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Japan Transportation

Japan Moves To Ease Aging Drivers Out of Their Cars (nytimes.com) 135

As Japan's population ages, so do its drivers. Japan has the oldest population in the world, with nearly 28 percent of its residents above 65 years old. One in seven people are over 75. In the United States, by comparison, that figure is closer to one in 16. From a report: According to data compiled by Japan's national police agency, drivers between 16 and 24 are more likely to cause traffic accidents than any other age group. But last year, drivers over 75 caused twice as many fatal accidents per 100,000 drivers as those under that age. Among drivers over 80 years old, the rate was three times as high as for drivers under that age. The news media regularly features grisly reports of deaths caused by older drivers, some of whom are later discovered to have Alzheimer's disease.

Since 2009, all drivers 75 and older must submit to a test of their cognitive functioning when they renew their licenses [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled], typically once every three years. Under a new traffic law that took effect in March 2017, those who score poorly are sent to a doctor for examination, and if they are found to have dementia, the police can revoke their licenses. More than 33,000 drivers who took the cognitive test last year showed what the police deemed to be signs of cognitive impairment and were ordered to see a doctor. The police revoked just over 1,350 licenses after doctors diagnosed dementia.

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Japan Moves To Ease Aging Drivers Out of Their Cars

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  • Japan Moves To Ease Aging Drivers Out of Their Cars

    They'll do it better than in Georgia [washingtonpost.com] ...

    • Where is the "Sad but true" mod? Underrated?

      Also, this bullshit happened down the street from my office. Asshole cops around here have nothing to do but issue minor traffic citations. Did you hear the officer who swore at the old lady resigned and in his resignation complained that he didn't think he'd receive a fair investigation? What a douche...

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday May 13, 2018 @07:28PM (#56605604)

    "But last year, drivers over 75 caused twice as many fatal accidents per 100,000 drivers as those under that age. Among drivers over 80 years old, the rate was three times as high as for drivers under that age."

    Yes, that does make some sense. But are we talking about 200000 drivers, 2000, or 2? And "twice as many" is how many, exactly? Also, what percentage of people in that age bracket still drive?

    Telling us the rate "per 100000 drivers" without context doesn't actually explain how large or small the problem is. It just tells us that any particular older driver is more likely to cause a crash than any particular younger driver.

    • by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Sunday May 13, 2018 @07:48PM (#56605672)

      Did you not even read the summary? It gives you a lower bound.
      "More than 33,000 drivers who took the cognitive test last year"
      That means more than 33,000 drivers 75 years or older, because that's how many failed the screening test and were referred to a doctor.

      That's also only those who had to take the test, which is only required once every 3 years.

      From TFA:
      "An additional 460,000 older drivers showed slight impairment of their cognitive functions, based on their performance on the test, but were allowed to keep their licenses if they took a three-hour traffic safety course."

      That's half a million drivers who either failed or showed slight impairment in 1 year on a test only required every 3 years for >= 75 years old.

      That's 1.5 million dodgy or failed results. There must be many times that who passed the test, so we're not talking 200000 drivers, we're talking millions.
      i

    • The entire point of "per 100,000 drivers" is to normalize the data so you're not comparing the raw numbers but the rate of fatal accidents in each population....

  • Not just Japan (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Sunday May 13, 2018 @07:30PM (#56605610) Homepage

    Many US states have stepped up testing and medical requirements for people over 75.The older you get, the more frequently you must take a driving test.

    The Japanese have just put a more specific requirement on it.

    • Yes, here in Illinois at 75, you have to take a full driver's test (written, driving, and vision) test, and your license must be renewed every 2 years. At 89, it becomes every year.

      • We should adopt this nationwide. I mean, State-by-State, because, State's Rights!

      • Although in retrospect, it should be every year starting at 80. Make the first test every year free, so it isn't a financial burden for the elderly, they already have enough issues with the fucked social net previous generations foisted on us. Oh snap! They did it to themselves!

  • There is no where to park in Japan. So they are replacing drivers with robots so the cars can just keep driving around looking for a parking space.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Even in the smaller cities like Sapporo, public transit coverage does drop off some and cars go from being completely unnecessary to a nice-to-have. Then you get out into the rural areas, which is what this article is talking about. Some places will see a bus to the next town once an hour, or a train to the nearest major city 2-3 times a day. Out there, private transportation is just as important as it is in Omaha, Nebraska.

  • Unlike the US... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
    Unlike the US, most of Japan actually has a functional public transport system. Even absent self-driving cars, this is much less of a burden in Japan than it would be in the US.
    • Re:Unlike the US... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, 2018 @08:01PM (#56605716)

      While I do agree with you, the article specifically mentions people who live in rural parts of Japan, where there is no public transportation.

      • Re:Unlike the US... (Score:4, Informative)

        by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Sunday May 13, 2018 @09:46PM (#56606088)

        What makes it worse, as you go further out from the cities the percentage of elderly population gets higher too, with some towns over 50%.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          The obvious conclusion is that people in those areas are aging nearly twice as fast as people living in cities. Further, we can conclude that pollution actually extends lifespan.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      No, that's an overgeneralization. If you go far out enough in Japan, you will need a car to get around. In the US, there are plenty of cities with no or insufficient public transport.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    More than 33000 drivers were sent to be examined, but of those only "just over" 1350 were found to be sufficiently impaired to have their license revoked. That means that 96% of the time, the police are identifying the wrong people. It would be interesting to know the rate of false negatives: How many impaired drivers are not being flagged in encounters with the police?

    • It's a screening test, designed to be performed by people who are not doctors.
      It's supposed favour false positives and minimise false negatives. Failing the test simply means you need a proper test.

      Like the eye test machines some counties have. I fail them everytime, and every time I have to get a certificate from an optometrist that says I have good enough vision to drive without glasses.

      Also like the breath tests police conduct for driving under the influence, the machine you talk into while sitting in yo

  • Give them free mass transit

    • That'll work great in the rural towns where there is no public transport and the elderly population exceeds 50%

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • In my experience it's people who live close to the city who don't benefit from extending public transport who complain the most.

          The actual reason these rural communities have poor public transport is because of their low population density. No one is going to use a bus route that either a) doesn't stop anywhere near their house; or b) stops near everyone's house so takes them 2 hours to get to the shops.

          • No one is going to use a bus route that either a) doesn't stop anywhere near their house; or b) stops near everyone's house so takes them 2 hours to get to the shops.

            Some cities let people call for a pickup and then they send a van around to sweep up people by request. That way it only goes where it has to go. In Japan they can manage to sort their recycling so perhaps they are also responsible enough for that.

          • by Kjella ( 173770 )

            The actual reason these rural communities have poor public transport is because of their low population density. No one is going to use a bus route that either a) doesn't stop anywhere near their house; or b) stops near everyone's house so takes them 2 hours to get to the shops.

            Note that for a lot of elderly going to a public bus stop is already too high a burden, particularly if they need to carry something. Here around our cabin I notice they have like a bus/taxi hybrid, you pre-order and they take a round collecting people and then you get a few hours in the town center before they pick you up and do a similar drop-off round. I think that kind of door-to-door service works better for retirees than a scheduled route.

      • That'll work great in the rural towns where there is no public transport and the elderly population exceeds 50%

        Then they have a choice to either move or work to install alternatives to cars. Instead of paying for cars we could pool together to have a subsidized taxi service for cases like these. The assumption that we should indulge them in the unsafe operation of a motor vehicle because the current public transit options suck is idiotic.

        I don't understand this whining that we can't do anything that would change the status quo.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by 50000BTU_barbecue ( 588132 ) on Sunday May 13, 2018 @08:01PM (#56605720) Journal

    Absent safe and affordable self-driving cars that can handle senile users (rambling, contradictions, references to old landmarks, etc.), we have to find a way to transition old drivers in every country.

    My Dad was stubbornly holding on to driving despite failing vision and increased confusion, the police stopped him driving down the highway the wrong way. Nothing happened, but the next day, they suspended his license.

    There should be a better way than waiting for "driving in the wrong lane", for example.

    • This is so common, a similar thing happened with my Grandad (drove the wrong way round a roundabout!) People will do anything to avoid admitting they can't do something it must be very difficult to give up your independence. Perhaps the move toward autonomous vehicles will soften the blow as we'll all still be able to get around in old age
    • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Monday May 14, 2018 @07:07AM (#56607396)

      There should be a better way than waiting for "driving in the wrong lane", for example.

      There is but we're too much of a bunch of self indulgent asshats to do it. The answer is EVERYONE should have to retest routinely (say every 3-5 years) and the test should actually be challenging to pass in a sense similar to a pilot's license. (doens't have to be as hard as a pilots license but it should be a lot harder than it is and include cognitive function testing and a physical exam) Do something stupid like drive drunk and your license gets revoked on the first offense because you have clearly demonstrated you cannot handle the responsibility. If you are getting older and lose the ability to cognitively react fast enough and properly while driving, that should result in your license being suspended. I don't see why that should even be controversial. Simple fact is that you become dangerous when that happens. I expect/hope I live long enough it happens to me someday.

      Unfortunately we've designed far too much of our infrastructure around a presumed ability and "right" to drive a car so the other half of this is that we would have to actually invest in decent public transit for those who are unable to pass the test. I don't actually see this as a bad thing. A good public transit system is something worthwhile. If we need to have subsidized access to taxis (or Uber/Lyft) for those unable to drive themselves then let's do that or something similar. Probably some people to assist the elderly and disabled who need a little extra help getting around. Heaven forbid we actually act to help those who need a little extra assistance.

      • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        "The answer is EVERYONE should have to retest routinely (say every 3-5 years) and the test should actually be challenging to pass in a sense similar to a pilot's license. "

        Prove it. Testing every driver every 3-5 years would be enormously expensive and you can cite NO evidence that it would make a meaningful improvement in safety.

        "If you are getting older and lose the ability to cognitively react fast enough and properly while driving, that should result in your license being suspended. I don't see why tha

  • My Japense father in law had tunnel vision and still got his license renewed. And we literaly see Japanse elderly people have caused accidents every month. Usually they just hit a wall by putting the car mistakenly in reverse. The Japanese government should make it compulsory for elderly people to have car with driving assistance like anti-collision prevention. Those features are currently available for any small car at almost no extra charge.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    So they are rounding up the elderly and forcing them to do a battery of tests. The first test is apparently very easy to fail and has a HUGE false positive rate (96%).

    I get what they want to do here, but that's a bullshit way to do it. Imagine if 96% of people who took a breathalyser test had a "drunk" reading, but it turns out when they get to the station and do the real test they're more sober than Bill W?

    Improve the first test to get the false positive rate below at least 50%, preferably under 10%.

    • That's because the breathalyser doesn't measure the person's ability to drive. It measures their breath alcohol concentration.

      460,000 people passed the test, 33,000 failed. 1350 had their licenses suspended. That's about 32,000 false positives out of about 500,000 people. 6.5% false positive, well under your 10% benchmark.

  • There was a big scandal some time ago when a family did not register a death of the old man to continue collecting the pension checks. And some investigation found it was not all that isolated. So of the people who are still alive according to pension records, how many are really alive?
    • Yeah, I'm assuming the mummies are failing the driving tests when they go in, and nobody is noticing that they're mummies...

    • Well, if they're dead, they won't show up for the test, so at least they'll have their driving license revoke.

      • by ghoul ( 157158 )

        Hopefully no Smart Young Thing decides to crack down on pension abuse by using the DMV database and suddenly you have a situation where elderly who gave up their license stop receiving their pension cheques as someone decided they are dead as there is no record of them in DMV databases for the last 5 years. You might think this is ridiculous but given the stupid SQL statements I have seen to run reports this is not impossible.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      It's one of the rare occasions where the Japanese willfully break the law. It is considered morally OK because it balances out the useless land problem:
      1. Old rural person dies.
      2. Next of kin living in $BigCity inherits useless rural plot of land, and annoyingly, the tax burden on said land.
      3. No one wants to buy the useless plot of land, and there is no mechanism for abandoning the land. Until every last member of your family line dies, that land will have its taxes collected from whoever is still alive

      • You're saying I could move to Japan, buy land cheap and live in a nice rural area for next-to-nothing? I thought I was going to retire in Thailand but Japan might work too.

    • by Chrisq ( 894406 )

      There was a big scandal some time ago when a family did not register a death of the old man to continue collecting the pension checks.

      Well if they are not alive that's even more reason that they should not drive.

  • by gordguide ( 307383 ) on Monday May 14, 2018 @04:57AM (#56607134)

    I'm in Canada. Doctors are required by law to report any medical condition that may affect one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, and such a report triggers an immediate suspension of your driving license. (Driving while Suspended carries the same penalties as Impaired Driving).

    In my case, at age 57, due to a mix of medication my doctor prescribed me, I began experiencing dizzy spells. Combined with low blood pressure (which is actually good, as you age, but when I was a young adult I would get a dizzy spell for about 1~3 seconds if I stood up quickly from a seating position) I fell and hit my head while in the doctor's office, and he sent the report (and paid for a taxi home for me).

    Now my Driver's License is pretty much exactly like how all Pilot's Licenses work ... it's dependent on a medical. I take the medical every year (the licensing agency pays the fee to the doctor) and if I pass (I always do) then I can renew my Driver's for a year. This will never go away; I will be doing this for the rest of my life.

    Note that the medical also includes a vision test, which I also always pass (20:20 & 15:20), but should I fail then there would be a requirement to get another medical from an optometrist, and I know many drivers who cannot see as well as I can and don't wear corrective lenses. But they don't need a medical to drive.

    • I had a similar situation because I passed out and had a seizure. Eventually I got a doctor who got me the right diagnosis, I had blacked out from lack of oxygen (due to friend having fallen asleep on top of me) when I stood up quickly, then I hit my head on the floor and seized. Impact seizure, not a recurring or chronic problem so I became normal again. :-). My problem came because the ambulance got called and the paramedics reported it.

  • " those who score poorly are sent to a doctor for examination, and if they are found to have dementia, "

    If they have dementia, they will forget that appointment anyway.

  • In Japan. When?

    Given their love of robots, I'd say that this is a no-brainer.

  • Hey, I'm an aging driver. If any Japanese come over here to Minnesota to make me get out of my car, I shan't be pleased! That's my wife's job! :-)
    • We're all aging drivers. If a cute Japanese female comes to take me out of my car and helps me burn off energy so I can fall asleep, I would not be at all displeased.

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