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Most Drivers Who Own Cars With Built-in GPS Systems Use Phones For Directions - Mostly Out of Frustration (cnn.com) 310

Posted by msmash from the unnecessary-technology dept.
According to a new survey, many new car owners use their phones for directions despite their cars coming with built-in navigation systems. These users do it out of frustration, the survey added. CNN adds: The market research firm J.D. Power and Associates surveyed owners of new vehicles after the first 90 days of ownership. They were asked about all kinds of new in-vehicle technology including navigation, entertainment and safety technologies like lane-keeping assistance and automatic braking. For the most part, the survey found, people are relatively satisfied with the technology in their cars. On a 1,000 point scale, the average satisfaction score was 730. Navigation systems rated the worst with an average score of 687. Almost two-thirds of new vehicle owners with a built-in navigation reported using their smartphone or a portable navigation device to find their way at least some of the time. Nearly a third of those with built-in navigation used it for less than two weeks before giving up on it and using their phone or another portable device, according to J.D. Power. And more than half of people with built-in navigation systems never used them at all, according to the survey.
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Most Drivers Who Own Cars With Built-in GPS Systems Use Phones For Directions - Mostly Out of Frustration More

Most Drivers Who Own Cars With Built-in GPS Systems Use Phones For Directions - Mostly Out of Frustration

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  • $300 or $400 for map update (Score:5, Informative)

    by avandesande ( 143899 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:32PM (#53064555) Journal
    Even more reason to skip in car gps option....

    • Re: $300 or $400 for map update (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:35PM (#53064591)

      Yeah. And they charge hundreds for the actual unit in the first place. It'd be cheaper to buy a new Garmin every 6 months than buy an in dash navigation.

      • Re: $300 or $400 for map update (Score:5, Informative)

        by MikeOnBike ( 2816297 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:41PM (#53064659)
        I get tired of Chrysler wanting $150 every couple of years to update the maps in my Jeep. I spent slightly less than that on a 4" Garmin with lifetime updates. And of course when I bought it the dealer assures me that free updates are included. BS, what a ripoff.

        • Re: $300 or $400 for map update (Score:4, Informative)

          by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @05:07PM (#53065341) Homepage Journal

          The problem isn't really even how much they're charging; it's that you can't shop around and use whatever data that you want to (or cheap out with openstreetmap or build your own data as your drive around, or whatever). If they had to compete, I doubt anyone would be complaining about the prices.

      • You don't need new garmins anymore for $100 you can get a tomtom/garmin/whatever with maps for life.

    • I always wondered how they can justify charging more for a map update than the cost of an entirely standalone GPS unit.

      People keep their cars a lot longer than phones. So while the phone keeps getting faster and better over the years, the car stays the same and the onboard navigation starts to feel dated.

      This is why I nearly laughed at my dealer when they suggested I get the car with navigation for $1000 more. Umm yeah, no. That's more than I pay for a whole new phone. Join the present!

      • For quite a bit less than that price you could buy a 10 inch tablet with GPS and just leave that in your car. The display on your phone for GPS can be a little small if you are trying to see the map, but a good size tablet would be really nice.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by b0bby ( 201198 )

          I know a guy who does just that; tethered to his phone, he can do Waze, Here maps or whatever. I like my Garmin + Waze on my phone. The Garmin is really a fallback for non-coverage areas.

    • Re:$300 or $400 for map update (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sharkus ( 677553 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @04:20PM (#53064981)
      Oh I hear you. It's a serious pet peeve of mine. I have a 2014 Kia Forte 5, with the navigation system. They farm out the updates to it to MnSoft, who charge around CAD$300 plus tax for a single update (it's at least $50 for the 16GB SD card the update comes on!) and there are typically two updates a year, so you're looking at CAD$600 plus tax *a year* to keep totally updated. I've contacted Kia Canada and they don't care, they say, it's a third party and there is nothing they can do. Well, more like they don't want to do anything. I've pointed out that a TomTom Go 600 is about $300, and it comes with lifetime maps, ok limited to four updates per year, but that is far far better than the built in solution. When it comes to Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, the 2014 - 2016 models are Gen 3.0 cars and too old to have their system updated for it. Only the 2017+ cars will get it. Well, they *might*. In the US, it's a free update via the myUVO site, but in Canada, unless it's changed, Kia does not have a solution. Apparently people have been told by Kia customer care people that they'll need to purchase the update from MnSoft as Canada does not have UVO! I've also heard people with cars that are advertised as supporting Android Auto (2017 Sportage I think), being told it's a paid update, when the Kia website makes no indication of this, in fact, it indicates if you have the correct spec / level / trim of car, then it's included. What really irks is they won a JD power award and pride themselves on saying they are all about the customer, when in this case it proves that is simply not the case. They could resolve the price of Nav updates by taking MnSoft to task over it, but they seem to care not one jot about it. I have considered reaching out to automotive media outlets to see if they have any interest in a story about this, as it seems customer are getting the rough end of the deal when it comes to navigation updates.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The car I'm looking at has Android Auto with Waze. I need to investigate if it gets live updates and if so for how long.

      Otherwise it supports mirroring your phone's screen on the car's display, which seems like the best option.

      • Uh, yeah, if there's anything Android is known for, it's gotta be the prompt, long-term updates and the attention to detail that the OEMs place above all else.

        /s
      • As long as it has internet it would have updates because the data is on googles servers the downside is if you have no internet you have no maps.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Cars have embedded SIM cards in them that the manufacturer pays for. I want to know how long they will keep it active.

    • My parents bought a new pickup with a fancy navigation system, but according to TFP, they have to subscribe to something to use it, so they don't use it. They use a road atlas when they aren't asking people to get off their lawn.

      Are they correct? Is it perception or does it truly require a subscription? I suppose at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Perception is reality.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Sloppy ( 14984 )

      I think it's great if the car has GPS, because it has exterior antenna(s) which are going to be way more reliable than my Galaxy S4's crappy GPS, which I have to hold up or near a window to keep a "lock." But it should make the GPS results available to other systems. Then a device driver in the phone can say "fuck my local equipment, use this GPS computer over here..." That'd be awesome to the max.

      (Or I could just get a new phone with a better antenna, but that just seems wrong somehow...)

      Anyway, car compu

    • For many cars, the backup camera and GPS are part of a single package, since they use the same display. So if you skip the GPS, you get no backup camera.

      Starting in 2018, backup cameras are mandatory in all new cars, so they will have to either unbundle the GPS, or include it as standard.

  • Your software is bad and you should feel bad. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:34PM (#53064573)

    Open source that stuff so we code something usable for our cars.

    Also, i shouldnt have to dig through on-screen menus to turn off the radio.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      What are you talking about? One of my favorite features of my touch-screen controlled radios is that you can get in the car, gently put your sleeping baby in the car seat, and then remember that when you last parked you were listening to the radio loudly. Now you're fucked because there's no way to turn the radio down before it turns on and blasts your neighborhood and wakes your sleeping child. The best part is there is about 10 seconds between when the radio turns on and the touch screen OR knobs (just lo

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by markus ( 2264 )

        I never listen to the radio, but our last Audi rental car would always turn the radio on when the car was started. The only way to disable this "feature" was to completely disable the entire system including the GPS.

        Guess what never got used during the entire three week trip?

        • That brings up the other big reason not to use in-car navigation. When you rent, navigation costs extra and it's something else you have to learn how to use. You're much better off using the phone you have with you anyway.

  • Where anyone with enough money to afford in car gps can buy a phone at half the cost and have it do more things, i'm surprised in car gps is even still an option.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tiberus ( 258517 )

      Built in NAV, can and should provide more and better features than another device

      Liked the GPS in my Chrysler Pacifica when we first purchased it. Just about my favorite feature was that it was located centrally for the driver and could easily be glanced at, through the steering wheel, while driving. It was easy to correlate the road with the displayed map. Sadly the $200 updates, lack of software updates, hokey method of address entry resulted in it's demise.

      Love to have a system in the car similar to w

    • It's an option for the same reason you don't carry around a single function phone as well as a separate gadget for GPS, a camera, MP3 player, a day planner, and a laptop for when you need to do something a bit more involved.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by clodney ( 778910 )

      I find I rarely use the navigation feature in my car (i.e. have it give me directions to something). But having the map with the traffic overlay is very handy. I don't need turn by turn navigation to get home from work, but being able to see the state of the freeways as I drive home is nice.

    • If I had a car like that and came to the (apparently common, here at least) conclusion that it sucked and my phone worked better, I'd be reminded of the money I wasted on the upgrades every time I drove anywhere.

      Get in the car. Look at your shame.

  • Yup (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PvtVoid ( 1252388 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:37PM (#53064615)

    Exactly. I keep my car for at least a decade, and information technology obsolesces much more quickly than that: Just give me a useful Bluetooth connection and let me use my phone for navigation and audio. In addition to continuously updated maps, a networked navigation app like Google Maps gives me real-time traffic, which I don't get with an offline nav system.

    • real-time traffic, which I don't get with an offline nav system

      Must be an american thing. We've been getting traffic reports via RDS over FM in Europe for many years. I find Google reacts better to slow buildup of general traffic, while the RDS system on my in car navigation reacts far better to accidents, breakdowns, or issues that get classified as something other than "slow traffic".

  • Too clunky (Score:3)

    by fructose ( 948996 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:37PM (#53064617) Homepage
    I can see why too. Using your phone is second nature, because you use it so often. But infotainment screens are built by third parties that have to follow different rules for safety, so they aren't as intuitive. And there's no real incentive to improve, as they aren't in the 'upgrade' market. For the most part, once you have the GPS unit in your car, you don't replace it. Phones get updated every two years, and the software is updated almost monthly (apps are at least). Why use something that is 'hard' to use, not updated, and doesn't work like you expect?

    • so they aren't as intuitive

      Sorry to disagree, but I recently drove a VW Toureg on loan from work. It's in car system shat all over Google Maps and Tomtom in terms of usability, UI design, and the way it presented information. Not only was it super easy to use (having never seen a VW in car navigation system before), but instructions were accurate on the really large and easy to read map in the centre console, and there was an additional indication showing where I needed to turn and how far away on my dash in the middle of the instrum

      • Glad to hear it's gotten better. Our 2008 Passat Wagon had a fantastic looking and operating system that gave immediate directions, names and distances on the display in front of the wheel, and maps in the center console, but was DVD based - meaning that updates came every few YEARS and COST $200!!! And yeah, unless you sprung for a 6-disc changer, the GPS DVD took up the CD player slot in the dash as well...

        • Yeah my Renault 2007 Clio had a CD based one, right until I ripped it out and replaced it with a DAB radio. I didn't mind the navigation system as basic and clunky as that was, but it used up the CD on a radio that had no AUX input so it had to go.

  • Simple reason.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wbr1 ( 2538558 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:38PM (#53064627)
    These systems are built quickly, poorly maintained and the engineers have little UI experience. Then they are sold at a huge premium in the higher trim options for the car. Something like Android auto is better. Just give a touch screen and api that we can pipe apps to. Then you can use the app you are familiar with and have regular updates or switch to a new one if that stops being suitable.

    Just about anyone who owns a car will own at least one smartphone, so it is wasteful in the extreme both in dev hours and materials to duplicate this functionality poorly. Take it out and give users the option to roll their own solution with Waze/Garmin/Whatever.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by NotAPK ( 4529127 )

      Right, but "Android Auto" only works with your phone. What if you want to lend your car to a family member or friend who does not have an equivalent Android phone? They're stuck. This is the biggest problem with all-in-one devices: they do not foster sharing or collaboration. With a standalone MP3 player, GPS navigation device, and "simple" mobile phone, I can share and or all of them and never be inconvenienced, and I'll know that my friend/father/sister will get to their destination without having to fiel

    • Depends. I've got a Mazda 3 and I think the system in it is very well designed and easy to use, with only a minor quirk for accepting an address in the nav that trips you up (no pun intended) the first couple of times until you understand that the red highlight on the QWE button will accept the address in front of you on the display when you press the selector to proceed - just an odd little UX improvement could smooth that out.

      Compare and contrast with the Acura system. My dad had an old Acura TL from 20

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Renault are now shipping Android Auto with Waze. I'm still trying to find details in terms of live connectivity and updates.

      Even so, ten years down the line... What they really need to do is make the head unit easy to upgrade.

    • There are pros and cons for built-in vs. phone navigation. I personally always use the built-in navigation because
      -- The screen is bigger and easier to read.
      -- Directions are always at the right volume and easier to understand.
      -- The system works when network connectivity drops out.
      -- The system never needs to be charged or plugged in.
      -- The manual controls are much safer to use when driving compared to a touchscreen.
      -- The screen is in a natural position relative to the driver and never gets knocked over.

    • These systems are built quickly, poorly maintained and the engineers have little UI experience.

      Disagree. Firstly some of these vendors license Tomtom or Garmin so the interface should be welcome and familiar. Secondly I have yet to see a phone as responsive as an in car system to touch, even maps on iPhone (though a dedicated Tomtom matches it). Thirdly integration and UI design can be done right, easily, intuitively, and in a way that the system is safer to use (VW put the instruction in the middle of the instrument cluster and BIG, making it about less unsafe than checking your speed).

      Now there is

    • "These systems are built quickly, poorly maintained and the engineers have little UI experience. Then they are sold at a huge premium in the higher trim options for the car. "

      Automotive engineers seem to suck at electronics noticeably more than electronics engineers suck at automotive systems. Or, maybe they are hobbled by what the bean counters will let them implement.

  • Built In Doesn't Warn You About Police (Score:3)

    by IonOtter ( 629215 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:40PM (#53064641) Homepage

    The built-in apps on the car don't always give you updates on traffic, and they most certainly don't give you updates on the locations of police.

    Waze does. [waze.com]

    There are long threads in vehicle forums, dedicated to hacking the OS of the console, so people can add their *own* apps and navigation systems.

    Also, there's something very creepy about driving along, and hearing "Caution! Toll booth ahead!" coming out of your speakers, when you aren't using navigation at all.

    Which is just one of the many reasons why forum modders work so hard to dump the stock OS.

    • Of course they do. You just need to pay extra to get Sirius' traffic advisory subscription. In car navigation/infotainment sucks first and foremost because there are a couple well entrenched companies providing all the hardware and especially the services. These companies do not have the same kinds of pressure to innovate and compete as in the mobile space. Google and Apple are trying to change that, but as anyone paying attention can see Android Auto and Apple Carplay have been at it for several years

    • The built-in apps on the car don't always give you updates on traffic, and they most certainly don't give you updates on the locations of police.

      The only time I was in a vehicle with built in navigation it was a rental and the system would lock the GPS system while it was in drive - and I was the passenger, not the driver, trying to punch stuff in. Truly annoying, and indeed, caused me to just use my phone.

  • to learn how to run the stupid thing but I can't find them on the map and instead usually end up somehow accidentally subscribing for another 6 months of Sirius / XM.

  • ... many new card owners use their phones ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by chuckugly ( 2030942 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:42PM (#53064667)
    "According to a new survey, many new card owners use their phones for directions" - I know when I'm driving my card .... WTF /.?

  • Technically, I use in car navigation but only through Android Auto. The native navigation works reasonably well and does have real-time traffic as long as I'm willing to pay for the built-in data link. However, the interface for its use is woefully inadequate and thus dangerous to use unless I'm at a full stop. As a Systems Engineer, I'm of course technically savvy but I am getting a little older and I have to wear glasses now. This leads me to what might be an overabundance of caution regarding fiddling wi

  • Fem Nav (Score:3)

    by dohzer ( 867770 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @03:56PM (#53064793)

    My girlfriend also has a built in navigation system, but it's absolutely rubbish so she uses her smart phone to find her way around.

  • I think a major issue is that it's easy and common to have contacts in your phone with addresses. People send you contacts that are fully populated with info, you can search in Maps and 'create new contact' from a result and it includes the address, etc. And you have it with you all the time so you can easily update it at your convenience. As opposed to a GPS built into a car, where you have to sit there in the car and punch the info in on the screen. You can only update it when you're sitting in the car an

  • I fall into this group, and while the reason definitely involves "frustration", it has nothing to do with stupidity or difficulty learning the new system. Instead, I use my tablet for navigation in my car for one very, very trivial reason:

    It doesn't lock me out of using it while moving!

  • In-car systems such as this are a hopeless battle. There is absurd vendor lock-in because there are a whole of 2-3 companies who have built a technology base big enough to be able to offer a system that can be custom assembled for a particular year and model of car. This will then be deployed in about 100,000 cars at best and will never ever be updated or serviced after about 6 months unless there is a vehicle safety issue.

    I'm not sure what the exact solution is, but in one way or another there needs to be

  • Been using GPS for 5+ Years/Never go without (Score:5, Informative)

    by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @04:11PM (#53064905) Homepage

    Maybe I've been lucky with GPSes (GPI?) in cars but I find them to be really invaluable. Just for the record, I'm talking about a Toyota Prius Navigation (touch screen) and the Audi MMI Navigation Plus (input wheel that you can draw characters on). Both have voice input.

    Interesting seeing the comments about update prices. For Toyota, I was quoted $3k CAN but the dealer could find it on a thumb drive and then it was free. Audi updates are free as part of regular maintenance. The Toyota maps, even though they were apparently updated to the current date never had a number of streets that were between five and ten years old. The Audi maps have streets that haven't been finished yet.

    TFA discusses Android Auto and Apple CarPlay and neither work in the Prius. Android Auto is not available on the Audi and CarPlay sucks. I would love to plan out my route at home and then download the directions into the car.

    Regardless, I find that when I'm on the road (a lot right now as I'm doing a startup), the GPS in the car is invaluable and I don't have to look down at my phone (which is a big fine/points here in Ontario) and I would recommend it for everybody.

    • As I was writing the root post, I realized that I'm in something of the minority in terms of technical skills.

      I suspect that people would use the GPS in their cars if they were more comfortable with using the electronics in the car including being able to connect the car to their phones via Bluetooth. Most non-/.ers generally get the dealership to do it when they take delivery and if there's a problem later or they change their phones, they do without. How many people do you see with earbuds in while driv

  • I use my Nav without directions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ArtemaOne ( 1300025 ) on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @04:14PM (#53064921)
    For directions I'm about half and half, phone and Nav. But I use my Nav system constantly to help me figure out better routes without ever using directions. It's just an overhead view that I can zoom in and out. Most of the time I don't need actual directions since I can just see where I am on a map that tracks my location. I've found so many nice routes simply from that God's eye capability.
  • I wonder how much this is to do with most people not knowing or just not doing updates to their in car Nav Systems, I usually hunt down the latest map packs ISO each year and any firmware updates and load them in. Personally I actually much prefer the in car Nav, Directions show up in front of me and it tends be more reliable than my Phone. Phone you tend to need to rely more on Voice which as my Wife found out was a nightmare recently after some road changes. Seeing a line drawing in front of me is much be

  • I really like OnStar, the directions are good, updates are not my issue and to boot I don't even need to know where I am to start with. Needless to say my innate sense of direction is poor. I am not sure what is wrong with me but I have always had a very poor sense of direction. I get involved in something and the next thing I know I am lost, again.

  • Map (Score:2)

    by hhawk ( 26580 )

    As other have said it's the map update I rather not spend..

    My built-in GPS works far more reliably... As the care ages, of course the UI ages as well...

    Also I use phone GPS for real time traffic..

  • The firm surveyed owners of new vehicles

    that's maybe why they don't use the navigation system, they didn't have time, yet, to figure out how that works.

  • I often go up into the mountains where cell phones don't work well or at all but GPS works just fine. Waze is the killer GPS app but it's no good if you don't have a signal.

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