The ThinkPad At 25 (fastcodesign.com) 94
harrymcc writes: On October 5 1992, IBM released a laptop called the ThinkPad 700C. It sported an unusually good color screen, a pointing device called the TrackPoint II, and a distinctive black case. It was an immediate hit. And remarkably, many of the things that made that ThinkPad a ThinkPad remain true of today's models. I talked to some of the people responsible for the line -- which IBM sold to Lenovo in 2005 -- about why it's one of the few consistent brands of technology's last quarter century.
Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint (Score:5, Interesting)
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The trackpoint is cool -- did you know you can get it on desktop keyboards too? Could I shamelessly plug this ebay auction for an IBM Model M4-1 keyboard: http://www.ebay.com/itm/253185... [ebay.com]
(It's a charity auction, I do not make any money from the sale, so I hope this avoids the accusation of spamming.)
The M4-1 is also part of the "Model M" family, although it does not use buckling springs.
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Unfortunately, after using a modern trackpoint, going back to that generation of trackpoint is annoying because it is not *nearly* as good as they are now.
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Re: Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint (Score:2)
There's also the Model M13, which is basically a M (buckling springs & all) with Trackpoint. The catch is, the left & right mouse buttons (below the spacebar) are badly-designed and wear out after 5-10 years. I have two M13 keyboards in a closet with worn-out buttons. I keep hoping someone will eventually make replacement buttons for it.
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I am a Thinkpad junkie. My personal laptop is a Thinkpad, and I use the trackpoint exclusively. I have the trackpad turned off. Annoys anyone else who tries to use it.
Amen brother! I'm typing this on a T420s. Dell has, (or had), some computers with trackpoints, but the buttons sucked. IBM / Lenovo seem to be the only ones who can do a trackpoint right. I've even done CAD, (schematics and PCB's), using a trackpoint. It's not as comfortable as using a mouse, but it's something I wouldn't even attempt on one of those annoying trackpads. Which, BTW, is turned off on my computer as well, because otherwise I get nuisance cursor movement when using the trackpoint. Thinkpads roc
Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought my first thinkpad in the late 90s. I bought my most recent one this year.
I got it with a touch screen so that my wife can use it when we travel. lol (so that I can leave the touchpad turned off; it annoys me)
I'm not really a fanboy though; I did shop around and look at the other laptops with a trackpoint equivalent. The thing is, nobody else wants to make one that is standards based so I can choose my own OS, looks like a boring business laptop, has a durable case, and is user serviceable. The touchscreen I wouldn't have minded going without.
The fingerprint scanner is a disappointment, but that's the only one.
The reason it is still awesome is because Lenovo understands the value. It isn't often a company buys a brand from another company, and also sees its value. Usually when that happens they have some sort of scheme to increase the value that destroys it completely. So props to Lenovo for acting like they're just Jr engineers updating the models and not changing the past decisions about it. It isn't IBM anymore, but it retains many of the product design qualities even today.
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This is one of the reasons I liked when they finally went to a clickable trackpad. I no longer have to disable it, I just disable tap-to-click and it's still nice to use sometimes. I use the trackpoint the vast majority of the time, occasionally the trackpad, and when someone uses my system for a second, they are never put out by their favored input method not working.
Of course I think their first clickable trackpad removed *all* the buttons, but the one I have is the generation after, with trackpoint and
Story Denied: Please Refile Under "Lenovo" (Score:3)
Neat laptop? Meh. I still have one and it still works. (It's a durable prop for small-audience "retro computing" talks.)
Did it keep up with the times? Well, like most of IBM, that's a big fat "no". And does anyone care? Prolly not.
Early thinkpads (Score:2)
Re: Those were the days... (Score:2)
How in the heck do you accidentally delete command.com? I was a heavy DOS user in the 90s and am boggling at that.
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You could try
del c:\command.com /F
or
del c:\command.com /A:HS
Add /S for more fun, though having 2 command.com files is indeed a old trick for those who got derfed regularly - finding the right command.com can be more trouble than worth, and hiding one is a nuisance.
There are more devious ways to munge the command executable...
Classics never go out of style (Score:5, Interesting)
The ThinkPad is still my favorite laptop brand, even with the changes Lenovo has done to it in the past. I liked them even when they were ridiculously expensive IBM machines and I couldn't get employers to buy them for me. Yes, it's boxy and boring compared to a MacBook Pro or other consumer laptops, but having that extra build quality helps when you're travelling. Lenovo did cheapen it a little bit in the name of margin, but it's not nearly as flimsy as other laptops in its class. When they were IBM laptops, you really got what you paid for in terms of rugged design (along with all the extra weight that entailed.)
The eternal problem with a classic design is knowing when to modernize it, what people like about it and what should/shouldn't change. A few years ago, they moved to a more industry-standard keyboard layout and people lost their minds. Getting rid of the older IBM keyboard turned a lot of people off, but I adjusted. What I hated was when they got rid of the physical trackpoint buttons in favor of this huge clickable trackpad button. That took only one generation for Lenovo to say "oops" and put them back...you had people swearing they would never give Lenovo another cent if they didn't address it.
Product designers should take note of the ThinkPad. Instead of trying to cater to hipsters at the expense of everyone else, there should at least be some consultation when deciding what features to add or drop. Some people don't care that their machine weighs and extra pound if it means that someone sitting on it won't totally destroy it. Lenovo makes a lot of money off ThinkPad customers compared to their incredibly low margin consumer models, so I'm sure that's the only reason they keep the classic design...but I know I'll be buying them until they're no longer useful for me.
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The Thinkpad remains a viable option when you don't quite need a Toughbook, but need something that can handle being lugged to random places daily and used on top of all manner of surfaces. Someone like an insurance adjuster, who does all of their real work at remote locations, is a good example of the Thinkpad demographic.
They're rugged, but not absurdly ruggedized like a pickup truck. If you need it to survive being handled like a briefcase, get a Toughbook.
The clitmouse is better than a t
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The keyboard stuff is hilarious. I thought the chiclet keys would be awful, but they're great.
I bought one of the lowest rated models; I wanted a full keyboard with keypad, and it loses about 1.5 stars on Lenovo's own site because it is stuffed full of idiot reviews about hating having a full keyboard because when they put it on their lap(!) their hands are in a slightly non-optimal position.
The good thing is that keeps the model priced lower than the others, (it is actually cheaper than the exact same thin
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I'll even go one step further. With the previous keyboard, they would *always* leave marks on the screen when closed. I have not seen that phenoenon on any of the chiclet key models.
I was terrified it would be like Acer or Toshiba chiclet keyboards I tried, but the feel is really good and I don't miss the old keyboard at all. I did miss the buttons for trackpoint, but with them back I'm fine.
The one annoyance I have remaining is the function keys doing double duty as volume control. I'd at *least* like
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I'm pretty happy with the function key stuff since the function lock allows all the setting combinations.
On linux the extra non-media keys for calculator, browser, mail, and the other one are just launchers. Even a backwards person like me using xfce gets easy access to those without having to muck with key mappings. You could just do use pactl to set the mute with one of those.
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Yeah, but I don't like having to hit Fn-F1 and Fn-F4 to mute speaker/mic when suddenly I'm in a meeting and something auto-plays. Alternatively, I'd despise having to hit fn-f1 to hit f1 when I need f1. And it's not one of those modal things where toggling fnlk makes it any better moment to moment.
Fine for the other special keys, I never urgently need to mess with brightness, I prefer the native OS shortcut for spawning multi-monitor/projector management, I never need to cut wireless and if I do it's neve
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On linux the projector button already just brings up the OS display dialog.
You didn't like, install vendor software and drivers, did you?!
But I suspect even on low quality operating systems you can still remap keys. There is probably even a command line mute program you could launch from "print screen." I understand wanting the defaults to be your favorites, but you can have the actual capability you desire anyways.
I really can't imagine even walking into the room a meeting will be held in carrying technolo
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Some professions take a large number of screenshots though, so it isn't really that surprising. A lot of people do it recreationally, too.
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Yeah, that one generation was nuts, also had the premium laptop with no function keys and home and end where capslock is. What crazy sort of company replaces the F-keys with a touch strip ;)
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My brand new thinkpad does not have a glossy screen....
Yes they are widescreen... just like everybody else...
The keyboard is still decent. It feels as nice despite being a chiclet. The shallower keys leave my screen looking nicer when opened, and if you *did* care about the sort of thing, keyboard backlight is nicer than thinklight was, but I never use that either way.
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Well the X1 tablet is 3:2, but despite being very good for a tablet keyboard, it's still not as care free as a real hard attached keyboard in terms of opening it up on your lap.
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Glossy screens!
What? Our entire company uses Thinkpads, ranging from T420s to T470s and the equivalent X-series. Not a single one of them has a glossy screen.
Widescreen!
Yes, like literally every single other laptop on the market. I'll let you in on a secret: Unless you select the absolute bargain basement 1366x768 shit screen option that literally only exists to hit a marketing price point, the available screens have the same vertical resolution as your beloved 4:3 screens, PLUS additional horizontal space.
Not even a decent keyboard any longer!
The chiclet keyboard is gr
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There are certainly laptops available with higher resolution displays, but you have to pay for them.
All of the T470 models can be had with a 2560x1440 display, and the P51 can be had with a 4K (3840x2160) display.
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Re: 16:10 ratio screen please.. please please. (Score:2)
Even BETTER would be a Thinkpad with 12.9" 4:3 2732x2048 display (like Apple's largest iPad Pro).
Or maybe a 17-18" high-ppi widescreen that can be configured to pretend it's a side-by-side 3:4 portrait & 4:3 landscape display (aspect ratios approximate). Why "pretend"? Because Windows puts two smaller monitors to better, more-efficient use than a single widescreen having identical total resolution.
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Ratio doesn't matter. Vertical resolution matters. As long as you get the same or better vertical resolution, having extra horizontal space is quite nice.
Old Thinkpads (Score:2)
I am still looking forward to taking possession of my fathers old IBM Thinkpad. He passed away early this year and his Thinkpad is still on his desk, I suspect. I am four states away so I will need to wait until Christmas to get it. It's one of the Pentium 1 generation, which I don't know if that makes it first generation or not. He bought it with the IBM Employees Discount, though. I have had the fear for some months now that my mother will listen to some 'security moron' and have the hard drive on it
I'm solidly in the Apple ecosystem, (Score:3)
Thinkpads still rock (Score:2)
Even the old ones are still pretty great.
IBM PC Convertible II (Score:2)
That was my first computer.
I got it used shortly after the original Pentium came out. I loved it. Real mechanical keyboard with slightly smaller than normal keys, it was actually EASIER to type on than a normal keyboard. First IBM compatible PC with 3.5" floppies if I'm not mistaken. The half-height LCD screen made Battle Chess hilarious to play with all the little short-fat chess pieces. Using the function key was exceedingly easy and made far more sense than it does on a modern Think Pad, not to ment
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And they are repairable! (Score:4, Insightful)
I have bought several for myself and family. The one feature that keeps me a customer is that the things are repairable! Unlike any other laptop I have owned, these things can be taken apart and serviced with minimal issues. And the service documentation is superb. I have replaced power connectors, hinges, cooling fans and keyboards in addition to the usual memory and hard drive changes. Glad Lenovo hasn't changed that!
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always a ton of parts and off lease laptops on ebay
Just recently bought a T420 with 16GB RAM, i7 processor, and a 250GB SSD from ebay. Got it for about what I would expect to pay for a new crap consumer grade laptop with lower specs. But this thing is fantastic. I put Linux (Mint 17.3 Cinnamon) on it, everything works with no issues, and it just flies for my workloads.
Re: And they are repairable! (Score:2)
Dell's Precision laptops are equally-repairable. They're practically SFF desktop workstations in laptop form.
Upgrades I've done over the years:
* added mSATA SSD
* replaced original 500-gig hybrid drive with 2TB drive, and configured mSATA drive w/64-gig cache partition for new HD.
* added 2x4 gigs of RAM
* upgraded the original non-Intel mPCIe wifi to a better (MIMO-capable) 802.11ac Intel card (the original card left one of the factory-installed antennas unused)
* replaced the original Quadro K1100m video card
Still a happy customer (Score:2)
Best power cord I ever had (Score:2)
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I have (Score:2)
I have two T40s. They're that old they have non-PAE processors, I had to use live-build to make a respin of Kali for them when XP support ended. One doesn't boot at all and the other has an intermittent backlight. They're scheduled for surgery next week.
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so they're to blame for the trackpoint (Score:2)
I've had a few laptops with trackpoints, and I kept bumping into them while typing. This would inevitably select the last few lines I'd written, then the next keystroke would overwrite the selection.
After the first few such errors, every laptop I had had its trackpoint disabled within 5 minutes of the first boot. Placing a joystick in the middle of the keyboard has to be one of the dumbest decisions ever made.
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I've never had a trackpoint, but was thinking it might solve that one. Nope?
And people scorned the manuf (Acer?) who once put the trackpad above the keyboard instead of below.
Obviously most users either don't or can't touch type. If you do your palm WILL hit the trackpad.
It's especially bad for proficient touch typists as you might only look up e
Racing Stripes (Score:2)
I always liked the red "racing stripes" on the mouse buttons on my first two Thinkpads. Unfortunately IBM/Lenovo left them off my X60S (which is what I am using right now). If they've been restored, however, I will probably consider a Thinkpad again in the future after this machine gets too old.
I used to be a fan (Score:2)
I really liked the design of the IBM thinkpads, they really paid attention to details which agreed with me. Admittedly, I'm not a typical laptop user, and that's why current thinkpads are dead to me. They have pretty much dropped all the unique features that made the devices more convenient for engineers and programmers.
The main thing now is, why pay a premium for a device which is marginally different to the entry level stuff in terms of function, or at least, imperceptibly different from the mid range?
I p
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They have pretty much dropped all the unique features that made the devices more convenient for engineers and programmers.
Such as?
The main thing now is, why pay a premium for a device which is marginally different to the entry level stuff in terms of function, or at least, imperceptibly different from the mid range?
Because they're better built, more reliable, easy to repair and have amazing parts availability? Only HP and Dell come close to matching that, and they're still far behind.
I participated in the retro thinkpad surveys (looks like that has gone nowhere)
It's coming out, with an oldschool 7-row keyboard and all.
I recall a memo from lenovo, regarding their concern about losing a lot of business sales to macbooks. Well my sentiment is when you start dropping features to make your product more like a macbook, as a customer why should I go for some wannabe, might as well just go for the real thing. Similarly, if they're going to make the product rather indistinguishable in function from entry level to mid range devices, why bother spending premium dollars?
As I mentioned above, because Thinkpads are better built, more reliable, easy to repair and have amazing parts availability.
Try changing the battery on a Macbook. Heck, try changing anything on a Macbook. I hope you have an Apple Store nearby.
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Such as?
It has kind of been a bunch of small things for me, which I've more or less listed; big one is the keyboard layout, but also features like the thinklight, lid latches, i personally prefer them, I think the build quality has gotten worse, may be better than the competition, but offerings I've seen from dell and HP are significantly better than they once were, and they do have a very premium feel, albeit, also have those cheap features which the thinkpads now have. Also screen aspect ratio; 16:9 has no place
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16:9 has no place on a machine for "those who do", extra vertical pixels go a long way to help with many things in productivity related tasks.
You can easily get laptops with 1440 or 2160 vertical pixels (Thinkpad T470 and P51, respectively), so what exactly is the drawback to the extra horizontal pixels when compared to a 4:3 of similar vertical resolution? Extra horizontal resolution is wonderful for terminals, documentation and various side bars, further freeing up vertical space. People complain about not having 4:3 screens anymore, and I will concede that there was a couple of years where 1080p was the biggest you could get, but we've had mas
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I'm talking about 16:10 or 3:2 display ratios, relative to 16:9 they have more vertical space at the same width and they're just much better to use. going to 2560x1440 or 4k, they're still 16:9 aspect ratios, and rather annoying to use.
There's a reason apple persist with 16:10 on their macbooks. It's a small detail, but an important one for some.
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Like anything else, Thinkpads suck with Windows on them. Install Linux and be happy. Mint installed flawlessly on my T420 and everything works out of the box (except hibernate, which is for scrubs, anyway).
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My understanding is that superfish was not installed on the Thinkpad line. I did get it with my Lenovo Y50 but it was a non-issue for me since I usually run Linux. My last Thinkpad was a T500 which IIRC was produced after Lenovo bought IBM's laptop business. It was returned twice for a loose charging connection and the fix never lasted more than a month or two. I purchased a Lenovo Y50 after that and it has fared worse than my Thinkpads. That's good to hear your Thinkpad is still working well. I don't see m
My first Thinkpad (Score:2)
My first Thinkpad was a 750Cs. I've owned a bunch along the way, upgrading every three years or so. My most recent Thinkpad is a T500. All of them still run. The T500 has an annoyingly loose charging cable socket and for which I returned it twice and which went bad again shortly after return. That was my first inkling that quality and support had slipped. My most recent Lenovo is a Y50 which I'm using to type this. The screen was crap (and which I replaced with an IPS panel.) The case is cracked near the hi