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Uber Drivers Demand Higher Pay in Nationwide Protest (cnet.com) 306
Uber drivers will join forces with fast food, home care and airport workers in a nationwide protest on Tuesday. Their demand: higher pay. From a report on CNET: Calling it the "Day of Disruption," drivers for the ride-hailing company in two dozen cities, including Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco, will march at airports and in shopping areas carrying signs that read, "Your Uber Driver is Arriving Striking." The protest underscores the dilemma Uber faces as it balances the needs of its drivers with its business. Valued at $68 billion, Uber is the highest-valued venture-backed company worldwide. But as it has cut the cost of rides to compete with traditional taxi services, Uber reportedly has experienced trouble turning a profit. Unlike many other workers involved in Tuesday's protests, Uber drivers are not members of a union. In fact, Uber doesn't even classify its drivers as employees. Instead the company considers drivers independent contractors. This classification means the company isn't responsible for many costs, including health insurance, paid sick days, gas, car maintenance and much more. However, Uber still sets drivers' rates and the commission it pays itself, which ranges between 20 percent and 30 percent. "I'd like a fair day's pay for my hard work," Adam Shahim, a 40-year-old driver from Pittsburgh, California, said in a statement. "So I'm joining with the fast-food, airport, home care, child care and higher education workers who are leading the way and showing the country how to build an economy that works for everyone, not just the few at the top."
Union power! (Score:5, Insightful)
Without our brain and muscle not a single wheel will turn!
Forward to a workers government! Forge a revolutionary workers party!
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Without our brain and muscle not a single wheel will turn!
Really? Outside of government (public sector) union membership has dwindled to less than 7% [cnsnews.com] of the workforce. Even counting public sector it's less than 12%.
Re:Union power! (Score:5, Insightful)
Precisely! While Bernie had positions consistent w/ the unions and the rank & file workers, be it issues like trade, even on immigration, he was on the same page as them: opposed to allowing more immigration unless and until US employment was solved. Whereas the DNC was busy backing Hilary on the theory that she was more electable, and in the process, exposing themselves as a party led by corrupt officials.
In fact, Trump is doing a better job here, and as a result, the GOP is likely to lose its attractiveness to Wall Street to K street lobbyists. I mean, what's the point in greasing your local GOP politician if Trump is busy filling up the jobs w/ generals and CEOs?
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You sure about that? ;)
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I mean, some jobs are meant as entry jobs, some as just part time or side jobs for extra money.
I mean, what's next? Do we unionize and demand $15/hr for the neighborhood kids to mow or rake your fucking yard? $15-$20 hour for neighborhood kids to babysit for you?
I mean seriously, not every job should be meant to earn a living soley from that activity.
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No jobs should, except government contractors. Right?
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If you're doing a job for 8 hours a day, 40+ hours a week, you should be able to live on the proceeds. This "entry job" bullshit is merely a rationalization for paying people less. It's similar to "You should do my web|coding|construction project for free, because you'll get good exposure|experience|karma"
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No, this was common sense thinking for years and only recently (last maybe 5-10 years) are people starting to say EVERY job out there should be a living wage job. No, this is a recent trend...trying to make excuses for people that didn't value an education the first time it was offered to them, and didn't see fit to try to work hard and get a "real job".
I grew up working starting jobs. I worked part time from the age of 16 throu
Hey, just drive Lyft!!! (Score:4, Informative)
There are choices, y'know! And Lyft gives a higher priority to drivers, so if you all just delete that Uber Partner app and sign up on Lyft, you'll be a lot better off
Re:Hey, just drive Lyft!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Uber and Air B&B really had turned into something different than their initial business.
These were for people who wanted to do some Parttime work. Rent out their home when they are away. Drive additional people when commuting to work. The the Recession hit, and this became more of a source of income, vs just getting extra spending changes. It didn't help with these companies changing their buisness structure to compete against Hotels and Taxis.
None of these are in their final form (Score:2)
e.g. You bid to pay $12 for a ride from your house in the north suburbs to a restaurant downtown. Historically pricing for this route has been about $12, so you figure that should get you an offer soon.. But unbeknownst to you, a ballgame i
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Uber, Lyft have W2 like control with 1099 pay (Score:2)
AirBnB is just shout term renting / hotels without the taxes / safety rules they just take a cut / fees with limited control.
eBay just takes fees / a cut with limited control.
They have listings like an Flea Market / on line store front. They also have auctions where they just run the auction part and take fees for doing that.
Uber, Lyft Set a lot of rules, set the prices, can enforce you must take X number / % of rides per X time on the clock, can force long / shout trips.
On ebay an seller can say local pi
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Airbnb was founded the same year as the Great Recession, Uber the following year. Though they both paint themselves as "part time supplements", they've been about ad
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If you want to be a taxi driver (Score:3, Insightful)
become a taxi driver. Uber is for ride-sharing. Not full-time taxi service.
Re:If you want to be a taxi driver (Score:5, Funny)
become a taxi driver.
Exactly. I don't see what is stopping these drivers from just buying a $500,000 taxi medallion.
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I don't know about the other city's listed but Illinois doesn't have that requirement it's the city of Chicago that has it's own outrageously expensive regulations on top of the states minimum requirements.
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All eyes are on Trump, every news station waits with baited breath for goose stepping storm troopers to start rounding up the poor little illegals, every safe space is filled with sobbing snowflakes who can't stand the thought of not getting their way, hippies are out in force destroying property trying to stop pipelines that they otherwise would never have known existed, the blogosphere is on fire about no
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become a taxi driver.
Exactly. I don't see what is stopping these drivers from just buying a $500,000 taxi medallion.
Actually, it was often easier for a driver to get $500,000 medallion than $100 TV on credit. As long as the number o f medallions was limited so no new ones were issued, lending against them was a no brainer. Drivers would make payments to avoid losing it since you could repossess it by simply prying it off the car; as an appreciating asset it was worth more than when you first sold it. It is the driver's best interest not to get behind since if he or she did they lost all the appreciation and the ability
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Except services like Uber have crashed the value of taxi medallions. A NYC taxi medallion used for to go over a $1 million a few years ago. Now you can pick one up for $300,000. It's only going to keep going down, nobody is going to back a loan to buy one.
What part of Uber (Score:2)
well they are independent contractors. (Score:2)
Re:well they are independent contractors. (Score:4, Informative)
If they could do that they wouldn't be out protesting, now would they.
Re:well they are independent contractors. (Score:4, Informative)
They can it's called find another client. Uber with no drivers dies.
Re:well they are independent contractors. (Score:4, Insightful)
Uber is already moving to driverless cars, and that was always the plan. Not only is that the plan, the long term prognosis for Taxi and Uber like drivers is dim. Eventually, driverless cars will be the norm and we'll see drivers go the way of the buggy whip.
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"Bring out the Gimp"
"Say, didn't you drive me to the LAX a couple of years ago?"
[shutters]
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I didn't think the CD would ever become popular because of how poorly they were designed and prone to failure, they became popular anyway and people bitched about scratched discs purchasing the white album multiple times. If a driverless car hits the market in the next few years it's going to be the same, poorly designed and prone to failure which in this case holds some serious real world problems.
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Uber is already moving to driverless cars, and that was always the plan. Not only is that the plan, the long term prognosis for Taxi and Uber like drivers is dim. Eventually, driverless cars will be the norm and we'll see drivers go the way of the buggy whip.
Who was seriously expecting Uber or Lyft to be their life's career?
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Since you opened up this topic, Uber drivers as 'meat robots' is exactly what minimum-wage workers are, generally.
Since Uber drivers need only have the minimal skills necessary to successfully navigate passage from one place to another, and make the investment in vehicle, fuel, licensing, and insurance, their contribution, while apparently substantial, is in fact a plentiful commodity. Lots of drivers, lots of cars, lots of potential Uber contractors.
Uber also competes, and does the marketing, booking, repu
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they should at least get the minimum-wage after vehicle expenses so uber will need to pay for insurance, maybe CLD costs, and full IRS mileage rate + the state min wage for all time on clock even when they are ready and waiting for an ride.
Re: well they are independent contractors. (Score:2)
You've treated them like employees. Change the rules.
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Not allowed to deviate from GPS?? so the uber auto drive car will just drive
Into a sand pile? http://www.news.com.au/lifesty... [news.com.au]
drive down boat launch into lake https://youtu.be/a2QIH2uz3p8 [youtu.be]
drive into Pacific Ocean https://youtu.be/h89RT_dc-v0 [youtu.be] http://www.redlandcitybulletin... [redlandcit...tin.com.au]
drivers off cliff https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
follows directions onto railroad tracks http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... [telegraph.co.uk]
follows GPS down flight of steps http://croatiantimes.com/?id=5... [croatiantimes.com]
directed to wrong part of Italy http://www.te [telegraph.co.uk]
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So... all-day surge pricing (Score:5, Interesting)
So... this means all-day surge pricing for the Uber drivers who don't strike?
If you don't like what they pay, don't drive (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't complicated. If you don't like the pay, don't work for them.
Re:If you don't like what they pay, don't drive (Score:4, Insightful)
If you don't like the system, then work to change it, which is what they're doing.
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It's not a sustainable profession though; taxi drivers traditionally were career jobs for many in past decades. My friend's wife's dad is a taxi driver (in south america) and owns his own house, has raised a family of three and lives comfortably and is near retirement.
Now we're on the cusp of replacing taxi drivers with robots. While there are some that lean on Uber as a full time job, it's never been sold as a full time job, and second, it's been in the news for years now that the plan is to replac
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It's not a sustainable profession though; taxi drivers traditionally were career jobs for many in past decades.
"Slave owner" used to be a sustainable profession and now it's not.
"Cooper" used to be a sustainable profession and now most folks haven't even seen an actual wooden barrel.
And the same for "fletcher", "skinner", "tanner", "pyramid builder", "okra picker", "computer" (yes, by hand), "telegraph operator" etc.
Most of these are still being done, but in a different way. You can still get your okra picked-- but it's no longer a share cropper that does it. You can still buy arrows, but it's not a guy in a hut
Re:If you don't like what they pay, don't drive (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't like the pay, don't work for them.
Isn't that what a strike is?
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Trouble turning a profit? (Score:5, Insightful)
How can Uber have trouble turning a profit? What expenses do they have? Are they literally wiping their asses with money, or something? I can't imagine how maintaining a few little apps would cost billions of dollars a year.
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Just what I was thinking. Why in the hell should they get a 20-30% cut of a fare for putting a customer and contractor together when that is all handled by an app?
They have hosting, dev, and support costs, and presumably some advertising or something... but really, now that Uber is a thing it could be run by a handful of people regardless of scale.
Unless they're going to get serious about driver background checks, vehicle safety checks, bad client tracking, etc... like regular taxis (are supposed to) do, t
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How can Uber have trouble turning a profit? What expenses do they have? Are they literally wiping their asses with money, or something? I can't imagine how maintaining a few little apps would cost billions of dollars a year.
Here is my thought to answer this question... They reinvest into their business by expanding as much as they can for now. If they can dominate the market all over the world, then they will be able to make a lot of money. I would say it is a smart move in this kind of global business (even though I don't like them).
Currently, it is their preparation time in attempt to expand to every single acre in the world. To do so, they need a lot of money to start up the business in new locations. Thus, they can't turn
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$1 million driver insurance? Granted, it's lower cost: Uber's driver insurance kicks in after any existing liability insurance, and pays the difference; that shields the insurer from a significant cost share, even accounting for many insurers not paying for liability in a claim under Uber driving (most insurers actually will, although they've given statements that this might not exactly fit into your policy).
Legal fees, development, security audits (PCI-DSS, SAS70, SOX), and the like all add up. A lot o
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How can Uber have trouble turning a profit? What expenses do they have?
Lobbyists don't come cheap.
Same way Jedi lost money (Score:2)
So, just... don't? (Score:5, Insightful)
These ride sharing services were set up to allow people to casually earn a little extra money. They do this by bypassing the cruft that's accumulated around traditional taxi services. So immediately, government, workers, and to some extent even the public wants to re-load all the baggage - destroying what ride-sharing was intended to be. It's not the 30's, in a company town - if they don't like the wages, there are other agencies and other industries.
Next, everyone strikes to have an above-average income.
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Next, everyone strikes to have an above-average income.
If you do that, then the politician who figures out how to re-define 'average' will win. We can all be above average! And we don't think.
Specious (Score:2)
I find the argument that Uber drivers should be considered employees because "Uber still sets drivers' rates and the commission it pays itself, which ranges between 20 percent and 30 percent" to be specious.
If someone says how much they are going to pay for a job in advance of the job, that does not mean that anyone who takes that job is suddenly more likely to be considered an employee simply because the person who will pay them set that amount. Presumably, an independent contractor who finds the amoun
Really? (Score:2)
" "I'd like a fair day's pay for my hard work," Adam Shahim, a 40-year-old driver from Pittsburgh, California, said in a statement."
Then get a real job for a real company rather than an Internet-Ride-Share-gone-corporate hobby (you aren't an Uber "employee", there's part of your problem right there).
sigh... (Score:3)
I'd just call a taxi but I can't do that anymore, because Uber without all the same regulations applied to them drove all my local cab options out of business. Now I'm back to a market with only one option who is on the brink of holding the customer hostage for greater pay. Isn't it nice how no matter what happens the end user suffers...
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There are always scabs aka strikebreakers, and thankfully they will be really easy to find with the Uber app with no actual change in behavior from the customer.
The price may go up due to low supply and same as normal demand, but I'd be surprised if service is unavailable.
Also, it's "Day of Disruption" so if you can make it through one day without a cab, you will be fine.
Pittsburg, not Pittsburgh (Score:2)
Latest developments to the rescue? (Score:2)
Here's a few:
. Arcade.city [ https://arcade.city/ [arcade.city] ] - started by p1553d off Uber drivers
. Cell 411 [ https://getcell411.com/ [getcell411.com] ] - includes ride-share feature
. ReachNow [ http://www.bmwcarsharing.com/ [bmwcarsharing.com] ] - pay-per-minute car rental
Valuation games. (Score:3)
"Valued at $68 billion, Uber is the highest-valued venture-backed company worldwide. But as it has cut the cost of rides to compete with traditional taxi services, Uber reportedly has experienced trouble turning a profit..."
Funny thing about profit; it's kind of necessary for success and survival.
Given that identified struggle, I would say this is a $68 billion bullshit valuation.
Prices are important (Score:2)
In a system in which the knowledge of the relevant facts is dispersed among many people, prices act to efficiently coordinate the separate actions of different people.
Prices are important information in the economic calculus.
If a government sets price floors or ceilings, it damages the price system, and leads to shortages or gluts.
If you think poor people need money, then redistribute money to them via taxes. But don't break the price system, because when you do, you reduce the size of the entire economy t
Appeal to non-authorities (Score:3)
joining with the fast-food, airport, home care, child care and higher education workers who are leading the way and showing the country how to build an economy
Because everybody knows that Uber drivers, fast-food, airport, home care, child care, and higher education workers are the best experts to look to for economic knowledge.
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I'm of the opinion that anyone doing full-time work deserves a wage to live on. Meager living fine, but enough for a roof over one's head and food in one's mouth.
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Depends on the job. If it's something anyone with a pulse can do, then there's no real skill or reason for great pay.
Supply and demand exists in the employment market too....
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Depends on the job. If it's something anyone with a pulse can do, then there's no real skill or reason for great pay.
There is a reason: basic respect for the person doing the job. Asking someone to work two full-time jobs just to be able to split the rent on a single apartment and still need food stamps is dehumanizing.
It would be different if low wages weren't used to create additional profit at the top, but the average McDonalds worker could get twice the pay per hour, yet still the corporation and various franchise owners would only see a dip in profits. This is the important part: their bottom lines would still be p
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I disagree.
After being born, the world does not owe you a living. If you grow up and do not take value of an education, and learn during your early years when you have all the time in the world to your education as a child/young adult....then well, you're going to have it tough as an adult.
If you do not
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I disagree.
After being born, the world does not owe you a living.
I disagree. As a child, the world owes you a living. The basic definition of adulthood is that "this stops being true". We seem to have a lot of tall children these days.
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If its at the expense of dehumanizing a real tangible person and not some legal manifestation, yes, your completely allowed to tell me how successful Im allowed to be
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Bull.
If you don't like the wages an employer is offering, sorry, but go find a new job. It's that simple.
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In theory, the job doesn't pay enough to offset your time.
In reality, people without jobs are desperate. When welfare runs out, they face homelessness, hunger, and death. Half enough can dull the pain and give them time to look for twice more again, at the very least.
This is partly why people on unemployment turn up jobs early in the cycle, and then will take lower-paying jobs later. Unemployment paid me $10.25/hr full-time wages, and Fedex's $10.55/hr counter-offer ... zero hours working, or forty h
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And where and who is that "basic income/Universal Social Security" that come in whether you work or not going to come from? Hint, no one is going to support it, and you what happens if suddenly everyone does get it? Prices jump as businesses see that people have more money to spend.
You have to change basic human nature before you can fix the system.
Sorry, but no one is going to pay for you, you have to grow up and take responsibility for yourself instead of expecting others to pay your way.
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I'm of the opinion that anyone doing full-time work deserves a wage to live on.
Most Uber drivers are not full-time workers.
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How many full-time Uber drivers are there?
Imagine, if you will, driving for 8 hours a day. Average speed is truly no better than 25 MPH, probably 10MPH. So miles per workday could be 80-200.
Assume 25MPG, your fuel cost (around here you can buy gas for $1.899 if you are paying attention) is $6-$15.
Excellent. Let's be generous, use NYC Uber rates of $3 plus $0.40 per minute plus $2.15 per mile. Assume generously that your rides are 4 miles long, taking 20 minutes, and you get average fares of $3+$9.60+$8.60=$
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You forgot to mention that Uber pays bonuses depending on the number of trips per week you complete. Ultimately it doesn't seem like a good deal for the drivers.
should be paid to wait for a ride! firemen are pay (Score:2)
should be paid to wait for a ride! firemen are payed to wait for the call. People in stores are payed to be there waiting for a customer
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1. Gap wealth continues to increase between the top and bottom.
2. Wages, especially minimum wage, have not kept up with inflation.
3. Skilled labor jobs have decreased and the economy has switched to a service-based economy, partly so those at the top can make more money.
4. Minimum wage should be tied to living expenses of the region. I can absolutely agree that a burger flipper in San Francisco should make as much as a skilled laborer in C
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It's complicated. You'll get some conservative-side arguments about pay raises being the devil in disguise and causing inflation or destroying our moral fiber; and you'll get liberal-side arguments about pay raises being fair and somehow creating jobs. It's neither.
Wages are paid from revenue, which is paid of the income of consumers. In any given time frame, there's a fixed amount of income: the Fed increases this by issuing cash, adjusting treasury interest rates, and changing the fractional reserve
what about cutting VP / CEO pay? (Score:2)
what about cutting VP / CEO pay?
Maybe if they only made 10M /year vs 20M /year they can hire more people / pay then more.
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CEOs and VPs have total compensation including stock options and such, which devalue the secondary security market by dilution. The actual cash portion--the part paid by company revenues (thus payable to any employee)--is usually around a quarter to a third.
In total, CEOs gain cash salary and bonuses (from revenue; pay full income tax); dividends (from revenue; pay full income tax, even if reinvested); stock options (new issue stock, cost effectively siphoned from any 401(k)s and IRAs and such holding th
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Expect the rise across the board isn't uniform. So people in the middle of the income bracket will take a pay cut as the price of everything increases, but the percentage of their pay increases in smaller than the low end.
Re:Everyone's demanding higher pay (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that's rather the point - no one is proposing raising wages across the board - they're proposing raising wages at the bottom, but not the top.
AC is right - a burger flipper doesn't deserve as much as a skilled electrician, but what they do deserve is enough to live on (as anyone working full time does). The disparity between top and bottom has got so large that it's not possible to live at the bottom any more. That needs to be fixed.
Re:Everyone's demanding higher pay (Score:4, Insightful)
AC is right - a burger flipper doesn't deserve as much as a skilled electrician, but what they do deserve is enough to live on (as anyone working full time does)
What does deserving have to do with anything?
I could "work full time" counting blades of grass in the park. I imagine it's time-consuming work, with a lot of job-specific challenges.
What, no one wants me to do that? No one wants to pay me for it? But I deserve enough to live on for working full time!
"Deserving" is irrelevant. Your work gets you what someone else is willing to pay for it.
Burger flipping is at the point in the supply-demand curve that it's not worth what an adult needs to live on.
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...a burger flipper doesn't deserve as much as a skilled electrician, but what they do deserve is enough to live on (as anyone working full time does).
No, they deserve only what their work is worth. Nothing more. Ever.
If they don't think that's right, they can go find another job. If they can't go find another job, then their work probably isn't worth as much as they thought.
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" deserve is enough to live on (as anyone working full time does)"
Leaving out the "deserve" concept, I'll point out that anyone working full time even at the current federal minimum wage makes enough to live on, if the criteria for "makes enough to live on" is the poverty line. They can't support a spouse and/or raise a family at that level, but that's a different problem.
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That's why in most of the world with minimum wages, the minimum wage is lower for people who aren't old enough to leave school yet.
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When I was 14 working a restaurant, I did not make enough to live off of, and that was fine. I was able to make some money and learn responsibility, the employer was able to hire more help. Not every job should have to be a full time, living wage job.
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, there is often a preposterous skill floor for skilled entry-level jobs. They want two years experience for exactly the level of job designed to provide that level of experience. Without being the boss's kid, it is difficult for people to transition from solid general work history, like said burger flipping, to an entry-level skilled position.
It is especially difficult for people who are not natural salesmen or negotiators.
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Odd nothing, it's corporate Mission Statement 1 to keep the populace in line...
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The real minimum wage isn't 0. It's subsistance. A human, on their own, in the absolute worst case is capable of subsisting. That establishes a lower bound on the value of someone's time.
The problem at the moment, is that many low paid jobs actually drop below that minimum that's necessary to actually live.
The idea that you don't think that people are entitled to enough resources to live is pretty mind boggling to me.
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Actually, my view is that people are only entitled to opportunity, which is what Statists and Socialists tend to limit. The worst case scenario is subsistence living, as that is the most demeaning of all options. Man's greatest value is his work. A man without meaningful work is a tragedy.
The idea that you think people don't have to strive to better themselves to live is the real mind boggling. Race to the bottom mentality right there.
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That establishes a lower bound on the value of someone's time.
So what about all the tasks that are worth less than that lower bound? Either they get automated or done on someone's off hours or not get done because there is no positive value to them. Then there is a subset of our population whose hourly worth is less than your lower bound. Think retired folks, high school students, and mentally challenged folks. These folks are kept out of the market completely.
Are you really saying stuff like paperboys, dog walking, burger flipping, babysitting, door man, etc shou
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Minimum wage does create unemployment. It's largely a device to balance employment against the viability of employment in a market where individuals don't have sufficient negotiating power to obtain a sustainable wage. People are taken in by the ideal that paying someone just materializes dollars out of thin air, and divorce labor from cost; it doesn't work that way, but nor does paying laborers so little that our entire society absorbs the cost of its workforce dying off and being replaced (children are
So can customers of contractors (Uber), and employ (Score:2)
Contractors decide who much they are willing to work for, and people paying contractors decide how much they are willing to pay.
I recently placed an ad on Craigslist looking for a HVAC tech to install an air conditioner for me. I got several calls giving different estimates these were contractors telling me their rates. One said $1200, another said $450, two said $600.
I quickly determined I could get the job done well for $600, so I set my offered rate at $600. The contractors set their (asking) price, I s