Number of Electric Vehicles on Roads Reaches Three Million: IEA (reuters.com) 228
The number of electric vehicles on roads worldwide rose to a record high of 3.1 million in 2017, but more research, policies and incentives are needed to drive further uptake, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said. From a report: The number of electric cars, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid electric and fuel cell electric passenger light-duty vehicles, increased by 57 percent compared with 2016, the IEA said in a report. China accounted for 40 percent of the global total last year. Research and development, policy support, charging infrastructure investment and production improvements are resulting in lower battery costs and higher electric vehicle (EV) uptake.
Did you know that 90% of all EVs... (Score:4, Funny)
...sold are still on the road? The other 10% made it home.
Who would have thought (Score:3, Insightful)
A vehicle where the fuel is nearly free, goes the same distance, and has 5x the horsepower along with a nearly immortal lifetime due to nearly no moving parts.
What boggles my mind is that this is only happening because of elon musk, they spent decades and millions of dollars holding back electric vehicles for stupid reasons. This revolution should have happened a long time ago.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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EV Batteries cost just around $200/kWh right now, so a 30kWh pack costs about $6000. $6000 will buy you approximately 2000 gallons of gasoline (local fuel prices are just a hair under $3/gal right now, plus it makes the math easier). The average fuel economy for vehicles in the US is about 25 mpg. That works out to 50,000 miles of driving.
Meanwhile the same 50,000 miles of driving, at an average of 3.5 mi/kWh and $0.18 per kWh (again, local costs) works out to about $2,650.
So, with no other considerations a
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I never said anything about a break-even point, just that you're pending about $3,350 less per 50K miles driven.
=Smidge=
Re:Who would have thought (Score:4, Informative)
To be fair Nissan was pushing affordable EVs 8 years ago, and Tesla still hasn't got theirs out. And the Chinese are pushing it really hard too, with 90% of new busses already being EVs with batteries several times the size of the biggest ones that Tesla sells.
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A vehicle where the fuel is nearly free, goes the same distance, and has 5x the horsepower along with a nearly immortal lifetime due to nearly no moving parts.
What boggles my mind is that this is only happening because of elon musk, they spent decades and millions of dollars holding back electric vehicles for stupid reasons. This revolution should have happened a long time ago.
To be fair, batteries have improved tremendously over the last few decades partly fueled by needs from other industries. 20 years ago the battery technology wasn't anywhere near enough to have an EV revolution. Some people tried, like Sinclair, but the EVs weren't for the most part proper car equivalents because they were too heavy.
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Huh? Electriv vehicles were around over 100 years ago. In fact, they were the preferred source of powering a vehicle back then - gas
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What boggles my mind is that this is only happening because of elon musk
No, it's only happening in the USA because of Elon Musk. EVs in Europe have been quite popular and Tesla is a small player there. EVs in China dwarf the pittance that the USA is putting out, and one of it's biggest companies BYD actually bought a vehicle platform a year before Tesla was founded.
I'm happy that Elon gave American car manufacturers a kick in the balls. He has done some amazing work for the world, but please don't pretend that this wouldn't have happened without him.
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Still a very small segment (Score:4, Informative)
Interesting article here with USA vehicle statistics: https://www.nanalyze.com/2017/... [nanalyze.com]
Right now EV's are 0.22% of all cars on the road in the US. I couldn't find a chart that included hybrids.
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Re: Still a very small segment (Score:2)
They are going to take off soon (Score:3)
It seems like in the next 2-5 years many major manufacturers are going to be launching fairly reasonably price EVs with decent range. The fast charging networks are expanding right now. As long as the battery prices continue to decline as they have been, I can't see that it would make sense for anyone with access to overnight charging to buy an ICE vehicle after the early 2020s. I hope Ford is using their SUV profits to do the R & D for a competitive EV over the next few years.
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Even then, there should be a lot more PHEVs coming out too; most short trips could be all-electric, fall back on the gas for longer trips. Personally, I think a 300 mile range EV would do everything I need, but I know that might not be enough for everyone. Having driven a Leaf for a while now, I hope I can avoid ever having to go that route; when my current ICE dies I would like a longer range EV so I never have to deal with an ICE again except on a motorcycle.
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As a weekend warrior who ventures into the backcountry regularly, I am waiting for a EV with 500 miles range, in Canadian winter conditions. Until then, I will be sticking with ICE.
As well you should. Still, I fail to see how your use case is anything more than tangentially related to the discussion. Clearly, EVs are not suitable for you. But you're also clearly an outlier.
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To be fair, most vehicles can't handle 2 feet of unplowed snow. EVs actually have very responsive traction control, so overall they should be better in snow and slippery conditions. The loss of range in low temperatures is real, but the fact that so many drivers in Norway are using them means that it's a pretty well understood situation. The problem really comes back to the cost of batteries to give you a good amount of range even in the cold, how far you regularly travel, and the availability of charging o
Thoughts? (Score:2, Insightful)
So I don't really know if there is any science on this. If you have some more knowledge please correct me.
The way I see it, we have a pretty serious energy density problem with our current battery tech. (L-Ion tech was invented in the 70's)
The current EV sales climate seems to be focused on changing driver/consumer behavior, and adapting infrastructure around current battery technology.
My proposition is this.
I think we jumped the gun on EVs. I don't think we have the service life, or energy density we need
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It is unlikely that there will be a jump in battery storage density in the near future. What we hope to see is a continued reduction in cost.
How much battery do you really need? Is 200 miles per charge not enough? You can charge at home, daily. This would meet well over 90% of my driving needs.
Long trips are going to be an issue. Even charging rates of 200 miles per hour are going to add significant time to a long trips (1 hour of charging per 3 hours of driving). It is unlikely these rates will improve muc
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I'm not sure what metric of sustainability EVs don't compete on currently but realize that coal fired power generation is on the way out and it has been for awhile. Even non-renewable sources like natural gas are mu
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There is new battery tech being developed, mostly in response to the demand and adoption of EVs that wouldn't happen if we didn't have them. Wit
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Yep I got thoughts:
L-Ion tech was invented in the 70's
The 70s era tech has nothing in common with the current Lithium Ion batteries, arguably not even the name if you actually call them by their correct chemistry, and sure as hell not the energy density. So that part of your post is completely irrelevant. Heck Tesla is a manufacturer of several different Lithium Ion chemistries for different purposes.
I'm just a little worried about all of the infrastructure decisions being made
Like what infrastructure decisions? I can see precisely zero infrastructure based decisions to date that have any impact on the choice of batte
I want my Ford Nucelon (Score:2)
I'm still waiting. (Score:2, Troll)
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half of norwegian cars... (Score:2)
50% of new cars in Norway are plug-in hybrids or EV
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/04/50-new-car-registrations-norway-2017-plug-vehicles-hybrids/
Chevy Volt (Score:2)
I technically have a plug-in hybrid which behaves like a EV in the summertime. When it runs out of battery power, it switches seamlessly over to gas. It's a little small on the interior but let's you enjoy having an EV without and of the range limitations. It's a bit less efficient than a pure EV and the gas engine takes a little care but it's more than a reasonable trade-off. No regrets here despite it being 2x the cost of my first car which was a 05 Corolla.
Gas Policies and incentives (Score:5, Informative)
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Any publication that doesn't allow comments these days is one that doesn't want to be challenged when it publishes complete and utter BULLSHIT like the article you linked to.
Any publication that doesn't allow comments these days has probably reached the conclusion that the trolls just aren't worth the page views. I disagree that availability of comments correlates in any way to the quality or veracity of the articles presented.
Want proof? Look no further than Slashdot.
Re:Policies and incentives (Score:4, Interesting)
It depends of your need. In Québec for instance, electricity is very cheap, having a car that do ~50 miles and you can easily commute with it everyday and do all your standard groceries/shopping the week-end. All this with 0 gasoline (gas price is $4.50/gallon here).
A lot of people have a second car with an ICE, like a Grand Caravan or whatever to haul the kids.
EV cars are an efficient means of transportation
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Re:Policies and incentives (Score:4, Insightful)
It makes tons of sense if you have a place to charge your car at home. Many do not, causing EVs to be more inconvenience than their benefits are worth.
Electric vehicles won't work for everybody (yet); but they would work for most people. The choice for society at this moment in time isn't everyone has to have ICE or everyone has to have EV. There is room for both on the road.
Eventually, especially as technology improves for things like batteries, it would be nice if all vehicles were EV... and with that change charging becomes easier- but for now it's ok that some people who can't get by with today's EVs don't have them. They aren't appropriate for everyone yet.
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Ironically, however, they don't work for most people who live in high-density population neighborhoods, especially areas of a city which are predominantly older development apartment buildings that may not have plugs available for cars in their parking lot or common parking garage.
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This is an issue with my condo. I'd have to get the board's permission to wire up a drop in my parking spot and hire an electrician to branch it off from the meter. Which probably would require a breaker box, because the meter is connected to the one in my unit 2 stories up. Or I'd have to run a line back from it to the basement.
That said, I'm still considering it, because my wife can charge at work, and a bunch of the places we go have free electricity.
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Yeah, I hear ya.... and that's not even considering the logistics of stopping other people in the building from tampering with your electrical outlet and stealing your electricity for their own use when you are not home, or other similar acts of mischief.
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Many do not, causing EVs to be more inconvenience than their benefits are worth.
Inconvenience being subjective, you don't actually get to decide whether the inconveniences outweigh the benefits.
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I'd be honestly surprised it there's even one among them.
This is not because a small number of people live in apartments without any ability to charge an electric car at home, but because the people who don't have the ability to charge at home are unlikely to purchase an electr
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I'd be honestly surprised it there's even one among them.
You'd be dead wrong. It's actually the subject of heated debate on the internal mailing lists where I work. Oddly enough, some of the worst entitlement comes from the people who DO have the ability to charge at home, and view the people who don't with disdain. I think it's opposite, but there is a very real contingent of people who are driving electric vehicles who absolutely cannot charge at home.
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I would defy you or anyone else to find any electric vehicle owner that has no ability to charge at home who might assert otherwise.
Challenge accepted.
I know several people personally who drive EVs and don't have any ability to charge at home. At my place of work, I know of many tens (maybe even 100) more who only charge at work.
Any other questions?
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It depends of your need. In Québec for instance, electricity is very cheap, having a car that do ~50 miles and you can easily commute with it everyday and do all your standard groceries/shopping the week-end. All this with 0 gasoline (gas price is $4.50/gallon here).
A lot of people have a second car with an ICE, like a Grand Caravan or whatever to haul the kids.
EV cars are an efficient means of transportation
I'm 20 miles from work. I could do a 50 mile car but practically I'd want more like a 100 mile car. I'm also a little leery of having a low mileage car as backup if the primary breaks down... of course in the almost 10 years I've had my current primary car, it has broken down exactly 0 times so that is probably paranoia.
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My Leaf is a just-over-100-miles car, and it gets me everywhere I regularly go pretty easily. There are a pretty good number of quick chargers around me (especially at the ~75 mile radius where they're most useful) which makes it fairly practical for slightly longer trips. In terms of reliability, EVs should be better since there are generally fewer parts; the Leaf at least is supposed to be quite solid with very little maintenance needed. For what's essentially an econobox it's pretty enjoyable to drive to
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Yes, but why do they make the Leaf look like ass? How about a nice design?
The 2018 is much more normal looking and has a 240 km (150 miles for you cretins) range. But yeah, up until this point they looked like weird boots...
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Well, I know a lot of people don't like the way it looks and the newer ones are more normal looking. Personally, I don't mind it, and it's a practical shape which is surprisingly roomy inside so I don't really care. There are a lot of new EVs in the pipeline, so there should be quite a lot of choice within 5 years or so.
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In the rare case of a break-down, you can always get a rental or loaner if you just happen to need long range. But the odds of needing long range just as your ICE breaks down seems pretty low, if you don't need it often.
My family lives in a town 60 miles away, so for me, I need a 150 mile car at minimum. But I almost never travel further than that. My next car will certainly be EV, but I'm not going to buy a new car until my ICE doesn't run well anymore. It's long since paid for, and I don't have extra
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Re:Policies and incentives (Score:4, Insightful)
The answer for a family is probably to have two different types of vehicles, each well suited for certain types of trips while being less suited for others. One vehicle could be a small EV and the other a more traditional gas powered vehicle. Maybe a minivan or SUV. And maybe for certain kinds of things (12 foot sheets of drywall), they'll just rent or pay to have the stuff delivered.
That's what we do. For years we've had a small economy car for the bulk of the trips and a larger vehicle to be used when you need a bigger vehicle.
In your example, most families probably aren't going to "suddenly" go camping in a remote area without electricity anyway. That takes a little bit of planning and if they've got time to plan and are an all EV family, they probably have some disposable income and can find a cheap rental car or borrow one from a friend.
Re: Policies and incentives (Score:2)
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An electric vehicle is no exception. You might choose a plug-in electric hybrid (also has a gas engine) if range is really an issue. But I think at least for early adopters like myself, driving an EV involves changing some of your driving habits. I have a PHEV (plug in electric hybrid) so I don't worry
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How do you plan to heat your EV during Quebec's 9 months of Winter? Wood stove?
" From Dec. 27[2017] to Jan. 1[2018], the maximum temperature in Montreal did not rise above –17 C. This six-day stretch is the longest such cold streak on record, based ondata going back 146 years" http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/... [www.cbc.ca]
(For Americans and those in the Bahamas and Belize -17C=1.4F)
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It is plugged in, the morning when it's -17C, you enter in a warm car with 100% battery, and the ice and snow on the windshield and glasses is already fully melted, no need to scrap it!
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A nice feature is that you can have the car "pre conditioned" before climbing inside and while it's still plugged in. So you get in a warm car and the car still has it's full range (though cold weather s
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The cold weather reduces the range and one option you definitely want is heated seats. It's much more efficient to heat the seats than it is the whole cabin, - which the car can do of course, at the expense of range.
When EV owners say stuff like this it concerns me, because I like to warm the cabin and have heated seats. Where I live it is colder as well.
Re:Policies and incentives (Score:4, Informative)
I have a 2012 Chevy Volt and it's electric range is between 25 and 45 miles depending on a number of factors including weather, driving style, etc. After that the gas engine ("range extender") kicks in. Since and I and most Volt drivers have a strong preference for limiting the amount of time the range extender runs, it becomes kind of a game to see how far we can go on electric only.
What my son and a lot of people will do in hot weather is turn the A/C to max, - he'll set it to 60 or whatever. It drives me nuts because it shortens the range and is totally unnecessary. The climate system does a pretty good job of managing the temp in the cabin if you set it at 72 or 75. And it will be far easier on the range. But for some reason, people like their cars to feel like inside of a refrigerator when it's hot outside.
Same with the heat. There's no reason to set the temp at 85 in the cabin when you're already wearing a winter coat. I dress for being outside and don't need or want it to be 80 inside the car. But like I said before, the Volt will comply and even has the bonus of remote start from the key fob or phone app that will warm the car up before you drive while it's still plugged in.
Cars like the Volt are nice because even if the electric range is shortened below the point where you get all the places you need to be, it has a gas engine to charge the battery and the mileage is still much better than most gas engine cars would get. And I think new EVs (all electric) like the Bolt and newer Teslas have enough range that even if it's shortened in cold weather, it's still adequate.
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The previous owner of our Volt ended up moving into an apartment where they couldn't charge the car very frequently but would sometimes do it at work. Most of the miles they
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Trouble is, in a really cold climate, you need to heat not only the seats but also the windshield. Otherwise your breath will condense on the inside of the windshield (unless you drive with the window open which tends to be unpleasant if the outside temp is much below rreezing.). BTW, has anyone tried heating just the seats? I can conceive that it might work OK if you don't mind driving with gloves on, but I can also imagine unexpected side effects like wildlife colonizing the seats in Winter.
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It depends of your need. In Québec for instance, electricity is very cheap, having a car that do ~50 miles and you can easily commute with it everyday and do all your standard groceries/shopping the week-end. All this with 0 gasoline (gas price is $4.50/gallon here).
A lot of people have a second car with an ICE, like a Grand Caravan or whatever to haul the kids.
EV cars are an efficient means of transportation
Exactly,
Let's take my case for example.
I live in Quebec and I've calculated that I travel around 2500-3000 km per month (I live at 52 km from work, so 2 time that for 21.75 work day per month in average + some commune and visiting friends). Right now I have an used car with a ~7.5L/100km efficiency (probably worst than that). So, with the gas around 1.4$/L right now, it mean a total of around 250-300$ per month only for the gas right now. Or course, let's not forget that the gas price will increase in the f
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Most of the Chinese EVs have massive batteries.
The government aims for all busses to be EVs within a few years, and in some places they already are. Battery sizes vary but the largest I've seen is 450kWh.
There are a lot of electric taxis too. Not sure what size battery exactly, but the BYD ones I've used must have been at least 70kWh, probably more based on the rate that the charge percentage went down. Most had 100,000km or more on them too.
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Interesting. I didn't see a single one as far as I recall, but they do seem to be selling well. Maybe just not in the areas where I've been.
I can see why the government subsidises it. There are a lot of old, dirty ICE vehicles that are even slower, not very safe and probably can't reliably do 60km on a regular basis. At 58k RMB this is a nice, affordable replacement.
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And 99% of those Chinese EVs have a range less than 50 km.
It's fair criticism, but it ignores one fact: EV manufacturers can simply buy someone else's battery to resolve that problem. Making the battery pack is hard, but they don't have to do it. Musk is better at building batteries than cars — per Munro & Associates, the battery is arguably (provably?) the most advanced in the EV industry, both in composition and in manufacturing techniques. If the Chinese figure out how to design and sell the rest of the car, they can simply buy the pack, and maybe eve
Re:Yep, dominated by China (Score:5, Informative)
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It looks like that number is the average range of EVs sold in Q3 2017, not the fleet overall. It would make sense that the fleet numbers would be well below that.
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So the most popular, in the worst conditions is still better than you 'claimed' earlier...
Why should we believe you now?
How fast are you expecting to drive in Chinese traffic? You'd probably be dead in less than 10 months, trying to drive a little electric car at 100kph in any of those cities traffic. Speed llimits are in the 100-120 range anyway so it's not much of a problem. If you're going to another city just take a train.
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My Leaf in winter (say -5c) loses about 15% range due to running the heat. I find it hard to believe that a Tesla is worse. It can sit for quite a long time running the heat without a big impact on the range - in fact this past winter it was my preferred car to run the kids to the bus stop when it got really cold. No hard starting, and because the heat is all electric it gets warm much fast than an ICE. I would sit for up to 30 minutes sometimes if the bus was late, not anything like driving for 30 minutes
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To have an EV with so low range, the manufacturer would need to deliberately cripple it.
Why would he do that?
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Scientist or troll? (Score:2)
For all the people who wail and gnash their teeth about climate change, somehow they never want to get behind Tesla and see it succeed.
Bull-fucking-shit.
See, when people point out the fact that Tesla has some serious financial problems and is burning cash and losing money and the fact that it has had some serious manufacturing problems - most of them because of sheer incompetence of the Tesla senior management; TTBs (Tesla True Believers) call them "haters" and say stupid shit like "they don't want Tesla to succeed."
Here's an opportunity to do a scientific experiment.
We have your model, that views Tesla with sheer incompetence of senior management.
We have my model, that views Tesla on the precipice of "owning" the automobile market and becoming one of the biggest companies on the planet.
I predict from my model that the precipice is about 3 months away, and that Tesla stock will shoot up and Tesla will be profitable before the end of the year.
I gather from your post that your prediction is that Tesla will crash and burn
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Yes, you may be saving energy in the short term. But are you really saving all that much after mining for the exotic raw materials to build these cars, ewaste, highway repair due to heavier vehicles, heavier load on our electrical infrastructure which requires higher generation of electricity(see fossil fuel still being used).
here is one source [technologyreview.com], I have stuff to do this morning or I could find some more
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What 'mining of exotix raw materials' are you talking about?
EVs are made in the real world, not in a SF world where you need Tritanium, Navquada or Dilithium crystals.
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Also the fact that these vehicles are heavier then others, and cause more wear and tear on the highways.
What, cars? The Model 3 is apparently considered to be a standard weight vehicle in the US.
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the ewaste factor alone should make people think twice about this. Also the fact that these vehicles are heavier then others, and cause more wear and tear on the highways. Causing more construction, more raping of our land for raw materials.
How do they compare (weight-wise) to the SUVs that are so popular on the roads today?
I'm sorry, but I have YET to see an electric vehicle that still does not harm the environment in all the same ways as our fossil fuel vehicles.
I suspect you're just anti, and any evidence we presented to negate your concern trolling would be largely disregarded. So I won't try. Your sig tells me you're not interested in actual discussion.
Plus they are not affordable for our lower income.
Neither were the first automobiles. It took years of development (plus the invention of the assembly line) to make them affordable for the masses. It's still early days for EVs -- battery technology is improving and cost is droppi
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"cause more wear and tear on the highways"
Buses and commercial trucks do thousands of times more damage than all the passenger vehicles and any extra "wear & tear" by EVs is tiny given the proliferation of SUVs and pickup trucks.
"they are not affordable for our lower income"
so don't buy what you can't afford
"want people like ME to subsides this shit"
I'm quite certain that plenty of stuff you care about but many others don't have been subsidized forever.
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Re:The Windows Phone of cars (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually a large percentage of electric vehicles are coal powered. Electric is only good for the environment if your electric power comes from non-fossil fuel sources.
It's still more efficient and uses less fossil fuels to produce energy at a centralized location at big plants than it is on-site in tiny little car engines. Sure, electric cars powered from solar power are responsible for less pollution than one's powered by coal plants... but both are less polluting than your average internal combustion engine.
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The Union of Concerned Scientists has a lot of information about this, including a tool to let you calculate the emissions of an EV based on your local grid mix:
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-v... [ucsusa.org]
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Would like to know what a human being's CO2 emissions are per mile....
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Plus it provides future fuel flexibility.
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CO2 is not a pollutant.
move yourself to an airtight room with only Co2 then.
Move yourself to a room with 100% pure oxygen.
Anything at too high a level is a pollutant. CO2 is already at levels that is harmful for our planet so, yes, is a pollutant.
CO2 is toxic at much lower levels than Oxygen. You can breathe pure oxygen for several days before you start experiencing any problems. CO2 at slightly elevated levels can have an almost immediate effect. Not to mention, CO2 causes global warming, perhaps the biggest problem facing our planet, and increased levels cause ocean acidification which is primarily responsible for almost
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Not at atmospheric pressure you can't.
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Move yourself to a room with 100% pure oxygen.
You're being argumentative without actually making a point. An impressive feat, to be sure.
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Lucky me. My next car will apparently be hydro-powered then.
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Actually a large percentage of electric vehicles are coal powered. Electric is only good for the environment if your electric power comes from non-fossil fuel sources.
It's 2018. If you still believe that disproven meme you're either a complete moron or a paid shill. There's is no longer any other justifiable way to describe a post such as yours.
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EV's are a ideal place to store energy generated by wind and solar when its not peak demand.