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Software Technology

Why Are There So Many Knobs in Audio Software? (theoutline.com) 214

John Lagomarsino, writing for The Outline: Skeuomorphic design, where user interfaces emulate the appearance of physical objects, has been popular for pretty much the history of personal computing. The ideas of "files," "folders," and the "recycle bin" in Windows could be considered skeuomorphs, intended to help transition early computer users from analog to digital, as could the idea of an "inbox" and "outbox" in email and the paperclip that symbolizes attachments. More recently, a lot of early iOS apps were famous for their heavy-handed skeuomorphic elements, with felt textures and chunky drop shadows. But no area of computing has so thoroughly gone for it more than audio software. The first Billboard #1 single that was recorded to a hard drive instead of tape was "Livin' La Vida Loca" in 1999; 18 years later, in 2017, most audio software still looks like the designers attempted to replicate physical equipment piece for piece on a computer screen. Faders, switches, knobs, needles twitching between numbers on a volume meter -- they're all there. Except you have to control them with a mouse. Winamp may have been Patient Zero in this gaudy epidemic, but it has spread far and wide. I spend a lot of my time mixing and editing audio, and that often involves having multiple audio plugins (essentially applications that run inside the main audio program) from multiple vendors running simultaneously. But all audio software, for what I suppose are historical reasons, features the most egregious skeuomorphic design in all of software. Alone, each plugin is hideous in its own unique way. A panel of 3D knobs here, a pixelated oscilloscope there.
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Why Are There So Many Knobs in Audio Software?

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  • Because... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Thelasko ( 1196535 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:03AM (#55083409) Journal
    ...so many users are knobs.

    I'll be here all week. Try the fish!
    • by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      That is actually how my 13 year old mind read the title at first. I got through my first subsequent thought of "there are a lot of knobs in all kinds of software development" before I made the connection. (Cue Beavis and Butthead laugh.)
  • by Nkwe ( 604125 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:06AM (#55083427)
    Without knobs how would I turn it up to 11?
    • by Strider- ( 39683 )

      True story: worked on satcom gear for military public affairs. At one point, we added a small mixer to the unit to support IFB audio so they could more easily do live interviews and what not. When we made up the labels for the mixer, I made sure our graphics designer had the markings going from 1 to 11... about 10% of my students caught the reference.

    • If you want to set an effect's intensity to 11 units out of 12, you can move the slider to 11 or click in the adjacent text field and pressing 1 1 Enter. Just don't use a knob, you knob.

  • Totally Agree! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spinlock_1977 ( 777598 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {7791_kcolnipS}> on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:06AM (#55083429) Journal

    I've even gone so far as to search for plug-ins that DON'T rely on skeuomorphic designs, and came up mostly empty. Plug-in designers put waaaay too much effort into making their front panels look like brushed aluminum and their needle velocity just so, and not nearly enough effort into making their interfaces intuitive and effective.

    • The only time this shit is acceptable is when they are emulating a specific model of hardware. Only then does the value of a familiar interface outweigh the travesty that is the digital knob.

      • Absolutely. Whether it's a with a mouse or a touch interface on a tablet or a phone, interacting with fake knobs on a screen is painfully annoying. Physical knobs are good when you need precise quick control. Digital knobs are the opposite - as you say, a travesty.

    • Re:Totally Agree! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:31AM (#55083623)

      making their interfaces intuitive

      Intuitive to whom? For someone who's used audio mixers before there's nothing more intuitive than seeing a picture of a mixer. For someone who does it professionally there's nothing more intuitive than plugging in a mixing control surface and binding the physical knobs to the virtual knobs.

      • Re:Totally Agree! (Score:4, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:44AM (#55083739)

        /thread.

        It makes perfect sense as soon as you remember that MIDI control surfaces exist

      • So you think a mix board is the epitome of an interface for doing audio?
        • Having done thousands of live mixes, yes a mixing board is the most efficient way to group, adjust and display many parameters in a human usable fashion.
          I use a digital mixer with ipad remote these days, but the only reason I do so is to save weight and not use long multicore cables. ( saves 100kg)
          The downside is in speed of pulling a good mix at the start, on a real analouge mixer, it takes less than the first song, whereas the digital desk takes up to 3 songs to get near the same result, purely due to the

          • what about something that allowed you to play with the waveforms in a visual fashion? a big ass touch screen instead of your board.
            • The thing you're thinking of is called a "guitar". It's kinda cool... you have a string representing the waveform, and you manipulate it in several places with your fingers to change the pitch.

              Of course, then there are effects, volume, pan, routing, and a number of other things that happen that don't really work by touching a "big ass touch screen".

        • So you think a mix board is the epitome of an interface for doing audio?

          So you think that Trump is attractive in a sexual way? I mean since we're not actually reading what the other person wrote and then just claiming they said something completely different to what they actually said and on a completely irrelevant train of thought I figure we can continue playing that game.

      • Exactly. Up until recently, the vast, VAST majority of people using audio software were professionals who got their start by working with real knobs and real buttons on real mixing boards. Each of those controls was on that mixing board to serve its very specific, important purpose, and any audio software intending to replicate that functionality would need to provide some way for controlling the functionality provided by each of those knobs. Unfortunately, filling the screen with hundreds of pull-down menu

  • That'd the real way to get away from skeuomorphic paradigms. :wq!

  • by SlashDread ( 38969 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:13AM (#55083481)

    Audio engineers are not programmers? Well usually anyways.

    They like to mimic what they know, mixers, synths, filters compressors etc. The H/W variety works with knobs, so the S/W variety mimics that to help, you know, real audio engineers.

    • Re:because (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:32AM (#55083635)

      Audio engineers are not programmers? Well usually anyways.

      They like to mimic what they know, mixers, synths, filters compressors etc. The H/W variety works with knobs, so the S/W variety mimics that to help, you know, real audio engineers.

      This! The last thing any audio engineer needs to to learn a new interface after having spent many years learning on that has started to look pretty damn standard. If you really don't like the mouse, why not buy a USB mixer control surface and plug it in to your computer. That way you can physically control all the software controls, just like on a real mixing desk.

    • Audio is still a very analog type of work. So knobs and leavers more accurately represent what they are trying to accomplish.
      They may be other elements that are better suited for computers. But for the most part the knob is probably good enough.

  • by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:14AM (#55083503)
    What the article should have said is this:
    I use GarageBand and only GarageBand and this is how GarageBand works.

    For what it's worth, CoolEdit and Audacity don't work that way. I've never used GarageBand so I can't speak to what it does that you apparently can't live without and/or think that nothing else can do, but I've used Audacity for editing and CoolEdit for sophisticated transformations and neither of them look anything like GarageBand does.
    • It's not just GarageBand. Not even close. Take a look at any pro audio software and plugins, VST synths, Audio Unit stuff, it's a lot of the same. It makes life a pain for actually using them day-to-day.

      • Rosegarden? [rosegardenmusic.com]

      • by Creepy ( 93888 )

        Yep. My commercial pro audio software tries to emulate everything my mixing board can do, which is about 25 things for each channel (and the mixing board has 12 channels - small, but it has pro audio power levels and phantom power for my condenser mics). I can only record 2 channels at once though because that is all my interface supports and I haven't dished out for one that can do more. For me that isn't a big deal because I rarely need more than 2 channels at once (the exception is recording a drum kit,

  • I'm not amongst the new "skeuomorphic design is evil" school of thought at all, but anything can be overdone -- and some audio software is the perfect example of that.

  • by tigersha ( 151319 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:22AM (#55083551) Homepage

    If you think MP3 players are bad, try pro Audio stuff. VST synth Plugins, filters, compressors, stompbox emulators, all of them, to a tee are the same. Reason Actually have pictures of stuff tapes to a rack. The virtual cables swing around when you plug and unplug them. Omnisphere, while being a fantastic synth has this horrible blue interface from the 80s. The vintage emulators from Arturia look pretty much the same as the real equipment, scratches on the woodwork included. This is not a good thing, the user interfaces often suffer horribly for it.

    Exception include some of the newest things from Native Instruments, Kontour and rounds for instance as well as Zebra and Serum, the hottest VST synth at the moment.

    Curiously, there is a lot of innovation in designing advanced input devices to make music. Roger Linn, the guy who built the classic Linn Drum Machine in the early 80s is a big fan of this idea, bringing out the Linnstrument. Other things that are very innovative are the Roli Seaboard, Eigenharp, some of Keith McMillen's stuff, Reactable, Continuum and many of the buttony things such as the Ableton Push. It is also a cool place to play with Arduino and embedded electronics. Making Bluetooth Midi things that use your body to control synths is really fun.

    On the hardware input side there is a lot of innovation. On the software side it is Retro, Retro and more Retro. When it comes to the newly active field of analogue or half-analogue synths anything that looks like a digital bit is screamed down by the purists. It really is a shame, there is a lot of innovation that looks and sounds very interesting.

    • by Strider- ( 39683 )

      Oddly, I don't remember much of this from Protools back in the 2003 timeframe when I used it. That said, I was a Computer Engineer taking an audio editing course for my arts credit, and mostly stuck to the analog gear because it was my one time when I didn't have to use a computer. Besides, when else would I have been able to lay my hands on a real Lexicon DDL, Fairchild Reverbatron, or a Bode Ring Modulator (designed by Henry Bode himself)? Totally not practical in the modern era, but an absolute blast to

  • by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:24AM (#55083567) Journal
    Do you really expect audio producers to have to learn a whole new interface that has nothing to do with the physical equipment it's digitally emulating? That makes no sense. If you sit someone down who has produced audio on professional (physical) equipment, and they have a choice between one that has familiar controls in a familiar arrangement, and one that has some totally different interface (for arguments sake, let's say it's all number entry boxes and drop-down menus, like it's MS Office or something) that doesn't have the 'feel' of what they're used to, which do you think they'll pick? TFA sounds like it was written by someone who has never used real audio equipment in his life.
    • Do you really expect audio producers to have to learn a whole new interface that has nothing to do with the physical equipment it's digitally emulating?

      No, but virtual knobs are still stupid when sliders exist. They're close enough to knobs to be substituted and make good sense.

      • If it's an EQ, it should have sliders for each frequency. But if it's a mixer the low/mid/high EQ should be knobs.
        L/R balance per channel is better as a knob. Fader should be a slider.
        Channel level can be a knob but it's better as a slider.
        FX returns are usually knobs and would feel awkward as sliders.
        Mains levels can be knobs but they're also better as sliders.
        ..and so on.
        • If it's a graphic equalizer, then, yes, it should have sliders. But in music production, you'll find parametric equalizers are preferred because of their flexibility and precision, and they run on knobs.
      • by Vairon ( 17314 )

        The problem with virtual sliders is that they take up more room than a virtual knob. VST plugins use a GUI that takes up as little room as possible. When you have multiple VST plugins running at the same time, space is at a premium. In addition, now a days many music artists use laptops in shows with even more limited desktop resolution.

        When space is at a premium, knobs are king.

    • by mccalli ( 323026 )
      Yes I do, because there's a generation that grew up now using virtual. I've never used the original analogue stuff and trying to work it all out on a computer screen just feels very....anachronistic to me.

      I understand you're point when it's an emulation of original hardware, but people are still making new, entirely digital instruments like this as well. It really irritates.
  • They're designed that way to keep the learning-curve as shallow & short as possible for guys that are used to vacuum-tube amplifiers with physical-spring reverb tanks and effects pedals with germanium transistors. Knobs, buttons, switches, and sliders are what they understand and so skeuomorphic-style GUI digital audio workstation software is what they tend to be more comfortable with and hence to buy, so naturally that's what is most-produced.

    Strat

    • by Strider- ( 39683 )

      The (actual) Engineer in me always thought that an audio editing/realtime effects software styled on LabView would work quite well... Drop effects controls onto a workspace, then wire them up by running links between the boxes. Don't know if that's what modern stuff is like (I haven't done audio work since 2002 or so), but it's one of those things that always stuck with me as a sensible way of doing things.

  • It's so easy to criticize without offering a solution... Beyond the brushed aluminum, what is the proposed alternative that would provide an intuitive and efficient to use interface? (Though I completely agree that image of a patch-cable setup in the linked article is ridiculous.)
  • Eek! A mouse! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by garryknight ( 1190179 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [thginkyrrag]> on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:38AM (#55083689)

    "You have to control them with a mouse".

    Or a MIDI keyboard such as my Nektar LX49+, or a mixer like the Novation SL Mk 2, the Mackie Mix 8, the Behringer BCF2000, or the Faderport 8. A mouse! This ain't the Dark Ages, you know!

    • I faded out of recording just as USB controllers were taking off, so I'm not all that familiar, but do these controllers also interface with all the plugins? If you have a compressor or reverb plugin running, can you twist a knob on your controller, and it'll automatically twist the attack knob?

      I see how it's fine for the 'mainboard' of your recording software, which does look like a mixer, but I think the poster is referring to all the extra bits: VST instruments, etc.. I had the original Halion VST instru

      • by mccalli ( 323026 )
        Yes - you can get these kind of controllers to control any AU/VST. The Novation in particular wraps the AU/VST using something called Automap, but more common approaches are to implement something like "MIDI learn" on the virtual instrument, then turning whatever dial on the control surface.
      • They do interface with all the plugins, but you mostly have to link the controls to the controller manually, depending on the controller. Some controllers come with software that allows them to interface directly with built-in plugins in the DAW (such as my Nektar Impact LX49+ which integrates directly with Studio One and Live plus about 11 other DAWs), but many don't. And, though my LX49+ controls the Studio One plugins without further work on my part, I do have to link to the controls on non-factory VSTs

    • by mccalli ( 323026 )
      You know - I have a Novation SL Mk 2 and a Behringer BCF2000, and I still find myself reverting to mouse control. I just found the other way too imprecise and difficult to replicate consistently.

      Plus there's the annoyance with automap when it comes to the Novation, but that's a specific issue with their design choice and not about the input method per se.
  • Real-estate (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kwelch007 ( 197081 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:40AM (#55083713) Homepage

    It turns out that knobs are pretty space-efficient considering the function they perform, when physical or digitally presented. When doing live sound, having quick access to as many adjustments as possible with a simple reach is invaluable. One of the things I dislike about most modern digital mixing consoles is that they tried to limit the number of knobs which in turn leads to more buttons being pushed to switch between channels.

    • I had to think about it for a minute, but sliders are better for things that need to be accessed more often (channel levels, for instance) and knobs for things less often adjusted (channel EQ, i.e. low/mid/high, FX return levels, per-channel monitor levels, etc).
      • by green1 ( 322787 )

        You shouldn't have to think about it, just look at any real mixer board, they already do exactly that, and you know why? Because that's what works best!

        • What I meant was: I've done live sound reinforcement, worked with a producer, and have a fair understanding of things, enough so that I don't have to think about it if I'm doing it, but I have to articulate it in words I have to think about it.
  • If the panels accurately reflect the layout/design of comparable analog boxes that perform that function, then someone skilled at using the digital version would likely have an easier time learning and using the analog equivalent. Also, vice versa.
    While the OP isn't wrong about wanting interfaces that aren't held back by....legacy....considerations, I still see a lot of analog devices in use.
  • by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:43AM (#55083733) Journal

    Have you ever met a true musician? You know - those that actually are good, and make music for a living, not only a boy/girl with a guitar or a "Home studio" in moms basement.

    Music is ALL about the FEEL. And musicians are often very visual as well as aural, they tend to really LOVE their hardware, and by hardware I mean their Guitars, saxophones, trumpets, drumset, keyboard, violins and whatever floats your boat. In fact - it's almost like a girlfriend or boyfriend to some, this instrument makes them feel they can perform, it's a trusted friend - it's a companion - it's something you wouldn't let go for dear life!

    So when you see all these controls and knobs, it is intended to give the user complete VISUAL control and emulate the "unplugged" feel of the electromechanical gear that costs a FORTUNE if you actually want the real thing (like external mixers, harddisk track recorders, Tascams, keyboards, sound-modules etc.). It just makes you FEEL better, that there's something there - real hardware - that you can touch, control and FEEL.

  • Wrong (Score:5, Informative)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @11:47AM (#55083773)

    Except you have to control them with a mouse.

    No, you fools.

    High end audio software ties into physical knobs and sliders and shit on your high end boards. You control the digital knob with an actual knob.

    All other software apes the high end software, but most of it can't tie into actual hardware dealies and even the mid end packages that can often don't because the low end users don't have such hardware.

  • http://www.akaipro.com/product... [akaipro.com] The knobs on the screen can be controlled with hardware. Some hardware also has powered knobs/sliders that can be controlled from the screen as well during playback (or manually).
  • How else would you control many many dynamic and constantly-adjusted variables in real time?

    I know it's frightfully analog, but the fact is that things like drop-down lists, context-relevant controls, etc would just make this harder. If I need to drop the bass volume in the middle of live performance, I don't want to have to hunt for the control, I want the control RIGHT WHERE I EXPECT IT.

    I can see ultimately someone crafting a better UI, sure, what can't be improved? But the UI controls have a lot of org

  • by Morgaine ( 4316 ) on Friday August 25, 2017 @12:09PM (#55084003)

    Musicians and enthusiasts who use music creation software usually know very well why their software tools have an interface that depicts music hardware, so I'm a bit puzzled why it's a mystery to the author of TFA.

    The reason is that hardware controls like knobs, sliders, percussion pads, 2-axis touchpads, multi-axis RF field interfaces, breath controllers and many others kinds are extremely interactive and immediate in their effect, and so their use comes naturally to music creators. All of these controllers are commonly provided with a MIDI interface today. This has been so for many decades, either baseband MIDI or today commonly carried over USB. Through MIDI, these hardware interfaces are bound by the musician to any desired control points in the software tools, and the result is extremely expressive and a pleasure to use.

    The author complains that controlling the s/w elements with a mouse is pretty awful, and indeed it is, but nobody with any sense does that except before they've set up their MIDI control gear. There are literally hundreds of thousands of different kinds of MIDI controllers around, often costing very little, so it's a bit unusual to find a music maker who is not aware of them and of their purpose.

    • by Megane ( 129182 )
      Exactly. Any good audio software can have its virtual knobs mapped to real knobs on a MIDI device (almost always USB these days, with adapters available to convert classic serial MIDI to USB). They will also usually include pre-programmed map support for the hundred or so most popular MIDI control devices. Not just audio editing (knobs, faders, buttons, LEDs), but music input (piano keyboards, pitch controls, variable-pressure drum pads) and DJ mixing (jog wheels, faders, knobs, buttons, pads, LEDs) as well
  • The one software genre that really burns me is Video editors. They all want to use some variant of the Edit Decision List, or "EDL". Rather than using the standard way we select things on most softwares...example...You select part of a sentence, cut it, move the cursor to where you want to put it, and then paste it.

  • Do they not understand that you can have midi controllers that interface with those knobs and buttons? With the proper MIDI controls, it's perfectly sensible.
  • They've been doing this since the early days of Notator (Logic), Performer, MasterTracks and Vision. Keep in mind that the majority of plugins are emulating old rack gear which had knobs, buttons, and faders. It's familiar and much easier to control, especially with an outboard control unit like an X-Control, than an Event List editor with parameters in hexadecimal. There's nothing wrong with it.
  • I'm sure if you're just mixing 2 channels together, it doesn't matter much, but if you're mixing live music, we need identifiers that are unified across various systems. Sure you can put a color on a virtual DSP but not everyone will have the same color selected. In some cases, you actually have emulated real hardware and in some case the hardware is actually real hardware.

    To replace everything with grey knobs is worse, hence why we have this.

  • - It just looks damn cool when done right (ok, subjective judgment)
    - It can be controlled with real hardware (ex: DJing software like Traktor tend to look like the real mixing table the user likely has)
    - When real hardware is emulated, it is natural that the software looks like the hardware it emulates (ex: a TB-303 soft synth will have the same buttons at the same locations as an actual TB-303).
    - Knobs are not that bad for screen-based interaction.

  • Sound engineers are all geriatric hippies who can't use modern software.

  • ....on a volume meter."

    Is that really a thing? I've used pro and consumer analog gear with LED meters since the 80s, and none of (admittedly limited) software I've used had faux needles. Are they that common in audio apps?
    • A VU meter is different than some LEDs. Most LED meters are peak meters that operate at Full Scale (0 db is the top LED, you can't go higher without clipping), meaning they'll show the volume of the loudest part of the track, the absolute peak of a waveform's transient. This is useful with digital, as you generally never want to clip or overshoot 0 dbFS. A VU meter has different ballistics (the way it reacts to incoming signal is slower) and acts as more of an indication of average volume of the signal. A p

  • Then you can interact with your virtual knobs and sliders as you would real ones.

  • I've had a studio most of my adult life. I've owned all kinds of mixers, effects, compressors, patch bays, reverbs, whatever. I probably spent more on studio hardware than I will on my kids education. All of those knobs do something. They have value.

    It stands out to me author never worked in a studio or done serious audio work. He says he has used ES2 synthesizer in Logic Pro for 8 years and still cannot "come closer to understanding what any of its controls do, or why they are laid out like this

  • Coming late to the discussion here, but I'd like to talk about Adobe Audition. It does not use knobs. Here are my thoughts:

    I came late to the recording game. To clarify, I am an amateur recorder. That said, I have a fairly complete rack at home, and it has lots of knobs. Like, heaps! And when I am adjusting attacks/delays/etc the knobs are fine.

    Switching to Audition, if I apply something like a compressor, each value has a slider and an editable number at the end. It is excellent - I can fine tune the valu

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