California Begins Trial Rollout of Digital License Plates (caranddriver.com) 192
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Car and Driver: California is taking its first steps toward America's first digital license plate. Using display technology akin to the e-ink used in the Amazon Kindle, a Foster City, California, outfit called Reviver Auto has come up with a digital plate that is now available on a limited basis in California, with the first fleet trial taking place on a fleet of 24 City of Sacramento -- owned Chevrolet Volt cars wearing plates supplied at no cost by Reviver. The new monochrome units -- which were also just rolled out in Dubai -- comply with reflectivity standards and are GPS enabled, allowing owners to track a stolen vehicle or at least its plate.
Owners accustomed to an otherwise-paperless lifestyle will appreciate that, thanks to the Reviver's Rplate Pro, registration can be paid via the internet, assuring that one never has to make a last-minute trip to the DMV's no-appointment Hell Line. It should also be a boon to companies with large fleets. What's more, it's easy to upgrade to a special-interest plate if one chooses to do so.
Owners accustomed to an otherwise-paperless lifestyle will appreciate that, thanks to the Reviver's Rplate Pro, registration can be paid via the internet, assuring that one never has to make a last-minute trip to the DMV's no-appointment Hell Line. It should also be a boon to companies with large fleets. What's more, it's easy to upgrade to a special-interest plate if one chooses to do so.
Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
"GPS enabled"
Guess we don't have to worry much about license plate readers if folks are willing to have a(nother)* GPS attached to them at all times.
Do folks really not think about the alternate applications of such gadgetry before they welcome them with open arms ?
*Smartphone attached to your hip being the other one.
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The tracking part is now just part of the product.
The Overton window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] has moved to full 1984 in CA.
Police, city, state and federal task forces now have the digital freedom to track every US citizen in CA.
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California has the best privacy protection laws in the United States, by far.
https://www.comparitech.com/bl... [comparitech.com]
https://www.wired.com/2015/10/... [wired.com]
The only vehicles with these new plates are state-owned vehicles. Also, there are strict limits with what law enforcement is allowed to do in California with informa
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Also, there are strict limits with what law enforcement is allowed to do in California with information taken from license plate readers. The data must be destroyed in 60 days. In Texas, there are absolutely no restrictions on the use of license plate readers.
How dare you stomp on people's narrative?
As for this "tracking" so many Slashdotters are having a hissyfit about, it can be a rough analogy to a DNA test. Me leaving my tracks all over the place - credit card purchases, fuel purchases leaving CC numbers as well as their security cams will provide me with a fine electronic alibi in the event I am ever falsely accused of anything.
Meanwhile, I would suggest the Slashdot Sensativi all drive 49 chevy Pick-um-ups, wear Dune style stillsuits to ensure they ke
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There should be some sort of middle ground between your narrative and complete state surveillance.
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There should be some sort of middle ground between your narrative and complete state surveillance.
I merely write what I do to illustrate the futility of the concept. of staying off the radar screens as it were. If a person's life needs to be 24/7 "i've got a secret" for 70 some years, they were born in the wrong millennium. they also might be fascinated in how little freedom they would have had in that surveillance free day and age.
People need to get the difference between a digital license plate and big brothe's cameras in your house. I know that's a quixotic task at Slashdot, but it does need point
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California has the best anti-coorpprivacy protection laws in the United States.
The state government spying for documented citizens is another matter, entirely.
There is no pro-privacy reason a digital license plate needs to have GPS built in.
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The only vehicles with these new plates are state-owned vehicles.
You missed the Subject of this story: "... trial rollout ...". That means what they're doing today is intended to expand tomorrow. The fact that it's only state-owned vehicles today is irrelevant. The time to object to this idea is now, not after it becomes mandatory for all vehicles.
Also, the fact that there are current limits on what law enforcement can do with such data today does not protect us tomorrow. The law can change, and will change the first time something major happens that tracking these plat
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It depends. If the idea is to eventually have all state-owned vehicles with digital license plates with built-in GPS , then I'm all for it. If the idea is to have all vehicles in private hands with digital license plates with
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It depends. If the idea is to eventually have all state-owned vehicles with digital license plates
Read the summary, at least. It talks about owners avoiding lines at DMV, etc. That means everyone, not just state fleets.
Fortunately, California is a state that has led the nation in privacy protection laws.
It's good to rely on the fact that laws never change.
Re: Wow (Score:3)
Look, the government already licenses you the carâ"that's why it's called a license plate. They know where you live, and I doubt it would be illegal for them (or a private citizen) to follow you around in a car with a normal license plate if they really wanted to.
It's not that you donâ(TM)t have a right to privacy, it's that driving my around is already a thing you do in public with the government's permission. As a matter of public safety while you exercise your driving privileges, they're going
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There is a huge difference between everything you just listed and having 100% mandated monitoring of where every vehicle is all the time.
Where you go ON FOOT is public information when you are outdoors, off your property. Do you think it would be OK to require everyone to wear a GPS bracelet whenever off his/her own property?
What you say is public information when you are outdoors, presumably off your property. Do you think it would be OK to require everyone to wear microphones on their clothes to transmi
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But as with any technology, this can and will be hacked...
Like the revolving number plates james bond had, but more flexible.
Have the GPS report a false location, have the license plate blank out or display a false number in the presence of traffic cameras or when speeding, but display a legit plate number when driving at the speed limit.
Not sure how this would help with online vehicle registration, do you actually have to go and buy physical plates? In most countries the plate is just an identifier which r
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"GPS enabled"
Guess we don't have to worry much about license plate readers if folks are willing to have a(nother)* GPS attached to them at all times. Do folks really not think about the alternate applications of such gadgetry before they welcome them with open arms ?
*Smartphone attached to your hip being the other one.
There are promising not to track employees in the test fleet cars. I'm sure they will continue to not use the tracking features. Wanna buy a bridge?
$700 for the tag, $7/month for the privilege of providing you location data and no doubt a letter warning you to replace the tag if you manage to disable the GPS. The only up side is Jobs would not be able to run without a tag since the dealer could install and activate it before the car rolls out the door...
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I've got a Hum box that tracks my car and some people have Onstar and equivalent.
We buy that with reason.
Also, look at Find My iPhone or Google Device.
I don't care if LEO or advertisers know where my car or phone is, but I sure as hell care that I know where that stuff is.
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There's a difference between one under control of a private company and one under control of the state. It's not much of a warrant veil, but it's something.
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I'd argue it's worse. Sure a corporation can try to monetize my movements and habits but the state can throw me in jail.
We already have stop light cameras to automatically issue tickets. Now we can automatically send out traffic tickets for speeders. And, as with the stop light cameras, there is no way for you to prove you weren't the one driving the car so you are automatically guilty. Maybe we will at least see a reduction in the police force, but I doubt it.
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To be fair we already have automatic traffic ticket. There are speed cameras that can be set up anywhere and record the license plate of speeding vehicles then issue the ticket to the owner.
As far as stop light cameras go, it is rather easy to tell if you are the one driving the vehicle since the camera takes a picture of the driver.
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That would be a difference. In Texas they don't for privacy reasons. (Could be awkward for the wife to see a picture with you and someone else in a car when opening the mail.)
Re: Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Wow (Score:4)
Or "Child Kidnapper"
The number of ways this can go wrong is nearly endless. But I expect that people will find themselves using them anyway as the system makes them more convenient than the alternative. People will tell themselves that they don't have any privacy anyway, and that hacks are rare and only happen to other people.
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"Kick me"
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A55 RGY for everyone!
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Car hits ped
Witness wants to report it
Needs to see plate number
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why? the car that hit the ped already reported the accident and self-drove itself to the nearest police station with driver locked inside.
The car identified that there was something in the road six seconds before running it down. It didn't know it was a person, and it didn't care that it was a large obstacle in the road, either. Why would it drive to a police station? It was just defending itself against a road-intruder.
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Most people would love to drive outside of peak hours if given the chance, but most of those people are forced by their employers to drive during peak hours. Taxing them more during peak hours will just be further punishment and won't do anything to ease congestion.
If you tackle the reason why people travel at peak times, then you will make a difference to congestion.
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Most people would love to drive outside of peak hours if given the chance, but most of those people are forced by their employers to drive during peak hours.
Most people do not drive for a living or need to be on the roads at any specific time. Some people work for delivery companies (UPS, FedEx, etc) that require delivery drivers to be on the road during working hours. Most people work for employers who want them at work BY a specific time and to leave AFTER another specific time.
The fact that you drive to work so that the difference between your arrival and "be here by" is minimized, or you leave as soon as you can, is YOUR fault, not the employer's. The emp
Technology looking for a solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
Too many people in IT think its about the Technology but IT is about the Information.
The project seems to connect registration with the tag yet most places let you type in a tag number and pay online. That is an expected information flow.
I also wonder how these will work in accidents. The tag numbers are usually the way of identifying the owners of the cars.
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The other way was to push malware onto a cell phone and expect the car, person and cell phone to always stay together.
A gps device that stays with the car at all times always allows CA law enforcement to track every US citizen using a car in CA for "reasons".
Drive near a protest that a government in CA
Re:Technology looking for a solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your Subject Line is spot-on thogard. Let's make an more-expensive, easy-to-update electronic version of an inexpensive, hard-to-update metal thing -- that actually never needs to be updated.
Case in point: I've had the same license plates on my 2001 Honda Civic and 2002 Honda CR-V since, well, 2001 and 2002.
The additional "features" of easy upgrading and large fleet boon are unconvincing -- how often will one mess with the license plates?
It should also be a boon to companies with large fleets.
What's more, it's easy to upgrade to a special-interest plate if one chooses to do so.
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The additional "features" of easy upgrading and large fleet boon are unconvincing -- how often will one mess with the license plates?
They will probably be messed with all the time, once the vulnerabilities come rolling in. Hey, maybe it will be the first truly secure piece of technology ever!
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You mean you have never put a new yearly registration sticker on your plate for the last 17 years?!?
Nope. And I didn't even change the license plate when I bought my car. Instead I just filed the paperwork so that the records show the car with this license plate is mine (and any fines go to me (but I didn't get to verify this part yet ;-)). Oh, and in my country registration stickers went out of favor a couple of decades ago. And the stickers that indicate the car is insured and has been inspected for safety are behind the windshield. This also ensures miscreants cannot tamper with them. See? There's a so
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Not all states require a sticker on the plate which needs to be updated. I've had the same plates in New York since before 2008 on multiple cars and I haven't touched them.
I would guess more states will go that route so they can save the cost of printing and mailing a sticker; especially since it is easy to run a tag and see if it is expired, especially as the tag reading camera systems proliferate. Plates have proven to be a durable solution for a hundred years; I've seen plates over 80 years old on cars. You can bang a trailer or back over something and the bent plate is still readable, how will plates hold up the first time something dents them severely? This definitely ap
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You don't steal plates from another vehicle, you clone them - then the owner of the other vehicle has no idea it's happened unless you do something that attracts attention like getting issued with a ticket that's sent to their registered address.
If you're going to do something illegal with a vehicle, you pick an extremely common make and model, and when you clone someone else's plates you find another vehicle which is the same as the one you have.
It's not difficult, and many criminals are already using thes
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More spyware... (Score:2)
This content is not available in your region (Score:5, Informative)
Congrats car & driver, you only had 2 years to implement GDPR, and it really isn't hard at all unless you are doing pretty screwed up things. I could read the google cache [googleusercontent.com] at least in order to discover the utter ridiculousness of $700 license plates with a $7 monthly fee! I guess you pay all that for the privilege of the state tracking you. I wonder who makes these plates, that's some serious state gov connections to get it going even at the pilot level.
Even without the tracking aspect, digital plates are the worst idea - a fender bender becomes expensive and/or could leave you with a non working plate, plates in general will certainly be harder to read and can potentially stop working, etc etc...
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I wonder who makes these plates, that's some serious state gov connections to get it going even at the pilot level.
Well, way back when, license plates used to be made in prisons. Maybe they still are today . . . ?
Now that would be brilliant if these digital license plates were made by convicted criminals. Folks in prisons used to learn how to crack a safe from other prisoners.
Now they can learn how to hack a plate
. . .
There's an APP for that! (Score:2)
Hacker heaven!
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The real problem is having license plates at all. You shouldn't, especially if it's going to have GPS. At that point it makes sense to just install a V2V beacon, that would actually have some utility to drivers around you. Pick a standard and let the meter readers nationwide be issued something to read it. In the bargain you can also remove the stupid front license plate requirement that some states (including California) still have.
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Congrats car & driver, you only had 2 years to implement GDPR
No I'm sure it would have killed them completely to not harvest your data and throw every tracking cookie under the sun at its users. There website wouldn't work without connections to:
caranddriver.com
api-prod.caranddriver.com
api.backfires.caranddriver.com
www.caranddriver.com
crazyegg.com
script.crazyegg.com
crwdcntrl.net
tags.crwdcntrl.net
d1z2jf7jlzjs58.cloudfront.net
d2bnxibecyz4h5.cloudfront.net
ensighten.com
nexus.ensighten.com
facebook.com
graph.facebook.com
facebook.net
connect.facebook.net
google-analytics.com
w
$699 + $7 per month? (Score:4, Informative)
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Why the blue fuck would someone pay that much money to trade away their privacy
GPS stolen vehicle trackers are already a thing, the real question is why you'd put your vehicle tracker in such an obvious and easy to remove place...
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At $699/car and $7/car/month? How is that cheaper than a minimum wage worker applying stickers?
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Rental car companies demand even more stripped down models than the manufacturers are willing to offer for direct sales to cut costs. Hard to imagine them swallowing a $700 device to track a car when that is already a pretty saturated field with cheaper devices. Further, given the presumed interest in theft recovery, putting it in the license plate, the first part of a car ditched after being stolen, seems like a poor choice to integrate the tracking facility.
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Using the vehicle's built-in GPS (basically any modern car) would be cheaper, because it's already there instead of $700. I assume most of them have a special program for rental/fleet - if they didn't, they would be crazy.
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Most delivery services already have a gps-enabled device which is used to track the driver's location as well as scan packages etc. Having an extra gps tracker on the license plate is not terribly useful.
Some delivery services let you track their driver on a map as he delivers packages to various other places on his way to you, it's quite interesting to see the routes they take and gives you a reasonable estimate of when they will show up with your delivery. Better than sitting around all day waiting for a
Owners accustomed to an otherwise-paperless.... (Score:4, Informative)
Owners accustomed to normal steel license tags will appreciate not having to pay $7/month for a digital tag. I mean really, get a notice in the mail once a year, mail in some money and a few weeks later put a sticker on my license tag. Once a year.
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Why, though? Why should you even have to mess around with a sticker once per year?
Australia, for example, is so inundated with ALPRs that their collective Departments of Transport did away with the annual registration stickers a few years back. The ALPRs are on all the major roads and highways and will send you a nice, automated infringement notice and SPER fine for dr
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Why should you even have to mess around with a sticker once per year?
Because lacking the right sticker is probable cause for police to pull you over, and they like to have a variety of those. There's no reason they couldn't just run the plate for any car they stop to see if it's been registered. And as you point out, the automated licence plate readers could easily do the same.
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And as you point out, the automated licence plate readers could easily do the same.
A LOT more easily. These things can scan 6 plates a second while driving down the street at 60km/h. A quick lap up and down the regular main roads and you've scanned thousands of vehicles. As long as the Big Brother element is taken care of (which it isn't) it is extremely effective at cleaning up the streets of bad drivers/cars.
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Did you even bother read the rest of my comment? In Australia they don't have registration stickers any more. At all. Never ever more.
Why should anybody have yearly stickers? They're completely pointless.
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Owners accustomed to normal steel license tags will appreciate not having to pay $7/month for a digital tag. I mean really, get a notice in the mail once a year, mail in some money and a few weeks later put a sticker on my license tag. Once a year.
You still have stickers? We got rid of those a few years ago. Cops have number plate recognition cameras on their cars so can scan every single vehicle for registration/stolen/owner with loss of license/other as they drive down the road. I heard the latest patch now does facial recognition too which is under testing.
Big Brother is already here...
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I think the town where I work has them now, but a couple of years ago I think they didn't because I was able to sneak by with a fake sticker for a month.
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Actually, many states went from one year, to two year, and now many don't require the stickers anymore at all.
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GODDAMNIT MAN THEY TASTE LIKE CANDY!
Wow - Internet Payment (Score:2)
I can't wait: "thanks to the Reviver's Rplate Pro, registration can be paid via the internet". Maybe, maybe if they would have said I could pay for it with "an app" I'd be sold. But really, almost all tag renewals can already be paid "via the internet", and they just mail you your replacement tag/decals. If CA can't do this today, start?
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That's how it works in CA today.
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Why would you want to run special purpose software just to fill out a form?
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California serves up supercookies? In spite of their own GDPR-like law?
At any rate, giving them access to all the info they can scrape from your phone seems worse. Just use a LiveCD?
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Why would you want to run special purpose software just to fill out a form?
Because the app has many, many forms, and you can link it to an account with all your details so the form fills itself in for most things. It also serves as a digital license so no more plastic. I worked on a project that built exactly this and it works great. Our state has over 800 licenses with dozens of different agencies, and most of your interactions with them can now be done with one app and previously multi-page forms are now a couple of drop-down lists and check-boxes. It really is a major improveme
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Does your webbrowser not automatically fill out forms for you? If not, I highly recommend you update. Also, I'm not sure I've ever found filling out a form difficult.I assume while your state has 800 licenses, most people have one or two, and it probably maxes at three or four. As someone working on the project, you naturally had to fill out tons of forms, and in testi
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Does your webbrowser not automatically fill out forms for you?
No. Because every other evil web page would include a 1x1 pixel form down in one corner that idiot web browsers would fill in with my personal data.
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I can't wait: "thanks to the Reviver's Rplate Pro, registration can be paid via the internet". Maybe, maybe if they would have said I could pay for it with "an app" I'd be sold. But really, almost all tag renewals can already be paid "via the internet", and they just mail you your replacement tag/decals. If CA can't do this today, start?
Yup, came here to say exactly this. The only time I go to a state license agency storefront is when I'm very late in renewing - which, admittedly, is not exactly uncommon...
This just seems like a complete waste of technology. Metal license plates can last *decades*. What problem are they trying to solve here, anyway?
Use case? (Score:2)
What's the use case for an e-ink license plate?
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To take a pile of money from an idiot.
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And what else could it be? You take a rugged thing that doesn't need electricity and replace it with something fragile that does. And you take something that you don't want to ever change and you make it able to change. About the only way this would make sense is if they were going from e-ink to metal plates. Going the opposite direction means you cause a pile of expensive issues while fixing nothing.
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What's the use case for an e-ink license plate?
Making sure that even cars without GPS incorporated into the car's onboard electronics can be tracked via GPS in real time. Got to make sure that Jay Leno's vintage cars are properly taxed per mile when they enact the mileage tax because of electric cars not paying gasoline taxes.
Strat
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But that's a use case for GPS plates. Presumably one could do that without e-ink.
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But that's a use case for GPS plates.
These digital plates have GPS built-in. The point being that the GPS is the *actual* goal, not the convenience for vehicle owners. That's just the "sell" to help get them adopted with minimal push-back and then eventually required for every vehicle.
Strat.
Hackable? (Score:3, Funny)
I wonder how long until someone hacks it with goatse.
TFS and TFA at odds (Score:5, Insightful)
TFS makes things sound all unicorns and rainbows, but farther down TFA things get a little muddy -- which make me think the editors didn't read it through:
We also expect them to be targets for vandalism in San Francisco and Oakland. After all, it’s basically akin to putting Google Glass on one’s car, or, at the very least, a sign reading “Kick me, I’m the reason your landlord’s evicting you.”
The units are also expensive. ... a Reviver setup will run you $699 for the digital plates, plus about $7 a month in recurring fees. That’s a pretty steep gouge just to trade away what little privacy you have left in exchange for not having to check the mail and place a fiddly little decal on your plate once every 12 months.
I don't have to go anywhere near the DMV (Score:2)
The DMV only sucks in "Starve the Beast" places that intentionally under fund government services so they can point and
What's the advantage? (Score:2)
Stolen cars are going to have the gps tracked plate ripped off, maybe chucked in the back of a random pickup to throw off authorities.
Where I'm from a car gets a plate when you first register it, when the registration runs out you pay for a renewal and keep the existing plate. They post a new label to put in the windscreen when you renew online.
As for vanity plates, it'll be cheaper for them to switch it but you can bet they'll charge you more for the "convenience" of OTA updates.
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Where I live, the car comes with plates and you never change them. In 25 years of car ownership i've never bought a licence plate for my cars.
Pay per mile driven (Score:2)
Once these become ubiquitous, California will more easily be able to implement their proposed Tax on miles driven [sacbee.com].
Car and driver unavailable in EU? (Score:2)
"Sorry, this content is not available in your region." The shit is ridiculous, I don't understand why they would block EU users from viewing their content.
Tracking and advertising (Score:4, Funny)
Aside from the implications of the built-in GPS tracker, do note that the plates are designed to show advertising. They show the full-sized number while the vehicle is in motion, but when stopped, the number can be reduced in size, shoved in a corner, and the rest of the plate used to display ads. At the moment, for corporate fleets, the idea is for the corporation to display whatever they want. It won't be long before private plates also become advertising platforms.
Cars (Score:4, Insightful)
What a backward people you are.
We have one plate, on a car, it stays on that car pretty much for its life.
You then pay "road tax" (not actually true, but that's what it's called by people), online, verified with your recent vehicle test results, that you're insured on the insurance databases etc. and if you fail to do so, any police car with ANPR will flag you as you drive past, certain places (like London's congestion charging zones) will check your plate as you drive through, any traffic warden knows you're not up-to-date, and your car can be towed away.
No stickers. Nothing to "steal" / "forge". No new plates. No chips inside plates. No offline process necessary (but you can still do it in any ordinary post office like for the past 50 years).
I thought America was supposed to be at the forefront of technology and progress?
Yeah, right ... (Score:2)
" The city says it will not use the plates to track workers. "
Am I the only one who tacked on "for now" to the end of it?
Side note: Anyone want to start a pool on how long it is before one of these plates gets hacked?
How long ... (Score:2)
Why would you need digital plates? (Score:2)
Its not like the license plate number changes on a regular basis so why do they need to have an LCD/e-ink display?
It also isn't necessary to have a digital license plate to do online registration of the vehicle. Ontario (and I assume a vast number of other areas) has had the ability to do online renewals of registration for years.
Aren't they already digital? (Score:2)
I don't see the purpose (Score:2)
All I see from the article is " it will cost a lot, and we will charge you a monthly fee to do what you do now for free. The benefit is it saves the DMV time and effort".
If so, why are the end users paying for it?
What a TERRIBLE Idea (Score:2)
Ferret
Wow, pay over the internet!?!?!? (Score:2)
registration can be paid via the internet, assuring that one never has to make a last-minute trip to the DMV's no-appointment Hell Line.
What moron actually goes into DMV to pay car registration? I've been paying online for about the last 10? 15? years? It's been so long that I've forgotten when I started paying that way. And what this has to do with a waste-of-money 'digital' license plate is beyond me.
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Yep -- have to tax by the mile, more during rush hours, more on congested roads, etc.
Funny, there's already a way to tax mileage on electric cars without being intrusive assholes. Tire tax, combined with annual inspections of tread depth. But California seems to want to track everything that moves.
by mile is hard across lines (Score:2)
by mile is hard across lines and it may kill toll roads.
also do you want rent cars to have forced admin fees?
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Wouldn't reading the odometer during inspection be more reliable? Any idiot can buy tires across state lines and pretend they haven't driven at all. It takes a little more work to modify a digital odometer.
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No, you can't say that. Because it's not state mandated, in fact it costs $700 + $7 a month so almost no private citizens are going to jump at the opportunity.
What it is, is a city of Sacramento mandated tracking device for city of Sacramento employees while driving city cars. They expect it to reduce fleet tracking costs. I have no problem with that form of surveillance.
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10 years? I'm going on 18 with my plate right now and no end in sight. (Though I'll admit the annual registration stickers are getting a bit thick as they tell you not to remove the old ones when applying the news ones, and the renewal month sticker has faded completely to white)
My father's plate is now 34 years old. As for reflective coating. Government gave up on that 25 years ago, "cost savings"
Solution without a problem comes to mind.
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The plate is just an excuse, the plate would work just fine without GPS and most cars already have GPS anyway.
Having GPS for navigation is a far more compelling reason to put GPS into a car, as it serves an extremely useful purpose for most people unless you never drive to places you're not familiar with.
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If you're a techie long enough, you eventually realize there are some things tech is fantastic for, some things it's hit or miss on, other things it should never need be applied to. It sounds like you've discovered that already.