Windows 10 Will Download Some Updates Even Over a Metered Connection (winsupersite.com) 327
Reader AmiMoJo writes: Until now Windows 10 has allowed users to avoid downloading updates over metered (pay-per-byte) connections, to avoid racking up huge bills. Some users were setting their ethernet/wifi connections as metered in order to prevent Windows 10 from downloading and installing updates without their permission. In its latest preview version of the OS, Microsoft is now forcing some updates necessary for "smooth operation" to download even on these connections. As well as irritating users who want to control when updates download and install, users of expensive pay-per-byte connections could face massive bills.
Really, Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
At what point do people get fed up and switch to something else?
Re:Really, Microsoft? (Score:4, Insightful)
Never.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell
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That's stupid. Of course there's something MS could do to drive people away from Windows.
Perhaps wholesale breaking of backward-compatibility might do it. Well, if there were a Linux desktop distro worth taking seriously as an alternative, at least (I admit I've not been keeping up on that front).
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At what point do people get fed up and switch to something else?
Don't know but I'm sure someone will sue M$ for using their telecoms expressly against the users permision
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> At what point do people get fed up and switch to something else?
I'm pretty sure Windows users will put up with anything.
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This is known as the Sunk Cost Fallacy. (Hint: That money is already gone.)
Sunk Cost Fallacy [youarenotsosmart.com]
How the Sunk Cost Fallacy Makes You Act Stupid [lifehack.org]
Sunk Cost [wikipedia.org]
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Most people find MATE-based Linux easier to learn than Windows 10, because, unlike Windows 10, Linux looks like the Windows they've used for decades.
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If it's already installed for them, then there isn't anything more to learn than they'd have to learn with Windows 10 anyway.
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If it's already installed for them, then there isn't anything more to learn than they'd have to learn with Windows 10 anyway.
If it is already installed for them....that's a major hurdle. Finding something other than Windows (or macOS) pre-installed is nigh impossible*, the exception being Chromebooks which seem to do well.
*yes I know of things like System76, or even the Dell computers, but the average person going into a Best Buy is not going to see them.
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It's not like the average person on the street is going to bother learning Linux.
So how is that different from average person on the street is not going to bother learning Windows? Most people only use the computer for web browsing and Firefox is Firefox, for the minority that do more LibreOffice is interchangable with Office for everybody except a minority of powerusers and for minscule number that don't use web-based email Kmail will work as well as outlook. Kubuntu is pretty much works automagically, even more than Windows.
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Re:Really, Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got the uncomfortable fact that nobody owes you anything and that you'll just have to deal with the reality of your situation.
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You're the idiot who keeps using that software. (Score:2, Insightful)
Try not being an idiot and change it. The reality of your situation is that you can act. You're just lazy or ignorant or prefer to just complain.
Tell your vendor that if they don't get off Windows onto Linux then you will leave as a customer. If there is no alternative AT ALL, then take another job. If your job required you to tongue wash the CEO's car every morning, you would leave. If you were self employed and the government regulation meant you were giving up all your money in taxes etc and paying for c
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Except that (assuming you don't know gfxguy's situation ahead of time) you have no idea whether that's actually true in this case.
For some work, there is simply no practical FOSS alternative.
Re:You're the idiot who keeps using that software. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're ever pissed off about how oil and power companies are ruining the environment, you can get rid of your car and get a bicycle.
You will have trouble getting to work, picking up the kids, buying groceries and getting around, but BY GEORGE you stuck to your principles and the oil and power companies ... didn't notice at all.
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Try Haiku. It is free, and much simpler than Linux. The fact that no software exists for it yet just means it's even easier to use.
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You also forgot the part where Apple will sell you old hardware and never drop prices either.
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Windows 7 still has about three years of "extended support" left, which includes security updates to Windows. Which software that you're required to use for work has dropped support for Windows 7 or 8.1?
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Right about now.... just last week an update broke my wifi driver. I actually rolled back to last week's acronis backup to get my PC working. So yeah, don't know if it is any better, but this morning I'm actually shopping mini-macs for the home PC. Getted damned tired of restarts that take 8 minutes. My tablet will (android and ipad) will both restart like nothing happened. Microsoft has really hosed themselves on this one!
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Mac is a mess with non-expandable hardware and an OS that has gotten nothing but half-assed "borrowed from the iPad" updates over the last few years.
Linux does not usefully run productivity hardware such as high speed scanners (yes, I've tried it, and no, the inability to do things like automatic page sizing means it is not usable). It also doesn't play well with gaming (even light gaming) quality GPUs without an awful lot of hassle.
I've used damn near everything on the desktop (Window
Re:Found the LUDDITE! (Score:4, Insightful)
Only LUDDITES hate automatic appdates because they're too stupid to know how to use apps! Modern app appers love automatic appdates because it lets them app even more apps while apping other apps!
Hmmm most other OS's automatic updates don't require hours of down time and often unexpected reboots. M$'s automatic update system could only be worse if it was designed by a government employee
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I'd be happier if the software on my computer would check for and download updates during my mostly unused bonus time, when it's convenient for me, rather than when it's convenient for Microsoft during my anytime data.
Of course required to keep Windows running smoothly. probably started out meaning required to keep Windows from turning your computer into a brick, but marketing will interpret that as "anytime we want to install more effective spyware or telemetery".
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Smooth running of advertising (Score:5, Interesting)
Do the 'vital' updates include new adverts with which to pester the user ?
Re:Smooth running of advertising (Score:5, Interesting)
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Of course they do.
Microsoft wants to be the new Google. ALL HAIL MICROSOFT.
I'm going to go throw up after that last comment....
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You don't have a choice. (Score:5, Insightful)
With Windows 10 you gave Microsoft control over their computer. If Microsoft wants their computer to act a certian way, it will act that way regardless as to the way you want it to act.
Don't like it? Install a different OS. Can't do that yourself? Learn how or find someone who can. Hardware won't let you? Buy better hardware. That's your fault for buying locked down hardware to begin with. Can't find non-locked down hardware? Learn how or find someone who can.
At this point Microsoft has made it perfectly clear who owns a computer that runs Windows 10: Microsoft.
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I opened file explorer the other day and it actually had an advert for MS cloud storage! Not a web browser pop-in, but wthin file explore. Amazing... they are really pissing off their retail customer base and I'm quite sure there's a reason our IT department hasn't upgraded everyone to 10 yet.
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Can't find non-locked down hardware? Learn how or find someone who can.
So here's my question to those Slashdot comment section users who can:
Which current 10" laptop models are currently recommended for running X11/Linux, with working Wi-Fi, webcam, screen brightness, and suspend, without presenting a "Please press Space then Enter to wipe everything" prompt at every boot that others won't know how to skip? Or must one just accept the increased bulk and weight of a 14" model from System76?
OS verification is OFF (Score:3)
Installing anything other than stock Chrome OS on a Chromebook requires first putting the Chromebook in developer mode. Whenever a Chromebook in developer mode is turned on, the firmware displays a 30-second interstitial warning to the effect "OS verification is OFF; press Space to enable OS verification". Pressing Ctrl+D closes the interstitial. Pressing Space instead warns the user that reenabling OS verification permanently deletes everything stored on the Chromebook, with Enter to confirm doing so.
F*** (Score:5, Insightful)
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I just got boned this weekend during some video editing by an UPDATING NOW...OOPS CRASHING!...RESTART...CRASH...RESTART...CRASH... sequence (...) Thank you Microsoft! May I have another?
if ( os() = win10 ) { while (you.gape() != goatse.gape() ) { fuck++; } ) }
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if ( os() = win10 ) { while (you.gape() < goatse.gape() ) { fuck++; } ) }
FTFY, don't want to get caught in an endless loop, especially one as dangerous as this
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Syntax Error: Invalid Left-hand side in assignment (os() = win10)
Not an error, that's them sneaking in the forced upgrade.
Good (Score:5, Interesting)
The people on metered connections, or those who care enough to set their non-metered connections to metered just to try to get some control, may finally be pushed to try something new. I'm always impressed at how well Mint has worked on any recent installs, and I haven't come across any showstoppers for my use. More users for Linux (and MacOS, but I don't really care about that).
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The people on metered connections, or those who care enough to set their non-metered connections to metered just to try to get some control, may finally be pushed to try something new.
Don't worry, they'll be sent back to Microsoft by the RTFM crowd and issues with gaming, miscellaneous required software and hardware support.
I'm always impressed at how well Mint has worked on any recent installs, and I haven't come across any showstoppers for my use.
Let me ask you this -- have you had to research your hardware first?
Last time (a few years ago, admittedly), I complained about issues getting WiFi in Ubuntu to work, I was told (here) that I should have researched my hardware better before trying to install.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Linux for work and for command line convenience. But as a personal computer ther
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You have clearly not used Linux or not used in a LONG time. I get better hardware support on Linux than I do on windows. About the only thing LInux doesn't support better than windows hardwarewise is hardware Dongles. Microsoft and manufacturers deliberately refuse to make drivers work with windows, I've got a perfectly functional scanner that won't work with anything newer than XP but works wonderfully on Linux.
With most newer hardware these days it's supported in Linux before it's even sold, often months
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I get better hardware support on Linux than I do on windows.
I guess it really depends on which particular make and model of laptop you have. Recent Ubuntu on an ASUS Transformer Book T100TA [jfwhome.com] still has broken suspend, broken camera, and broken Bluetooth.
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> Microsoft and manufacturers deliberately refuse to make drivers work with windows
The problem wasn't that they deliberately broke drivers. The problem was that Microsoft didn't follow the NT HAL paradigm with TWAIN.
When NT4 came out, Microsoft had a SERIOUS problem with lack of driver support for anything that resembled an imaging device. If you wanted imaging hardware that supported NT, you were stuck paying enterprise-level prices for it. The mainstream industry basically told Microsoft, "find a way t
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Let me ask you this -- have you had to research your hardware first?
If I were buying a new machine, I'd probably do some research. For a standard desktop, I wouldn't sweat it. The last laptop I installed Mint on was a few years old Sony which was given to me to dispose of by a co worker who was sick of Windows not working on it for her. I put in an SSD and ran the Mint install to see how it would work, and everything except the camera worked out of the box. I did a little googling and less than half an hour later that was working too. Would I want to tell my mom to get that
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I put in an SSD and ran the Mint install to see how it would work, and everything except the camera worked out of the box.
The distribution will also matter. There are too many out there.
I do consistently hear good things about Mint lately, so it will be first on the list to try.
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I would certainly recommend Mint; I have several friends who also have had good luck with it although one is having some driver issues syncing a Samsung phone. I like CentOS on servers but I think Mint is a better desktop.
I do remember the days of frustrating little issues which would take days of forum hunting to resolve (if I ever managed to), so I am very aware of what a minor miracle it is when everything Just Works.
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Now I just go and update Ubuntu every 6 months ;)
Why in the WORLD don't you put these end-users on an Ubuntu LTS? You must LOVE the extra work upgrading Ubuntu every six months rather than
every 5 YEARS....... I've put some elderly relatives/friends on Ubuntu, and I'd NEVER in my worst nightmare use anything but an LTS. Several of these
folks were originally put on 10.04 then upgraded to 12.04, and now they're on 14.04 EasyPeasy, only have to worry about it once every 4 or so years..
With a non-stop stream of (Score:2)
"WTF are they thinking!?" style news stories surrounding Win10, I have to ask...
Aside from gaming, is there ANYTHING Win10 does better than Win7? (and for the snark among you, I'm talking about a real advantage, not in regards to telemetry, spying, less control, etc.)
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I do like the flat UI
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Glad to know someone does! Most people I know really don't like the flat white look. It's quite hard on the eyes. I've found a couple of free themes that make things look a lot better. Sadly it's really hard to find good, free themes. A lot of nice ones are from cleodesktop, but they not free. And themes only work on certain builds, due to requiring hacks to the Windows theming dlls.
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I've had the pause and resume copy/moving come in handy several times. It's also much more resilient to network blips while moving things around thanks to that.
Directly mounting ISOs in virtual drives without needing PowerISO or other third party software is kind of cool.
I like the corner-snapping that windows can do now - I made a lot of use of the side by side and drap-to-top functionality, so the corner one is even better. Especially on today's big monitors.
Nothing earth-shattering, but nice little impro
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Task manager is finally functional, I'm not sure why it took them 20 years to get a functional task manager.
Power management in new CPUs (Score:2)
Unlike Windows 7, Windows 10 gets drivers for the power management features in newer CPUs, such as Kaby Lake and Ryzen.
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One up side (Score:5, Funny)
There is one real up side to this. Microsoft as you know only puts out small, efficient updates in the minimal needed package sizes. This should be great comfort to users on metered connections, they are only being lovingly graced with the minimum needed amount of bytes. Can you imagine if Microsoft was one of those companies that pushed out near-daily 100+MB behemoths to update a spelling error in notepad's FAQ? Luckily they don't do this, and we all win!
-Charlie
Note: Yes this is sarcasm. If you didn't get that by the 19th word, go play with some tiles.
Re:One up side (Score:5, Interesting)
That's probably what Microsoft is actually thinking. They recently introduced differential updates... Welcome to the 1980s... so that Windows Update patches are smaller. So they probably figured that they could now force them on people on metered connections.
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don't read it yet, its full of grammatical errors. Just wait till win11.
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Luckily he won't have to. The latest diff patch slated for April 1 should fix over 72% of those. It weighs in at a mere 73GB and is considered essential by Microsoft because an exec's husband wrote portions of it for the Bob project. Awfully caring of Microsoft to help out users like that.
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i think you are mistaken, April 1st is the release date of win11 hypervisor which lets you select the fully operational and supported version of windows of your choice. Sadly it only includes Vista 1.0, win95 1.0, and win10 as options.
April 1st 2020 is the release for win7 and winXP.
and before you go and say that you can do this already using linux or osX well... win11 doesn't require the internet to connect to the internet. the 73 GB is really a super compressed version of all the internet.
We control your OS, not you... (Score:3)
This isn't new. (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't new, I was pushed a few updates last year despite being set as metered.
Disable startup of the BITS and Windows Update services. I think I took away "System"'s execute privilige from them as well. Turn them back on according to your schedule to manually update.
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That's basically the way to go.
For now.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
You will obey Microsoft, resistance is futile... (Score:2)
... forcing some updates necessary for "smooth operation" to download even on these connections...
It seems that Microsoft really needs to keep those data harvesting operations running smoothly, as they may now be a source of revenue for Microsoft.
Ok MS you own ME $20 per meg so that 1GB updates (Score:2)
Ok MS you own ME $20 per meg (one of the highest roaming fees) so that 1GB update.
Costs you
Data = $20480
IRS paper work fees = $100
Bill pay fee = $10
Bank fees = $50
Thank God (Score:5, Funny)
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https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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I have a 448/96 kbps ADSL connection. I live so far from the DSLAM that literally nothing else is available.
I am thankful on a daily basis that I took so many steps to prevent Win10 from getting installed on either computer in this house, because those update sizes, at times I don't get to decide, would render the internet effectively unavailable. Last I heard was 4 GB of updates getting pushed at one time, to two computers ... yeah, that's three solid days of downloading.
If Microsoft pays for putting fiber
Just disable the update service (Score:2)
I had to do this on a computer running security camera software (very inconvenient if it reboots in the middle of a night due to an update). But you can do this if you just want to be in control of when your computer updates
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Why do you have critical infrastructure running on a desktop????
Come on guys (Score:2, Interesting)
The hate for MS is real. This isn't inherently a bad idea. If a 50K update patches a security hole that would allow someone to turn your computer into a member of a bot net, you'd be glad you got that update.
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Except when that 50kB patch puts you over your bandwidth limit for the month -- if you have a bandwidth limit -- and costs you "up to $100 at [the providers] discretion at any time". Quoted section from a large ISP for overage charges.
And that's assuming there was only one update for the entire month. There was a reason to set the ethernet connection to metered for many people.
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If your at the point where 50Kb will push you over, just turn off internet completely.
In any case you will always find someone negatively impacted by any change that affects millions (if not billions) of people.
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Joining a botnet would put you even further over your bandwidth limit for the month.
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Which is why Windows 10 makes it possible to pick which updates to install and when to install them!
Oh wait.
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"This isn't inherently a bad idea."
You do realize that some people's Internet costs dollars per megabyte, right? And they're probably in the middle of the freaking jungle, where they don't much care about some hole that might be exploited by ten-megabyte web ads, because they don't go anywhere near sites like that?
Microsoft are completely clueless about computers in the real world, which is why more and more people are trying to get away from them. My next Windows PC will basically be a $2000 game console,
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It's more about some port being open which is exploitable to attacks, maybe something like a bug in the system clock that will brick your computer on a certain date, or maybe they need to revoke a trusted cert.
No matter what you do, when you manage a system that is widely used, you will negatively impact someone.
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If you could control updates to your computer, your post would make sense. You would have
Option 1 - No updates
Option 2 - Metered connection, just small and security critical updates
Option 3 - Update at will.
But we live in a world where there is no Option 1, and nobody trusts Microsoft to actually use Option 2 as they claimed.
This sentence makes my ass twitch. (Score:4, Funny)
... forcing some updates necessary for "smooth operation" to download even on these connections ...
I have several ass-related jokes queued up, but can't decide which one I like best.
Inevitable (Score:2)
People use the feature for purposes other than intended
Feature removed.
What did everyone expect?
Fuck software (Score:5, Interesting)
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Love Ubuntu.. When I get offered updates on Ubuntu, *I* choose when to reboot, *if* a reboot is *even* necessary... Back when I still used Windows, it seemed like every damn update wanted a reboot... Soooo glad I don't have to worry about MS problems anymore...
Just do it. (Score:3)
It amazes me just how abusive Microsoft can make their products and still people will put up with it, keep using them and even buy more. After Windows 10 especially, I bet even Microsoft are surprised at how far they can abuse people and still get away with it.
Come on guys, just totally ditch Windows already. You already know you should. Just do it.
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Google comes to mind. Not sure why though, and that's the gist of it really - you can't be hurt by what you can't feel. Much like initial agencies snooping around secretively, indiscriminately.
enterpise desktops (Score:2)
Most large business 'fix' this problem by creating a different entry from the MS update server that lives on their local network. Allowing them to control when updates are pushed to their desktops. Why not use the host file to 'fix' this problem if you have metered connection.
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Why not use the host file to 'fix' this problem if you have metered connection.
Because you shouldn't have to. After being raped, would you suggest that the victim just keep a better brand of lube around? Or would you suggest that maybe the rapist needs to be in prison? Or barring that, maybe suggest that living in, "Rape City, USA" is a bad idea?
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Why not use the host file to 'fix' this problem if you have metered connection.
Because Windows has started to use a different resolver for "servicing" the operating system, such as updates and telemetry.
The abuse continues from Redmond... (Score:2)
Every few days I read yet another story about the abuse MS keeps heaping on the poor souls who, for whatever reason, still use Windows 10.. Part of me feels sorry for those who either *must* use Windows, for whatEVER reason, or those who just aren't aware of there being viable alternatives to Windows.. And part of my laughs my damn ass off at all the abuse that MS inflicts on their victims. I supported/used Windows for 20 years as a user and a sysadmin. During my career I also used Linux quite a bit, having
Canadian law arguably prohibits this (Score:3)
CASL, our anti-spam law, specifically requires informed consent before anyone installs anything on someone else's computer. There's a class action suitin the wings, waiting for "private right of action" to allow suits this summer.
The CRTC is the only organization that can lay charges, and you should see the rats scurrying around trying to keep the right to lay suits from coming into force (;-))
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Oh cool, you pay for me to have an unmetered connection available?
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
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No.
Fired out.
Of a cannon.
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Repeatedly.
Noooo, think of the poor guy that has to clean that cannon. Human garbage is really disgusting if mixed with gunpowder.
Re: Hi, we're Microsoft. (Score:2)