Dutch Government Confirms Plan To Ban New Petrol, Diesel Cars By 2030 (electrek.co) 349
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: Today, the new Dutch government presented its detailed plan for the coming years and it includes making all new cars emission-free by 2030 -- virtually banning petrol- and diesel-powered cars in favor of battery-powered vehicles. The four coalition parties have been negotiating their plans since the election in March and now after over 200 days, they have finally released the plan they agreed upon. NL Times posted all the main points of the plan and in "transportation," it includes: By 2030 all cars in the Netherlands must be emission free. While some local publications are reporting "all cars," we are told that it would be for "all new cars" as it is the case for the countries with similar bans under consideration. The potential for the ban has been under consideration in the country since last year. The year 2025, like in Norway, has been mentioned, but they apparently decided for the less ambitious goal of 2030.
In 2100 I will start to lead a good life (Score:2)
Promise.
Stations (Score:2)
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It has already happened with the CCS standard.
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It depends on what you mean.
* Tesla wants other manufacturers to use its superchargers, even though only ones with power systems designed by Tesla can use them at present. Namely because the vast majority have low utilization, and Tesla would make a profit off of each usage. So far, none have accepted, but they keep trying.
* Neither CHAdeMO nor CCS are "proprietary" - but again, if the vehicle doesn't support one or the other (either innately or with an adaptor), it can't use them. Also, un
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I'm really excited about CharIN. I just hope they don't make it some small incremental improvement and have to go back and replace it, and its successor, etc, etc five times more as charge powers keep increasing. They better design it for 1-2MW if they want to "futureproof" it (note that to hit the max rate without an unreasonable-thickness cable and unreasonable requirements for vehicle-side heat dissipation, it'll have an optional coolant supply in the cable).
I also hope that they don't make it a giant Fr
No more diesel/petrol cars! (Score:2)
Lets hear it for bro-trucks [tumblr.com]!
As for motorcycles... (Score:5, Funny)
... The link also says "The cabinet is banning criminal motorcycle gangs."
I'm glad the legal gangs with their electric scooters aren't being targeted.
(Just gave up my right to mod this article for this post)
Powered by ... what, exactly? (Score:2)
Re:Powered by ... what, exactly? (Score:4, Informative)
You and your wife both drive 150-200 miles/day? Like, 60,000 miles/year? While consuming only 11kWh/day for your home? Surely your numbers are off...
Either way, if your home is capable of running a clothes dryer you should be able to re-charge electric no problem. I drive 50 miles a day (which I consider a pretty shitty commute) and recharge off a standard 110v no problem.
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Yeah, I think this is a legit (if overblown) concern with the 80 miles range cars, depending on how far you drive. But once you get to 220 miles (like the low-end version of Tesla 3), who spontaneously drives 220 miles?
Furthermore, at least in the Bay Area, there are several hundred chargers in the city I'm in and surroundings. Including a bunch of them at my work. So if by some chance I do run into an emergency it's not really a problem.
There's no denying that having the ability to quickly re-fuel is an
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Give us numbers. What is "across town", for example? Let's say you meant 15 miles on the highway (non-highway driving goes further for a given amount of energy). And let's say you're driving a Tesla Model 3. Adding 15 miles at home on 32A charger (the minimum AC charger) takes only half an hour. By contrast, adding 15 miles of range at a supercharger takes only 3,5 minutes on the SR (2,6 minutes on the LR).
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I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Saying "if it's too hard then it won't work" when you're the one making it hard is totally unfair. You're saying it doesn't work. Either prove it yourself or give us the information needed to prove or disprove your case for you.
And you probably don't. But you refuse to give any actual details, so who the bloody hell knows?
What you're doing is like saying "My site won't load in browsers on Android. I haven't tried
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So the average Dutch family drives 400 miles/day? (Score:2)
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you forgetting to consider how much less the Danish drive in general ?
Life in the Netherlands (Score:3, Informative)
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This sounds horrible. Why don't more Dutch people move to Texas.
Stop all the banning (Score:2)
Reading about every country's new plans to ban gas/diesel cars by some totally arbitrary date in the future makes me weep thinking of all the lawyer time that is no doubt going into drafting the legislation, all the politicians time going into debating and discussing with it, etc. This is money going down the sink that is not helping a problem that we need to solve now. And we can!@#
If they're going to put their fingers on the scales, why not just stop doing all this shit and put every dollar you'd spend o
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Re:What happens (Score:5, Informative)
I hope you're able to make enough Lithium batteries for 2 billion cars a year.
Nonsense. There aren't 2 billion cars on earth, and even if there were they would not all need to be replaced in one year.
There are about 60 million cars made per year. With the expected shift to on-demand SDC taxis, that could decline dramatically.
Known lithium reserves are about 15 million tonnes. A car with a 300 km range uses about 10kg of lithium. So we have enough for 1.5 billion cars, or about enough to replace every gas car on earth.
Of course, new lithium reserves will be found, and as a fallback we can extract lithium from geologic brine, or even the oceans which contain about 230 billion tonnes (enough for 30 trillion cars).
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So we are replacing 'known oil reserves' with 'Known lithium reserves' now.
What happens after we reach 'peak battery production'? They guy asking about batteries for 2 billion cars per year was emotionally modded to oblivion but it's a very valid question.
Charging a battery may be renewable, but those batteries need to be replaced after a certain life-cycle as well.
Worldwide Hoomans produce more than 60 million cars. There's presently about 1.05 billion cards on the roads today and increasing. 2 Billion for
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One HUGE difference between Lithium and oil... the lithium is not used up when the battery reaches the end of its life. Oil is converted to water and carbon dioxide. The lithium remains in the battery. It can be recycled.
"Known Lithium Reserves" is not an estimate on the total amount of lithium on the earth. It is an _very_ conservative estimate of the amount of lithium that can be economically recovered using known, proven sources of lithium.
As lithium prices rise, reserves increase because if becomes econ
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To be fair. Self driving taxis are something i would look forward to. Uber at its best. Especially if they could be so cheap that you could take them to work every day. Especially in Europe with its cozy city's with small streets this might significantly reduce car ownership in the city and clean up the streets. Its also better for the environment in other ways. As more people could use the same car during a day. Instead of standing by idle in front of the house or the office. Lower taxi prices during non-r
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I think the real world will be different. These cars will never be clean, be full of graffiti and other stuff like baby poo, animal shit and germs, unless they are cleaned after every trip, which makes them much more expensive.
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These cars will never be clean, be full of graffiti and other stuff like baby poo, animal shit and germs, unless they are cleaned after every trip, which makes them much more expensive.
If that is a real concern, then automakers will make low-end AVs for plebes that are trivial to clean, and they will be cleaned more often. City buses are often designed in this way, and while they are nasty and uncomfortable places to be, you'll be able to pay just a bit more to ride in something with upholstery.
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I think that will indeed happen but then driving in one of those will still not be a very pleasant experience. So I am not convinced cars that can be used by everyone will become as popular as some people would like.
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So I am not convinced cars that can be used by everyone will become as popular as some people would like.
The cars that can be used by everyone cheaply will be that. But there will also be cars that can be used by anyone with a couple of dollars to rub together, and they will be nicer, and people will use them. And so on up the chain, until you finally reach people who will still be able to afford to own their own AVs in the future.
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Remember that they need to be called by an app, so the car company knows who's in them, and there will be cameras. If the person after you complains about a problem, they look at the previous journey(s), catch the culprit and charge them for the clean or ban them.
Meanwhile the person that complains can wait for another car.
Taxis work, even without the facility for banning people. There's no reason these couldn't work with that ability.
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Inescapable poverty is an immediate precursor to revolution.
Do you have any Somalian subscribers to your newsletter?
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Re:What happens (Score:5, Funny)
One made in Germany...
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+1 mod this up.
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I don't know. England has been known to make a few nice cars.
https://cdn.jamesedition.com/m... [jamesedition.com]
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"I don't know. England has been known to make a few nice cars."
Yes, nice cars, yes.
Reliable cars, on the other hand...
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That's why God made reliable mechanics.
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To be fair Kia Souls are generally acknowledged as being very good cars. They look a little weird but then again so do most Slashdot commentators.
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Thanks for dismissing all the people in my country based on a few bad experiences with some of them.
About the cars: that happens now already and will not change much during the transition to electric. I don't think fossil fuels will be banned soon. many other things than cars use them.
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Driven by manufacturers.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Dont forget where this legislation is coming from.
Car manufacturers love this idea.
Phase 1 is to move all new cars to electric - its actually quite a bit cheaper to make (engines/drive trains are horrible complex)
Phase 2 is then, of course, to ramp up 'pollution taxes' on the existing fleet of non-electrics, to 'transition' everyone to electric.
ie: a huge force to push people to purchase new vehicles.
It will be interested to see where they will build the obsolescence in to the new cars, so we need to buy a new one every 5-10 years.
I am guessing it will mostly be in the battery packs initially, with a lot of work going in to making sure they cannot be economically swapped,
and their lifespan is not too much to get in the way of profit.
Longer term I would expect new regulations to 'remove unsafe older electric vehicles' from the road for a bunch of made up reasons.
Just follow the money. Sad but true.
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Re:Driven by manufacturers.. (Score:4, Informative)
Because of this, and a few other reasons that don't have a lot to do with cars specifically, the initial electric vehicles are going to be luxury items. The expense in setting up factories and build the new components needed for electric vehicles and the limited production capacity until they can ramp up over several years practically dictates a need to sell at a high price. You can't make mass market consumer products when you have very limited production capacity. Musk at least realizes the need to get to a mass market point, because he saw how Ford was able to reap the rewards of doing just that roughly a century earlier. Until then, it's necessary to add bells and whistles so you can mark up the price even more and target high-end buyers who can afford to pay above raw value in terms of utility.
Re: Driven by manufacturers.. (Score:2)
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It depends what part of the market you're referring to. Econoboxes? Gasoline vehicles are cheaper. High performance vehicles? EVs are cheaper. The balance point between the two steadily moves down. A base Tesla Model 3 - without including subsidies or accounting for the operating cost price difference - comes with more standard features and space at the same price [electrek.co] as a BMW 330i (and just to head anyone off, and whether you want to believe them or not, literally every reviewer who's been in it has raved o
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Start reading reviews. Here, I'll help - some excerpts and links. Let me know which of these are some sort of Tesla shills:
Motor Trend [motortrend.com]:
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As for why its handling is so good, in large part:
1) It's surprisingly light. The SR version, at 3549 lbs / 1610 kg, is lighter than average for its class, while the LR version, at 3814 lbs / 1730 kg, is still far from the heaviest in its class. Note that the reviewers above were driving the LR - the SR should handle even better.
2) The CG is low. This is standard for all "designed from the ground up" EVs, not just the Model 3, and minimizes body roll.
3) The polar moment of inertia is abnormally low. Diagr
Re:Driven by manufacturers.. (Score:4, Interesting)
That's not actually how it works for the major functions. Station controls, volume, fan speed, etc are handled by steering wheel controls; control via the touchscreen for these things is intended mainly for the passenger (and there's also voice control). In the case of wipers, the vehicle has rain sensors. That said, if you want to override the sensors, you can flip the stick up for a manual wipe, and that automatically triggers the wiper settings on the touchscreen if you want to change it. The car obviously has a thermostat and uses that as the primary interface for temperature control.
Currently some features are disabled (the car is basically in beta right now, whether they want to call it that or not - not like the current owners much care ;) ), such as FM (rather than streaming) radio and voice. Also, currently the right steering wheel control (both are dual axis + click) is disabled; eventually you'll be able to assign all the controls to whatever features you want.
As for the touchscreen itself, it's not your typical automotive touchscreen (and I'm not just talking about responsiveness). The two main differences (which I'm sure you've noticed standing out in pictures) is that A) it's very large, and B) it's out on a stalk. The latter places it immediately to the side of the steering wheel, putting it easily into your peripheral view and means you don't have to "reach" for anything. This, combined with A), also means that the buttons are very large - far larger than a normal car manual controls. The vent control box, for example, is about 4" / 10cm wide. Anyone who doesn't have the coordination to hit a 4" box immediately beside their steering wheel without leaning in and staring doesn't have the hand-eye coordination to be driving in the first place. It lets you control both of your vents at once (rather than one at a time), and without any leaning and searching for a little guide nub.
The screen real estate is laid out based on how close it is to your peripheral. The upper left is the prime real estate, around the same point where the right end of a wide dash display would be. This displays your speed, range, and any status indicators. The area immediately below this is the area for controls that the driver may want to push when driving - all large large buttons, and which can be triggered by driver actions (such as the example of the wipers). Since the rim itself is a physical guide, there's also "always on" buttons in fixed positions at the bottom of the screen. The rest of the display is for "lower priority" information that doesn't expect much interaction - the nav display, information about the music you're listening to, etc.
Yes, it is unconventional. But it's also not a normal car touchscreen. And the "early adopters" have all described it as very easy to get used to and interact with. This wasn't just something tacked on without having been tried it out.
Model 3s are just beginning to hit showrooms - only a few have gotten them so far (just the past couple days), but most expect them by December or January. Do give it a try if you're not sure. :)
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The flaw in your conspiracy theory is that battery electric vehicles are costing manufacturers a lot to develop and cost more to manufacture right now. They also need to get the batteries somehow, which means building new battery factories or doing major long term deals with existing manufacturers.
Given the choice they would prefer to carry on selling the same cars they already sunk vast amounts of money into developing.
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I think it's very worthwhile to know how the manufacturers see it and the overall pattern seems to be that they strongly approve of increasing regulation which forces people to transition to more advanced and more expensive goods. That does not necessarily mean it's bad for us, just that their interests are a large part of it. Maybe too large a part, and they are not deciding everything by themselves, but certainly there is a heavy lobbying part that is kept out of view. Take safety. Car safety creates a ma
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When there's not enough electric cars by 2030?
Who cares? By 2030, most of these politicians will be out of office, so dealing with the consequences will be someone else's problem.
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"Who cares? By 2030, most of these politicians will be out of office, so dealing with the consequences will be someone else's problem."
Not only they won't be there to deal with consequences; they won't be there to enforce their rulings either.
In a democracy, any "ruling" that goes beyond the election cycle (much more if it's meant to *start* beyond the election cycle) is basically nothing more than words in the wind.
Re:What happens (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe in the USA where it is apparently the norm to repeal decisions of the previous government purely out of spite, but in Europe legislation can easily survive for centuries.
Re: What happens (Score:2)
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Here's how I see that panning out. The tax on the gas cars will raise the price. Whether it's a percentage or a flat rate per car the price will become invisible in time, people just won't notice it much like how people don't think much about a sales tax. The same will happen for the electric vehicles, any subsidy on their sale will become invisible to the buyer.
To further cover up the tax on gas cars the car makers will do one of two things. They could make cheaper cars, where the engine is a bit small
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Congratulations, you have now created a wealth redistribution system that taxes the poor to pay rich people to buy luxury cars.
You do understand that's the system that we have now, right? Electric cars - which are expensive toys for the upper middle class and upper classes - are highly subsidized in every way, including a direct rebate to buyers that comes out of tax revenue. So poor people are paying taxes that goes directly in the pocket of wealthier people.
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upfront, more expensive.
but total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle? same or less.
and subsidies can help poor purchasers too, not just wealthy.
your hypothetical falls apart.
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" Instead an increasing levy on vehicles that produce emmissions"
I just bought a "new" car. It was $11000, for a 2011 model year with 40k on it in nearly pristine condition, and a mid-level trim level (so it has a few options and upgrades, air, heated seats, etc...)
How much are you going to subsidize a new electric car to make it price competitive to that?
People will flock to electric when it's cheaper. But trying to force it with tax and subsidy... just amounts to, as the other poster said, taking money fr
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Calling a 6-7 year-old car a "new car" is funny. You can get a 6-7 year-old Leaf with 40k on it in pristine condition for a lot cheaper than that [ebay.com]. And then drive it for a lot cheaper. And pay less on maintenance. And because it's a cheaper car, pay less on insurance.
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You can get a 6-7 year-old Leaf with 40k on it in pristine condition for a lot cheaper than that.
But then you have to be in a Leaf. He said he got something with a nice interior, and if that was a requirement, then a Leaf was not in the running. Also, an old EV without a transferable lifetime battery warranty is going to have significant additional costs at some point. An ICE-based vehicle might, if something goes badly wrong.
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Leaf warranties are transferable (although they're not "nice" interiors, to be fair ;) ) For a nice interior on the used market, something like the BMW i3 [ebay.com]. Eventually there will be Model 3s on the used market, but that day is not today. Also, Teslas tend to depreciate rather slowly compared to other EVs.
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I just bought a "new" car. It was $11000, for a 2011 model year with 40k on it in nearly pristine condition, and a mid-level trim level (so it has a few options and upgrades, air, heated seats, etc...)
How much are you going to subsidize a new electric car to make it price competitive to that?
Why are you comparing a used ICE car against a new electric car? You are not in the market for a new ICE car, then you're not in the market for a new electric car. However, compare the 6 year old ICE car against a used six year old electric car. Sure, people who only buy used cars will be buying ICEs for longer as it takes time for the used market to get older EVs in the supply chain. IF EVs take off, then the poor will probably be still driving older clunky ICEs for quite some time just as they drive older
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the current subsidies help to get relatively rich people to buy electric cars
And where is the subsidy money actually coming from?
In effect, the relatively rich people are now subsidizing the future second hand market for electrical cars.
Sure...they're just not doing it with their own money.
When I buy a GTX 1080 I'm subisizing the development of future graphics cards, and I'm dumping my GTX980 onto the secondary market to boot. But the government isn't giving me a handout to do it, so that system works.
With electric vehicles, the 'poorer' are helping paying for the 'richer' to buy new cars. The idea that its for their own good long term since it'll put more electric used vehicles into the
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People have retrofit old carbureted cars to run on syngas driven by very rich burning wood fires. Very dirty and doable, so get off your ass.
You will have to figure out a way to routinely clean the intake and exhaust. Mostly intake. Keep it simple, you might be weekly soaking engine parts to keep it running.
The look on the pius drivers faces will make it worth it. When you jump out of the car at a red to feed the fire. Better still, hire a child to ride in the back as a stoker.
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If I were running my car on wood gas, I'd want to use wood pellets as fuel. You can buy sacks of them at any Wal-Mart or hardware store, and they lend themselves to self-feeding mechanisms.
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You could get a gassifier (like this [allpowerlabs.com], although this model is currently out of stock) and feed that to your car. A skilled mechanic shouldn't have too much trouble with it. If you wanted to show off that you were burning coal, you could have a window installed on the stainless hopper.
Do be careful, though - a large portion of the mass of coal gas is carbon monoxide; that's one of the key things that's combusting when you burn it. The combustion plus your cat shouldn't make the exhaust unusually problematic,
Re:There they go again (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll admit I can't be bothered to RTFA. But, from what I'm seeing, they're banning gasoline & diesel engines.
It doesn't sounds to me like they're picking "winners." Electric, hydrogen fuel cell, hydrogen IC, and CNG should all pass, as well as cars that run on smugness, self-satisfaction, or pixie dust. What fails is gasoline and diesel.
So it sounds more like they picked the "losers."
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The current road tax system in .nl is based on emissions (more CO2 = more tax). No reason to assume this new plan will be implemented differently.
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It doesn't sounds to me like they're picking "winners."
But, they are. The right answer is to set emissions targets, and anyone who can meet them can sell a product. If you set a lifetime emissions limit that you don't think can be hit by a liquid-fueled car, it still leaves the door open for future technologies. The right thing to do is to base it on lifetime emissions, though, not just while the vehicle is in operation.
Re:There they go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Then it's going to turn out that manufacturing and remanufacturing batteries en masse is a dirty and expensive business
It seems the Koch brothers propaganda and smear tactics are working well on some people.
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Is it just propaganda and conspiracy theory? Let's look at the past, starting when cars started to be "evil", which to be seems to be about the time that there was an effort to remove lead from gasoline. I'm not saying that removing lead from gasoline was bad, I see little evidence to suggest this practice should have continued once we realized the risks it posed. What it did though was seemingly start a cascade of events.
We got our unleaded gasoline, that's good. Then came smaller, more efficient cars.
Re:There they go again (Score:5, Interesting)
1) All cars have greatly increased in safety over time, not just smaller cars. How anyone could interpret this as a bad thing is beyond me. And vehicle sizes vary alongside the cost to purchase and operate them, which should surprise nobody; no conspiracy or "value judgement" is required.
2) Since when has anyone seen natural gas vehicles as "bad"? They've never been popular, but that's not the same as "bad".
3) Corn ethanol has never been popular among environmentalists; they've been someone of the most adamant opponents. Some support other biofuels, such as algal biodiesel or switchgrass ethanol, but others don't support any biofuels at all. As for corn ethanol, it's popular among farmers (and consequently, their representatives in congress).
4) No, EV batteries don't contain heavy metals (like your gasoline vehicle's battery does). The worst things that they contain (and which aren't a fundamental requirement) are nickel and cobalt (like you find in stainless steel alloys - minus the much more problematic chromium). Nickel has contact sensitivity, but you're not going to be wearing EV cathodes as earrings. Both have health effects as dusts or soluble salts (not at abnormally low concentrations, mind you) - but neither are in the form of dusts or soluble salts, they're in the form of inert oxides (less prone to leaching than even stainless steel). Minor leaching from battery packs would actually be a good thing, mind you, because large chunks of the world's grasslands are cobalt deficient, which hinders B12 production (cobalamin). Not that you'd actually leave them just sitting around, because nickel and cobalt are valuable ($10 and $50/kg, respectively), and the cathodes are surprisingly similar to rich nickel-cobalt ores already.
5) Yes, there always will be something better because that's what the advancement in technology leads to. If you don't like that, go Amish.
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I will tell you know, by 2030 this plan will fail or be extended. or ended if people wake up to realize climate change is a lie.
I would suggest that you go preach your bullshit to the people fighting the fires currently ravaging wine country in California. Then get a bullhorn and tell everybody who is running to get the hell out of the fire zones that climate change is a lie and that if they will just listen to the anti-science nutjobs there is nothing to worry about. Tell them they have nothing to worry about because very soon a radical swing to winter floods will start and what is left of their neighborhoods will have plenty of wa
Re:There they go again (Score:4, Interesting)
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Unlike you, the politicians recognise that we need to stop emitting extreme amounts of greenhouse gases. And all of the negatives are fixable or no change - gasoline is explosive, it wouldn't power cars otherwise. And China are becoming the new Japan, they are quite capable of producing quality goods if they want to.
Re:There they go again (Score:4, Informative)
Environmentalists have hated corn ethanol from the beginning (they've been more mixed on biodiesel, but most are not fans). Corn ethanol has the support of midwest farmers and their senators / reps, not environmentalists. Direct your complaints to farmers and their reps.
It isn't. Do we really need to go into the endless number of peer-reviewed studies that have been conducted on lifecycle assessments of EVs? The short of it is that while low volume EVs may embody about twice the manufacturing pollution of a gasoline vehicle, a mass-manufactured EV embodies only slightly more (depending on the study and its assumptions, around 15%), and regardless, in both cases, pollution from operation vastly outweighs pollution from usage, and both end up recycled, with about 70% average recovery of embodied pollution on the EV. And all this ignores the fact that many manufacturers are working to have their EV production 100% solar driven.
Sorry, that's not how batteries work; you're thinking of rockets. There is no "fuel and oxidizer" reaction in an EV. Lithium-ion batteries work by the migration of lithium ions across a barrier, either intercalated into graphite and/or silicon on the anode side, or into a mixed metal oxide (such as nickel-cobalt-aluminum oxide) or similar structure on the cathode side. Intercalated = they fill up the interstitial sites in their host compound.
Secondly, you betray a complete lack of understanding of chemistry with your statement. How "dangerous" a substance is is not linearly related to its energy density. Nitroglycerin has an energy density of 6,37 MJ/kg. A block of aluminum has an energy density of 31 MJ/kg. Which one is safer? The volumetric difference between the two is even greater, BTW.
Third, there's an implicit "all else being equal" in your argument. But all else is not equal. In a gasoline car, the fuel is just poured into a big open tank in your vehicle. In an EV, there's a huge array of safety measures - cell expansion space, individual cell rupture isolation, active cooling, passive quench, controlled venting, etc, etc. Rates of EV fires have been much lower than rates of gasoline fires; the packs are so difficult to burn that you can sometimes burn the rest of the car [electrek.co] without igniting the pack. And when you do force the ignition of a pack, here's what happens [electrek.co] (that's Powerwall, but the tech is the same as in Tesla's vehicles).
Everyone talks of every single fire incident in EVs, while ignoring that ~200k gasoline cars catch fire and burn every year in the US alone. The per mile rate for EVs is much lower.
While it's possible to buy an EV for 100k or more (just like it's possible to buy a $100k+ gasoline car), the overwhelming majority on the market are far cheaper than that.
None of the popular EVs outside China are "Chinese garbage". The most popular are Tesla, GM, Nissan / Renault, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, and BMW. There are some additional brands that sell a lot inside China, but almost nothing outside of it.
Freedom of movement (Score:2)
Do not worry, the self driving cars will deal with that pretty soon. No steering wheel.
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We'll hack bluetooth controllers into them. Day one.
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Buy electric and its all cool. No new tax.
Dont buy electric and risk having to pay again and again for driving that luxury import.
Then one day its an electric pod, a bigger electric pod. An electric van or truck for people who can really prove they need that kind of transport for work.
The free market feels the full force of socialism.
Free to import a car or drive an antique on select private roads and tracks but a limited selection of new elect
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Have you seen the price of whale oil lately? Of course markets decide, technology drives cost changes, some things can't compete at all.
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That's a distinction without a difference.
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That's a distinction without a difference.
It's a distinction with an enormous difference -- around 90% difference, which is the proportion of vehicles which are not replaced every year.
As for the volumes... The Netherlands buys about 400K vehicles per year. That's not going to be a problem given the number of car manufacturers tooling up for EVs. How they're going to manage charging for all of the apartment dwellers that park on the street, that may be a problem. But, I think, a manageable one. Especially since most of those apartment dwellers wi
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It's a distinction with an enormous difference -- around 90% difference, which is the proportion of vehicles which are not replaced every year.
So, you are saying that the difference is that instead of replacing all cars, new and old, is distinct from replacing only new cars sold? Cars wear out and get replaced. I recall the typical lifespan of a car is about 10 years. I don't know if that was an average, median, half life, or whatever, or if it wasn't 12 years or 8. My point is that banning ownership of all petroleum cars versus merely banning the sale of new petroleum cars is a difference of perhaps a decade of CO2 emitting cars on the roads.
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Beer warehouse, duh.
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And when the power to gas pumps stop working, everything grinds to a halt as well.
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And when the power to gas pumps stop working, everything grinds to a halt as well.
What a brain-damaged comment: You don't need an electric pump to pour petrol into the car, nor to get it out the storage tank. Any fuel station located in a slightly elevated position can siphon out the last drop of fuel from the storage tank using only gravity.
Besides, I may not even need it due to the range - I can go a month on a full tank. If power is gone for a month we have bigger problems than getting to work.
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Meanwhile, here's what living through natural disasters is actually like [dailykos.com] with EVs.
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In 2015 28.8% of the EU (EU-28) electricity (not energy) production was renewable and had doubled compared to 2005. So EU is on a fast trajectory towards renewable electricity consumption. A reasonable estimate may be that by 2030 40-50% of the electricity production in the EU is renewable.
This will of course mean that a similar proportion of the energy spent by electric cars is from renewable sources. Furthermore a large number of people die due to particle pollution from cars in Europe (we have a lot more
Re: The Left Wing (Score:2, Informative)
This is a plan from a centre-right government...
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Don't make fun of it. It may not be as nice as their border with Iceland, but they're improving it.
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What heavy metals are you referring to? The lead in your lead-acid battery, maybe?
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1) Look at high-adoption-rate countries, like Norway. Public parking becomes EV charging on the large scale. This is done via a combination of retrofits of existing parking, and requirements on all new parking construction.
2) Superchargers. Indeed, the newest variety of Supercharger is designed specifically for apartment dwellers; they're positioning them at popular shopping areas, so that your car can charge while you shop. The same thing can apply to CHAdeMO and CCS, but it requires longer (or more freque
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I'm confused. You don't have private parking and you don't use public parking. Where do you park your car, in the air?
Unless you have your groceries shipped to you, you at least have to do that. How often do you go to the grocery store and how long do you spend there?
Re:You'll have to tear out much of Europe's housin (Score:4, Interesting)
Private = Owned by private citizens
Public = Owned "the public" (city, federal government, etc)
It has nothing to do with how parking is arranged. Secondly, why would you assume that only on-street parking would get chargers but not parking garages? In Norway there are entire parking garages [youtube.com] dedicated specifically to EVs. And this is just the start - while now 1/3rd of all new vehicle sales in Norway are EVs, due to the lag, they're still only a relatively small fraction of total vehicles on the road. The higher the penetration = the more EV parking. And they're not just slow charging garages - countries starting to move into fast charging garages [electrek.co] as well.
That didn't answer the question. 1) What is your total average time, in minutes (not just "few") between when you park, and when you get back to your car; and 2) How often do you go to the store?
(not that I actually believe that you only spend "a few minutes" on a grocery store trip and that covers all your groceries)
It takes no more parking spaces. It takes the conversion of parking spaces. It means that parking spaces have plugs, nothing else.
At high penetrations, this change is inherently incentivized for the exact same reason that having parking at all is inherently incentivized.
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Actually, I'm in Iceland, but not like it matters. And no, "public" does not in any way, shape, or form mean "not a parking garage". The word "public" has a very specific meaning. [dictionary.com] Just like the word private [dictionary.com] does. They're antonyms.
Yes [evse.com.au] you [pinimg.com] most [akamaihd.net] certainly [wp.com] can. [novacharge.net] It's actually easier to install charging stations in grass than concrete. You run a trenching tool down the grass, lay down conduit, fill in the trench, and install the posts. And hey, if you don'
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How could I run an electric car? It would be simply impossible. The only options would be:
Ah yes, clearly there are only two options. They couldn't implement PRT, you couldn't use an automated taxi...
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So, your answer is that I have 2 alternatives... neither of which actually exist.
Many things will soon exist which do not exist now. This change won't be implemented overnight, either, so there's time to implement something different. Instead of crying about how a change which may not actually even come is going to ruin your life tomorrow, why not do something about promoting positive change today so that it can happen later?
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Towing trailers absolutely can be done (see Model X or any of the electric freight trucks available today), and just like with gasoline or diesel vehicles, trailers reduce your range. So they simply require larger batteries and/or faster charging. EVs have more than enough power to tow trailers; if there's one thing they're not short on, it's torque.
If you want to see someone tow a heavy boat up a mountain, for example, here you go [youtube.com] :) Here's one towing a caravan [youtube.com]. Model X is expensive, but Tesla's next ve