires Internet access to view "recorded" shows? No thanks. I still want my DVR to keep recorded shows locally stored at my house.

      • >> I still want my DVR to keep recorded shows locally stored at my house.

        Yes, I even have an extra ESATA drive attached. Except when there was a problem with the FIOS somewhere, and I couldn't get TV, and figured I would watch a DVR recording instead, it WOULDN'T LET ME WATCH because it couldn't get the online approval that I was paid up. So it's not good enough that they encrypt the drive, and use a nonstandard disk format (which I know because it was a pain to recover when my old hard drive cra
  • by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Thursday September 08, 2016 @01:56PM (#52849579)
    Cautiously optimistic about this guy, between this, Net Neutrality, and a few other issues. Hard to believe he was a career Cable TV industry guy with the decisions he's been making for the consumer's benefit. Still expecting a bunch of arrows to start shooting out of the walls Indiana Jones-style at some point, though.
    • they will just pull something to keep trump out maybe this will slip by

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      Really? He's pretty weak on net neutrality and wireless providers when push comes to shove. He's a politician, promises a lot but I have yet to see choice in providers, actual net neutrality enforced (TWC still throttles YouTube and Netflix), elimination of arbitrary data caps or overall costs go down.

    • by k6mfw ( 1182893 )
      There was an article (Wired or ?) where they interviewed Wheeler. One of the topics he talked about was back in the days when TV was almost all OTA, TV stations wanted to maintain control which prevented choices and squelched technical advancement that cable TV can offer. Wheeler continued that now it is the cable companies that want to maintain control, prevent choices, and squelch technical advancement (or something like that from what I remember in the article).
  • I just got my CableCard in the mail!
    • We went all-TiVo ourselves. A good amount of upfront cost, but that's fixed. The only thing we rent is one cablecard for the whole house.

  • A cable box might be worth owning if what went into the box for viewing were of high quality. I'd guess 90% or more of it is junk. We should be able to subscribe to just those 10 to 15 channels we want at a reasonable price. Likely the vast majority of channels would go away, particularly those with commercials.
    • by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      A cable box might be worth owning if what went into the box for viewing were of high quality. I'd guess 90% or more of it is junk.

      I'm getting flashbacks of the government subsidized ATSC tuner boxes.

  • "pay-TV providers will be required to provide apps – free of charge– that consumers can download to the device of their choosing". So the cable companies will still have a stranglehold - I don't see independent developers being allowed to create the apps. I can see it now. "Well, yeah, the app really sucks, but we have this nifty box that works so much better, and you'll just have to pay a little bit each month...".

    • That's okay, because all those apps will be on ONE BOX. That's what I want. Right now I have a CableCard tuner that only works with all channels on Windows Media Center. If I want to watch Netflix or Hulu, I have to close that out (they dropped Netflix from WMC), and either switch to the FireTV or Chrome, and use one or more DIFFERENT remotes. It sucks right now.

    • There is no such thing as "free." The end user will be paying for those "free" applications via higher fees and taxes.

  • and continue to use Netflix and Amazon, and if I feel like it step up to using Hulu Plus. All three are still cheaper each month (or year) than cable. If I decide to subscribe to a single web channel, and I have one, it's going to take a lot of channels, plus Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Prime together to catch up to the cost of cable. Honestly I don't care about most of the channels cable has.

  • Just look at the cable card debacle. They purposely underfunded and under engineered support for third party devices with their cable cards. What do you think will happen with this? I guarantee you there will be "delays" and it will be a bear getting anybody to help you if your app on Roku for comcast does not work right. Call me cynical, but do you think they will WILLINGLY give up that cable box revenue stream? Even after they are forced to do so I'd bet they will "roll" the loss of those cable boxes r
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      I guarantee you there will be "delays" and it will be a bear getting anybody to help you if your app on Roku for comcast does not work right.

      That wouldn't be much of a change for Rokus in general in my experience. Their support staff like to blame any issue with the box connecting on your DNS settings for your Internet connection, which coincidentally cant be set on the device itself, so they refer your to your ISP for them to change your router settings to OpenDNS's, they insist this is the problem regardless of if you are having any issues on other devices (including other Rokus).

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