Microsoft Will Sell Office, Windows as a Bundle (axios.com) 263
An anonymous reader shares a report: Microsoft announced plans on Monday to start offering Windows 10 and Office together in a single subscription service. Microsoft 365, as the service is known, will also include security and management tools and come in two flavors: one for large enterprises and the other for small-to-medium businesses. The company didn't say how much it will charge for either version of the service.
Not just no. (Score:5, Insightful)
HELL FUCKING NO!
I am NOT going to rent my OS from Microsoft. Not now. Not EVER.
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Funny)
One too many cups of coffee this morning?
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Funny)
look at that low sid
he's a grognar that probably still writes in perl and doesn't have anything on his gnu/linux system that isn't 100% free
shake that cane at the times, pops
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AC can't be bothered to post under own ID when there's no obvious reason to post AC.
AC is not worthy of any more attention.
Re: Not just no. (Score:5, Insightful)
1: this offering is aimed at businesses which would much rather have subscriptions to their software in order to skip having to shell out tons of money for the next iterative release.
2: almost every other software aimed at professionals works this way now, like Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, and of course every cloud based software.
3: this offering is aimed at businesses who don't buy their OS bundled with their computer, but use some sort of virtualized environment (either on or off premises).
4: At $7/month this software (over a 2 or 3 year time period) is significantly cheaper than buying the license outright and paying for software assurance.
This makes sense for just about any business that plans on keeping their software up to date for their knowledge workers. Obviously if you have a grungy old PC in the back you use to print barcodes that is kept around for a decade and still runs Windows XP, this model may not be for you, buy the license (which you still can do).
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1: this offering is aimed at businesses which would much rather have subscriptions to their software in order to skip having to shell out tons of money for the next iterative release.
Yes, because businesses love upgrading the OS that their core business software runs on. Even many small business just made it off XP a few years ago and will be on Windows 7 until the start of the next decade.
2: almost every other software aimed at professionals works this way now, like Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, and of course every cloud based software.
Even Office still offers a one-time purchase. I bought my last version of CS at 5.5 - I don't see myself buying another.
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HELL FUCKING NO!
I am NOT going to rent my OS from Microsoft. Not now. Not EVER.
Depending on pricing, I could see how Windows as a Service could make sense for businesses. As for you, maybe you should use Linux or Mac. Might be better for your blood pressure.
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Depending on pricing, I could see how Windows as a Service could make sense for businesses.
If they are big enough to have real influence on forward compatibility, maybe. Otherwise, there is a reason that businesses are typically very slow to upgrade to new versions of major software products they use: change is expensive and stability is important for getting real work done. Any sort of X-as-a-service offering that is subject to arbitrary changes, price rises, or even discontinuation is a business risk. Paying for long term support of your existing, tried and tested platforms (as with XP and pres
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you, Chas.
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Funny)
Linux users: the vegans of the computing world.
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux users: the vegans of the computing world.
Following this analogy, I would compare Windows users to fast food junkies who occasionally sit down for a fancy meal at Big Boy. I guess that would make MacOS users the patrons of gourmet.
These comparisons won't fly around here since they don't involve cars.
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Did someone mention flying cars!?
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Well, I think it's a bit of a stretch to put all "windows users" into a single group, but I do go on a week long Windows jag every couple of months, just to keep up with what the rest of the world is experiencing. And every time I do I'm astonished that people still put up with it.
Leaving aside the inevitable and clunky upgrade I go through; the whole system is clunky. It's not that it's slow, exactly; that would show up in benchmarks. It's just inconsistent enough you can't really get into a good workin
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Funny)
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Sure. Tasty "barbecued meats".
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Shit, I need to switch to Linux now? I just finished my payments on that 2010 Mac mini!
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Hey, don't knock the Mac Mini! Recent models have been below par, but for several years we used some of the older ones as lightweight Linux servers. They were cheap, were small, and drew little power, which significantly cut the server room or colo costs, and the specs were good enough for most purposes.
Alas, like a lot of Apple hardware and software, what they've produced under the same brand in recent years has been disappointing. These days for the same kinds of job, you'd probably buy one ludicrously hi
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Ubuntu works fantastic on the Mac Mini I'm using to write this...
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> Only reason to get a Mac anything is to run OS X. If you're running Ubuntu, you could get a more heavily configured PC for the same money
The machine belongs to my employer. I would never buy a Mac desktop.
I also cleaned OSX off my company-supplied MacBook Pro, and I have to say that with the addition of a decent OS (Ubuntu), it's the nicest laptop I've ever used, and with the best battery life. That said, I probably still wouldn't buy one of those, either...
you can buy the 2014 mini at the 2014 price today! (Score:2)
you can buy the 2014 mini at the 2014 price today!
With an 1.4 GHz cpu / 4GB ram / and an 500 GB 5400 rpm for only $499
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Hail to Vega!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYzc_H9cgqM#t=01m13s [youtube.com]
Note: Scene from Contact.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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So by that logic what you said applies to the entire IT industry.
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Yes. Why, yes, it does. Not by choice, perhaps, but the end result is the same.
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Insightful)
With the new model either you keep paying every X months or you can't keep using the software (in theory at least).
I'm still running 7, not because I'm cheap or specially attached to old software but because I dislike many things about Windows 10. If I liked it I'd gladly pay the upgrade.
Not the same. (Score:2)
Sure they fixed things and added new things, but if things worked for you, you could stay where you were OS-level wise. Hell, I know someone who still has XP machines on an airgapped network that do what they need and it works fine - and they paid their one-time ticket to ride per machine, no additional costs ongoing to MS.
This new model? Why buy an OS license one time for $129 (OEM) when you can pay us every month and give us more money after month 14 than if you bought it outright!
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I will gladly rent my O/S from microsoft. At long last, I loved Big Brother.
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HELL FUCKING NO!
I am NOT going to rent my OS from Microsoft. Not now. Not EVER.
This is how enterprises already license their MS software--through an Enterprise Agreement. This is probably an attempt to scale down that licensing model to the home, small, and medium sized business (and, honestly, it will be easier for most businesses too small for much of an IT staff). It's not for you so you don't need to react so strongly.
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Licensing is one thing, but name me one enterprise-scale customer that is subject to Microsoft updating their systems in arbitrary ways without the enterprise's knowledge or consent, or to Microsoft discontinuing a product line so the enterprise had to stop using it at short notice. The rules are entirely different in that game to what the small businesses and independent professionals have to deal with.
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I hope you enjoy ads then. All indications are that Microsoft intends to push people toward buying Windows Enterprise by disabling professional features and including extensive advertising in all non-Enterprise versions.
And still, people won't consider dropping Microsoft.
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One of the MANY MANY reasons I left the MS ecosystem after I retired from 20 years of dealing with that psychotic corporation....
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I have Office 365, but won't have Windows 365. Already, a lot of my work, like checking my accounts, making my payments - I do from my Android tablet. Only thing I really do on my laptop now is Steam games, but once I can get that running on this laptop using PlayonBSD, that too is done. Then the only thing I'll need Windows for would be whenever I need to edit my resume or some document, but for that, I'll simply go to FedEx or a library.
If I'm forced to start an annual subscription for Windows, I'll
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Or a Nintendo Wii Switch 3DS XL.
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The problem with this mentality is that, if it were true, Windows would eventually fade away (hurray) and there would be NO platform for computer gaming. I do not think Halo 23 is a good example, but the reason for computer gaming are mods and other customer driven content (not to mention keyboard + mouse, God's one true user interface). Sometimes Linux can do it, sometimes not, depends on what year.
Mac does not offer anything there (yet, maybe ever, who can tell with their secrecy goals).
I agree there is n
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Those of us who use our computers for things besides gaming, find Linux fits perfectly into our lives.. What very few games I rarely find the time to play either run just fine in Wine OR are presented by Steam.. I used/supported MS products for 20 years and when I retired in 2010, I realized I was sick and tired of their stupid antics, and since they've doubled down on stupidity with Windows NSA Edition, I couldn't be happier...
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>What is it you do professionally on a mac that can't also be done on Windows?
Use UNIX.
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pro-e
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And what would the guy familiar with it say? The same thing.
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Stating what is obvious to 99% of the community here. OSX is based on a BSD. The OS is a customized UNIX with the GUI and Mac stuff built on top of it.**
The new UNIX subsystem in Win10 is just that, a subsystem. Still being fleshed out, btw.
**side note: look at what Apple did on top of that BSD. I think that's an example of what a LINUX could be with enough attention and development time.
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Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Interesting)
However I am not paying month-to-month for it...
The difference is simple, but profound.
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Which actually sounds like it could be a good thing. The wannacry malware was almost all windows 7. How many of those machines do you think were run by companies who didn't want to spend any money upgrading and instead cut the IT department? Such penny wise and pound foolish companies might be en
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The recent ransomware attacks mostly affected Windows 7 machines that hadn't had a certain security patch applied even though it had been freely available for some time. Initially there was a thought that old XP machines with expired special support contracts might have been the main victims, but it turns out that it wasn't really about money to continue extending support, just plain old incompetence.
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How many of those machines do you think were run by companies who didn't want to spend any money upgrading
The cost of upgrading was not Windows licenses. It was everything else that would break if they upgraded Windows.
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Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey there Bob, nice computer you have there, running our Windows 10. Would be a shame if something.. happened to it, now wouldn't it? Oh by the way we're doubling our subscription fee starting next month, just so you know..
..or did that scenario not occur to you? How would it make you feel, if your computer refused to boot one day, instead displaying a message from Miscreant-o-soft, demanding additional payments from you? Pretty shitty, I'd hope. That's what we're fighting against, at all costs. Personally if it was a choice between Miscreant-o-soft and no computer at all, I'd go with no computer. Luckily there's myriad flavors of Linux out there so there's still choice. Otherwise Microsoft is leaning in the direction of not being much better than ransomware authors.
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I had a brief glitch this weekend with Office 365. I started up Excel and it erroneously thought my subscription had expired (it hadn't). A reboot cleared it up, and if it hadn't I could have used my backup on Google Docs. However, it would have been much harder if it had happened to the whole OS. Having the whole computer unusable because of a subscription glitch, or even because I really am short this month, is unacceptable.
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Oh by the way we're doubling our subscription fee starting next month, just so you know.
I wish. At least in that scenario they're telling me ahead of time!
Last time I had a "subscription" was for RealOne a long, long time ago. I had purchased access to watch videos for $25 for one year. Once the subscription was up for renewal, the fee had doubled to $50/yr., but the only way I found out was when I received my VISA statement and saw the new charge. I received no notification about the increase in fee or receipt for the charge. They just doubled the fee on a whim and I never received an e-
Re:Not just no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Software is typically licensed, not sold...
It's nominally on permanent loan to you.
Those aren't necessarily the same thing at all. For a long time, your copy of software you bought with a permanent licence was yours. Various software companies tried to limit rights to it through EULAs, copyright tricks, and so on, but at least in some parts of the world the courts have pretty consistently undermined those moves.
So now there is a move in certain parts of the industry, particularly the parts selling expensive business software and selling games, to move away from any pretense of permanent sales and make it quite explicit that you're just renting something on a subscription basis. This is what has a lot of professional and power user types upset, because relying on something that can be changed or even permanently switched off at any time is not a reliable way to run anything, and is why a new generation of tech laws may now have to deal with questions of service longevity, data portability, and so on.
security (Score:2, Insightful)
"Microsoft will offer security" reads like "the oven will produce ice cubes" or "the ocean will give dry towels".
Makes things simpler (Score:5, Funny)
I still use Office 2010 (Score:4, Informative)
I still use Office 2010. After that version, Microsoft ended the contract that it had with the local company that provided the proofreading tools for Brazilian Portuguese and decided to build a new grammar/style checker from scratch, which as of Word 2016 still is extremely inferior. It has fewer options and misses obvious grammar mistakes. Nevertheless, the LibreOffice checker is even worse.
Re:I still use Office 2010 (Score:5, Informative)
if you find a pattern that libreoffice is failing to catch, please submit a bug report with as much detail as possible. You too can be a valuable contributor to libreOffice. In fact, I don't think we have any native speakers on the team, so support will only come with help from you and people like you.
Bah, go older! (Score:3)
Ha, I was still using Office Pro 2000 SR3 until 10/22/2016 due to a nasty HDD crash. So, I installed new 64-bit Windows 7 HPE SP1 and its Office 2003 Pro SR3. And then, I got a free copy of Office 2007 Pro SR3. I also have LibreOffice just in case. I don't like the newer Office versions too.
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"England OWNS the USA ? Get your own language and you wouldn't have so many problems. This is why it is third world."
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Why? Isn't the newer version the one that's broken?
I feel wrong about this (Score:5, Interesting)
paying a monthly bill to Microsoft for Windows? Feels funky to me. Very funky...
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paying a monthly bill to Microsoft for Windows? Feels funky to me. Very funky...
$2 a month? I could live with that, more, not so much.
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Paying [...] Microsoft for (anything)? Feels funky.
Fixed that for you.
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Why? I don't really get the hatred these days. Their approach in the past has been incredibly sleazy - the per processor licensing, the bundling; but these days they are a typical software company that makes some products that are pretty useful to people. I won't fight over the privacy concerns - a lot of vendors fall flat in that regard, and concerned people can take steps to limit the "damage," but as far as the quality of end user software is concerned, I've not found anything open source that's bett
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Why the least informative link? (Score:5, Informative)
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Schools have had this for nearly a decade now.
Annual subscription, pays for both Windows and Office (EDUDESKTOP), stop paying and both go away.
The only difference is that schools pay per full-time-equivalent staff numbers (e.g. each full-time teaching employee) and then get to install Windows/Office on as much as they like, and remote desktop licences, and Office 365 stuff too.
Unfortunately, complicated by having to have separate annual licences for Server, Exchange, SQL, etc. still. Why they can't just br
So much for the 90s/2000s competition probe then (Score:5, Informative)
Oh well.
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specifically to stop this kind of bundling from taking place
Why? I mean it's a 100% optional choice. Actually it's far more optional than say buying a copy of Windows with frigging Norton or Mcafee or some similar shit bundled.
That does it for one-off licensing... (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess it's been coming for a while. From their perspective it makes total sense - keep everyone on a single version of Windows and Office, force all the consumer users to accept every OS and application update, etc. The average consumer is used to the subscription model now - many are on Office 365 and almost everyone pays for their mobile phone every month. I can't say I'm too happy about the idea of having to rent the operating system as well as the office software running on top of it, but hopefully they'll realize they can't trap everyone in that cycle.
This seems to be the ultimate desired state -- collect revenue on a permanent basis little by little, rather than rely on enterprise agreements and one-off software purchases. It's going to be a big shift though, Windows client licenses have been sold to OEMs for ages, and buying a new computer means it comes pre-licensed for the life of the machine. Windows Server licenses have been either one-off purchases or covered under much bigger enterprise agreements. If you shift to a monthly fee, who pays it, and what happens if you don't pay?
Being in the IT industry for a while gives an interesting perspective...this is officially the point where we start swinging back toward an IBM mainframe style model. IBM still rakes in massive amounts of money by selling companies a mainframe, keeping it fed with parts and software, and charging monthly for the use of computing power. They used to be pretty much the only game in town, and the PC/x86 ecosystem was the break from that. Microsoft's got this going on the Azure side, and now will have another revenue stream on the device side, so we're back to central control of everything. I guess it makes sense because consumers are used to locked-down phones. But, I wonder if as PCs become a niche product for doing actual work rather than consuming entertainment, how many businesses will be happy with having to buy the same software over and over for eternity?
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how many businesses will be happy with having to buy the same software over and over for eternity?
What, you've never heard of annual licensing? This is hardly new. Even monthly licensing has been done by Adobe and others for several years now.
It's all about cash flow (Score:2)
I guess it's been coming for a while. From their perspective it makes total sense - keep everyone on a single version of Windows and Office, force all the consumer users to accept every OS and application update, etc. The average consumer is used to the subscription model now - many are on Office 365 and almost everyone pays for their mobile phone every month. I can't say I'm too happy about the idea of having to rent the operating system as well as the office software running on top of it, but hopefully they'll realize they can't trap everyone in that cycle.
This seems to be the ultimate desired state -- collect revenue on a permanent basis little by little, rather than rely on enterprise agreements and one-off software purchases. It's going to be a big shift though, Windows client licenses have been sold to OEMs for ages, and buying a new computer means it comes pre-licensed for the life of the machine. Windows Server licenses have been either one-off purchases or covered under much bigger enterprise agreements. If you shift to a monthly fee, who pays it, and what happens if you don't pay?
Being in the IT industry for a while gives an interesting perspective...this is officially the point where we start swinging back toward an IBM mainframe style model. IBM still rakes in massive amounts of money by selling companies a mainframe, keeping it fed with parts and software, and charging monthly for the use of computing power. They used to be pretty much the only game in town, and the PC/x86 ecosystem was the break from that. Microsoft's got this going on the Azure side, and now will have another revenue stream on the device side, so we're back to central control of everything. I guess it makes sense because consumers are used to locked-down phones. But, I wonder if as PCs become a niche product for doing actual work rather than consuming entertainment, how many businesses will be happy with having to buy the same software over and over for eternity?
I think in many ways Office 360 was one of the best things done by MS. It lowers the price for home users, and it allows businesses (specially small ones) to turn their MS Office expense from a capex into a opex.
It does sound funky, and it does remove some freedoms from end users. But on the other hand, it allows more people to use the software (it is cheaper to pay a monthly fee than to fork money for a permanent license at once.)
It's all about trade-ins. Many costumers will have legitimate objections
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Being in the IT industry for a while gives an interesting perspective
Is it the perspective where you are unable to see that this announcement only applies to enterprises and businesses which pay for windows using an annual subscription anyway and have since the NT era?
What is it about people being in an industry that makes them completely unable to see what is actually happening in their industry?
cell phones / tablets are one off and don't (Score:2)
cell phones / tablets are one off and don't need to be paid for each mouth
$10/mo? (Score:2)
It'll come down to the price and if it's feasible on the wallet.
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It's a business expense, write it off on your taxes folks, I do it every year and save a fortune.
How long before required on new PCs? (Score:3)
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Well considering that we've had windows as a subscription services for enterprises for the best part of 20 years, and Office about equally as long. I'm going to draw a horizontal trend line which I'll correct for the heat death of the universe.
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Well considering that we've had windows as a subscription services for enterprises for the best part of 20 years, and Office about equally as long. I'm going to draw a horizontal trend line which I'll correct for the heat death of the universe.
You've missed Danathar's point entirely. Yes, enterprise licensing has been an annual subscription, but there are reasons for that. IT departments want flexibility regarding what they run and CFOs generally prefer a consistent cost vs. large one-time expenditures that are difficult to plan for. The subscription model made both sides happy.
Neither of these things apply for home users. Most will prefer a one-off cost that will last a few years, and ride it out until things break beyond cost effectiveness of r
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The real question is going to be, how long before this becomes a requirement on new PC purchases for consumers with Windows pre-loaded? And will consumers cough up the 10 bucks a month or so in addition to the cost of the computer?
Requirement? No, I doubt that but I'm sure they'll eventually become like Xbox Live / Playstation Plus and make some key features paid subscription only. They just need to boil the frog a few more years, 50.33% [steampowered.com] of gamers are now on Win10 according to Steam. If you don't expect funny business from Microsoft when that goes up to 80-90% as Win7 support expires you're naive. And despite the number of games available for Linux the market share is trending down at 0.72% now. As Microsoft has the business market c
but the app store on windows is too locked down (Score:2)
but the app store on windows is too locked down / sandboxes for games to be any thing like steam and forcing paid subscription only for non store apps will be seen as anti trust.
Censorship in App Stores is an big issue as well that can be fixed by having an adults only and open politics areas in them.
no modding / no sli / no CrossFire / no Fraps / no (Score:2)
no modding / no sli / no CrossFire / no Fraps / no turning off V-Sync with games on windows store do you want to know more?
http://www.pcworld.com/article... [pcworld.com]
IT Manager here (Score:3)
As much as I hate MS and dislike the "subscription" model, it's not really a horrible idea in a corporate environment.
I've been stuck behind budgeting concerns which left XP *still* being installed on a sizable portion of our workstations. I'm not even going to talk about the archaic version of office we're rocking.
For home use; bullshit. For corporate/government, it's got it's appeal.
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For our parent company, this subscription would be a very bad model. OS and office "upgrades" are extremely disruptive to our operations groups... Excel version changes are so disruptive we plan everything around that as it directly affects business... millions of dollars at stake. We can never go to a subscription for that reason alone.
Large OS upgrades are not as bad, but are nearly. Any time it changes the interface and people have to relearn how to get around, the workforce complains greatly. And I'm ta
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I've seen your concerns as well, and share them.
For me it's a classic "rock and a hard place" type of scenario. I've had to bang my head against training new users on new versions or fixing what an upgrade broke. I've also had to explain to auditors why we're still on an unsupported version of windows and have had to do some Rube Goldberg shit to bring us into compliance. Given the two problems, for me, I'd much rather have the subscription problem over the upgrade problem.
Of course, if only MS could fuc
Great (Score:3)
Pest AND cholera in a neat package. What more could you ask for?
I suppose they have no choice (Score:2)
They can't seem to make much of an inroad with hardware, unlike Apple - so they have to make their money somewhere.
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The irony is that MS actually makes pretty good hardware, I love their keyboards and mice for instance, and the Surface line of tablets are pretty slick too.
It's too bad MS doesn't have a clue how to do software.
Will it work (Score:2)
on leap days?
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Win10 isn't subscription.
Office is.
And you get a free* copy of Windows 10 with it!
And no other way to buy Windows 10 separately without huge expense.
*(while your subscription is still active)
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Re:Keep Trying (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Keep Trying (Score:5, Insightful)
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More accurately: people want a one-time payment to purchase a quality product. The reason they demand a supply of security and bug fixes is because the initial purchased product is defective - it has bugs and security flaws (often latent ones which are not obvious at time of purchase).
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To everyone not using Windows it's a joke that keeps getting better every time it is told.
Still funny (Score:2)
Yes, it's still funny :)
In other news, Linux desktop market share doubled lately.
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