Tesla Factory Reportedly Described As a 'Predator Zone' By Female Employees (theverge.com) 389
An anonymous reader shares a report: Tesla's Fremont factory was described by a female employee as a "predator zone" of harassment in a meeting attended by dozens of employees, according to a bombshell report in The Guardian. Other women recalled being catcalled by male employees, feeling unsafe around male managers, and being subjected to sexist comments by their superiors, the report states. For months, The Guardian has been tracking the case of AJ Vandermeyden, a former Tesla engineer who sued the electric automaker for "unwanted and pervasive harassment." In her suit, Vandermeyden alleges that she and other female employees were denied promotions, paid less than their male peers, and retaliated against after making their concerns known to human resources. Several months after making her claims publicly, Vandermeyden was fired by Tesla.
If you think it's bad at Tesla (Score:4, Funny)
You should see what's going on at SpaceX. Women there are forced to build products shaped like penises. Oh my!
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How unfair to the female workers, forced to work there and wear and contribute to such a sexist emblem.
Perhaps they all need to go work at Vulva...err....Volvo. That place seems much more feminist friendly for our gyno-american section of the workforce.
We had the solution in the 1990's... (Score:2)
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Sounds like it won't be enough unless they have a "how not to be a raging dickhead" training.
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Sounds like it won't be enough unless they have a "how not to be a raging dickhead" training.
That's why managers have to keep going to sensitivity training every week until their department changes. Most dickheads will do anything to avoid attending sensitivity training. Some might even change their ways.
Misleading summary (Score:5, Informative)
Oh the evil misogynist corporation trying to silence the victim?
No
She was fired because 'a neutral, third-party expert'
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She was fired because 'a neutral, third-party expert' ... concluded her complaints were unmerited. ... according to Tesla, that is.
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I'd be less worried about the legion and more about the lawyers in the wrongful-dismissal case that will follow.
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THE ENTIRE SJW LEGION will be fact checking such statements.
So, the evil SJWs like facts? That's absurd. Us Freedom Warriors don't need anything as progressive as facts to support our case.
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That is, fact checking would still be the first step in the process.
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See also: Climate change, vaccines
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Other women recalled being catcalled by male employees, feeling unsafe around male managers, and being subjected to sexist comments by their superiors, the report states
It's also the tagline under the headline of the second story:
"A female engineer who came forward with claims of harassment says she was fired in retaliation. But now other women have voiced similar concerns."
"Merk42 didn't read the summary. Don't be like Merk42. Read the summary" :-)
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The Vandermeyden part is the misleading part, that's why I specifically mentioned that part and not the rest.
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Predator Zone? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Predator Zone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Except labor laws prohibit certain forms of harrassment at work even if they don't constitute criminal behavior.
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That's an interesting theory, but catcalling coworkers will get you fired nearly anywhere. Tesla should crack down on that shit.
Re:Predator Zone? (Score:4, Informative)
If you are criminally harassed, record and call the cops.
Since it's a civil case, not a criminal one, I'm sure you meant "lawyers" instead of "cops".
So yeah, that's what's happening, but you seem cross about it.
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To be frank, it probably has... in fact, probably more often than not.
The reason you don't hear about it is because the people who are busy actually *following* what their scriptures actually say about how to treat other people, you know... "love your neighbor as yourself" and all that shit, aren't typically going around causing harm to anyone else.
And it's hardly inconceivable in that context that their belief system and their belief in God plays a significant role in the formation of how they treat o
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In ancient mythology Jesus was the son of (a) god. ...
So I guess it is a question of parent/child relationship if he was god/father fearing, or if he simply loved him.
I think I read something regarding Jesus that had something to do with love
It is an auto plant (Score:5, Insightful)
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It always seems to be these libertarian styled companies that have the biggest issues with treating women like shit nowadays.
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How exactly is a company that was established almost 15 years ago, a kind of a startup?
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Compared to the next oldest car company they are. The last time an American car maker went public was Ford in 1956. The last time a major US car company that still exists was founded was 1925 (Chrysler), though some may argue about the fact that Chrysler is now owned by Fiat (founded in 1899). By comparison, Tesla is certainly a start-up.
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Given they make cars... (Score:2)
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say it's more of a highway to someplace dangerous... perhaps then a Highway to the Danger Zone?
When did this happen? (Score:2)
Some of you guys have some serious problems.
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October 5, 1997
Startup growing pains? (Score:4, Interesting)
I already see a million comments from the crowd who dismisses all these complaints as "SJW BS." However, there is a pattern of startups ignoring bad behavior of some "rockstars." If proven to be true, that incident with Uber was pretty blatant -- having a female employee receive a request for...companionship...on her first day from her boss. I'm sure Tesla isn't far from its roots as a startup in terms of HR maturity either. They may be pretty far away from some one-trick phone app startup, but this is a culture thing that doesn't change unless there's external pressure to do so.
It doesn't even have to be a startup; I've worked at established companies where top salespeople get automatic passes on all the sexual harassment rules -- their management is willing to deal with the fallout to keep this salesperson producing. Watching some of these latent lawsuits in action is interesting, and the anti-SJW crowd can't just pretend it doesn't exist or that female employees receiving this treatment are all too sensitive. Whether it's the "neckbeard creeper" sort of stalking harassment, or the "ex-fratboy" overt kind -- if I were a woman I wouldn't be too happy with having to put up with either.
Great, another propaganda piece (Score:5, Insightful)
Yikes, so much wrong with this.
Title says "Tesla Factory Reportedly Described As a 'Predator Zone' By Female Employees", but the first sentence says "Tesla's Fremont factory was described by a female employee...". So which one is it? Plural is quite different from singular.
Then, there's the story (I'm not even gonna touch the Verge crap, we all know it's an identity politics rag at this point). Let's see.
The theme for this year’s International Women’s Day was “be bold for change” in the fight for a “more gender inclusive world” – but some at Tesla had a different plan for the day.
Five seconds in, and we already know the author is an "I know what's best for everyone" type keyboard warrior. This does not bode well for objectivity.
It was an opportunity for women to discover essential oils. A “health and wellness group” at the electric car company invited female staff members to an 8 March “lunch ‘n learn” about oils and how they can help improve people’s “health and happiness”, according to emails seen by the Guardian, which reveal that the proposed event was quickly met with vocal criticism.
Starting off great with some outrage that women were offered a 'lunch 'n learn' about oils. It's a well known fact that women don't like such things, that's why there's no market for female skin care products or wellness products. But hey, don't let a multi-billion dollar market get in the way of your feminism, you know what's best for everyone. Stay strong.
Tesla postponed the oils session. The company organized a town hall meeting on diversity for that day, which included six male executives and one woman, according to multiple attendees.
Note that there weren't 7 women executives attending, which is how a correctly diversified workplace should look. If they're all black, that's even more diverse. Diversity means fewer dicks in well-paid positions (but screw coal mining and construction, those places are dangerous!). Also note that this point is according to multiple attendees, but doesn't mention if Vandermeyden is included.
At the crowded meeting at the Fremont factory, women took the microphone one-by-one and shared stories of sexual harassment, mistreatment by male managers, unfair promotion decisions and more, sources said.
Now suddenly, "sources said". It's no longer Vandermeyden? The author doesn't mention other people coming forward here...
Vandermeyden, who attended the meeting, thought the outpouring of comments validated her own story.
Oh, I guess we're back to Vandermeyden.
Testimony from the town hall – along with internal emails from Musk, and Vandermeyden’s first interview since her termination – paint a picture of a company that has struggled to respond to mounting complaints about gender discrimination and has aggressively attempted to discredit a woman who publicly criticized it .
Testimony from the Town Hall... according to Vandermeyden? This is starting to sound very fishy. Almost as if there's only a single source for the "sky is falling" claims.
Musk was not at the meeting, which was attended by roughly 70-100 people, and featured comments from more than 20 women, according to Vandermeyden and another attendee.
Ahh, so there it is. Vandermeyden and another attendee. Wait, why is the other attendee only mentioned now? Does that mean that the other attendee only validated this one thing? That there were "more than 20" women attending?
One woman described parts of the factory as a “predator zone” for harassment. When the moderator asked women in the room if they had ever been catcalled, a significant number of women raised their hands, according to Vander
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Yikes, so much wrong with this.
Title says "Tesla Factory Reportedly Described As a 'Predator Zone' By Female Employees", but the first sentence says "Tesla's Fremont factory was described by a female employee...". So which one is it? Plural is quite different from singular. ...
The whole thing sounds eerily familiar. Attention-seeking woman with no particular skills of her own levels accusations of misogyny against a group of male nerds, and is promptly backed by hit pieces written by obviously wildly biased excuses for journalists who also happen to be well-known third wave feminists.
I've heard this song before. It was called GamerGate.
Attacking nerds never goes out of style...
Re:Great, another propaganda piece (Score:4, Interesting)
The important part is that Tesla has confirmed to the Guardian that other women have made complaints and harassment. If it was just one person trying to make a false claim there would not be others saying similar things.
Also, have you ever read a newspaper before? That's how they are written. It sucks but they aren't trying to make a watertight legal argument to convince the jury of skeptics.
Check your sources (Score:4, Insightful)
"Musk was not at the meeting, which was attended by roughly 70-100 people, and featured comments from more than 20 women, according to Vandermeyden and another attendee. "
So no one could independently verify that 20 women actually made comments at this meeting, other than a Woman who is trying to sue Tesla over supposed discrimination, and some random, unnamed person? Those are what pass for sources enough to write an inflammatory article saying "DOZENS OF WOMEN CLAIM HARASSMENT" ?
I was at Tesla, Not surprised At All (Score:3, Interesting)
When I spent some quality time at Tesla doing installation work, I was surprised by various workers at different pitches along the line loudly blasting hard core hip hop music that profanely objectified women (you know the type of lyrics I"m talking about). On one hand, I appreciated that Tesla let their very hard working employees listen to the music (and I really appreciated being able to eat free cereal while I worked on electronics out on the line). On the other hand, I found the lyrics of the music to be really offensive to women and not at all professional. Also, I was surprised there there seemed to be little concern for the safety implications of blasting loud music.
A bombshell report? (Score:2)
It wasn't a blonde bombshell was it?
Who is denying it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Elon Musk is a progressive Clinton supporter. So are most Silicon Valley VCs and CEOs. The fact that these people and companies are constantly mired in misogyny and harassment claims neither surprises, nor prompts denials from, conservatives and libertarians. Why should it? It's not surprising to us that progressives and male "feminists" harass women.
So, when you talk about "misogynist scum", you perhaps need to be a bit clearer who you're talking about.
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Society didn't place women in the role of motherhood, that would be nature.
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Traditional gender roles were not a social construct, but the result of biology, specifically pregnancy and high child mortality.
I don't doubt it: government based on individual liberty and personal responsibility scares people, which is why they then embrace authoritarian and oppressive forms of government.
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Traditional gender roles were not a social construct, but the result of biology, specifically pregnancy and high child mortality.
Utter rubbish. The extant hunter gatherer societies are pretty much egalitarian.
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What are you talking about? Hunter gatherer societies had sexual division of labor for tens of thousands of years, and those became even more pronounced in agricultural societies and industrial societies.
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What are you talking about?
Hunter gatherer societies are pretty egalitarian, which means not much by the way of subjugtion. Which is what the GGP was talking about.
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You're making up terms and "facts" as you go along now.
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Well, the traditional gener roles thing is kind of specific to settled societies, because roles which involve staying at home don't realy exist if you're basically nomadic.
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You're saying Peter Thiel has been trying to sleep with female founders? That's a new one!
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I'm happy for you. But I simply pointed out that the OP is wrong: conservatives and progressives have no interest in denying cases where progressives harass or abuse women.
If you do want to talk about implications, it's clear that progressive policies are ineffective in eliminating the harassment of women, contrary to their stated objectives; we can reach that conclusion regardless of what conservatives or libertarians do.
Saying "conservati
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Where can I see those "conservative POLICIES" that say "women should be harassed and abused"?
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You know what, you're right, from now on we're assigning you to work with all males only, all the time. I'll take one for the team and work with all females, don't thank selfless old me! :)
Re: Once again, Slashdot predators will deny this (Score:2)
Marking this as funny (it is) is just more indicative of the problem. Cat calling and misogynistic jokes are desires cloaked in humor, but they are that. Desire. Sex is a market. There are the suppliers (women) and the consumers (men). It's going to take a very long time to out-grow millions of years of evolution that got us here. Guys will behave that way. It's unfortunate, but it's true. For millennia, that behavior was biologically rewarded with successful offspring, so as a guy, we're behaving just like
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Err...can you point me to the method to instantly turn off/on that hormone switch, and turn off my male sexually programmed brain?
Yes, whenever I see a woman, I instantly instinctually size her up with the question, "would I want to fuck her"?
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that does this...it is evolution as another person put it.
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So how does that work when you see your mom/sister/daughter/grandmother/etc?
People are sexually desensitized to those they grew up closely with. That's a strong trait acquired by natural selection, because incest is very bad for the survival rate of offspring.
Now, if you first meet your sibling as an adult, there is nothing to stop attraction at the emotional level (except your reasoning, knowledge, and social pressure).
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What behavior was rewarded? Catcalling? You serious?
Let's lay it clear - competition between males was rewarded. Not catcalling. Not rape. Competition between men. And the females were all too happy to embrace the winners. This behavior - males compete and the winners take all - is as old as multi-cellurar organisms that procreate sexually. 800 million years or so...
You give the impression that today the world is different somehow. Well, we still struggle for life, procreation and happiness, don't we? And w
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Sex is a market. There are the suppliers (women) and the consumers (men).
WTF. I realize that I'm doing an ad-hominem now, but there is just no other appropriate response. Don't they have an education system where you live?
And no one even challenged you on it.
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The problem with that is that shit rolls downhill. Management does it, so those under them do it as well because it's okay and because they too want to feel a bit empowered and they can't beat up on management.
And half the time they don't even realize they're doing it, because everything - management treating underlings as disposable slaves, and men treating women like shit, has been normalized, especially in the post-2000 tech environment that has reduced everyone to a cog who is replaceable at a whim, an
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When the boss or the coworkers are pretty much only sexually harassing women (and it's not just "asking them out for dates" - repeatedly after being told no) then this is gender-specific problem, and saying "The only exception is that sometimes the men ask the women out on dates" is just so tone-deaf ... and following that with ", which (apparently?) women don't like" is blaming the woman because the man can't conduct himself in a professional manner.
There's sexual harassment, and there's discrimination a
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If you think having a wedding ring on your finger keeps men from hitting on you, I have news for you. I wore one as what I called "fly repellent" - keeps the nuisances away - but unfortunately, that works out so that only the creeps hit on me. So when I misplaced it, I didn't bother looking for it, since it wasn't doing its job.
Her response - but I shouldn't have to advertise my relationship status or my sexual orientation
At work, this is absolutely true. It has nothing to do with getting the job done. And let's be honest, most workplace romances get really awkward when the breakup happens. There ar
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Do you really want to be the one to do the survey? And what is the likelihood that people living in anti-gay states would tell the truth if they were?
However, we don't need to do the survey. There are more women who have experienced harassment and discrimination and misogyny than there are gays and lesbians.
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And your grandparents would have washed your mouth out with soap for disrespecting women. Your grandparents worked hard so you could have a better life - don't disrespect that by using it as an excuse to disrespect others. For that, they'd have taken you out to the woodshed.
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risen from warlords and chieftains to a planet that is more democratic than not.
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And yes I do consider representative democracy to be roughly synonymous with a republican form of government.
Re: Once again, Slashdot predators will deny this (Score:2)
I did.
Earth isn't.
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Re: Once again, Slashdot predators will deny this (Score:2)
It was part of your argument. Now it's an unimportant not?
Perhaps you would like to restate your point? Or just wander off smug in your dismissal of those who prefer rational argument?
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You're right. So you guys need to stay home and take care of the house while we women earn the big bucks. If you can't co-mingle with us in the workforce, then stay home.
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It's been tried.
The single most inarguable point in the work world today: If things WERE like the feminists claim, the first company that hired only women would put its competitors out of business...But that's laughable.
I've worked on a 'hen floor'...nothing got done, except by one of the two men on the floor.
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Women by and large ran the massive industrial development necessary during WWII when the US was putting out a ship a day. Able bodied men were in the military and it was women left to get the work done.
As I recall, we won that war rather than loosing it due to lack of munitions from the home front.
Re:Once again, Slashdot predators will deny this (Score:5, Informative)
I celebrate the contribution women made to the war effort, but it is a downright lie to say they "by and large ran the massive industrial development necessary during WWII when the US was putting out a ship a day."
Women, at their peak, during the war, comprised 37% of the workforce. Which is awesome- and a *massive* increase from before the war. And they did it for less money. But don't rewrite history to make it prettier than it was.
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Err...why change and reverse the roles that worked SO well for so many 100's of years?
Even for relatively recent history...this worked out BETTER when the men worked, and the women stayed home to care for the kids, hell...there's biological proclivity for this.
If it isn't working mixed, why not go back to what was proven to work in the past vs doing full blown reversal into unknown territory?
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I'll bet you wonder why you've never, ever, ever been allowed to touch an actual booby without having to make bail afterwards, too. But at least you accept that you never, ever, ever will.
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They co-mingle just fine where I am. Very few problems, nothing like what is reported in this article. We have female managers, employees, scientists, engineers, technicians etc. I'm not claiming we've never had a problem, but problems are rare and harassment is not tolerated at all.
There are the usual and difficult issues with unconscious bias, matching pay to jobs etc but I haven't seen blatant harassment in the 25 years I've been here.
Its not that hard. When you are work, act like a professional.
Re:Really getting old (Score:5, Insightful)
I take no position on the merits of the case until more information is forthcoming, and neither should you. But to call any and all claims of harrassment "feminazi" is hateful.
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Re:Really getting old (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of people here seem to have their identity tied up very strongly with the idea that some men they don't know and have never met didn't harass anyone. It is impossible ot reason with someone who feels their very identity is at stake.
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A lot of people here seem to have their identity tied up very strongly with the idea that some men they don't know and have never met DID harass someone
Not to the same extent. There seem to be more people here for whom no evidence is sufficient who fall on the side of refusing to believe than believing.
This naive, passive-aggressive, SJW revenge-of-the-nerds has sown the seeds of a lot of pain. It has ushered in Trump and a new era of conservatism,
the fault of Trump ultimately lies with Trump and the peopl
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Thanks for proving my point!
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"feminism" thing is out of hand [...] Ive seen women call the cops for no reason cause her boyfriend made her mad. but that's besides the point.
Your argument is that you (in a way you can't verify) once saw a woman do something bad therefore feminism is evil.
dude, whatever is making you so High (702), I'd like some because clearly it is some phenomenally good shit.
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He said he saw women, not a woman, so he's seen it happen more than once. Also, the fact that he says he has seen it tells us he was there, which means that, in all probability, he was the boyfriend in each case. The common factor here seems to be him.
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Economics of Suppression [Re:Factory is a "Predat (Score:5, Interesting)
Since recorded history, whenever an attractive lady walked past a construction zone or equivalent, the male workers hooted and hollered like a bunch of monkeys (which humans pretty much are for good or bad).
Multiple times I've rode to lunch with "white collar" workers, and they do the same when an attractive lady crosses the street, usually with the windows closed, which differs from the factory situation in that the lady usually doesn't hear it (or pretends not to).
Males are biologically horny and it would take a lot of effort and resources to outright stop them from showing it. I'm not condoning flirtatious behavior, only saying it's very economically expensive to curtail most of it and there's probably a point of diminishing returns. Society needs to decide how much enforcement and regulation should be applied to curtail it because the cost ain't free: court costs, firing, training, and policing it is a de facto tax on products and services.
I will agree that (uninvited) touching and outright rude remarks should be punished by probation or termination. But there's a lot of "soft" harassment, much of it subjective in terms of offensiveness. For example, there's a lot of middle ground between "You look very nice today", and "You look veeeery nice today."
Another thing is that if a lady doesn't want such attention, dress ugly, or at least non-sexual. It's quite possible to look professional without adding a sexual nature. Wear dark pantsuits or long loose-fitting skirts, mild or no lipstick, light makeup, hair up or a simple ponytail, and simple practical shoes. Of course there are a few exceptional ladies who look hot in anything, but that's rare outside of modelling agencies.
I've asked some attractively-dressed ladies why they dress provocatively and yet complain about harassment. Their answer is often hypocritical: "I'm okay when nice men flirt with me but not creeps". They want the upsides of attention but not the downsides. I have to call them on that: you can't have it both ways. For one, "creep" is subjective (as the election showed).
Society will probably have to compromise: men can tone it down and learn to be more subtle, and women can manage their attire better.
Re:Economics of Suppression [Re:Factory is a "Pred (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yes: what percentage of the "predation" cited in this complaint is really being asked out by a socially unsure, nerdy man the complainant considers below her station?
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My issue with asking out/being asked out by coworkers is that it puts the person being asked out into an awkward situation, and that isn't fair to inflict on a person in a workplace.
The person being asked out now has to spend time thinking about something they may not have been thinking about before, they may be stressed out about how a rejection might be handled by the other party, they may be worried about how accepting will make them look to other co-workers, and a whole host of other concerns.
Over the c
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Your theory that it's some kind of inherent property of male humans is undermined by the fact that it's far less prevalent in some cultures. Those cultures don't seem to be burdened by this additional cost.
Incidentally they also tend to have more women in industries like construction.
Re:Economics of Suppression [Re:Factory is a "Pred (Score:5, Interesting)
Males are biologically horny
So are women. The idea that it's men is a construct of this society. Others, such as ancient Greece considered women to be the uncontrollably horny ones.
Society needs to decide how much enforcement and regulation should be applied to curtail it because the cost ain't free: court costs, firing, training, and policing it is a de facto tax on products and services.
Unless it has the opposite effect of more women in productive jobs (i.e. larger overall pool of workers) in which case the tax will be negative.
Another thing is that if a lady doesn't want such attention, dress ugly, or at least non-sexual. It's quite possible to look professional without adding a sexual nature. Wear dark pantsuits or long loose-fitting skirts, mild or no lipstick, light makeup, hair up or a simple ponytail, and simple practical shoes.
Guys: wear a sharp suit. Feemales uglify yourself because it's YOUR fault if horndogs can't control their actions like civilised people. Oh and tough on you if dressing well tends to help with career advancement. Double tough if the dress code requires high heels.
I've asked some attractively-dressed ladies why they dress provocatively and yet complain about harassment. Their answer is often hypocritical: "I'm okay when nice men flirt with me but not creeps".
I'd say that kind of puts you into the creep end of things: what's really creepy is those people who can see other people's boundaries but willfully violate them. These ladies it seems would rather people like that didn't (for example) keep pushing the flirting after being shut down. You are basically saying it's not OK, and just fine for those creepy guys to keep pushing.
Society will probably have to compromise: men can tone it down and learn to be more subtle, and women can manage their attire better.
Maybe you should just beat off on the regular so you don't get a boner whenever you atch a glimpse of ankle.
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Yes, because its so much better to grab my dick when a woman walks by instead if saying "Hi" which is what a lot of women refer to as cat calling these days.
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"Hi" which is what a lot of women refer to as cat calling these days.
I finally figured out. It must be something like LSD or mushrooms that's made you such a Highdude, because you clearly hallucinated that as it's never actually happened.
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Because you are just a male, and that might be the reason you are an idiot?
On the other hand we europeans don't really understand those issues.
If someone is harrasing a woman at his/her job, he pretty quick has a big bunch of problems.
No one is spreading that however in the news.