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Transportation The Internet

Audi Cars Now Talk To Stop Lights In Vegas (ieee.org) 105

Posted by msmash from the shape-of-things-to-come dept.
Audi says its cars can now tell drivers how many seconds remain until the traffic light turns green. It's the first commercial offering of vehicle-to-infrastructure communication in the United States, it adds. From a report, submitted by an anonymous reader: Of course, nobody would pay much extra for an electronic gadget that just lowered your stoplight waiting anxiety. But this feature is just testing the waters; bigger applications are in view. The cars -- recently manufactured Audi A4 and Q7 models signed onto Audi's prime connection service -- communicate with the Las Vegas traffic management system via 4G LTE, the standard mobile phones use. The countdown appears on the dashboard or heads-up display, then shuts off a few seconds before the light changes (presumably to keep drivers from getting mesmerized). Audi manages the transfer of data with the help of its partner, Traffic Technology Services (TTS), of Beaverton, Ore. The plan is to eventually give drivers the information they need to make fairly ambitious predictions, like choosing the right speed to go sailiing through several green lights in a row. Or the system might bypass the driver and go straight to the engine's "start-stop" system, shutting it down for a long count, then starting it up again seconds before getting a green light.
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Audi Cars Now Talk To Stop Lights In Vegas More

Audi Cars Now Talk To Stop Lights In Vegas

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  • So the next botnet will be Audi cars (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 08, 2016 @03:52PM (#53448341)

    (holds breath)

    • Re:So the next botnet will be Audi cars (Score:4, Interesting)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @05:25PM (#53448965) Homepage Journal
      My biggest concern is...

      How do you turn this car-to-anything-external comunication the fuck OFF?!?!?

      Geez, I mean, I don't want this crap on my car, to aid in tracking etc.

      Hell, its difficult enough to disable OnStar or any other myriad of car to base communications as it is....this sounds like even more potentially intrusive software/hardware reporting to authorities on the road.

      Hell...I guess I am going to just stick to in the future...70's muscle cars, and other older 'fun' cars to ride in, without all this crap.

      Hell, I'd pay EXTRA on a new car to get it without all this external to car communication.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I'm on the market for a new SUV and one of the features that I demand is that it does not have a cellular modem. The 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee has one in the head unit. You can disconnect the cellular antenna but it will nag you about it every time you start it. You can buy a dummy antenna, which will stop the nags, but it will still manage to connect to the cell towers at a slower speed.

        The 2017 Ford Edge does not have a cellular antenna. Yet. It's coming though. Unfortunately, people won't see a problem wi

      • v2 will have an off switch, after someone reverse-engineers the protocol, builds an Arduino box that supports the protocol, and then puts it on a street corner, and randomly decides when to tell the car the light is green.

        You know there will be drivers that mindlessly punch the gas when the counter goes to zero.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by b0bby ( 201198 )

          My take from the summary is that the car is talking over 4G to the company controlling the lights, and getting the counts from them. So you'd need to worry about some kid hacking the company and messing with all connected cars, not some kid on a corner messing with one.

      • You know that if any appreciable number of people (like, 1% of the population should be enough) take your strategy, they're going to ban those cars from the road? It will probably take the path of forcing anyone who has a non-networked vehicle to get a "vintage" registration that limits the annual mileage.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )
      Police Lieutenant: Captain, we think every Audi in the city has been taken over by a virus.
      Police Captain: Are you certain.
      Police Lieutenant: Well they're ignoring all traffic lights, driving less than an inch off the car in front of them, constantly on the wrong side of the road, beeping aggressively and going dangerous speeds down country lanes.
      Police Captain: Yes... But how do you know know they've been taken over by a virus.
      Police Lieutenant: They're offering me a good deal on a new Toyota.

  • /. expired ssl cert (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sims 2 ( 994794 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @03:54PM (#53448359)

    Anyone else notice /. was using an expired ssl certificate earlier today?

  • Countdown traffic lights (Score:5, Funny)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:00PM (#53448393)

    Meanwhile, in the rest of the world they are aware of countdown traffic lights [dailymail.co.uk], which provide a much simpler solution to this problem.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      And some have suggested that though the countdown pedestrian lights have reduced pedestrian incidents, there have been significant negative consequences for automobile incidents. This would seem to intensity this problem.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      If you put counters on ALL lights, green, red, yellow, crosswalks, and have properly timed lights, it's like clockwork.

      Saw this in Chong Qing when I was there years back.

      Hell, if you do that and clearly mark the stop lines, you can even throw in red-light cameras and HUGE fines as long as there's no tricks (hidden stop lines, improperly timed lights).

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:00PM (#53448399)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Maybe Audi can make a countdown app to remind people to look up at the countdown on their dashboard/HUD?

  • affordable hybrid (Score:4, Informative)

    by lorinc ( 2470890 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:01PM (#53448405) Homepage Journal

    Dear car makers,

    Instead of pushing useless gadget that nobody cares about, what about trying to develop affordable hybrid and electric vehicles? Right now, buying a hybrid mid-range car costs as much as buying a luxury car, which nobody sane would ever do. So please, focus on affordable green cars instead of bullshit toys.

    Sincerely,
    A Parisian stuck in the winter smog.

    • Go buy a Renault Zoé instead.

      - it's done by one of your French companies.
      - the newer Zoe platform features a 44kWh battery that should be okay for 200+ km between charges (rated for 125km/h).
      (the previous one had a 22kWh battery, rated for 125 km. I still manage to get ~100 km out of the Zoé of the local Car Sharing copmany even when I'm driving like an idiot).
      - you can either buy just the car and rent the battery (and the car comes rather cheap between 15'000 and 25'000+ EUR depending on the

      • - an electric motor is dead simple and much cheaper than the mechanical complexity of an ICE (it's just a glorified spool of wire, attached to a fixed ratio gear. That's why Tesla can afford to slap a 2nd one on their 4-wheel drive vehicle (the xx"D" series), and that's why most european high speed train can afford electric motors on each of their wagon.)

        Interestingly, not on TGVs which are among the most common high speed trains in Europe (470 trains). These trains have power cars at both ends.

        • Interestingly, not on TGVs which are among the most common high speed trains in Europe (470 trains). These trains have power cars at both ends.

          On the other hand, German ICE (InterCity Express) [wikipedia.org] and Swiss ICN (InterCity Neigezug [wikipedia.org]) both use the "no power cars / each wagon with an electric motor [wikipedia.org]" configuration (though not on 1st class wagons in the swiss case to diminish noise).
          - This gives them tremendous power enabling them to climb steeper slopes than normal powercars (which is useful in hilly pre-Alpine regions)
          - This gives them very efficient regenerative braking (In switzerland, two train coming down from the Lötschberg tunnel can entirely p

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eth1 ( 94901 )

      Also, stop designing it to require an expensive subscription service instead of talking directly to the infrastructure around the car.

  • so the traffic light will cater to whats best for the person in the $100k luxury car but the kid in the beater has to be at a disadvantage on teh public right of way? seems like an equal access issue to me. Whats next? priority access to the side walk for those wearing $500 hand made Italian leather shoes while those in $50 sneakers wait??

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      No, next will be an advert while you wait for the green light.

    • so the traffic light will cater to whats best for the person in the $100k luxury car but the kid in the beater has to be at a disadvantage on teh public right of way?

      Nope. The traffic light still waits all the same for every one.
      The only difference is that the driver of the luxury car gets the privilege of having the wating counter of the traffic light directly displayed on their dashboard.
      (And the car will be able to shut down and restart the engine during the wait on its own if it is economic to do so).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Agripa ( 139780 )

      so the traffic light will cater to whats best for the person in the $100k luxury car but the kid in the beater has to be at a disadvantage on teh public right of way? seems like an equal access issue to me. Whats next? priority access to the side walk for those wearing $500 hand made Italian leather shoes while those in $50 sneakers wait??

      The $100k luxury car will be going the same speed with the same response time when it is stuck behind the beater.

  • Why do I need this? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:08PM (#53448445)

    * If there is no car in front of me I still have to wait for the light to turn green (and then some in the US to avoid red light runners)
    * If there is a car ahead of me I still have to wait for them to move before I can move.
    * If I have a car that shuts the engine down when stopped (and I have driven such cars), the engine already instantly comes on when my foot lifts from the brake pedal (and if it doesn't it won't happen with the App either)
    * If you are driving in traffic you still can't beat the dynamics of all those other people (and traffic doesn't /can't act like plug flow in a pipe unless you build in major automated convoy support)
    * If it is just you on a main road then it tries to keep the traffic flowing by defaulting to green lights in your direction (and it's those pesky side road drivers who screw up your green lights)
    * If it is just you on a side road then the lights will be defaulted against you anyway.

    So what are they really trying to solve? They already have a bunch of sensors/cameras that can be used to sample traffic and tell you what the current traffic patterns are.

    • They are trying to solve the lonely life of your Audi, which has no dates, and is trying its pick-up lines w/ the traffic signals. Would have a harem all over the city. Of course, what about all the Hondas, Toyotas, Fords, Chevies et al that are on the road? Don't ask

    • Even more importantly: In America, the stoplights have "hoods" on them to prevent them from being seen from any angle other than head on. They used to use a shiny substance but in direct sunlight, you could not tell if the light was green or red, so they stopped that. Regardless, the intent was to keep drivers from knowing what the other light was to prevent people from going into the intersection when the cross traffic had a yellow that was about to turn red. This violates that.

      • In America, the stoplights have "hoods" on them to prevent them from being seen from any angle other than head on.

        Is that what those hoods are for? I always thought they were to make the lights more visible by keeping them out of direct sunlight. Most of them certainly aren't very effective at hiding the color of the lights facing the other direction, whether because the angle is wrong to block the entire light or due to more subtle reflections, often on the inside of the hood itself.

        In any case, hiding information about the status of the intersection is counter-productive to ensuring safe and orderly traffic patterns.

    • Re:Why do I need this? (Score:4)

      by c ( 8461 ) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Thursday December 08, 2016 @05:51PM (#53449155)

      So what are they really trying to solve?

      Best I can figure is they want to eliminate any delay between the light turning green and the Audi driver leaning on the horn to let the person in front of them know that it's time to go.

    • At a guess, if you have a known quantity of red light time, you can tune the radio, adjust your seat, etc, and not get caught out when light goes green. This should lead to lower frustration levels for both you, and the cars around you.

      For a car manufacturer who trades solely on the "experience" (let's face it, Audis are just over-priced VWs), you can hardly blame them for trying something like this.

      Personally, I think there's better technologies they could be putting this R&D money into. But hey, eac

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by idji ( 984038 )
      if people know how many seconds it is to the next green light, maybe they will stop texting or surfing before the light goes green.
  • And they usually say "move on to the next car - nothing to see here".
    • No, the Audi can smell the Volkswagon next to it and tell it, "Get away from me.... You stink!!!"

  • I would like to see the countdown until the light is red, and if I'll make it at my current speed. This could help to save gas, as drivers could reduce acceleration sooner. Of course someone would soon hack this to tell you how fast you need to go to make the green (or yellow) light...

    • Yeah... the only thing is, if the light is still green but the countdown timer clearly shows you that you won't make it how likely are you to actually apply the brakes?

      There is a road near where I live which has a 65mph speed limit (which means people do 70 - 85) but has several stop lights. Since that is too high a speed to slow in time on a normally timed street light, they put up these flashing amber lights which will come on 5 seconds or so before the light turns yellow. So you know very well that even

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by jezwel ( 2451108 )

        if...the person in the car behind ... isn't paying 100% attention (they looked up for a second and saw the light was green, then look back down)... seems like a recipe for disaster.

        You are correct, anytime where you aren't bothering to look at where your vehicle is heading could lead to disaster.
        looking up at the road then back down again - (at what?) - just seems like poor driver behaviour.

        Saw this recently in person, when an emergency vehicle with just flashing lights - no siren - was turning across an intersection in front of me. I could tell traffic was moving strangely and slowed down, then stopped when I saw the emergency vehicle - as did the car next to me. Unfortunately the

    • Look at the pedestrian crossing signal. If it's signalling walk then you have plenty of time. If it's flashing don't walk then be prepared to stop. Some of the newer signals have a countdown on the pedestrian crossing until the light change and that will tell you exactly how much time is left.

      Most people would use this to speed up to make the light instead of slowing down. And this actually exists as this is the purpose of the yellow (amber) light.

  • That's dangerous (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    The reason why the stoplights for perpendicular traffic lanes have "blinders" on them is because people's reaction to the light switching colors is a consideration of the time on Yellow Lights.

    If you have some drivers with Asymmetric information advantage: the yellow light times will be based on the general public's behavior, and a subset of that public will start moving into the intersection earlier due to the lack of surprise improving their reaction time to the light switch.

  • The trouble with these technologies is they don't offer any value to users. There is nothing (I|V)2V offers which is both worth doing and can't be achieved with CV and common signage.

    All these system do is provide windfalls for technology firms lobbying for legislative mandates while encouraging mass surveillance and criminal exploitation of technology. Technology for technologies sake isn't just a waste of time and money but also inherently dangerous.

    I believe NHTSA is being knowingly dishonest and misle

  • Just keep "adding features".

    Eventually, you'll meet the guillotines.

  • Who cares about stop light? I need a count-down on the yellow light, and it needs to be in milliseconds... and I only needed where the red light camera is installed.
  • Forget the traffic lights, I want to know when it can talk to the casinos.

  • Stop lights in the Philippines have large LED readouts next to them which count down the time to turn.
    Red LEDs at a red light count down the time until it turns green. Green LEDs at a green light count down the time until it turns red.
    Seems to work well. People behave themselves and don't generally do stupid things.

  • If someone is so anxious about the red light turning green that they need a countdown to ease the anxiety then I'm thinking the problem isn't that a countdown is missing in their life. Why are they in such a state so that they are anxious about the light turning in the first place? There are a few cases where I could see a reason for being anxious such as being late for a job interview or wedding. But if you are anxious at every red light that you come to then I'm thinking that what you really need isn't

  • China (Score:2)

    by kwerle ( 39371 )

    Traffic in China is insane. Don't drive there.

    But many of their traffic lights count down - which I think is awesome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Cool. A lot like the USA. Green: Everyone drives through. Amber: Everyone drives through. First 3 seconds of red: Everyone drives through.

  • Granted some lights are complicated, with all those left turn lanes. But seriously, just wait your turn. Relax.

  • Big deal (Score:4, Funny)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Thursday December 08, 2016 @09:43PM (#53450159)

    I've been talking to traffic signals for years.

  • The walk signs already talk to pedestrians

    http://emndee.com/node/18

    (Shameless self-plug)

  • Thanks Audi for encouraging drivers to press on the accelerator at the end of the countdown regardless of what is happening in front of them. I mean, what could go worng?

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