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Transportation China

Faraday Future Unveils Super Fast Electric Car (bbc.com) 121

Start-up Faraday Future has unveiled a self-driving electric car that it says can accelerate from zero to 60mph (97km/h) in 2.39 seconds. Faraday says the FF91 accelerates faster than Tesla's Model S or any other electric car in production. From a report on BBC: It was shown off at the CES tech show in Las Vegas. But Faraday Future has faced financial difficulties and one analyst said it had to challenge "scepticism" following last year's CES presentation. The FF91 was introduced via a live demo, in which it drove itself around a car park and backed into an empty space. Pre-recorded footage also showed the car accelerating from standstill to 60mph in 2.39 seconds. Tesla's fastest model did it in 2.5 seconds on the same track. Late in the presentation, however, there was an awkward moment when Chinese billionaire Jia Yueting tried to demonstrate the car's self-parking function on stage in front of the audience. This time, the vehicle remained stationary.
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Faraday Future Unveils Super Fast Electric Car

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    The Tesla is actually in production.

    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      The problem is that they're trying to get a chunk of a small market (luxury electric sports cars) from a company largely loved by that market, by getting some sort of marginal top-end acceleration improvement. It'd be like if a startup smartphone manufacturer had though that they could convert Apple fanboys during the Steve Jobs era by producing an iPhone copycat that was pretty much the same as the latest iPhone model but with a processor that was 5% faster.

      • by Altus ( 1034 ) on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:58PM (#53617891) Homepage

        So you mean its the Samsung business model?

        • Not to speak for Rei but you may have missed his main point. Samsung's market is people who do want a smartphone but not an Apple product. The straw business model Rei presented was for a company that would try to displace Apple in the population of Apple fanbois.

          Right at this moment, Tesla's market is everyone who wants a luxury electric vehicle since they are the sole producer.

          • by green1 ( 322787 )

            And that is Rei's mistake.
            He is extrapolating that because people are currently buying Teslas, that they wouldn't rather buy from someone else. The fact is that there is a very large (and growing) portion of the Tesla customer base that is fed up with Tesla, and would gladly buy from anyone else if there was only a viable competitor. Unfortunately at this time, no suck competitor exists.
            To be successful in the market, a competitor to Tesla doesn't even have to produce a better vehicle, they just need to pro

            • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              Unfortunately at this time, no suck competitor exists.

              Freudian slip? I mean, I know the competitor's product might not auto-park correctly, but that's a little harsh. :-D

              • by green1 ( 322787 )

                lol, well, it was an honest typo, but if I'm going to be harsh on Faraday Future it won't be for the auto-park fail. A product failing to perform on stage 2 years before the final version is available to the public is embarrassing for the company, but not really a good indicator of how well the final product will work.

                If I'm going to criticize FF it will be for their lack of focus, lack of finances, and overly optimistic promises which I suspect will not come to fruition. I might also criticize the overly c

      • The problem is that they're trying to get a chunk of a small market (luxury electric sports cars)...

        Actually, they're trying to get a position in a future, gigantic market where everybody, rich and poor, switches to electric. For the time being, they just need a beachhead, much like Tesla with the Roadster.

        • If you want a position in a future market, you start making what that market will bear. For a future market where everyone buys electric, rich and poor, you make an inexpensive electric car with acceptable performance, not a high priced electric that is not really "Super Fast" at all. (60MPH is NOT super-fast.) None of the poor people are going to buy your cheap cars after you make a name for yourself as an expensive car manufacturer -- you're going to capitalize on your brand name and your prices will be h
          • If you want a position in a future market, you start making what that market will bear.

            Why do you do that? The market does not exist yet.

            • Why do you do that? The market does not exist yet.

              Because that's how you get a position on that future market. If you wait until it exists you're already behind. "Behind" is not the position that any company wants to be in.

              But in truth, the market does exist. There are already EVs. The poor don't buy them because they can't afford to. The rich already buy them. You want to get into the market, you make a car the poor can afford, because there are so many of them compared to rich. You don't do that by building cars with the best acceleration numbers of any

              • Why do you do that? The market does not exist yet.

                Because that's how you get a position on that future market.

                No, that's how you die. Relevant words: "before its time". If you want to be in business, you better be satisfying demand that actually exists, or you better have deep pockets to cover your stupidity.

                • No, that's how you die. Relevant words: "before its time".

                  I see nothing about "before its time" in anything you wrote. And as I said, the market is already breaking open, all it takes is a source that people can afford and more people will buy them.

                  Henry Ford broke open the automobile market by using standardized production lines to make a car that people could afford. I don't think "Ford Motor Company" died because he did that. Do you? Did "Volkswagon" die when they produced "the people's car"? Or did both companies get a good position in the future market?

                  • Ok, you invest your money in a budget all-electric car company, let us know how that works out for you. Good luck with those lead-acid batteries.

                • That would require to do a different business
                  What is wrong in preparing for and shaping a future market? Like Apple did with the iPod and iPhone? Or the new Space companies?

                  Everyone can "attempt" to make a product on the current market and compete with everyone else who is in that market ... but why? If you only have a limited budget this is the most risky thing to do. Why do you think you are able to make a new product, market it, sell it and compete at the same time with dozens if not hundreds of more exp

                  • What is wrong in preparing for and shaping a future market? Like Apple did with the iPod and iPhone?

                    You can have "actual demand" as evidenced by customers buying products, or "suppressed demand" for a variety of reasons, including product not being available or current prices too high. Apple correctly judged that suppressed demand existed for the iphone, and that it was able to create a product to convert that suppressed demand into real demand. That was smart. But entering a market where suppressed demand exists, but can't be converted into real demand, for example, because the product cannot be produce

                    • but it is a practical certainty that better return on investment could have been achieved elsewhere
                      Which requires that you have expertise elsewhere.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:18PM (#53617533)

    Wake me up when they have a Super Cheap electric car.

    • by DogDude ( 805747 )
      Well, first, oil and gas subsidies have to stop, so I think it'll be a while before they're "cheap".
      • Well, first, oil and gas subsidies have to stop, so I think it'll be a while before they're "cheap".

        Faraday Future is also getting subsidies [fortune.com]. After all, we wouldn't want any of these billionaires to have to actually risk their own money, would we?

        • I think Faraday is going to pull what Fisker did. Take all that sweet handout money knowing the product can't be done from an engineering standpoint. The big shots leave with all the money and get more high paying jobs somewhere else.

      • WHAT subsidies are you thinking we give to "oil and gas"?

        As far as I know, there are none... Unless you count the various tax rules which allow deductions for various costs of doing business which ALL companies are allowed (not just oil and gas companies).

        • All companies are allowed practically cost-free, perpetual leases on government owned wilderness lands? Wowee!

          =Smidge=

          • NOT in the last 8 years...Well, no NEW leases in the last 8 years.

            So.. How is this a subsidy? The terms of the leases are similar to those on private lands as best I can tell.

        • Then you should start looking, because there is a reason why every other major country (except the middle east/major oil suppliers) are paying 50% to 150% more than we do per gallon of gas.

          http://www.globalpetrolprices.... [globalpetrolprices.com]

          • The difference here is mostly in the taxes, not the actual cost of the gasoline or diesel fuel. In some places, fuel is more expensive because it's more costly to ship and store, but the majority of the price difference is about taxes.

            So, how is the difference in taxes charged the end customer equate to a subsidy?

      • the "subsidies are bad!" guy! Can we call it a troll now?
    • Wake me up when they have a Super Cheap electric car.

      Don't bother me until they have also made it recharge enough in a 15-30 min stop to make it another 300 miles of highway driving and there are charging stations at least every 100 miles on all the interstates I drive on.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by codeButcher ( 223668 ) on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:50PM (#53617825)

      Wake me up when they have a Super Cheap electric car.

      ... or just comparatively priced with a comparative range to today's ICEs. Now that would be groundbreaking.

    • Batteries are a significant cost for electric cars. I know where someone can get millions of cheap batteries, Samsung branded.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:19PM (#53617541)

    I thought they manufactured just cages.

  • What is the Battery range?

    • Nobody knows. And even if they measure these one-offs, they're not in production, or for sale, in any time in the near future.

    • Depends.... But using maximum acceleration will get you 1/4 mile....

      Of course, after that, it will take you 12 hours to recharge the battery w/o overheating it....

      Sarc off

    • What is the Battery range?

      At around 10 seconds in the video, it claims "over 700Km"(435mi) on a single charge.

  • Brand B? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrLogic17 ( 233498 ) on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:32PM (#53617657) Journal

    I took a look at their web site, and man, does it feel like vapor-ware. All I wanted was information about the car, but 95% of the web site is on features of the seats, doors, and phone integration. Odd sales pitch for a car.

    What little I could see about the car part of the car left me saying that it's a just like a Tesla. Except you can actually buy & drive a Tesla.

    I predict a quick collapse of this company.

    • I took a look at their web site, and man, does it feel like vapor-ware.

      Yeah I've gotten the same vibe from the company from day one. It doesn't really strike me as a serious company. Seems more like an effort to get some money from investors on a product that will probably never come to market. Maybe I'm wrong but there is just something about the whole deal that seems a bit off from what I'd expect out of a serious company.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I took a look at their web site, and man, does it feel like vapor-ware. All I wanted was information about the car, but 95% of the web site is on features of the seats, doors, and phone integration. Odd sales pitch for a car.

      What little I could see about the car part of the car left me saying that it's a just like a Tesla. Except you can actually buy & drive a Tesla.

      I predict a quick collapse of this company.

      Faraday Future intrigued me, and I have a friend who works out there. I ended up interviewing and turning the job down. I do not regret that decision. The dysfunction started leaking before I even accepted the job.

    • That's the new reality of "mobile oriented" websites. Pretty but useless.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      There are some videos like this one [youtu.be] where they demonstrate the car. They clearly have a working platform with apparently great handling and acceleration. The interior is just full of development kit though, only the space model car much in it and none of it seemed to be working.

      Also, it's a long long way from a prototype of this nature to a mass production car.

  • The acceleration numbers are spectacular but one cannot conclude at all this car is a sportscar. The first thing I'd want to know is, the batteries heat up under hard acceleration. Therefore the question is, can the car do hard acceleration repeatedly without overheating and cutting the power.
    I found conflicting information on the webs about the Tesla in that respect but in any case it would be a valid question for this car as well.

    • Re:Overheating (Score:5, Informative)

      by tinkerton ( 199273 ) on Friday January 06, 2017 @12:38PM (#53617707)

      Here ( http://www.motorauthority.com/... [motorauthority.com] ) the Tesla can only do a third of the Nurburgring before temperature safeguards cut the power.

    • If Electric cars ever become serious sports cars they're probably going to bring back grills, and find a way to maximize airflow over the batteries to try and cool them.

      • by green1 ( 322787 )

        Electric cars are serious sports cars, and they don't care about airflow over the batteries because it's too inefficient. They use liquid cooling just like you do for anything you're serious about cooling properly.
        Tesla took a shortcut in their motor cooling and then took a software shortcut to cut power based on time at high power rather than temperature, combined it makes the Tesla inappropriate for prolonged usage on a race track. That doesn't mean all electric cars are that way.
        Take a look at Formula-E

  • "the FF91 accelerates faster than Tesla's Model S or any other electric car in production" Yeah vaporware can definitely do that.
  • Tell me again how self driving cars are supposed to bring safety to the roads by not having a human driver AND capable of drag racing at the same time?

    • Tell me again how self driving cars are supposed to bring safety to the roads by not having a human driver AND capable of drag racing at the same time?

      Maybe by outrunning all the accident-causing bad human drivers? (Sarcasm aside, I agree with you. Seems the acceleration is just sales pitch, it seems that is the lowest-hanging fruit in e-car features, given electric motor properties.)

    • Tell me again how lenses can both see things as small as bacteria and also see things as far away as other planets.

      Oh, wait, those are two similar but different instances of a class of technology, optimized for strikingly different purposes.

      Also, fire can both cook meat AND light your home, but not the same fire. And Nitroglycerin can both protect your heart and blow up things.

  • Faraday Future unveils super-fast business model that accelerates from $10 Billion to bankruptcy in 2.39 months!
  • 0-60MPH performance means nothing to anyone else other than EV vendors caught up in this dick-measuring race.

    0-60MPH performance means nothing to anyone else other than EV vendors caught up in this dick-measuring race.

    How many fucking times must this be said, as if the primary metric (battery range) consumers magically don't give a shit about anymore?

    Don't worry though. This dick-measuring race will end once we have a 1-second 0-60MPH EV underneath some humans foot who sneezes at a stoplight, accident

    • by Octorian ( 14086 )

      That's why we need these companies to get to the point where they can diversify their product lines. So they can make normal cars with sane performance, while also having a dedicated sportscar line for bragging rights. It may not happen until Tesla's next-gen roadster, or projects like the Rimac Concept One turn into mass-production vehicles, but it'll hopefully happen someday.

      • That's why we need these companies to get to the point where they can diversify their product lines. So they can make normal cars with sane performance, while also having a dedicated sportscar line for bragging rights. It may not happen until Tesla's next-gen roadster, or projects like the Rimac Concept One turn into mass-production vehicles, but it'll hopefully happen someday.

        The surest way to fail is for a new, unknown car company to build economy cars. Who is going to pay $25K or more to an unknown car company with an unknown track record?

        However, people are willing to pay a lot of money for custom cars, especially fast ones, even if it ends up being a collectors item. It's a way to recoup R&D costs while growing the business.

        • That's why we need these companies to get to the point where they can diversify their product lines. So they can make normal cars with sane performance, while also having a dedicated sportscar line for bragging rights. It may not happen until Tesla's next-gen roadster, or projects like the Rimac Concept One turn into mass-production vehicles, but it'll hopefully happen someday.

          The surest way to fail is for a new, unknown car company to build economy cars. Who is going to pay $25K or more to an unknown car company with an unknown track record?

          How do you do it? The same way previous vendors did it; by putting a good price tag on your product. When Hyundai broke into the US market in the 80's plenty of people took the gamble on a car that cost a fraction of a Toyota or Honda. Same for Saturn. And the businesses grew just fine without having to offer up a line of obscenely priced "custom" cars.

          I can buy a $20K car that gets damn near 40MPG today. The difference between $20K and the $80K "custom" EV is a SHITLOAD of gas money, which tends to vap

      • by green1 ( 322787 )

        Sort of, but the truth is that in the EV world, there's no reason to compromise on performance, it's not the same as with traditional vehicles, a large motor adds negligible cost to the vehicle, and it doesn't use much more electricity in normal use than the smaller motor does, so it doesn't compromise range much either. It's not like traditional cars where you have to chose between performance and efficiency, you can have both in an EV. (to certain limits, at the top end you do need to spend more, but not

    • accidentally hitting the LUDICRIOUS-SPEED-GO pedal, killing half a dozen people in a crosswalk in the blink of an eye.

      ... and killing THE DRIVER too

      • accidentally hitting the LUDICRIOUS-SPEED-GO pedal, killing half a dozen people in a crosswalk in the blink of an eye.

        ... and killing THE DRIVER too

        Ironically enough, we've made considerable advances in vehicle safety, so the human encased in 3,000 pounds of steel protected by seat belts, crumple zones, and 47 airbags will probably survive, while the rather squishy objects impaled on the front bumper won't fare so well...

    • I have a feeling 0-60mph will be like the new "how thin is your smartphone". Something that once it hits a certain point consumers aren't going to care any more. I'd rather have a better battery in my car/phone than I would have a thinner phone/ faster acceleration.

      Yet, I know, just like Apple is going to keep shaving fractions of a mm off their phones rather than provide any meaningful improvement, electric car companies are probably going to keep targeting improving their 0-60 time.

      Does anyone really ne

    • by green1 ( 322787 )

      They do it because it's easy. What customers really care about is range and recharge time, but those are hard expensive problems to solve. Unlike in traditional vehicles though, more horsepower and more torque are practically free in an EV. A larger electric motor adds negligible more cost to building the vehicle, it adds only a tiny amount more weight, and apart from the tiny amount of weight, has no impact on range unless you floor it all the time, so there's no real downside there either.

      It makes easy he

  • Faraway Future unveils super fast electric car.

    Summaries should have light-hearted and punny titles wherever possible.
  • While everyone wants a car that can accelerate quickly, there is little point in having one if it cannot compare in a test of endurance. A lot of work went into making the Tesla motor run without overheating or needing an active cooling system so that it could go the maximum distance possible on the least amount of energy. I had serious doubts that this can compare with the same metric but if it can, great!

  • All cars don't run in drag races, you know...
  • by jlv ( 5619 ) on Friday January 06, 2017 @02:03PM (#53618293)

    They are trying to leverage the Tesla approach to building a company: build a high-priced performance sports car first (Roadster), and then really usable cars after that. It worked for Tesla. (so far, but it looks like it will get them to the Model 3).

    I doubt it will work for FF.

    It's not like it was 9 years ago. There are lots of production EVs on the road, and more coming out all the time. A new superfast non-production 0-60 car.... who cars?

    Meanwhile, FF is missing payments to vendors. It looks doubtful they'll last long enough to get this past prototype.

    • by jlv ( 5619 )

      FWIW... I've put 24K miles on a Nissan LEAF. I've got a Model 3 reservation and a Model S on order.

      The deliveries of the Chevy Bolt to customers last month was a milestone event. *That* was great news for electric cars (notwithstanding that GM doesn't car if EVs succeed or not).

      FF is missing the point.

    • They are trying to leverage the Tesla approach to building a company: build a high-priced performance sports car first (Roadster), and then really usable cars after that. It worked for Tesla. (so far, but it looks like it will get them to the Model 3).

      I doubt it will work for FF.

      It's not like it was 9 years ago. There are lots of production EVs on the road, and more coming out all the time. A new superfast non-production 0-60 car.... who cars?

      I agree.

      I don't have the megabucks for a Tesla Roadster. If I did, I'd buy a Tesla not a Faraday Future. I trust Tesla will still be around in 5 years, FF not so much. Tesla has proven themselves capable of building a quality car, FF has not.

      If I'm going to invest the money on a super expensive electric car, I'm getting a car from a company I trust. Faraday future I don't trust. Not yet. When Tesla came out there was not tried premium electric car brand so people were willing to take a risk on them.

    • There are lots of production EVs on the road, and more coming out all the time. A new superfast non-production 0-60 car.... who cars?

      It looks nice and has good range. If the price is good, I would consider getting one.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If someone could produce something competitive with the Model 3, that would be a story. An affordable EV with 200+ mile range and good performance.

  • Mail vans, many delivery vans, most school buses stay parked in one location for a long time. Their routes and timing are mostly predictable. There was some company created by executives who are Tesla alumi. It was pitching the use of battery garbage trucks and delivery vans. Wonder what happened to them?

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