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Mozilla Transportation United States Politics

Mozilla Employee Denied Entry To the United States (gizmodo.com) 420

Reader Artem Tashkinov writes: Daniel Stenberg, an employee at Mozilla and the author of the command-line tool curl, was not allowed to board his flight to the meeting from Sweden—despite the fact that he'd previously obtained a visa waiver allowing him to travel to the US. Stenberg was unable to check in for his flight, and was notified at the airport ticket counter that his entry to the US had been denied. Although Mozilla doesn't believe that the incident is related to Trump's travel ban, the incident stirred fears among international tech workers, who fear they'll miss out on work and research opportunities if they're not allowed to travel to the US. The situation even caught the eye of Microsoft's chief legal officer Brad Smith, who tweeted at Stenberg to offer legal assistance.
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Mozilla Employee Denied Entry To the United States

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:23AM (#54713075)
    As the US moves towards isolation and protectionism with both its immigration and tariff plans, it may turn into another hermit kingdom clone of DPRK and you could see states like Russia or China move to preeminence in world affairs, with Trump presiding over a culturally homogeneous but irrelevant and poverty stricken country.
    • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:28AM (#54713123) Journal

      I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever. The potential damage to the US economy is enormous. The Republicans just have to figure out how to utterly fuck the Administration over while still looking like they're on the President's side.

      • by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:35AM (#54713183)

        I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever.

        Well the cynic in me thinks that in order for it to stop, Congress would have to *act*. There's been a whole lot of *not acting* going on in Congress as of late, and I'm perplexed as to why an economic downturn would induce that to suddenly change. Considering the most recent AHCA version to come out of the Senate, it doesn't seem like they care if the citizens die, so economic hardship should be the least of their worries. Even if it's industry that's hurting, it's not GOP industry hurting.

        • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:43AM (#54713269) Journal

          A lot of that "none-acting" has been tactical. Look at health care. It's clear that neither House or Senate Republicans are really all that keen to further health care reform, at least not until after the 2018 mid-terms. So they put together legislation that they can't even convince a majority of their peers to support (let alone the Democrats), and which clearly is deeply unpopular with voters (the House bill had an approval rating of just 27%, and I can't imagine the Senate bill is going to be any more popular).

          What it looks like to me is that Republican lawmakers know they have an unsuitable man in the White House, but political realities mean they can't be obstructionist in the same way they were with Obama, or in the way they intended to be with Clinton. Instead of being angrily and righteously obstructionist, they're just going to create a series of situations in which nothing much happens at all. They'll shake the President's hand, they'll praise him in the media, they'll keep up the appearances of being one big happy party, and meanwhile do everything in their power to keep that idiot from completely fucking things up.

          • by Dorianny ( 1847922 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:47PM (#54713835) Journal
            That's because what is being pushed thru is not "health care reform" but a partial rollback of the ACA reform. The math is difficult for the GOP in the Senate because there is around 30 senators from States that didn't expand Medicaid and would like funding cut to the program immediately and around 20 from states that did expand Medicaid and will see the vast majority of the expected 22 million looses insurance coverage. Of course Trump going from celebrating on the White House lawn, to calling it "mean" is not helping things much
            • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @03:31PM (#54715069)

              That's because what is being pushed thru is not "health care reform" but a partial rollback of the ACA reform.

              The current bills in the House and, more so, the Senate are more about cutting taxes, almost entirely benefiting the wealthy, than anything having to do with actual heath care, to allow conservative tax reform, also almost entirely benefiting the wealthy, to proceed using special procedural rules known as reconciliation [wikipedia.org] to pass changes with a simple majority vote and avoid a Democratic filibuster. "Legislation cannot add to the deficit outside the customary 10-year budget window and be eligible for this procedural protection."

              This is why Congress started with health-care "reform" before tax reform - to save money in the budget on the former so it can be squandered on the latter.

        • The Senate is sluggish to vote on the AHCA. Obamacare is Obamacare, and Obama is evil. If you repeal the evil Obamacare and suddenly have a recession and terrible access to healthcare, you prove that Obama was sent by God to fix America and should definitely be crowned Emperor but we can't. It would be fatal for the Republicans, at least for about 20 years. Maybe they should have thought about that before campaigning so hard they had to label it with Obama's name.

          by the way, that's coming in a few mo

      • by MAXOMENOS ( 9802 ) <mike@mikesmYEATS ... n.com minus poet> on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:52AM (#54713329) Homepage

        I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever.

        What exactly do we expect for Congress to do? Let's be clear here: I despise Trump, but in all likelihood, this is INS bullshit unrelated to the Trump executive order. The EO only covers six countries; Sweden isn't one of them. Even if Sweden was one of them, Stenberg has a clear relationship with a US Company. So the real question is, does Stenberg have a valid work visa? Most of the people I hear being denied entry into the US are denied because they had a paying US gig and got the wrong kind of visa. The other possibility is that Stenberg made political remarks that the US government doesn't like, and, unfortunately, the US government has denied entry to persons for that reason for decades.

        • by Dahan ( 130247 ) <khym@azeotrope.org> on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:09PM (#54713521)

          Even if Sweden was one of them, Stenberg has a clear relationship with a US Company. So the real question is, does Stenberg have a valid work visa? Most of the people I hear being denied entry into the US are denied because they had a paying US gig and got the wrong kind of visa

          I think the summary and article make it clear that he doesn't have a work visa; he was trying to enter through the visa waiver program. And I agree that the lack of work visa is probably the issue--you can enter through the VWP or on a B-1 business visitor visa [state.gov] to attend a business meeting if you're employed by a foreign company and are not being paid by a US company. But Stenberg's a (presumably paid) employee of Mozilla. IANAIL and all that, but my understanding is that since he's being paid by a US company, coming to the US for a meeting with that company is considered work, and he's no eligible for VWP or a B-1 visa.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward

            And this isn't that big a deal. When I worked for ATI (Canadian company) as part of one of the US-based subsidiaries, we all had to get Canadian work visas. Well, initially no one did that and it was fine, just say the trip was for "business meetings". But then we had one guy that was going there a ton, as he now had direct reports in Canada, and I guess the Canadian immigration folks took notice. Pretty sure he was denied entry, after which we all had to get work visas.

            Whatever one thinks about the tra

        • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

          The EO only covers six countries; Sweden isn't one of them. Even if Sweden was one of them, Stenberg has a clear relationship with a US Company.

          Mozilla starts with "Mo". It's clearly an abbreviation of "Mohammed-Zilla". They're clearly an evil jihadi terrorist organization.

      • Congress won't fix it so you can get into the U.S.? Microsoft knows what to do: Better call Saul.

      • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:09PM (#54713519)

        I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever

        You can't? Considering no one in the Republican-controlled Congress has a backbone and as a result, are failing in their Constitutional duties, it is quite easy to seem them cowering like the cowards they are and letting this go on.

        The potential damage to the US economy is enormous.

        Which is what I'm hoping for. Yes, you read that right. I want damage to the U.S. economy because of the con artist's incompetence. Then we get to hear more of his deflections about it not being another of his failures, how it's not his fault the economy tanked, how it's Obama's fault, how Hillary would have been worse, how everyone else is to blame except him. It will be a classic case of malignant narcissism [psychologytoday.com] on full display.

      • Well Republicans aren't going to do anything about Trump because they as individuals don't want to be seen by their local constituents as being a traitor. (they might lose the primaries the next time around).

        The Democrats aren't going to do anything about Trump (there's a reason they haven't been pushing for an indictment) because the longer Trump is in power the more seats they stand to gain as a party.

        Democrats don't want Trump gone because he helps their party win swing states in the next election. Rep

    • by LubosD ( 909058 )

      Regardless of the fact that I don't like Trump, I really don't think a travel ban on a few semi-working countries is going to do any real harm to the US.

      • by arth1 ( 260657 )

        Regardless of the fact that I don't like Trump, I really don't think a travel ban on a few semi-working countries is going to do any real harm to the US.

        Other countries and their citizens notice. Including gaffes like this, which apparently isn't related to Trump but still is denying someone for no apparent reason, or at least not any reason the US is willing to disclose.
        The signal that's sent is that nobody should rely on being able to visit the US, and if any meeting between people is important, to do it somewhere else. That, I think, is harmful to the US.

        • by LubosD ( 909058 )

          Yes, I did notice and I understand the reasons.

          I don't think it affects my ability to visit the US. There's a big difference between my (European) country and some middle eastern mess of a country.

          I know TFA deals with another European being denied travel, but at the moment we know nothing about the reasons (it could as well be a system failure somewhere).

  • by SensitiveMale ( 155605 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:26AM (#54713095)

    I don't like, I'm going to say "fuck it" and link them anyways.

  • Sweden (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:28AM (#54713121)

    So he's traveling from Sweden, which has nothing to do with the travel ban. So why does the article keep mentioning the travel ban?

    • Re:Sweden (Score:4, Insightful)

      by d3bruts1d ( 639027 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:33AM (#54713159)
      Because Gizmodo has become overly political since the fall of Gawker.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        That they are. Take a look at the race baiting article from ProRepublica they published that was mentioned here a few hours ago.
        Gizmodo is working it's way up there with Salon, Mother Jones, MIc, and a few others. Ars Technica is getting a bit political these days too.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Baloroth ( 2370816 )

      Because otherwise there'd be no story (actually, there is no story, but that doesn't stop journalists from writing one). The US, like every other country in the world, has immigration controls, which are handled by individual agents who have the ability to allow or deny just about anyone (aside from US citizens, who cannot be denied entry) for just about any reason, because non-citizens have no right to entry. Of course, they rarely do so as long as you have the right visa/waivers/come from a country with t

      • Re:Sweden (Score:5, Insightful)

        by david_thornley ( 598059 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:04PM (#54713457)

        No, there is a story. Person in Sweden going to the US on routine business, having presumably done the appropriate paperwork, is denied entry. This is bad.

        The only reason international meetings happen is to get people from other countries. For this to happen, potential attendees have to have a high degree of conference that they can get to them. If this becomes dubious for meetings in the US, such meetings will not happen in the US, which hurts assorted people in the US, including the business community and the scientific community.

        • Re:Sweden (Score:5, Informative)

          by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @12:50PM (#54713857) Homepage Journal

          It has already had an impact [ietf.org].
          For those who won't bother to follow the link, Mark Nottingham said of QUIC meetings:

          2) We won't hold any further interim meetings in the US, until there's a change in this situation. This means that we'll either need to find suitable hosts in Canada or Mexico, or our meeting rotation will need to change to be exclusively Europe and Asia.

        • No, there is a story. Person in Sweden going to the US on routine business, having presumably done the appropriate paperwork, is denied entry. This is bad.

          There is more to being admitted to the US than just "doing the appropriate paperwork". You can do all the paperwork you want, but all that does is get you into the system. If your name triggers a review, you can still be denied entry. There is no story here.

          Why was this guy denied? Who knows. Maybe his name and other details matched another person's too closely, and the other person has a felony criminal record or other disqualifying issue.

          The story here is that the US still has control of its borders an

    • So he's traveling from Sweden, which has nothing to do with the travel ban. So why does the article keep mentioning the travel ban?

      Right or wrong, this is a reminder that security means collateral damage. More security means more false-positives. So there is a relationship.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by 0xdeadbeef ( 28836 )

        security means collateral damage

        No, security *theater* guarantees collateral damage.

        Just as the Muslim^H^H refugee^H^H travel ban is nothing more than pandering to his slaw-jawed supporters, this is almost certainly a fuck-up by some over-eager Customs agent who discovered an excuse to wield a little power. Actual security has nothing to do with either situation.

    • Seriously - he should publish some dirt on some banksters and then he'll get a free private flight from Sweden to the US on an unmarked white jet.

    • Possibly because it's part of a larger picture that includes the traveler ban, possibly because the reporting's bad.

  • by FeelGood314 ( 2516288 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:29AM (#54713133)
    The wireless alliance I belong to had a meeting 6 years ago in Canada. A Mexican worker who lived in the USA, who repeatedly asked before hand if there would be any issue, was denied entry. We haven't had a meeting in Canada since.

    When you consider the major cost to events like these is the time of the engineers, hassles like missing key people or having to scramble to get a 3rd implementer of feature X suddenly cost more than flying to a nice country where the immigration isn't a bunch of assholes. Cuba would be nice if they had better internet.
  • The author of curl denied entry by airport employees that were informed...probably by curl. Think about it.
  • So, will Mozilla (and other multinational organisations) stop holding their all employee meetings in the USA and instead choose a place with a better admissions policy?

    Come on, Americans: time to get on an international flight to meet up with the world, instead of us having to run the CBP gauntlet every time.

    • Same thing, in your case people may be refused re-entry in the USA after their international employee meeting...

      • Easy solution: move your main operations outside the US.

      • Only if they are not citizens. Every country has to take back their citizens. Of course what they do with them after taking them in is another matter, so depending on the country and circumstances they may be for example imprisoned :)

  • I'm going with a low level employee in the visa waiver checking department (Section 7G?) who had a long queue of waivers and wanted to go out to Joe's going away lunch. They either came back buzzed from a few beers or checked "DENY" on all the visas in the queue so they wouldn't miss the lunch.

    This country is going to hell in a handbasket, and it's not all Trump's fault (though he's certainly doing his part). Can you imagine today's USA putting forth the kind of effort and sacrifice that won WWII? Well,

    • by nicolaiplum ( 169077 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:45AM (#54713283)

      Note that his ESTA was approved, then rescinded. Someone specifically went to withdraw his approval after it was issued. That is not lazy non approval, that is malicious retroactive denial.

  • by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:45AM (#54713279)

    Only Canada is a visa-free country with respect to the US. Visitors from Europe need a visa, but it can be "waived" in many cases when it is obvious that the person would have been granted a visa. A waiver can be denied for many benign reasons. In that case, he just needs to apply for a visa.

    My guess is that this is either employment related (i.e., they are concerned that he is carrying out paid work in the US on a visitor visa), or that it is some legal issue on the Swedish side.

    • by Dahan ( 130247 )

      My guess is that this is either employment related (i.e., they are concerned that he is carrying out paid work in the US on a visitor visa), or that it is some legal issue on the Swedish side.

      Yeah, I suspect it's employment-related. If he were an employee of a foreign company, he could enter via the VWP or on a B-1 to come to a business meeting. But he's an employee of a US company, so I'm pretty sure he needs an actual work visa to come for a business meeting with that company. As the author of cURL, he might be able to get an O-1A (for individuals with an extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business, or athletics (not including the arts, motion pictures or television industry)).

  • Exactly was is this meeting that it warrants being called 'the meeting'. Sounds like a boondoggle anyway.
  • by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:52AM (#54713327)
    Unless that guy has the most Jewish and Western European sounding name ever for a citizen of Iran, Iraq and the other countries on the ban, it's not related. Citizens of about 40 countries, including the vast majority of European countries, are allowed visa free travel to the USA. Apparently we now make citizens of those countries apply for an ESTA which basically is advance approval that they'll be allowed into the US. This system should avoid the problem of having people fly into the US and being denied entry at the airport. Nobody wants that. Stenberg's ESTA was denied but for privacy reasons nobody can comment on why. It could be a mistake. It could be that he did something that raised the ire of the US government (maybe he has a lot of friends in a country the USA doesn't like). Maybe he's very anti-US on social media. Don't know. I wish his lawyers luck. Yeah. Having a lawyer fight this is totally going to be successful (sarcasm there). Eventually it will come out what his problem is. Don't be surprised if, for example, he's been a complete jerk on social media towards the USA or somebody in the government and it came back to haunt him.
    • Don't be surprised if it was an arbitrary action either. And don't be surprised if businesses start moving out of the US so employees can reliably visit the main business location.

  • by TheCowSaysMoo ( 4915561 ) on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:57AM (#54713393)

    Get past all the political mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with the situation and read the last sentence, which comes from a Customs and Border Protection spokesperson: "“Please know that we process 1.2 million people every day—around 700 are denied entry for various reasons. Having an approved ESTA does [not] guarantee a foreign national free entry into the US All travelers including those coming from visa waiver countries must clear all 60 grounds of inadmissibility.”

    So, this guy is one of 700 people who are daily denied entry for NOTHING related to Trump's travel ban, but because he has a Twitter account and is a Mozilla employee, "AHHHH!!! TRUMP TRAVEL BAN!!! AHHHH!!! IT'S GOING TO GET EVERYBODY!!! AHHHH!"

    In other news, water is wet.

  • Someone googled him, found out about the curl connection, googled curl and found out "curl | sudo" is a security risk. NO SECURITY RISKS ENTER ON MY WATCH. (yes, this is sarcasm)

Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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