Pittsburgh Is Falling Out of Love With Uber's Self-Driving Cars (engadget.com) 82
A worn-out welcome: The city rolled out the red carpet as a host to Uber's driverless car experiments, but nine months later its mayor and residents have built up a list of grievances with the public-private partnership. From a report: While our experience in one of the autonomous vehicles was thankfully pretty safe, it wasn't long before reports of accidents and wrong-way driving began to surface during the first month of the operation. Nine months later, the relationship continues to sour, according to a report in the New York Times. The things Uber promised in return for the city's support -- including free rides in driverless cars, backing the city's $50 million federal transportation grant and jobs for a neighborhood nearby Uber's testing track -- have not materialized. The situation was an issue during the mayoral primary, too, with critics calling out incumbent Bill Peduto for not getting these agreements in writing from the ride-sharing company.
Uber not playing nice? (Score:5, Insightful)
A company who seems to actively seek out litigation, who's demonstrably not a team player, is not following through on their verbal commitments?
I'm shocked, SHOCKED.
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I'm shocked, SHOCKED.
Well not that shocked.
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It's a little shocking. You would think that the very low cost of Uber fulfilling it's promises would be worth it to them, for the goodwill and to show off that other cities should welcome them. And then screw over all the cities en masse once they can be kicked out of 1/2 and still get what they want. But they were short-term greedy.
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Yea, Uber established themselves as a lying company that doesn't follow the law or meet it's commitments at least two years ago. I'm shocked anyone would deal with them period at this point.
I think aggressive ticketing and confiscation of the uber cars would be in order.
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Driving my car is one of the only things I enjoy in life. Please don't take that away. My job is a nightmare, my wife is a witch and my kinds don't give me a second's peace. Literally the only time of the day I can get some peace and quiet is commuting to and from work. Of course a self-driving car might allow for bringing masturbation time into the mix, so maybe I spoke a little too soon here.
Kind of sounds like you need to make some changes in your life...
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"How exactly does the free market decide that they don't want something that isn't available yet?"
The free-market doesn't decide, it's a hyperbolic and ideologically motivated expression used to refer to commercial exchanges.
Re: Get over it, dorks (Score:1)
Whether people want them or not, at present (and for the forseeable future) fully autonomous vehicles are a fantasy. They can't deliver what doesn't exist. Conversely, Silicon Valley companies really need to stop pitching their imaginings as though they are accomplishments that have already been realized (i.e. Pitching vapor as inevitable). None of it moves anything forward, 'disruption' is a stupid phrase and an even worse guiding principle. Progress would be much more appropos, and is actually achievable.
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To be fair to Uber, they did pick one of the worst case scenario cities to be testing their cars in.
If you ever driven through Pittsburgh it's a literal mouse maze of exits and one way streets coupled with narrow windy roads and traffic patterns that would make anyone short of a Pittsburgh native insane.
The fact that they aren't wrecking the cars daily is an achievement in itself.
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Whether people want them or not, at present (and for the forseeable future) fully autonomous vehicles are a fantasy.
What about fax machines? Do you believe in them? Any other already-existing technology you prefer to deny the existence of? I used a toaster this morning, so you really can't have that.
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Your comment would carry a bit more "oomph" if fully autonomous cars had already hit the market and flopped, but they clearly haven't. Instead, what we have so far are half-implementations and "advanced cruise control", all of which have been headline features driving sales for the handful of cars that have them.
On the plus side, you're continuing the tradition of trolls who have denied the marketability of everything from PCs to the Internet to smartphones in the years immediately prior to their breakout s
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A) Most humans would fail to meet the bar you just set.
B) Nothing you said relates to the topic I was addressing (whether the market has declared the tech a flop).
C) You're conflating the repeated failures of one particular company for the failures of the industry as a whole.
What I keep hearing from these examples involving Uber is that Uber should not be testing self-driving cars, since they are demonstrating a history of ignoring warning signs and causing dangerous situations, first in California (e.g. th
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though they're being careful with the tests and the conditions under which they conduct them
Sure.. and even though they are testing in very controlled conditions, their drivers still need to take control frequently. All I am saying is, where is the government oversight to ensure to the public that we know where and how these are being tested? Why have companies not been forced to at least build a simulated town to test these in? If Google cars are not getting in accidents then fine, but they are still not being completely forthright about how safe they are. This is something that requires tran
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even though they are testing in very controlled conditions, their drivers still need to take control frequently.
You've got your statement backwards: the reason they take control frequently is because they are only testing in controlled conditions.
The world isn't uniformly filled with controlled conditions, so they take control anytime they enter conditions the system isn't yet designed or authorized to operate in (e.g. inclement weather, construction zone, power outage, unmapped shortcut, etc.). Each time they do, the current regulations in California dictate that it counts towards the same statistic that measures th
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That's per year. The average driver goes about fifteen years between crashes, so most of us will be involved in an accident at some point.
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For those who commute daily. Self Driving Cars is something that would be helpful, once safety concerns are managed. While I think that most jobs can be done from home, however businesses don't seem to trust their employees. The self driving Car and add an hour of me time to my life, where I can read a book, watch a show, or just rest my eyes.
Vs. having to drive with the sun glaring in your eyes, having to pay attention to things trying to kill you every second.
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Some people actually have to make physical items for their employment. Good luck on using that 20 ton drop forge press at your house or operating a major chemical processing plant. Or maintaining the infrastructure that "working from home" relies on.
Typical nerd who doesn't get that the shit gets done in the world by people getting up off their asses and actually DOING something beyond pressing keys on a keyboard.
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The free market has decided that it doesn't want self-driving cars.
"I don't like the idea of self-driving cars and I need to exaggerate and lie to make a point"
Do something useful for a change, like developing better ways to stop worms and ransomware.
"Hey, all you guys working on self-driving cars. Yeah, radar guy, mapping guy, all of you. You're anti-malware software peeps now. Tough shit. Shut the fuck up."
One question: are you 12?
A fiction analogy (Score:3, Interesting)
In the relationship between Uber and all of the other entities working on self-driving technology, I'm sort of reminded of the fictional work The Cryoptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. In the 1990s part of the story Goto Dengo represents the bulk of the entities trying to develop self-driving cars on their own, while Mr. Wing's part is played by Uber, trying to take without knowing/developing on one's own.
Now, obviously the backstory is entirely different, so the analogy entirely breaks-down if one looks at how the two entities started. That early relationship is more like Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan with Uber playing the role of Harding.
Re:Wrong way is normal for Uber (Score:4, Interesting)
I complained after an Uber driver made me late through his bad driving. Uber apologised that he failed to follow the optimal route offered by his GPS. They didn't seem to want to acknowledge my point that he went further than failing to follow his GPS, but went against three no entry signs and drive the wrong way up a single lane one way road.
Pretty much.
I had an Uber driver leave as I was reaching for the door handle. The time limit for idling-for-customer had been exceeded. OK, true, but my GF was talking to him for the prior three minutes. And the ride we wanted to take was a lo-o-o-ong one. He figured that he would just collect his $10 'no-show' fee, and find another ride in a minute or two. I requested a Lyft, and that person got the long fare. RE the 'no-show' fee: I sorted it all out via email w/Uber, and the driver did not receive the $10 in free money.
Another time, I was in a Lyft. The driver and I were talking about how Uber doesn't do sufficient background checks, and will basically take anyone on as a driver. I noticed a car driving erratically nearby, noted it, and my Lyft driver wisely passed him to get away. Within 100 feet, at a standard-traffic-flow stop-light, the Uber driver rear-ended my Lyft-driver's car. Yes, literally! No injuries, so we went on our way, but what a serendipitous demonstration of how bad Uber drivers can be – just when the topic comes up...
Also, their CEO is a combative dickhead.
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AC makes an excellent point...
Curious as to whether either driver was insured to drive commercially.
Because if not, your insurance would have been on the hook for the medical bills you apparently got lucky to avoid.
(and worse- your insurance may NOT have been on the hook leaving you naked to the bills).
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/facepalm
You do not 'wisely' pass erratic drivers to get away from them. You stay behind them.
See your story as an example of why you should not do this.
Many accidents are avoidable. Even tho the Lyft driver was not at fault, the Lyft driver could have avoided the accident entirely.
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/facepalm
You do not 'wisely' pass erratic drivers to get away from them. You stay behind them.
I agree with you... under normal circumstances. I skipped some details for brevity.
We were approaching a five-lane (each way) intersection with heavy traffics. Lyft driver got past the dangerous Uber driver, and did his best to avoid the apparent intended direction of the Uber guy, and got three lanes over to the left to avoid his path, passing a backed-up lane of traffic to do so, and effectively wall-off the Uber guy from getting behind us. The Uber guy must have hit the brakes hard, and then swerved
Chris Sacca is a real asshole. (Score:1)
I remember watching an episode of Shark Tank and Chris Sacca got into it with Mark Cuban with some anti-Capitalist garbage about how it was government services and not businesses that really provide for people. What an altruist, right? Later in the episode, he let it slip that as soon as the technology allows, Uber's going to dump all their drivers for the automatons. Chris Sacca thinks he's got street creed as an anti-Capitalist, but he's nothing more than a straight, garden variety one-percenter asshol
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Rewatch Milton Friedman videos and see why gov't promises of utopia end up poorly. See Venezuela as one of the latest examples.
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Of what...a victim of capitalist imperialism and market manipulation? Chavez lifted millions of people out of abject poverty. Rich and bourgeois shitbags naturally took offense, as they are used to all economic gains flowing to their coffers, at the expense of the vast majority of the population.
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SMH
Enough with "self-driving" (Score:2)
Re:Enough with "self-driving" (Score:5, Funny)
I'll start taking AI seriously if/when I encounter an automated phone answering system that functions half as well as a high-school dropout receptionist nursing a hangover.
Tiny violins (Score:2)
We need more tiny violins! Stat!
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Driving down one way streets is normal for Pittsburgh. I've only ever seen the self driving cars in the strip district.
Ahhh the Bribes (Score:2)
"Ford has reportedly invested $1 billion in a Pittsburgh-based self-driving car startup, which could meet more of the city's need for written agreements and data sharing"
I wonder if that came with
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It probably was, but I have no idea why Pittsburgh shouldn't support a local company that brings a $1 billion into the city, shares its data, and will help lobby for pro-Pittsburg spending in Washington. That is, it seems to be doing good for the citizens of Pittsburgh. So, good for them!
Also, seriously, fuck Uber. I prefer Ford to Uber.
farewell uber (Score:2)
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DOT will need to set standards for map data format (Score:4, Insightful)
DOT will need to set standards for
* Map data formats
* smart traffic light systems
* road markings
* parking lot markings
* define who is liable
* rules to say that all logs / source codes must be given up in a court case or the manufacturer is 100% liable.
Rules for the systems.
* Minimum Free update times for software / maps at least 5-8+ years and by free that means with bigger hdd's / new cpus are needed then they must be installed free of change.
* free data (entertainment does not need to be part of this) with fringe roaming covered.
* no forced dealer service and no locking of 3rd party lights / batterys / oil changes / etc.
Re:DOT will need to set standards for map data for (Score:5, Interesting)
Map makers want to have exclusivity on maps (copyright), so they'll continue to put weird data into the maps.
What we actually need is federally funded programs to make accurate maps, and use DOT registration and testing fees to help pay for it. Because ultimately it's the car industry that benefits from proper maps, and the public who benefits from cars that do not drive the wrong way down the street.
(yeah, I know this will make heads explode in the libertarian groupthink)
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"Libertarian groupthink"? - I am not part of any group. What *I* think is that it is completely unnecessary, is a waste of money and as such is another power grab. Government is not needed to map areas and roads, this is done privately every day by phones, GPS navigators installed in vehicles, will be done with drones, with other personal devices. But as I said I am not part of any group, sure thing you will get your oppressive desire granted, governments do not need encouragement where it comes to such
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LOL
But seriously, you don't find it troubling that we depend on maps containing work arounds that are done in order to copyright maps by inserting fictional data. This is done because maps of reality are facts and not creative works, but the maps you are using in your phone, GPS, etc are not strictly a map of reality but a fictions place created for the sake of copyright enforcement.
There are lots of ways to fix this. Industry leaders could combine their resources to make public maps and use trademark law t
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Gee, I didn't know Musk had been launching rockets that long.
Here's a hint, junior[1], if you are going to make a case for the superiority of private industry, don't mention examples that rely heavily on government-created infrastructure. It kind of undercuts your point.
[1] Anyone who is so aggressively dumbass libertarian as you is either a teen who just read Atlas Shrugged, or stuck in the mental age of one.
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Here is a hint for you, use whatever is available at the time.
GPS is available so use it, whether or not GPS is available without government intervention. Without government destroying lives and wealth on wars (wars being large part of the reason for GPS deployment) the private industry would just as well provide GPS or similar solutions at the pace of private industry untouched by government caused conflicts and destruction.
By the way positioning systems can be built without space based GPS altogether, ju
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And if the moon were made of green cheese...
Like I said, go back to your basement and ask Mum for a biscuit. There's a good boy.
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There's already a federally funded database for such data, TIGER.
https://www.census.gov/geo/map... [census.gov]
Early versions of Google Maps (after leaving NavTEQ and TeleAtlas), used the TIGER database and had weird problems where their own office (Irvine, CA) address was actually showed it being on the wrong block. TIGER address is what suppose to be not what it's actually is once the local government gets done with an area. A better funded TIGER would go greatly into pushing innovation in this space. GIS data is bein
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Why should a road-proven autonomous system require new computing hardware? Why bigger hard drives?
as you don't want the car manufacturers to say after 2-3 years your car is too old buy a new car or buy an $5000 computer update + labor at the dealer ship.
free data is need so that ford can't say you must use ATT data to be to use this car.
You don't want lack of map updates to lead to a crash with lot's of finger pointing on who is at fault.
getting them signed? (Score:2)
Contract law (Score:2)
I'm not a lawyer, but if you're a city you should get these businesses to sign contracts that agree to terms. If in the end they refuse to fulfill the terms of the agreement, then suing for damages or settlement are in order.
If businesses want to make promises but not put them in a contract form, then you should ignore those statements as a lot of hot air and should not include them in your evaluation.
However, one high-profile pastor near Uber's test track said that he'd given Uber a list of potential candidates for jobs at the site, but was told to send them through the regular job portal.
I doubt there was anything in writing that stated they have to hire a certain number of local people, or pr
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With a company like Uber, that's not enough. You need to have money put in escrow.
Uber will likely stiff you on the contract as well.
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Does Uber have teflon lawyers? Maybe municipal governments should just stay the hell away from making deals with them.
Like everything Uber does (Score:2)
It's a damn scam! Is there anything this company does that is actually legal and legit? It wouldnt surprise me if the wrecks weren't into Lyft vehicles and deliberate.