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Microsoft Locks Ryzen, Kaby Lake Users Out of Updates On Windows 7, 8.1 (kitguru.net) 419

Artem Tashkinov writes: In a move that will shock a lot of people, someone at Microsoft decided to deny Windows 7/8.1 updates to the users of the following CPU architectures: Intel seventh (7th)-generation processors (Kaby Lake); AMD "Bristol Ridge" (Zen/Ryzen); Qualcomm "8996." It's impossible to find any justification for this decision to halt support for the x86 architectures listed above because you can perfectly run MS-DOS on them. Perhaps, Microsoft has decided that the process of foisting Windows 10 isn't running at full steam, so the company created this purely artificial limitation. I expect it to be cancelled soon after a wide backlash from corporate customers. KitGuru notes that users may encounter the following error message when they attempt to update their OS: "Your PC uses a processor that isn't supported on this version of Windows." The only resolution is to upgrade to Windows 10.
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Microsoft Locks Ryzen, Kaby Lake Users Out of Updates On Windows 7, 8.1

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  • by Rockoon ( 1252108 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:24PM (#54054527)
    I'm sure someone will release a CPUID hack to pretend to be a lower end cpu, much like Agner Fog used when proving that Intel's compiler and the code it produced would shit on both AMD and VIA on purpose.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) <mojoNO@SPAMworld3.net> on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:34PM (#54054609) Homepage Journal

      From now on I'll be running Windows in a virtual CPU I think.

      The tipping point where it's worth getting everything I need working on Linux has arrived. I'm off to look for ScanSnap drivers.

      • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:01PM (#54055107)

        From now on I'll be running Windows in a virtual CPU I think.

        I switched to Linux Mint a while back and have no complaints. I'm also looking at Chapeau (chapeaulinux.org) but so far Mint works great.

        Microsoft just can't help fucking people over and then bragging about it. Incredible.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 17, 2017 @03:36AM (#54056535)
          I agree. Incredible!

          Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] From that article: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC."

          My opinion: There should be far stronger protests, including legal action and laws against that kind of abuse.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Switching is not going well so far.

          My ScanSnap document scanner doesn't work properly. You can hack it so that the button works and it kinda does reasonable scans on one side of the page, but not both. And there is no document management software like there is on Windows.

          I use Atmel Studio a lot. Windows only, needs USB drivers for the programmer/debugger. Someone suggested VirtualBox. USB worked once but now it's broken and I can't get the debugger to connect. WINE doesn't even load the app properly. There

      • From now on I'll be running Windows in a virtual CPU I think.

        The tipping point where it's worth getting everything I need working on Linux has arrived. I'm off to look for ScanSnap drivers.

        Likewise! The interesting thing is that this may be true for a very large number of users. For years we have put up with sub-optimal results from successive editions of Windows, but because most of us have day jobs which are rather higher-priority, we lived with Windows as long as it sort-kinda worked.

        But in the long term, or even the medium term - which Microsoft may be in the process of changing into the short term - we are going to be forced to change. Next time I want a new PC, which may not be for a ye

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It also "just" applies to Microsoft(tm) WindowsUpdate(tm), not any 3rd-party-solution. So use wsus-offline on anonther PC. Also, fuck microsoft. We still not gonna use Whindos10.

      • by jez9999 ( 618189 )

        Does wsus-offline let me pick and choose which updates to install? If not, is there anything that does? I have a whole list of updates I block because they're Windows 10 nagware, telemetry, etc.

    • by alzoron ( 210577 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:48PM (#54054717) Journal

      One way you could get around it with Kaby Lake processors is to pop in a Skylake processor when you want to update.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        There is another way to fix it. Tell Intel their KABY Lake processors are shit because they will not run in windows, so meh, you will not be buying one. Seriously who cares, M$ is utter fucking shite and I am on my last version and anything branded or published by them is out.

      • Intel has been going along with what Microsoft has been doing here (Microsoft not building drivers for the last 2 gens of Intel x64 chips). AMD wrote Windows 7 drivers for their new Zen Ryzen architecture that just came out, specifically because Microsoft wouldn't - so AMD's customers could use Windows 7. Typical morally bankrupt choice by Microsoft executives, again...seems built into the corporate culture...and Intel wasn't writing drivers for Kaby Lake (and Skylake was a pain to get Win 7 to work on) s
    • by hairyfeet ( 841228 ) <bassbeast1968&gmail,com> on Thursday March 16, 2017 @08:57PM (#54055083) Journal
      Pssst....WSUS Offline [wsusoffline.net] or Autopatcher [autopatcher.net] and Bob's your uncle, no need to do any hacking...oh and you're welcome ;-)
      • by Kjella ( 173770 )

        Pssst....WSUS Offline or Autopatcher and Bob's your uncle, no need to do any hacking...oh and you're welcome ;-)

        For now... how long until they start putting it in the actual installer? The frog is on half boil, only a matter of time if you ask me...

      • Doesn't solve the root cause of MS not supporting a product that is still within active support. Dropping Windows 7 is justified. Dropping Windows 8.1 is not.

    • I'm sure someone will release a CPUID hack to pretend to be a lower end cpu, much like Agner Fog used when proving that Intel's compiler and the code it produced would shit on both AMD and VIA on purpose.

      Are people so desperate to get Microsoft's malware, adware, DRM, reboots, and other shit?

      • by unrtst ( 777550 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @10:30PM (#54055551)

        IMO, using a cpuid hack doesn't seem all that desperate. Assuming one gets created, it seems like it'd easily be the path of least resistance.
        * install cpuid hack once, and keep running what you've got with no other issues (until they block that or add some other awful thing)
        * use wsus-offline or autopatcher (I've never used either, but it seems like something that'd be an ongoing thing, you'd have to change some existing settings and expectations, and it'd take some initial setup)
        * install a different OS (GNU Linux / Mac OS X / etc). This would be difficult for a most people, and there's a large number of people that aren't willing to give up some programs (especially games), and there's a large number of people that would still require use of some of those programs for work / client-specific purposes.
        * upgrade to windows 10 - which has even more malware/adware/DRM/reboots/etc.

        If I were running windows, I'd be pissed about this. If there was a cpuid hack and I still wanted to keep windows, I'd probably use it rather than the alternatives.

  • by SlayerOfKings ( 959336 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:25PM (#54054533)
    Why the hell are people shocked? Microsoft first said it was going to do this 14 months ago, way back in January 2016.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:40PM (#54054655)

      No, they said they would not support new cpus - thats fine, if they dont want to supply new drivers for new hardware, but thats not what they doing now, they block access to ALL windows updates if you have installed (and obviously got it to work) windows 10 on a new cpu. how is this not simply blackmail?!

      • So what exactly did you think "support" was? Do you really think it's limited to drivers?

        Never mind the development, testing, and troubleshooting going on behind the scenes for the whole array of CPUs.

        • by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @08:45PM (#54055051)

          So what exactly did you think "support" was?

          Up until now, nobody thought that "support" was the logical inverse of "sabotage".

        • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:03PM (#54055119)

          "No support" means: "You are running on unsupported hardware. Do you want to continue anyways? y/n".
          What they are doing is "Your hardware is unsupported. Be fucked." That one is called "sabotage".

        • THere is a difference between being " an unsupported configuration " and being disallowed. Is there a chance that MS doesn't want anyone to be on older versions of Windows? Sounds like they are tired of supporting them? Lets be serious.. Win7 is a solid desktop. Is there a compelling reason to move to newer version? The OS will soon be transparent, and largely irrelevant.. and the value will be whats around the planet. Right now.. is your browser maximized on your screen? If so... its already happened to
        • by guruevi ( 827432 ) <evi&evcircuits,com> on Friday March 17, 2017 @10:04AM (#54057827) Homepage

          The problem is that it's logically the same architecture. Kaby Lake CPU's can boot into CP/M or OS/2 because it has an x86 emulation layer and supports all the instruction sets since the 8088. You may not be able to use all the fancy new things in the CPU, but it will work.

          "Not supported" means - we won't work on giving you access to the newest instruction sets (if they have a new AVX or AES instruction set for example), it doesn't mean, we'll add code to check for a CPUID and refuse to boot. "Not supported" means, we won't fix the damned thing if it breaks, not, we'll intentionally break it so you're forced to upgrade.

          The problem here is they have to add code to their "unsupported OS" specifically to break things. If they have the time to add and test code to do that, they would have time to properly support it.

      • Well Microsoft noticed that Windows 10 was still not on 100% of users computers so they felt compelled to escalate the war.

  • by Chrontius ( 654879 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:35PM (#54054611)
    Does anybody really think that everyone will "upgrade" to windows 10 because of this?
  • by Tinsoldier314 ( 3811439 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:43PM (#54054675)
    Wait, so I if switch to Win 7 I won't have to deal with windows unilaterally deciding to reboot on me to install updates? Sign me up!
  • by Chas ( 5144 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:50PM (#54054747) Homepage Journal

    No, that's NOT the only resolution.

    Anyone who's the least bit tech-savvy can use WSUSOffline to draw down all the updates.

    The only issue you have there is that Microsoft's update servers are randomly peppered with corrupted manifest files which prevent fresh WSUSOffline setups from downloading anything. So you have to do multiple attempts on multiple networks (sometimes) before getting a pristine manifest.

    Once you have it, it's fine from there on out.

    But yeah, this is major bullshit on Microsoft's part. And Nadella and his crew need to be drawn and quartered for this.

  • by Jaborandy ( 96182 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:50PM (#54054749)
    • Step 1: New CPU comes out
    • Step 2: "Looks like we've got to make a new driver for this new CPU version."
    • Step 3: "Done. The Windows 10 driver is great and we can release it. Yay!"
    • Step 4: "Do we have to make Win 7 version of this driver now?"
    • Step 5: "We told them we wouldn't support all the new stuff. Most of the people running old OSes are also running it on older hardware, so this won't affect that many people. Let's not do the extra work."
    • Step 5: Internet freaks out.

    In all seriousness, I believe these chipsets were sold in machines that originally came with Windows 10 (or not with Windows). This only affects people who bought new PCs, then manually installed an old OS because they liked it more. That's low volume stuff that is only overrepresented here on Slashdot. Most of the world doesn't even notice moves like this, because their PC came with Windows, whatever version, and it still works and updates.

    --Jaborandy

    • by GoChickenFat ( 743372 ) on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:14PM (#54055163)
      um, no. enterprises are still buying new hardware and installing corporate approved images with win7 while they continue to work on win10 deployment plans. enterprises rely on the extended support dates published by MS to drive priorities and planning for massive roll outs like win10. Win10 is not a trivial update due to the new management needs for store, updates, telemetry and privacy settings, third party app updates, user training, etc...
    • by jonwil ( 467024 )

      Microsoft made the announcement that Windows 7 would not be supported on these newer chips before these chips were even available to buy. Anyone who still needed Windows 7 should have seen this and bought something with an older chip in it (or if you are a big company lots of things with older chips in them)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:55PM (#54054781)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding

    "HEVC is restricted by patents owned by various parties. Use of HEVC technologies requires the payment of royalties to licensors of HEVC patents, such as MPEG LA, HEVC Advance, and Technicolor SA."

    All 3 of those working groups stated have strong ties to the MPAA, who doesn't like older Operating Systems used by pirates. The entire push for TPM modules on computers and Secureboot was primarily from the MPAA and RIAA effectively telling Microsoft "Either keep your users from pirating our stuff or we will revoke your Coded Licensing for Windows Media Player and ensure nobody can play DVD's on computers" in the late 00's. It wasn't until after those technologies were deployed that software companies began using them for security, e.g. using TPM modules to lock down disks or Secure Boot to lock down boot-code.

    This is the same story replaying itself, but this time Intel is the victim. Pretty much all of the mid-sized and large web media companies are grouping together to build competing, free standards e.g. VP9. I expect HEVC to end up the same way many proprietary standards on video capture equipment ended up; obsolete in 3 years.

    If you're looking to skip a processor generation, right now is the time.

    • so they are not pushing to lock out linux? with lines of MPAA, who doesn't like non windows os used by pirates.

    • by Khyber ( 864651 )

      Alliance for Open Media is going to crush HEVC without fail. All the real technology companies are getting in on it, leaving the MPEG and VCEG out of the loop. They're tired of being told how to make their products to any degree, and are fighting back.

  • Another wave of used hardware is going to hit the market for Linux users any time now.

  • I only run Windows two ways:

    * For gaming on my dedicated gaming computer,

    * In a VirtualBox under Linux (for those few apps that are Windows-only).

    For gaming, maybe I should just switch to SteamOS.

    For the rest, I wonder if VirtualBox can spoof the Windows processor detection (lie and claim to be an older chip). I think in principle it absolutely can, but maybe the project doesn't want to invite trouble.

  • I have already blocked Microsoft from updating my Windows 7 machines. It's been a long time since Microsoft updates had anything good for the user.

  • Nobody will ever run Windows 7 on Ryzen since compatible motherboards will never be available.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of code." -- an anonymous programmer

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