Are Google's Cat-Loving Employees Killing Burrowing Owls? (seattletimes.com) 181
An anonymous reader writes: Google's employees started a group called GCat Rescue that traps feral cats and puts them up for adoption. (Though "less-friendly adult cats are neutered and released... The cats that are released are implanted with tracking chips, and an ear is notched so they can be identified.") A public records request discovered that city employees kept catching the Google-chipped cats in a nearby wildlife and recreation area that was home to the very last 50 burrowing owls in Silicon Valley — which California has officially designated a species of "special concern". Someone had apparently even installed a cat-feeding station next to a designated owl-nesting area.
The local Audubon Society has been asking Google to review their cat-feeding stations since 2012, but environmental groups told the Times Google was "consistenty unhelpful" on the cat issue. "They told us it was something their employees were doing and they couldn't interfere," said a board member with a group trying to protect the San Francisco Bay National Wildlife Refuge. "One of the cats was trapped, turned over to the Silicon Valley Animal Control Authority, released to Google, trapped again in the park and released again to Google," the Times reports, adding that "In August, it was found dead in the park."
"Like so many stories these days about Big Tech, this is a tale about how attempts to do good often produce unexpected consequences, and how even smart people (especially, perhaps, smart people) can be reluctant to rethink their convictions."
The Times reports that a "final victory is at hand" for the cats, since last year was the first time in 20 years that no owl fledglings were observed in the park -- though "as recently as 2011, there were 10." But the number of cat sightings was 318.
The local Audubon Society has been asking Google to review their cat-feeding stations since 2012, but environmental groups told the Times Google was "consistenty unhelpful" on the cat issue. "They told us it was something their employees were doing and they couldn't interfere," said a board member with a group trying to protect the San Francisco Bay National Wildlife Refuge. "One of the cats was trapped, turned over to the Silicon Valley Animal Control Authority, released to Google, trapped again in the park and released again to Google," the Times reports, adding that "In August, it was found dead in the park."
"Like so many stories these days about Big Tech, this is a tale about how attempts to do good often produce unexpected consequences, and how even smart people (especially, perhaps, smart people) can be reluctant to rethink their convictions."
The Times reports that a "final victory is at hand" for the cats, since last year was the first time in 20 years that no owl fledglings were observed in the park -- though "as recently as 2011, there were 10." But the number of cat sightings was 318.
Flamebait (Score:5, Funny)
It's probably all because of Hillary.
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Not only does it have cute little furry animals, it simultaneously calls Google employees geniuses and really dumb. It makes environmentalists mad, but also people who hate the environment (and kill cats).
Now we see the real power behind the Google Reich:
Does your cat look like Adolf Hitler? Do you wake up in a cold sweat every night wondering if he's going to up and invade Poland? Does he keep putting his right paw in the air while making a noise that sounds suspiciously like "Sieg Miaow"? If so, this is the website for you:
http://www.catsthatlooklikehit... [catsthatlo...hitler.com]
The sooner this thread gets Godwined, the better!
Re:Flamebait (Score:5, Informative)
Somebody is just looking for ways to complain about Google. I am no fan of their stances on privacy but this is a bit ridiculous. These people from Google are clearly *reducing* the number of cats running around outside and killing the owls, by neutering them and putting some of them in people's houses. The entire complaint seems to be that they aren't killing the cats they can't find homes for.
And one of the bits left out of the summary that does not agree with the summarizer's angle at all: "Environmental groups said Google was generally an excellent partner and had made aggressive efforts to support the burrowing owls"
Re:Flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
The question is where the feral cats are acquired and the where they're released. They can be reducing the overall number of feral cats while still irresponsibly increasing the concentration in "this nice park that's way better place to live than the street" which they happen to not realize or care is home to the protected owl species.
Employees drawing cats to owl habitat with feeders (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire complaint seems to be that they aren't killing the cats they can't find homes for.
I guess you missed the part about putting cat feeders in a refuge, in burrowing owl habitat, even near the burrowing owl feeders. That increases the danger to the owls by drawing cats to that area. If feeders are used they should be drawing cat away from burrowing owls, not towards them. When presented with the option of live prey or hard dry and crunchy pet food what do you think the feral cats released will go for?
Keep the cat feeders on campus, don't put them in a wildlife refuge.
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First, cats like all predators, get bored with dry food. Second, cats aren't like dogs; they won't chase a ball or shred a towel. The need to stick themselves (via fish-hook claws) to a much smaller animal and bite it to death, doesn't sublimate. Well-fed cats kill for the sport. Loved cats tend to stick to mice and rats. Abandoned and feral cats will kill whatever animal is closest. Once they've got that habit, they never lose it.
Re:Employees drawing cats to owl habitat with feed (Score:4, Interesting)
Cats can be taught. My cat is a hunter, but always brings me her catch for approval. So I started rewarding her if she brought a mice, rat or pigeon (pest species around here), and locking her in the bathroom for an hour if she killed anything else. She stopped catching the mudlarks and wrens and now they thrive around the yard and she just ignores them, while going full terminator on any pigeon or mouse that lucks out and enters the yard.
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These people from Google are clearly *reducing* the number of cats running around outside
Not if they're fucking feeding them.
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It's not really Google, it's a group of people at Google. And no, Google does not make an effort to only hire geniuses, but they probably do hire people who think they are geniuses.
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So, no they're not a protected species but they are part of the ecosystem. Also, I am a cat fan but I think we should try all alternatives before killing any living thing and think about the repercussions.
Not really, they are a non-native species introduced not an ecosystem. Where I live, about once a month we have signs "Lost Cat," a post about how someone's cat got snatched from the backyard at night, got attacked by a big dog or feral cat, or to please be careful driving because a cat got hit. Natural selection has taken care of the feral cat problem in our neighborhood. If you value your pet don't let it roam freely where it is exposed to dangers it may not even realize exist.
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Can't eat it, I'm vegan.
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OK,WE GET IT...YOU VAPE.
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I mean, really, you realize there would be a lot more owls if we had never set up there right? We should feel responsibility for weaker creatures, for most of them are our fault.
Which is why we should not take actions that allow non-native predators to devastate native species, which is what it appears the cats are doing to the owls.
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Well, yes, domestic cats and dogs are a non-native species, but on the flip side, the only reason those owls aren't getting eaten by coyotes and mountain lions is that humans chased them all away. So on the whole, they're probably not worse off (except in terms of finding grasslands to burrow in).
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Well, yes, domestic cats and dogs are a non-native species, but on the flip side, the only reason those owls aren't getting eaten by coyotes and mountain lions is that humans chased them all away. So on the whole, they're probably not worse off (except in terms of finding grasslands to burrow in).
Possibly, but I'm not sure about the coyotes. They adapt pretty well to humans and can coexist often without humans realizing they are there.
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Not really a natural part of the ecosystem, the vast majority of feral cats were once pets or kittens from pets. The reason the vole and rabbit population went up is because you don't have other predators in the area, like cayotes or snakes. Also, a sudden loss of a predator does cause a subsequent rise in prey, but that will usually work itself out over time.
Feral cats released encouraged to encroach on owls (Score:2)
From the above it sounds as if Google is rescuing cats that would otherwise have been put down by animal control. If they aren't trapping them themselves, it would result in a net *increase*.
The problem is not with the rescued cat, those that find a home. There are also non-rescued cats that are released to the wild. The danger to the burrowing owls is actually increased by the employees putting cat feeders in areas where they draw the feral unadoptable cats to the burrowing owls rather than drawing them away.
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Who cares? The cats were in the wild to begin with. If they did nothing, even in the best-case scenario, there would be more cats—maybe all not right there in the park, but there would be more cats, and the owls don't just live in that park, which means that on the whole, neuter-and-release does help the owl population.
Also, chances are good that they put the feeding station in that park because the cats were already attracted to the owls
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Who cares? The cats were in the wild to begin with. If they did nothing, ...
Doing nothing is preferable when your "something" makes things worse.
even in the best-case scenario, there would be more cats—maybe all not right there in the park, but there would be more cats, ...
The problem is more cats in the sanctuary. Release them on the google campus or somewhere *other* than the sanctuary.
Also, chances are good that they put the feeding station in that park because the cats were already attracted to the owls. So moving the feeding station won't reduce the nearby cat population; it will just reduce the number of cats caught.
The feeding stations increases the size of the cat population that the sanctuary can accommodate. Without the extra food in the sanctuary there may be fewer cats. Too much competition for limited food may cause some migration elsewhere, secondary food sources interfere with that pressure.
But even if I'm completely wrong, and they actually put the feeding station in the park in a deliberate attempt to kill as many owls as possible, ...
"Never attribute to malice that which
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I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they're doing. The cats keep coming back to the park anyway.
There are
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Well, if Hillary is behind that all, that would be hilarious.
Anyway, you seem to be a debutant, you forgot to end with "F1RST POST!"
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Anyway, you seem to be a debutant, you forgot to end with "F1RST POST!"
Yeah humor doesn't come naturally to me.
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No worries !!
You get older and everything around you will look more and more like a joke!
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Shoot...any PETA/warmist/SJW/snowflake/bleeding-heart that comes close. BOOM ! Issue(s) resolved.
No need to. Their heads are already exploding as they try to decide whether to support the cats or the owls.
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The first time your plot of land was settled it was pristine nature. Just because we collectively decide at one point in time to point to some plot of land and designate it a preserve doesn't mean we can't change our minds later ... and that's no more wrong than your home occupying part of nature.
Wolves are no longer native to my country, some people want them again to be ... but for the moment they are most definitely invasive, and oh my god do people whine if they are shot.
Real solution: Force field to save the owls (Score:2)
Guessing that you're replying to an AC. Can't see and don't care, but I'm sure you're wasting your time. If it smells like a troll and posts like a troll...
Now about actually solving the problem with a minimum of slaughter: Protect the relatively helpless owls by putting a force field around their nesting area. Actually an electronic fence of sorts.
As it applies to the cats, you give them a kind of shock collar that is powered by the electronic fence. As a collared cat intrudes into the fenced area, the pai
Traps, fines, abolish the stations (Score:5, Interesting)
I love cats. I have 3, Iâ(TM)ve paid thousands of dollars to keep them healthy and happy, I took time off to take one of my older cats to a veterinary oncologist when she had cancer. Iâ(TM)m 100% a cat person.
But I keep my cats inside my apartment. Theyâ(TM)re efficient murderers and itâ(TM)s wholly irresponsible to let your cats roam, both for their health and the health of the wildlife and environment.
The roaming cats should be trapped. If they belong to someone, huge punitive fines should be levied. The feeding stations should be removed. All the trapped cats should be spayed or neutered.
Why does nobody there seem to have any conscience or regard for the rest of the world?
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Which would make the cats even more dangerous to local wildlife. While cats do hunt when well-fed, they hunt even more when they need to hunt to eat.
Pretty sure even TFS mentioned that the cats were spayed or neutered.
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The feeding stations should be removed.
Which would make the cats even more dangerous to local wildlife. While cats do hunt when well-fed, they hunt even more when they need to hunt to eat.
I believe that there is an implicit "...from the designated owl-nesting area" attached to that "should be removed." bit.
Maybe a cat got it.
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***sighs*** yes, I assumed that. Stop feeding the cats, and they'll get hungry. Some will, no doubt, move on. Others will look at the owls and say "well, yesterday I had a good bit of kibble, but that's gone now. And you're about dinner-sized...."
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Stop feeding the cats, and they'll get hungry. Some will, no doubt, move on. Others will look at the owls and say "well, yesterday I had a good bit of kibble, but that's gone now. And you're about dinner-sized...."
Cats, especially ferals, will prefer live prey over kibble. Kibble is what cats eat when they can get nothing else, and that includes house cats.
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It's not that they'll move on, so much as that they will start congregating at the new feeding station.
Also, it's not that they are eating owls. They're eating baby owls.
Recently I watched a local cat climbing a tree and then sitting there for quite a while with sparrows literally teasing it perching mere centimeters out of its reach - resting on a twig which clearly can't support a cat's weight.
And they don't even have the talons or beaks of owls. They don't need it.
It's clear to them and to the cat that t
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Which would make the cats even more dangerous to local wildlife. While cats do hunt when well-fed, they hunt even more when they need to hunt to eat.
When presented with live prey and hard dry and crunchy pet food at a feeder the feral cats will prefer the live prey. Well fed housecats eating meaty canned food will kill birds and other prey instinctively on sight and opportunity, and then sometimes drag the carcases into the house to show you.
The larger point you are missing is the location of the feeders. If your logic were true they are drawing feral cats towards the burrowing owls, not away from them. The feeders need to move out of the owl habitat
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Owls are also efficient murderers. You should let your cats out and have them catch the killer owls.
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It's not a question which species is a more efficient killer but which one is more endangered.
So unless those "cats" are actually code for releasing tigers into parks...
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I love cats. [...] But I keep my cats inside my apartment. [...] Why does nobody there seem to have any conscience or regard for the rest of the world?
You have enslaved a cat. It wants to roam the world, and you are keeping it trapped in an unnatural environment for your amusement. And you claim you love cats? Maybe you should get a pet rat, they like living in your house anyway.
Re: Traps, fines, abolish the stations (Score:1)
Our cats (7 of them) don't want to roam the world. They are happy to live in the house and find the outside frightening. There is a reason they are sometimes called 'housecats.'
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Really? They don't want to roam the world? Leave your door open for a few hours and see what happens.
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But I keep my cats inside my apartment. Theyâ(TM)re efficient murderers and itâ(TM)s wholly irresponsible to let your cats roam
Proper house cats don't tend to roam far, don't tend to climb to the tops of trees and as such don't tend to do much killing in the residential neighbourhoods. I would wager our cat made a kill maybe once every 6 months, and it was usually mice though on one occasion she did destroy a bird in the neighbours yard. Quite tame compared to her murderous owner (me) who called the council for a mouse inspection and then proceeded to commit genocide on the population that was eating its way through shed walls in t
Re: Traps, fines, abolish the stations (Score:2)
Feral cats CAN be human-socialized, but it takes YEARS & lots of effort. One of my cats was born feral & rescued by me from my office parking lot along with her kittens. I got them all spayed/neutered & adopted out the kittens, but she was too feral, so I decided to keep her as an "outside cat" (coaxing her inside into a large condo cage every night with food, letting her out in the morning... the cage was necessary because she fought with my other cat). The hardest 6 months of my life came when
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Indeed. Like I said, puts people off owning animals. Most people aren't in it for the challenge.
I had a feral cat too growing up (mum decided to feed it, thought it belonged to someone else), well it had babies. That first generation of cat was our house cat. Absolute bitch of a cat. Nice enough but just a plain grumpy cat. After 14 years the old senile thing thought it knew better than my mother who moved it from under the shade of her car, and climbed back under the car to its own demise (not a horrible d
Re: Traps, fines, abolish the stations (Score:2)
Proper house cats don't tend to roam far, don't tend to climb to the tops of trees
jumping jesus in a pogo stick! everybody knows that a burrow owl lives in a hole! in the ground! why the hell do you think they call it a âoeburrow owlâ anyway?!
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Proper house cats don't tend to roam far, don't tend to climb to the tops of trees
jumping jesus in a pogo stick! everybody knows that a burrow owl lives in a hole! in the ground! why the hell do you think they call it a âoeburrow owlâ anyway?!
Indeed they do. They also rarely do so in residential properties. Maybe you should read the first part of the sentence you quoted and think about it in the context of a 750 acre wildlife park while you're jumping for Jesus with in a pogo stick. ... whatever that means.
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I have three cats, all of them were feral. It's true one was only about two months old when I got her, so she doesn't really count, but the other two were adults (one was about two years old, the other probably about five years old). Because of my experience, I can safely say you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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I agree.
And then do the cats.
Point the finger correctly (Score:5, Informative)
People blaming Google in this case are just plain stupid. The finger should be pointed at all the horrible pet owners that don't neuter their pets and then allow those un-neutered pets to escape to the "wild". It also looks like this is a group of Google's employees, which doesn't mean "Google". Finally, these volunteers are doing exactly the best possible thing- capturing and neutering them all and trying to home those cats they can. The problems will quickly diminish over just one generation.
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"Finally, these volunteers are doing exactly the best possible thing"
No, the best possible thing would be to have the cats that can't be given homes euthanized.
There is an excess of feral cats in the US, and even domesticated cats SIMPLY ENJOY KILLING THINGS. They're *cats*. That's what they do. And burrowing owls are an easy, very easy, prey.
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>"No, the best possible thing would be to have the cats that can't be given homes euthanized."
To many people, me included, killing the cats is not the best thing at all. The best possible thing would be to ALSO protect the owls, by taking steps to protect them- like moving the feeding stations away from nesting sites, putting up deterrents, etc.
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"There is an excess of feral cats in the US, and even domesticated cats SIMPLY ENJOY KILLING THINGS. They're *cats*. That's what they do.
As a cat owner for many years I emphasize the accuracy of this remark. The Felidae are the most successful predator family on Earth, they are the top predators on every continent on which they are found (and haven't been hunted to extinction as the American Lion was). Those adorable behaviors of house cats are adaptations to hunting - "playing" with small things, their ability to site motionless but alert for hours, pouncing etc.
We had rodent invasion problems constantly in our present house until we got th
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even domesticated cats SIMPLY ENJOY KILLING THINGS
I disagree strongly with that.
Domesticated cats like eating things, and sometimes want to eat live prey they've caught.
What they really like is playing with things. My cats get distraught when they kill a mouse, because it means it'll no longer play with them.
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Can we also spay and neuter the googlers?
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Finally, these volunteers are doing exactly the best possible thing- capturing and neutering them all and trying to home those cats they can.
Second best. Capturing and shooting them would be the best. Rehoming feral cats is a great way of turning people off cats in general.
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That's not true. The un-fixed cats will continue to breed. The correct thing to do is to trap, spay/neuter, and release. Cats are territorial, and if there are fixed cats in a particular territory, the un-fixed cats won't live and breed there. People who specialize in fighting pet overpopulation have b
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>"That's not true"..."The correct thing to do is to trap, spay/neuter, and release."
??? That is exactly what they are doing (by the way it is "castrate/spay", "neutering" is not sex specific, it is the removal of either male or female sex organs). They are trapping and neutering and trying to re-home them and marking and releasing those that can't be re-homed. And that will, indeed, help to end the problem because neutered cats cannot breed.
So what exactly is "untrue" that you are siting? It sounds
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>"Removing them from the environment doesn't help. They need to be trapped, fixed, and re-released."
That is what they are doing. That is what I said.
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>"Removing them from the environment doesn't help. They need to be trapped, fixed, and re-released."
Ah, now I see the disconnect. I misread the summary- they rehome kittens and friendly adults and only neuter the unadoptable one that they release.
It would be better if they did what I thought they were doing- neutering them all; both the ones adopted out and the ones released.
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Sorry, but
1) It is not up to an employer to control their employee's extra-work life. THAT is evil.
2) Discriminating against employees or potential employees for performing such volunteer is insane. THAT is also evil.
3) Gun arguments have nothing to do with this thread. If you wanted to go down such a crazy path, an equivalent would be Google holding back services to CUSTOMERS for something they don't "like".
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>"Did you even RTFA? The GCat group is catching felines on the Googleplex campus."
Sorry, I missed that. In true Slashdot fashion, I only read the summary. Funny how the summary neglected to mention that one every important little piece of information- it would have added only three words. Yeesh.
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>"Cats can send for themselves. Putting out food will only lead to more cats, not fewer. It's just plain misguided and harmful."
Putting out food does not lead to more cats. Feeding FERTILE cats leads to more cats. Neutered cats cannot reproduce. Yes, neutered feral cats can and will still kill wildlife, but only for their short (due to being outdoors) lifespan. And although they will still instinctively kill prey even when artificially fed, they do so at a much, much lower rate.
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Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! (Score:1)
"You know what, Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people, here, in the trailer park."
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Just in line with their new moto "be evil" (Score:2, Interesting)
Now Google has the extermination of a species in on its belt. Lets see what the upgrade to next in the physical space.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Google hasn't exterminated the species. The major reason for the decline is humans bulldozing their habitats to built shit, not cats.
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Hush little baby, don't say a word,
We'll stay in this burrow with a bird.
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Well, except for the detail that the burrowing owl is "a species of special concern".
Which, for those who are unaware, means that the species is NOT Threatened, nor is it Endangered. What it means is that someone in CA's government has decided that the animal in question MIGHT, MAYBE, SOMEDAY become Endangered.
IOW, when the Burrowing Owl becomes Endangered, we can apply the usual rules for such, and until then, the birds can be treated like any
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So, no protection at all should be applied until a species becomes actually endangered? We should watch the range and number of wild species collapse until its survival is actually endangered before doing something about it?
Hmm, seems like it would make much more sense to observe species moving in the direction of becoming endangered, and take modest measures to prevent that from happening in the first place. Waiting for a crisis before taking any action is stupid.
The fact is the burrowing owl is disappeari [ucdavis.edu]
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It is actually in the interest to owners of private property to prevent the species from becoming endangered, because if that happens legal restrictions go into effect on what they can do with land with endangered populations on it. But if steps are taken to prevent this from happening, those legal restrictions do not ever go into effect.
It's definitely more in the interest of the owls. If even a hint of those legal restrictions comes to bear, those owls will be dead / nests destroyed before the ink is dry. Nope, no endangered species here!
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Now Google has the extermination of a species in on its belt. Lets see what the upgrade to next in the physical space.
My guess is that in the case of the Google and cats story, after those owls are exterminated, the land will no longer contain a protected species and can be turned into a Google office tower or a space for bicycle racks.
It's about 100 cats (Score:5, Informative)
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100 poor families now have to put up with a godless feral cat. 100 families won't ever get another cat after that bad experience.
It all comes from the top (Score:2)
Google's corporate 767 also is based at local Moffett Field. Moffett Field is home to many burrowing owls.
The question is exactly how many burrowing owls have personally been killed by Eric Schmidt? When he could drive the extra 6 miles to San Jose International and fly out of that airport.
Google is an evil company, no doubt!
Humans at it again (Score:2)
Sure, blame the cats. Don't blame the people who don't have their cats spayed or neutered, who let their unfixed cats roam during the day and night rather than be kept inside, who think nothing of tossing cats and kittens outside to fend for themselves.
It's as if the cats are doing what comes naturally, but the supposed smartest animal on the planet has played no role in this situation.
Long running feud (Score:2)
1) Both the cat and the bird people are entirely unwilling to listen to each other. They are emotionally invested in their cause and the other side is pure evil.
2) Feral cats do undoubtedly hurt bird populations, inc
"Our employees are doing this, we can't interfere" (Score:2)
Wait till one of them points out the superiority of white males on some forum, in his spare time.
It's Like Paul Allen's Yacht (Score:1)
Catch and cash (Score:2)
Scalp 'em.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rur... [abc.net.au]
https://www.theguardian.com/au... [theguardian.com]
"The cats that are released are implanted with tr (Score:1)
4th encounter (Score:1)
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There's a joke in here (Score:2)
About Google seemingly doing the "nice, warm, huggy feeling" thing, and ultimately causing bigger problems in the longer term.
politics (Score:2)
This is a metaphor for the endless war between progressives and conservatives. Progressives think they know better and want to "do good" and change the world. Conservatives think that systems are complex and your efforts to mess with them will have unintended consequences.
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Since conservatives are astounding polluters, I can already say that your metaphor makes very little sense.
Clash of the titan SJWs! (Score:2)
Great Horned Owls (Score:1)
Cats are an invasive species (Score:1)
And as a result they should be destroyed if not adoptable, not released back into the wild where they can kill native species
The huffington post had a really good article "Cats as Invasive Species? The Less-Known Facts About Their Wildlife Impact" that describes this and the research behind it
Bland (Score:1)
Bay Area tech employees won't be happy until the rest of the world is as sterile as they are.
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Anyone willing to work at Google is either evil or incredibly dumb.
It could just be the toxoplasmosis.
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