Microsoft To Stop Offering Support For Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Old Surface Devices in Forums (betanews.com) 156
An anonymous reader shares a report: Microsoft has announced that starting next month it will no longer be participating in the technical support forums for Windows 7, 8.1, 8.1 RT and numerous other products. On the software front, the company says that it will also no longer provide support for Microsoft Security Essentials, Internet Explorer 10, Office 2010 and 2013 as of July. It is not just software that is affected. Microsoft is also stopping support for Surface Pro, Surface Pro 2, Surface RT, Surface 2, Microsoft Band and Zune. Some forums will be locked, preventing users from helping each other as well.
Bummer (Score:5, Funny)
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I wonder whether the hardware parts are just a smokescreen for trying to make it harder to continue with Windows 7 instead of giving in and moving to 10 if you don't really want to.
Ironically, given the average usefulness of Microsoft's forums, they may have just improved the search result signal/noise ratio enough that they've actually extended the useful lifetime instead...
Re: Bummer (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:Bummer (Score:5, Insightful)
I can only speak for myself, but the UI in Win10 is not the main objection
Not being able to manage when updates are applied
Telemetry
These are my issues.
I understand that MS changes the UI so that people do not wonder why they are spending money on an update.
What I don't understand is why people fall for that.
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Our deal-breaking reservations are much the same, though it seems the UI is also significantly worse than 7 because of the weird-Metro-hybrid doing-things-in-more-than-one-place factor. On the other hand, there also seem to be few good reasons to upgrade. There don't seem to be many big improvements even today compared to 7, except that 7 is no longer getting updates for compatibility with newer hardware and communications standards, and only has a limited window left for security updates. The most compelli
It's mostly the UI (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree that spyware and telemetry are serious problems. But I think you have under-appreciated exactly how terrible the "new" UI is. They basically have gotten rid of everything that we use to tell one UI element from another. Everything looks like a background element. Nothing looks like something you can actually interact with. There are no borders to help determine where one element ends and another begins. Title bars blend in with the rest of the window. It's like someone on some seriously powerful dru
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Eliza just scans for random keywords than gives pre-baked responses in an effort to fool the reader into believing the question was actually read.
The fact that Eliza even tries would be an improvement.
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Eliza doesn't try, it just is (and it was available for my Radio Shack Model 1 back in the day, written in Level 2 BASIC!). Unfortunately, the original comment is right on - it's been at least a year or 2 since I've seen a response allegedly from MS in any MS forum that hasn't been obviously a bot pasting mostly irrelevant text. Any actual support in MS fora has come from other users, not MS. OTOH, if that's the level of "support" MS is willing to provide, then the least they could do is leave the fora open
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At least with Linux support fora, if you can get past certain attitudes, [...]
The problem is, there is very little else in Linux "support" fora.
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Eliza just scans for random keywords than gives pre-baked responses in an effort to fool the reader into believing the question was actually read.
The fact that Eliza even tries would be an improvement.
Come come, elucidate yourself.
Re:Bummer (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm one of those people with Surface 2 RT. To be honest, the support has been a lot better than I've seen with any Android device I've ever owned. 4.5 years after I bought it, and I'm still getting my regular monthly software patches. Microsoft may have made some mistakes with the Windows RT line (mostly only allowing signed code), but support is one of the areas where they were strong, even long after the platform was declared dead.
I still use my Surface 2 to this day, and find it hard to justify getting something new, because it still works quite well as a tablet/media consumption device, which was my primary purpose for it.
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Where am I going to get support for my Zune!?
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ZuneChan?
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Damn it, you made me google that.
Windows RT was a huge screw up by MS (Score:3)
I'm one of those people with Surface 2 RT. To be honest, the support has been a lot better than I've seen with any Android device I've ever owned.
If that isn't damning with faint praise I'm not sure what is.
Microsoft may have made some mistakes with the Windows RT line...
"May have"? You don't need the qualifier. It was a huge and expensive fuck up on their part. It was an intentionally and needlessly crippled product with no obvious benefit to customers that was outperformed by better devices running uncrippled Windows and it was an object lesson in terrible branding. (you don't call something Windows when people have an existing expectation for what that means) Microsoft tried to create a device in between
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Yes and No, my experience has been mixed. Between my Surface Pro 3 and my wife's Surface Pro 4 and all the shitty hardware that comes with it, MS has been very good with support for the hardware on the devices. Both of our SPs have been replaced under warranty, we've gone through 4 pens and 3 keyboards between us too.
Software support from MS on the other hand is a miserable failure. Getting security patches is not support. It's base line minimum expectations. Their replies and presence in the forums are mos
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> Getting security patches is not support. It's base line minimum expectations.
It's only baseline minimum expectations because you're getting it. As CastrTroy said, if you're using an Android device, your baseline expectations are not to get any update.
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> Getting security patches is not support. It's base line minimum expectations.
It's only baseline minimum expectations because you're getting it. As CastrTroy said, if you're using an Android device, your baseline expectations are not to get any update.
Not at all. It's still a general baseline expectation. If you're using some Android devices then it's likely they aren't meeting your baseline expectations. The expectation is still there.
Speaking of: Galaxy S7 users here, my phone has been regularly getting security patches. Shop around.
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I'm one of those people with Surface 2 RT. To be honest, the support has been a lot better than I've seen with any Android device I've ever owned.
LOLOLOLOL!!!
Talk about "Damning with faint praise!!!!"
That's the funniest thing I've read today...
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Where will the 15 Surface owners go to for support?
One of the many fine Linux distributions, of course.
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Actually, I'm still thinking about buying a used, maximally equipped Surface Pro 2, because even today I cannot find a similarly potent device of the same size (10.8") and weight anywhere at all, let alone one that is fully Linux compatible, which has been reported to be true for the Pro 2.
Now the Microsoft forum's closing wouldn't be a tragic loss for my use case, but of course Microsoft's behavior is preposterous notwithstanding.
How Old?? (Score:5, Informative)
Surface RT - 2012
Surface Pro - 2013
Surface Pro 2 - 2013
Surface 2 - 2013
How does this compare to apple? I think macOS High Sierra runs on laptops from 2009 onwards?
Re:How Old?? (Score:5, Funny)
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Hardware incompatibilities continue to occur in the 21st century, though not nearly as often or as harshly as before.
I installed Xubuntu 18.04 on a new Dell Inspiron 11 3000 series laptop (Pentium CPU, 4 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD) two days ago, and my Xubuntu partition feels much faster than Windows 10 on the same hardware. But I still had to edit a config file as root to get the Home, End, Page Up, and Page Down keys to work [dell.com]. The laptop's keyboard controller has a bug such that those four keys send only make (key
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I read the bug report. It effects any interactive windows programs as well.
The fix was creating one copy paste text file. I have no idea if it was fixed for windows (I would hope so...)
To me, that's easier than how I usually have to fix problems in windows (finding the right driver and possibly trying to roll back the driver if the new driver is worse.)
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The fix was creating one copy paste text file.
And having enough of a reverse-engineering mind to undo the automatic emoticon replacement and adapt instructions intended for one Dell Inspiron 11 3000 series model to another Dell Inspiron 11 3000 series model. And discovering and adapting to the required syntax: exactly one space before name=value pairs, and no blank lines permitted at all. It's not entirely a matter of copy and paste.
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Have you not used Linux since 1997?
That was the most terrible attempt at trolling I've seen in a while. Up your game, or at least update your game.
HINT: Complain about systemd or pulseaudio. That always works these days. Doesn't matter what your complaint is or how badly formed it is, you'll get everyone to agree with you if you use those trigger words.
Re: How Old?? (Score:2)
Probably the only truly bad think left with Linux is that
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I think you forgot to remove your Windows install CD.
Re: How Old?? (Score:3)
click the playonlinux button, then click excel. :(
Never thought that would need saying on slashdot
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https://www.macrumors.com/2018... [macrumors.com]
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Oh (Score:5, Insightful)
Like you can actually get any help in Microsoft forums.....
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I just love how you almost always end up with some indian dude telling you how to reboot in 10 steps as a solution for everything.
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Not quite everything- after the reboots, you reinstall, remember?
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Which ends on a reboot :)
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That's exactly right. The Indian dude, we should note, is a MS employee assigned to the forums. It may not be rebooting; more commonly it's a link to someplace else that gives instructions that are irrelevant, but the effect is the same as telling you to power cycle. The main effect of MS not "participating" is that there will be less noise. However, MS also tends to delete actual useful info that is indexed by search engines, and that is bad.
Re:Oh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is Microsoft's main purpose? (Score:5, Funny)
But I came here for an argument!
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Exactly.
The Microsoft "Engineers" on their forums have always been borderline incomprehensible and/or comparable to chatbots dispensing useless pre-baked responses. Who cares if those go away?
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Whenever I had a Windows problem and Googled for help, I might find threads on an MS forum: almost always, simply dozens of people asking the same question; no answers except maybe "update your system".
Then I go to msfn.org and ask and usually get a real answer.
Anyway, I've been thinking about upgrading from WinXP to Win7.
All my commercial software is OK (no need for MS Office beyond 2003, which does all I need and can read current files), annoyingly it''s the free stuff that is dropping support; when they
That's a load of crap... (Score:5, Insightful)
considering Windows 7 doesn't EOL until 2020. I think Microsoft needs another pimp slap from the anti-trust folks in the US Government. This is a blatant attempt to make currently popular versions of its operating system appear less secure in an effort to consolidate everyone under Windows 10.
After months of usage, I've come to the same conclusion as when it was first announced -- Windows 10 sucks. I don't need a tablet/phone interface on my desktop. Their attempt at giving us a "regular" desktop really doesn't cut it either. I do not need the internals obfuscated so that "normal" users find it difficult to affect them as that makes it difficult for IT staff to reach them as well unless I learn a whole bunch of new shortcuts. Shortcuts that are there just because Microsoft decided to change how access worked; not because workflow is better or follows the Vulcan principles of logic -- just because they needed a UI change.
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So then if they claim copyright we can claim "abandonware".
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You never get "support" from Microsoft. All you get are patches. They will not accept your calls if you have bugs, or help you resolve any issues. As long as you're getting security patches then you're getting full support. All the non-security patches these days seem like attempts to either get you ready for Windows 10, add more Azerbaijani language support, or fix an obscure issue in remote desktop.
(my apologies for Azerbaijanis who are experiencing remote desktop issues in Windows 10 for painting you
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After months of usage, I've come to the same conclusion as when it was first announced -- Windows 10 sucks. I don't need a tablet/phone interface on my desktop.
Are you sure you're running Windows 10 and not Windows 8(.1)? What about Windows 10 is like a tablet/phone interface?
Their attempt at giving us a "regular" desktop really doesn't cut it either. I do not need the internals obfuscated so that "normal" users find it difficult to affect them as that makes it difficult for IT staff to reach them as well unless I learn a whole bunch of new shortcuts. Shortcuts that are there just because Microsoft decided to change how access worked; not because workflow is better or follows the Vulcan principles of logic -- just because they needed a UI change.
I would love if everyone who posts on Slashdot went to user testing to see how it actually works. It could be that the winning UI just wasn't what you want, I've definitely experienced that outcome when testing what I create. It's not like they sit there wringing their hands and go "hahaha, how can I explicitly piss of fallen1 now?"
Re:That's a load of crap... (Score:5, Informative)
Windows 10 is a 100% phone/tablet interface. You can easily verify that yourself: they did away with the right mouse button.
I noticed it the first time with my 3G WWAN: before, Windows 7, I could right-click on it and "connect": immediately online. Afterwards with Windows 7 I had to doubleclick and then connect through dialogs. Much more clunky, takes longer, very much phone like.
The whole "settings" abomination works the same way. All the menus are made phone compatible.
Correction: not a 100% phone interface. They are apparently incapable of actually fully replacing the old control panel what the "settings" crap is supposed to do.
So yes, I have "tested" Windows 10 and running it. I'm not sure if you are however.
How about some actual flaws (Score:2)
Windows 10 is a 100% phone/tablet interface. You can easily verify that yourself: they did away with the right mouse button.
That's strange. I'm typing on a Windows 10 machine to make this comment and my right mouse button works just fine. If you want to criticize Windows there is plenty to choose from without making up a bunch of bullshit that is obviously wrong.
Correction: not a 100% phone interface. They are apparently incapable of actually fully replacing the old control panel what the "settings" crap is supposed to do.
The old control panel is available if you prefer it. Just hit the Windows key on your keyboard and start typing "control panel" and it comes up just fine. Make a shortcut to it if you prefer it. I do this all the time. But the newer settings functions work just fin
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I keep running into settings in the "new" control panel that don't actually connect to the right registry entries to make a change to the setting.
Such as?
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I was thinking the same thing, but I right clicked on the network icon and it really doesn't give options except to start one of a couple of dialogs.
I don't have windows 7 handy, but I would be willing to believe that the right click context menu I'm seeing is pretty crippled compared to what they probably had in Windows 7.
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Left clicking worked for me. All the available wireless connections are displayed.
Right clicking gives me the choices to troubleshoot or open network manager.
I'm at work so maybe it works different on the home edition?
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That's what I see too, but I also don't have a WWAN connection, so I don't know what sort of stuff he may be facing...
It could just be muscle memory (maybe right click used to have a bunch of options, but that's under the dialog when you left click) or maybe legitimate issues (right click used to have a longer menu of one-click shortcuts that got moved to a multi-step dialog). I wouldn't attribute either of them to being more 'tablet-like', and more about 'dumbing down', to whatever extent it may be true.
I
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The right click (sometimes) works,yes, after all it's the same mouse with the same buttons, but there is nothing there. Since tablets don't have it, Windows cannot put anything relevant there or the UI is non-usable to tablet users or with touch monitors another highly publicized Windows 10 "feature". The way they gave a crippled start menu back for example where you cannot drag and drop inside the menu with the mouse anymore: too awkward on tablets I guess. No, the quicklinks at the right do not count. Ins
Re:That's a load of crap... (Score:4, Interesting)
There are so many misfeatures in the Win 8.1 and Win 10 user interface, I wish I could read transcripts of the highly paid experts at MS who discuss them (or don't..). It seems beyond imaginable that actual UI experts or human factors experts actually have a say, or get more than a token comment in over marketing and strategy people who want to push a long-term strategy.
Right now my favorite is the burying/obfuscation of the "old" control panels for the Win 10 settings screens. You used to be able to get to them by right-clicking the start menu, but now you have to search for them. Some Win10 settings actually pop up old control panel interfaces.
I don't doubt MS has some kind of user testing data to validate their decisions, but I can't help but wonder how much selection bias is built into their decisions -- cherrypicking testers who think think will validate their decisions vs. actual random samplings of existing users.
I think MS might actually just be gambling hard on some futurism, assuming they have existing users so locked in it doesn't matter what changes they make, and focusing all their UI changes on people 16-22 because they represent the future.
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I honestly don't have a problem with windows 10. In fact the powershell support has become so great that I'd say windows 10 (with the exception of updates without the enterprise version) is the easiest version of windows for a professional to manage. I also find it odd that IT staff would not be constantly learning and growing their skillset. I'd hope to god they are not managing windows by using RDP or visiting each machine. This is the realm of group policy, powershell, etc. Learn it or get relegated back
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In fact the powershell support has become so great that I'd say windows 10 (with the exception of updates without the enterprise version) is the easiest version of windows for a professional to manage.
OK, how do you disable the store on a per user basis? Group policy settings are explicitly ignored when set to do this.
How do you centralize update downloads and approval/deployment?
I know you excepted it but that's not acceptable.
How do you publish or deploy applications based on group policy?
Once manually deployed, how do you keep them that way and not get uninstalled during the next quarterly service pack update?
How do you standardize or even create a default profile?
How do you standardize a default sta
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"How do you centralize update downloads and approval/deployment?
I know you excepted it but that's not acceptable." - You buy enterprise or you use intune
"How do you publish or deploy applications based on group policy?" - GPO software deploy has existed for a long long time. On top of that there are other tools to meet this need that are better than GPO (SCCM, intune, 3rd party tools, etc) This is again no different than any other version of windows.
"Once manually deployed, how do you keep them that way and
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The technologies you mentioned are not a silver bullet. PSH works until you hit a bug with PowerShell remoting that makes it simply not work any more without any useful error. It is also incredibly slow in comparison to SSH and probably the reason that it will be replaced by it in the future as the preferred transport method (it works right now in the latest versions).
Some cmdlets are unstoppable even in the new console window in Windows 10. You can press Ctrl+C all you want, but for some operations it won'
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So sadly self-destructive, it is difficult to joke (Score:3)
Joke: Yes, Windows 10 is useless. However, the World Huge Association of Monkeys, WHAM!, says you are not sufficiently respectful of monkeys. Monkeys act in their own self-interest.
With Windows 10, Microsoft has been extremely self-destructive. If Microsoft had spent a billion dollars running ads trying to get negative responses from professionals who are knowledgeable about computers, those ads would not have been as
How about criticizing actual problems? (Score:2)
After months of usage, I've come to the same conclusion as when it was first announced -- Windows 10 sucks. I don't need a tablet/phone interface on my desktop.
If you believe this then you haven't actually used Windows 10. It's desktop interface is pretty much exactly what Windows has been since Windows 7 and not much different from XP in practical terms. It does not have a tablet/phone interface unless you explicitly tell it to behave that way. There are plenty of things you can criticize about Windows without making up shit that doesn't actually exist in the product.
Their attempt at giving us a "regular" desktop really doesn't cut it either.
I use it daily at work and it's fine. It's exactly what one would expect from Windows, good a
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Can you explain why they fractured the Control Panel / Settings? Why it takes 15 clicks between two/three different panels now to adjust a network connection?
Control Panel still there (Score:2)
Can you explain why they fractured the Control Panel / Settings? Why it takes 15 clicks between two/three different panels now to adjust a network connection?
Since I don't work for Microsoft you'll have to ask them for their reasoning. But it's just different routing to the same stuff for the most part. I think they were trying to make it easier to use for the things that happen most often. You can debate whether they succeeded or not but it certainly does not take "15 clicks" or anything close in most cases. It's not like the old Control Panel was a paragon of ease of use even if you were accustomed to it.
If you like the old Control Panel it's still there a
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Oh well. That makes the move to full Linux a no brainer!
Microsoft forum experience. (Score:5, Insightful)
U: I have a problem with xdog.dll not regestering and giving result code 0x32De32
Top Solution--------
MS: Hi this is sanjay. I will help you with this problem now. Have you tried system restore: **Irrelevant ms KB article**
I will now walk you through windows re-install **Irrelevant KB article** Link to irrelevant microsoft fix it.
Other solutions:
U: You need to replace the dll with version 32.64.99 and try again.
So no big loss.
Re: Microsoft forum experience. (Score:1)
This is consistent with my experience.
StackOverflow is free, provides useful answers, and is also compatible with non-Microsoft systems.
Reddit... (Score:2)
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So easy to set up a subreddit for "Win 7 Support." If Micro$hit doesn't want to host the forums, they're not needed.
And lets face it, the Microsoft forums are pretty useless anyway. They are usually the last place I go if I am having an issue.
Yay (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience, the advice on Microsoft forums always boils down to the following anyway: Save all of your data an reinstall Windows from scratch.
The advice is pretty useless in many circumstances, but since most people don't have the time&money to sue Microsoft for their own loss of time & money, the advise always works for Microsoft. If I could bill Microsoft for every hour I've spend fixing what their operating system messed up, I could be a rich man...
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In my experience, the advice on Microsoft forums always boils down to the following anyway: Save all of your data an reinstall Windows from scratch.
MS never would say that. That would make sense, and fix the problem. MS's reps on the forums on the other hand will go out of their way to post long instructions to do something that is entirely nothing at all to do with your problem.
Sidenote: The one good thing MS did in Windows 10 is ensure the that nuclear option no longer deletes user data and can be doen with one click.
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wait, what support? (Score:2)
Uh, MSFT doesn't really support anybody in the Forums. Sure you'll get an occasional MSFT employee who provides some clues as to why something that they wrote is broken but that's rare. Remember, there *used* to be a lot of QA people and others who provided answers but those folks are long gone. There are other sites that have better information than some point fetish fairy looking to tell you to "refresh your installation." You know the ones I'm talking about, one level above the "IT Crowd." They troll
That's the way to build a community: (Score:2)
Office 2013 is only five years old? (Score:2)
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It's getting the boot because Office 2019 comes out this year. But it's weird that they did this first.
Windows 7 is the last Windows running on my machin (Score:1)
A while ago I decided Windows 7 will be the last Windows running on my machines.
Disabled and blocked all that I could find that reports and unnecessary info back to whoever. I also control traffic via the network firewalls. Only installing security fixes and even those after a few weeks / months after I read about them not causing issues with stability of the systems.
I'm happy to report that my systems are way more stable than at any time in the past.
Once MS stops providing security patches to the OS I will
IE 10? (Score:2)
Your choices for a currently-supported Microsoft browser are: IE11 on any platform it's supported on, Edge on Windows 10, and IE 9 on Windows Server 2008 (non-R2) SP2 which is the Vista generation of Windows Server and is supported for another year and a half.
Those few poor slobs on that 2008 non-R2 are the ones to feel sorry for - IE9 is the best from Microsoft, Chrome doesn't support it an
Windows 8.1 (Score:1)
Windows 8.1 is not that old. Isn't this premature?
Bummer dude, Windows 8.1 w/ Update 1 Best OS Ever! (Score:2)
I just love Windows 8.1 with Update 1 installed. IMNSHO it's the most underrated MS OS of all time.
Should have been called Windows 9, but I'm aware of the potentially programmatical impasse that might have caused with Win9x apps. Of so they said IIRC
Windows 10 is way too intrusive and I simply don't like it.
Locking forums to support marketing strategy? (Score:2)
Some forums will be locked, preventing users from helping each other as well.
This is outrageous.... if people are still using Windows 8, then don't interfere with the community supporting each other,
Or, perhaps, people will stop trusting your forums in the future and setup their own or move to Linux.
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It's just another way to force you to upgrade. Fortunately there are forums like bleepingcomputer, Tom's Hardware and others to take up the slack.
That's fine (Score:2)
In my experience, Microsoft tech support participation in forums just gets in the way and increases frustration. Typically it's an offshore person pasting in a script like "Please update your video drivers to the latest version". And then a user who actually read what the OP had written offers the real solution. So, really no loss.
Windows 10 = perennially beta (Score:2)
The only reason to run Windows is for device support. It doesn't really need to be how I use the Internet. It works well with Garmin GPS, camera, SD cards with DJI footage, bass guitar., etc. My long term support involves air gapping Windows 8.1 from my network.
My issue is Windows 10 is always beta. One day I looked at the updates status of a bunch of laptops in a store. Almost all of them had update 76 (it was Dec 2017) failing. But users don't even know it is failing to update. The intelligence in
Can MS forums also be removed from Google search? (Score:2)
MS forums are a rather comical example of the dangers of "playing to the metric". I suspect most would be better served if they were shut down in their entirety and all traces purged from search engines.
There are much better alternatives for crowd sourced support.
Hah (Score:2)
Microsuck can eat me.... (Score:1)
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Let that be a lesson to all of us: Don't use vendor support forums. Use independent forums.