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China Transportation Earth

China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations (247wallst.com) 103

Posted by EditorDavid from the charging-ahead dept.
"It soon will become easier to charge a Chevy Bolt or Tesla in China," reports 24/7 Wall Street, citing reports from China's official newspaper that they've built the highest number of electric-car charging facilities in the world, offering "the broadest coverage, and the most advanced technology." AmiMoJo quotes their announcement: A total of 167,000 charging piles have now been connected to the telematics platform of the State Grid Corporation of China, making it the world's largest electric vehicle (EV) charging network. By cooperating with 17 charging station operators, the SGCC now offers more than 1 million kilowatt-hours of power each day.
24/7 Wall Street says the ambitious (and government-subsidized) plan "is bound to help electronic car adoption since most vehicles in the category have ranges well under 300 miles."
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China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations More

China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations

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  • ... I thought climate change was a Chinese hoax?

  • China appears to be shooting for EV dominance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RhettLivingston ( 544140 ) on Saturday September 09, 2017 @02:58PM (#55165849) Journal

    The strategy appears to be to lock in local producers for the bulk EV market while only letting foreign companies succeed at the high end and then to scale up quickly. Once they've achieved large scale production in the world's largest market, then they will seek to dominate the foreign markets. They will also have more of an excuse to use their own rare metals and charge higher prices to export them. Smart.

    EV dominance will have side benefits in many other tech and energy spheres. It's an investment with potential similar to our Apollo investment half a century ago.

    • And the US falls further behind because of the red states and Supreme Leader Cheeto...
      • The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.

        • Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance (Score:4, Insightful)

          by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Saturday September 09, 2017 @04:05PM (#55166109) Homepage

          > The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.

          You are confusing "cooperation" with "mandatory participation" enforced at the barrel of a gun. Nothing is stopping YOU personally from making better choices. The truth is that American consumerism is at odds with what needs to get done here.

          It's also a lot easier to get things done when you can just boss everyone around and not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.

          I bet their trains run on time too.

          • not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.

            I am not sure what "literacy" has to do with any of this, but China has a literacy rate of 96.4%. America's literacy rate is 97.9%. So they are not very different.

            • And 96.4 divided by 97.9 multiplied by 1000 equals 984.6%, so my country of Canuckistan clearly has better math classes than both!

          • It's also a lot easier to get things done when you can just boss everyone around and not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.

            It just so happens that literacy is also one of the things they want done. So they have that, on-time trains, and superior EV charging networks, but sure they don't get to shoot up your kids at school, so that's a point off...

        • Communism is legal in the US. There are many communes that anyone can legally join. The converse is not true under communism.

          • Ask people prosecuted in the McCarthy era how legal communism was in the US for them.

            • Turns out, advocating for the violent overthrow of the elected US government and its replacement with a Communist dictatorship is illegal. Whoda thunk it?

              • Such a thing is totally unAmerican. Remember, as Yogi Berra said, the business of America is business.

                You're supposed to buy the government.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by skam240 ( 789197 )

            What a bizarrely stupid thing to say.

            Of course some one can surrender one's liberties entering a commune (although sometimes said surrendering is illegal). That's a dumb comparison though. The American Left is less communist than the American Right is pro anarchist, which is to say our Left is a loooong way from communism in terms of size of government, especially when you put it in a global context.

            In terms of American politics, communism is a boogeyman the Right likes to use to keep their base in line. Th

      • And the US falls further behind because of the red states...

        Because in California and other blue states it's so easy to mine rare earth metals and build energy infrastructure without every single project being bullied to a halt by the People's Deep Earth Resistance?

        • Ah yes, People's Deep Earth Resistance. Not to be confused with the Deep Earth Resistance for the Planet, or DERP.

          Splitters!!

    • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

      by CaptnCrud ( 938493 )

      I think they are more interested in the control aspects rather than being green. Just of the top of my head I can think of several scenarios where going 100% fully electric vehicle would be of benefit from a control point of view for what I would call a "Captive Audience":

      1. charge stations can be turned off to isolate pockets of areas you want to keep contained/isolated.
      2. don't be surprised if the "plugs" are designed to only work with certain charge stations (i.e. theirs).
      3. individual transports can be

      • That's pretty insightful. I didn't think about shutting off all the recharge stations in an area experiencing anti-government protests, but that's a good idea. China has already cut off access to Alipay online payments for trivial issues. Without cash, you'd be helpless.
      • That's pretty insightful. I didn't think about shutting off all the recharge stations in an area experiencing anti-government protests, but that's a good idea. China has already cut off access to Alipay online payments for trivial issues. Without cash, you'd be helpless. Same thing without recharge stations for electric vehicles.

      • This just goes to show why Americans might be reluctant to rely on electric vehicles for their primary transportation.

        It's trivial to buy a few jerrycans to keep some spare fuel on hand in case of an emergency, like... I don't know, a hurricane perhaps. It doesn't take government intervention to shut down an electric recharge station but that's just one of many reasons that might cause it.

        People might say such things don't happen very often but it only takes one case to make an example for so many more.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by pots ( 5047349 )
        There's no need for Machiavellian scheming, China has a massive pollution problem and their economic development requires large-scale investment in projects much like this one. This is a better use of funds than manufacturing ghost-towns, and they know it, so they do it.
        • Most of China's pollution problem comes from non-vehicular sources. Making electric cars isn't going to solve that... Heck, half of Beijing's famous smog problem is because of the 'Yellow Dust' that blows over from Mongolia, coming out of the deserts just 100 km West of Beijing.

    • Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Saturday September 09, 2017 @03:37PM (#55165971) Homepage Journal

      Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.

      For example, around 80% of new busses in China are electric, and by 2020 it will be close to 100%. How many western bus manufacturers even offer serious hybrids, let alone fully electric models? Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?

      On the personal vehicle side, few manufacturers outside China make models that are affordable in China, or even that affordable in the west. If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty, the west would be flooded with cheap Chinese cars. They are already popular in some places, e.g. a lot of Taxi drivers in London have been buying BYD electric vehicles for a few years now.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jedidiah ( 1196 )

        > Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?

        Who makes ANYTHING these days? Where have you been exactly? THIS is why China is the most important country when it comes to pollution. The rest of the developed world has outsourced their dirty industries there.

        Actually MAKING stuff in the US is like Trumpie crazy talk.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Panasonic and Tesla have build the one of the largest battery factories in the world in the US. You guys could make bus batteries if you wanted to...

          In fact, maybe Panasonic/Tesla are making them, for their new truck model.

          • Any new bus battery factory would be vehemently opposed by environmentalists whose goal would be to harass, file frivolous lawsuits, and generally make the whole thing too expensive and too much trouble. The loser is America, but since the entire concept of "America" is problematic, I don't think it's going to change.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              So where were these people when Tesla built its factory?

              Your imaginary foes cloud your judgement.

              • So where were these people when Tesla built its factory?

                In the same place as those gangs of marauding youths a colleague envisaged ripping out cables from charging cars and destroying all the charge points that will have to be installed along all the streets...

              • Right here [legal-planet.org], saying it was terrible that Musk (electrons be unto His name) chose Nevada over California because he would bypass the onerous and stifling regulatory world of California. I can provide a few dozen other links to both right and left groups that opposed the financial giveaways and the environmental damage that the gigafactory represented to these groups...
          • China already makes about 60% of ALL lithium batteries in the world; sure, Musk (electrons be unto His name) is hyping the West with a big factory, but in terms of output? He'll be way down the list. One big facility versus dozens of nearly-as-big facilities - I know which one is a better, safer, more economical supply chain!

      • Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance (Score:4, Insightful)

        by RhettLivingston ( 544140 ) on Saturday September 09, 2017 @06:59PM (#55166883) Journal
        It is a travesty that we miss so many low-flying opportunities. For example, the US school bus fleet is huge and generally terminal based. They almost never refuel anywhere but at their terminal. There would be zero need for refueling stations away from the terminals for the vast majority of school buses. They should be well on their way to being fully electric already.

        • I think that's a really bad idea and I'll tell you why. I live in a fairly rural part of the USA. When I was riding a school bus to school it would be a 40 minute ride all over the county. There were probably a dozen or so school buses for the school. How large of a battery would this bus need to run this route? How much would that cost? What kind of infrastructure would the school need to recharge those batteries? If you're going to recharge all those buses, and it takes hours for them to charge, th

          • I think that's a really bad idea and I'll tell you why. I found a small situation not representative of the entire scenario that isn't low hanging fruit and therefore the entire project is a bad idea

            Did I quote you correctly?

            • Did I quote you correctly?

              No. Even in an urban setting the buses will need to travel a non-trivial distance, at speeds that keep up with traffic (perhaps not highway speed but 35 to 45 mph would not be unheard of), carrying a non-trivial number of people, and do this many times per day, for many days in a row, and do so with a cost the same or lower than current buses. This is not a trivial problem to solve, technologically (yet) or economically (yet).

              Schools won't bus children if they live within a mile or so, they consider that

              • Did I quote you correctly?

                No. Even in an urban setting the buses will need to travel a non-trivial distance, at speeds that keep up with traffic (perhaps not highway speed but 35 to 45 mph would not be unheard of), carrying a non-trivial number of people, and do this many times per day, for many days in a row, and do so with a cost the same or lower than current buses. This is not a trivial problem to solve, technologically (yet) or economically (yet).

                Given all electric buses and taxis exist and are in use, and you just moved the goalposts away from a simplified ideal scenario to incorporate yet more stuff not relevant to a conversation, I suggest instead of writing length posts which cause people to tune out after the first 3 incorrect statements, take a debating class.

          • There were probably a dozen or so school buses for the school.

            We only had six. Mind you, ours were the long kind.

          • Not that I'm really disagreeing with you - rural areas are a massive obstacle when it comes to electric vehicles (and public spending is another obstacle) - but to nit pick some of your numbers. 80 miles isn't a out of the question for a vehicle with lots of battery space nowadays (add 50% to get 120 miles as the route is circular). Also you only get to travel 13 miles at 20mph over 40 minutes. Either your school trip took 4 hours, your bus travelled at an average of 120mph, or you lived a lot closer to sch

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          When your country is at war with more nations and for such a long time that your own parents may not have know a time without it, then what exactly is the travesty again??

      • Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.

        This indeed! We're starting to see electric buses deployed where I live. The company? BYD. Lovely quiet Chinese electric busses. There's even two BYD cars outside my building. I think the guys on the floor above us work for them.

        Private fleets are going electric too. Schipol airport in Amsterdam has an electric bus fleet ... BYD again. Sydney has an electric bus fleet ... BYD. Brisbane Australia is getting an electric bus fleet too, Toro but apparently that's a joint venture with BYD.

        The Chinese are eating

      • If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty

        Right, because those are the only kinds of protectionism the Chinese engage in. And they should be allowed to call powdered plastic milk if they want, because it's part of their tradition or something.

    • They will also have more of an excuse to use their own rare metals and charge higher prices to export them. Smart.

      They can't. Smart is a German automotive marque and division of Daimler AG, based in Böblingen, Germany.

  • I know that guy. He is famous.

  • 1 million kilowatt-hours of power each day.

    My head asplode.

  • the roads are most of the time paid by taxes. These taxes are usually taken with the fuel sales. There are ways to get this done with electrical vehicles. It has to be done. Or else I would expect ICS users to go to courts to get their rights respected. But I guess tax men everywhere will get a feeling for it soon enough. SO with electric vehicles will come possibly some sort of road metering. The most likely way is gps plus some onboard device that reports to taxman what is due. I wonder how the Chinese r

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Road use tax on charging stations.

      Over thinking is the root of all evil.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by richrz ( 1624799 )
      Everyone uses the roads because everything you buy or use has been transported a minimum of 3 times on public roads. Accepting special case taxes only helps politicians...as we fight to lower the gas taxes we can't accept the premise to begin with that the government should have special taxes above and beyond the normal sales tax.

    • The Chinese solve the road tax issue by having tolls every 10 miles or so on the freeway. Between Tianjin and Beijing, I must have stopped at least 5 times for toll

    • GPS to track mileage? WTF? Why not just use the already existing, and government mandated, odometer?

      A politician that mentions the need to put GPS in a car to accurately measure miles traveled for taxes is either so out of touch of how the world works that they don't know about odometers, or want to use the GPS to track more than just miles traveled.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by umghhh ( 965931 )
        Because while they are at it they will get different tariffs per time of the day and year as well as per area. OC there are other ways to fix it w/o gps.

  • China Doing what America Can't (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I never thought China would end up being the environmental revolutionary of the world. Thanks to China's blend of Communism and Socialism, China can do with the stroke of a pen what greedy capitalist societies like the US could never accomplish.

    • It is not good to think of China as communist when thinking about world trade and management matters.

      At the national level, perhaps China is the ultimate capitalist competitor. They act in the self-interest of the nation of China - not in a communist-like belief that all of the nations of the world should be equal.

      When you view nations as actors instead of people, there is zero communism in the way China trades as an entity. The international market is capitalist and China enjoys a greater ability to decisi

      • China has been letting more capitalism into their internal system anyway. They're growing their upper class, and beginning to create a sizable middle class — only a small percentage of their population has to improve their lot to create a large number of consumers. And relevantly, their auto industry is finally getting to the point where they can design and build a car that someone might want to drive without a ton of help from outsiders.

  • 1 million kilowatt-hours of power (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thinkwaitfast ( 4150389 ) on Saturday September 09, 2017 @05:23PM (#55166473)
    Is the equivalent of 12-40 large fuel trucks depending on how you count efficiency. @121MJ/L

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