Driverless Electric Shuttle Deployed In Downtown Las Vegas (yahoo.com) 79
schwit1 quotes the Associated Press: There's a new thrill on the streets of downtown Las Vegas, where high- and low-rollers alike are climbing aboard what officials call the first driverless electric shuttle operating on a public U.S. street. The oval-shaped shuttle began running Tuesday as part of a 10-day pilot program, carrying up to 12 passengers for free along a short stretch of the Fremont Street East entertainment district.
The vehicle has a human attendant and computer monitor, but no steering wheel and no brake pedals. Passengers push a button at a marked stop to board it. The shuttle uses GPS, electronic curb sensors and other technology, and doesn't require lane lines to make its way.
The shuttle -- which they've named Arma -- is traveling at 15 miles per hour, and the ride is smooth, according to the mayor of Las Vegas. ("It's clean and quiet and seats comfortably.") They've blocked all the side streets, so the shuttle doesn't have to deal with traffic signals yet, though eventually they'll install special transmitters at every intersection to communicate whether the lights are red or green, and the city plans to deploy more of the vehicles by the end of the year.
The vehicle has a human attendant and computer monitor, but no steering wheel and no brake pedals. Passengers push a button at a marked stop to board it. The shuttle uses GPS, electronic curb sensors and other technology, and doesn't require lane lines to make its way.
The shuttle -- which they've named Arma -- is traveling at 15 miles per hour, and the ride is smooth, according to the mayor of Las Vegas. ("It's clean and quiet and seats comfortably.") They've blocked all the side streets, so the shuttle doesn't have to deal with traffic signals yet, though eventually they'll install special transmitters at every intersection to communicate whether the lights are red or green, and the city plans to deploy more of the vehicles by the end of the year.
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There's no perfect technology. It only has to be nearly perfect. Considering how many people die on the highway every year I suspect that in another 5 years the driverless cars will be safer than the ones with a human controlling it. 92 people die on the roads in the US every day on average. If auto driving cars can halve that it'll be good enough.
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We're hitting those kids now. People run over kids all the time that are so small they just don't see them. That's the point, driving is inherently dangerous and right now we have millions of drivers who are unskilled or impaired in some way. I don't say the technology is ready at this minute but it's certainly improving at a rapid pace and isn't that far away.
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But what's in it for the driver? They're the person who has to foot the bill, and it seems unlikely that there will be a significant reduction in insurance rates since there's a relatively small percentage of scenarios where such a warning system will prevent accidents. It may even make things worse as drivers come to rely on the warning system rather than their own good judgment.
Plus there's going to be considerable lag between when the warning is issued and when the driver responds. At best, if the dri
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Actually, the "click-thru" agreement you have to accept to activate the Tesla "almost-automatic" mode makes clear that you're expected to stay fully alert and ready to slam on the brakes despite the car being completely oblivious to an impending disaster. (i.e. it's like an airplane autopilot - barely enough good judgment to avoid driving off the road on its own)
And on this front I have to say I consider Musk an irresponsible asshole - human nature pretty much guarantees that almost no one will be able to m
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Manual cars will be just as safe. There is nothing preventing manual cars from talking with one another and warning the driver.
And then the driver has to see the warning, understand the warning, correctly decide what to do about the warning, and then do it. Meanwhile during this process the car continues to move. One advantage of automated cars are that this all happens almost instantly (the main variable is how correct the decision is, and that's also a significant variable with a human driver), and it happens reliably, or it will eventually.
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You're making the assumption that the AI correctly interprets the situation in the first place, of course.
Not really, I explicitly called out that that will be the main issue, and that humans have the same problem.
It's going to be twenty years before it understands the world as well as a human.
They don't need to do that to be able to drive more safely than an average driver.
For example, the driver will start changing lanes and there will be a beep, well it's pretty obvious then that you should stay in your current lane and the human won't have trouble reacting.
That technology is great, and it will get more common and improve safety. But it won't improve safety nearly as much as high quality automated cars.
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They don't need to do that to be able to drive more safely than an average driver.
Why the hell not? If a manual car automaker made a car on which the lug bolts could break thus losing the wheel and killing the occupant, that car would not be allowed on the market. Why would we allow AI on the market that is in some way not safe? Humans cannot be held responsible for mistakes that the AI makes no more than a lug bold snapping. I don't care how many people it might save one day, you can't guarantee that result so people should not be injured or killed today. What are these companies g
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Why the hell not?
They just need to understand a subset of the world well enough to safely navigate. There is a huge amount of information you take in about your surroundings (and mostly discard) that an automatic car just doesn't need to be interested in or understand.
Why would we allow AI on the market that is in some way not safe?
Every product on the market is in some way not safe, including cars. They just need to be safe enough, with the standards for safe enough continually changing.
I don't care how many people it might save one day, you can't guarantee that result so people should not be injured or killed today.
I'm not sure what you're saying. That the technology is not ready for widespread adoption? That's
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An automatic car will pretty much need to understand the world to be as safe as a human. For example, when a human sees a child's toy suddenly cast out into the road, they slow down and look for the child that might run after it.
For a while, deficiencies in their understanding will be more than made up for by improvements in other areas, such as sensors and reaction time.
So now you're saying automated cars today are as safe as anything else on public roads?
I never said any such thing. I don't know why you think I did.
These cars could and should be tested in a controlled environment.
And they are.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. What "pass" am I giving them? I said that if a company is found liable they will pay. If individuals are found guilty of crimes, they will be sentenced. I said the technology is not ready for mass adoption but that eventually it's going to be good enough to save a lot of lives. You seem to be responding to something you wish I said rather than what I actually said.
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They could run over someone and that makes them dangerous enough.
If we use that standard, the technology will never be permitted (and neither would any other new thing). Testing is necessary, yes, but we need not fall victim to the perfect solution fallacy.
https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2... [wordpress.com]
Re: So, not really in Vegas... (Score:1)
You mean Fremont Street? (Score:2)
People live on Fremont Street? I thought it was all locals casinos and bars.
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If they were trying to kill us it wouldn't be running 15mph.
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Well...I guess if you lay down in front of it you could die. Should die really.
Re: So, not really in Vegas... (Score:2)
Should die really.
In that case, I suggest we start by steamrolling those who refuse to use punctuation. ;)
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You've never seen a Fish Calls Wanda, where 15 mph *could* kill you with an automated steamroller. Because of course they will try to automate construction equipment.
if it was from a Fish called Wanda it would be: where 15 mph *c c c c ccould* k k k kkill you, with an automated steamroller.
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I would think it'd be easier to deploy a driverless shuttle on the strip. There is a very intentional effort to erect physicals barriers to separate the drunk pedestrians from the drunk drivers. Without pedestrians to worry about, it would seem to be an almost artificially good area to deploy a driverless shuttle
Busses, Street Sweepers and Garbage Trucks (Score:4, Insightful)
They drive the same route day after day, they don't need to go fast, they are either owned by the city or by companies that have major relationships with the city so they can avoid major regulatory hurdles.
These are the obvious first adopters of driverless technology.
2020 should see a quick reduction in the number of bus and similar drivers.
By the time I retire, I hope to be able to afford one of those high end driverless cars.
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It's definitely going to happen. Maybe in the 20's sometime.
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This is why it's such a shame that the vast majority of rail trolley networks across the US were destroyed. They would have been almost trivial to automate.
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Yes, it needs to go faster. But, you could "jog" a 4-minute mile? The world record for a mile is 3:43.15.
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They drive the same route day after day, they don't need to go fast, they are either owned by the city or by companies that have major relationships with the city so they can avoid major regulatory hurdles. These are the obvious first adopters of driverless technology.
No, but buses are big and most needed during rush hour. The moment something doesn't work you're likely to inconvenience a lot of people on the bus and on the same road. Garbage trucks are better, but usually noisy so people want collection in daytime with other traffic and you'd need a lot of technology to automate emptying the containers to really automate it. I think sweeper cars would be perfect, nobody would care if they drive at 10 mph with the yellow warning lights say 01-04 AM, if they get stuck or
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I think sweeper cars would be perfect, nobody would care if they drive at 10 mph with the yellow warning lights say 01-04 AM, if they get stuck or have a breakdown you have time to send a mop-up crew to collect them before the morning rush.
Especially since a human already has to go in front of the street sweeper already to write tickets.
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Yeah, but it changes the timing considerably. While I lived in Denver the ticket writing usually started a good 4 hours before the street sweeper arrived. Very annoying.
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While I lived in Denver the ticket writing usually started a good 4 hours before the street sweeper arrived. Very annoying.
That's really annoying. In San Francisco, the ticket-writer is usually a block or two ahead of the sweeper.
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If the purpose is to get the cars out of the way, what good does that do? By the time the driver sees the ticket usually the sweeper will be long gone. If there's a regular posted schedule of when parking is not allowed due to street sweeping then maybe it would work to get those people to not park there next time.
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If there's a regular posted schedule of when parking is not allowed due to street sweeping then maybe it would work to get those people to not park there next time.
Yeah, that's the goal. But there are usually one or two cars remaining on every block from people who didn't understand.
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Apparently it's hard to read street signs. The other day picking up my kid from school I saw two people parked right in front of a sign that said "No parking, stopping or standing at any time". Derp. Fortunately a cop came along and made them move.
mobile drunk tank (Score:2)
attendant (Score:4, Funny)
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The attendant has no steering wheel or break. What does the attendant have, a bucket and a mop?
From TFS:
The vehicle has a human attendant and computer monitor, but no steering wheel and no brake pedals.
Presumably the computer monitor is not just for show.
not just for show (Score:2)
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The attendant has no steering wheel or break. What does the attendant have, a bucket and a mop?
Yes, to clean up the incontinence issues that arise when the passengers learn they are in a vehicle that has no steering wheel and no brakes.
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There is an attendant and a dog. The dog is there to bite the attendant if he tries to touch the controls.
The attendant is there to feed the dog.
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In London we have the "Docklands Light Railway", which is entirely autonomous. Every once in a while someone gets on, opens up a control panel of some sort and start operating the train in some way. I've always wondered why - if they're there for safety or security then that's fine, but why do they need to 'help' a train that runs without their help without any problem...?
As for this... I'm left wondering why it's not on rails, given they've had to close a load of roads to make it work.
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Giving Trump credit before he is even in (Score:1)
The Downside (Score:2)
The major downside being you have to be anywhere near Fremont street in old Las Vegas. This part of north Las Vegas is a complete shithole, and should be avoided at all costs.
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But the D has a sigma derby!
Mass Transport in Lost Wages (Score:2)
They need to do something. Last time I was in Lost Wages I had to wait four hours for a cab. I walked back to the hotel which took another two hours.
Yeah, I don't go there anymore.
Automatic Apology App Installed? (Score:1)
Unexpected (Score:2)
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There's a world of difference between a 12-passenger shuttle and a "fleet of autonomous vehicles."
Elvis has left the wheel (Score:2)
Over (Score:2)
I'm sure this will go over the drunks real well, I mean go over real well with all the drunks. Either way it'll be fun to watch.