President Trump Directs Pentagon To Create New 'Space Force' Military Branch (defensenews.com) 513
Gunfighter shares a report from Defense News: President Donald Trump on Monday appeared to sign an executive order directing the Pentagon to create a new "Space Force," a move that could radically transform the U.S. military by pulling space functions variously owned by the Air Force, Navy and other military branches into a single independent service.
"I am hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces," Trump said during a meeting of the National Space Council. "That's a big statement. We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal. It is going to be something. So important," Trump added. "General Dunford, if you would carry that assignment out, I would be very greatly honored." Dunford responded in the affirmative, telling Trump, "We got you." The oddity of Trump's statement was that it was followed up with a White House readout that "contained no language related to the creation of a new military branch, leaving open the question of whether Trump has actually issued formal guidance to the military," reports Defense News. It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
"I am hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces," Trump said during a meeting of the National Space Council. "That's a big statement. We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal. It is going to be something. So important," Trump added. "General Dunford, if you would carry that assignment out, I would be very greatly honored." Dunford responded in the affirmative, telling Trump, "We got you." The oddity of Trump's statement was that it was followed up with a White House readout that "contained no language related to the creation of a new military branch, leaving open the question of whether Trump has actually issued formal guidance to the military," reports Defense News. It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
Keeping another campaign promise (Score:5, Funny)
Dammit
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It sounds expensive.
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The oddity of Trump's statement was that it was followed up with a White House readout that "contained no language related to the creation of a new military branch, leaving open the question of whether Trump has actually issued formal guidance to the military," reports Defense News. It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
So much brilliance I can't even see. Maybe they'll start with the military proposing some options instead of going straight to establishing this idea. Maybe the Pentagon was directed to work on some options. Hey, just a crazy thought. I know it is far fetched and would not expect reporters to think of such wildly crazy approaches.
Re:Keeping another campaign promise (Score:5, Funny)
It is believed that Trump still needs the support of Congress to actually establish a space force.
Believed? Seriously, what a weird way to run a country.
Re:Keeping another campaign promise (Score:5, Funny)
Us goddiggetydam limeys might not have a constitution, but at least we obey it.
Re:Keeping another campaign promise (Score:4, Insightful)
He will then oppose her if he thinks he should, but not in a totally random, unpredictible way. (I don't live in the UK, but also happen to have a lady Prime Minister, and a chap as the opposition leader).
Re:Keeping another campaign promise (Score:5, Funny)
So you're a Kiwi. Why didn't you just say so?
If I admitted to that you could probably figure out who I am. There are not many of us if you rule out the PM and the Leader of the Opposition.
Also, her baby is not mine, OK?
Re: Keeping another campaign promise (Score:5, Funny)
but do you think they will still rent all the spacecraft from the russians?
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but do you think they will still rent all the spacecraft from the russians?
Why not? We're already renting our President from them.
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> Maybe the Pentagon was directed to work on some options
Aren't they too busy planning the invasion of Canada?
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It sounds expensive.
Space is going to pay.
Re:Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:5, Informative)
I may be mistaken but my recollection is that Congress was involved in splitting off the Air Force from the Army and creating a new armed service.
The Army/Air Force split is a good example of how to do it badly. First, the Air Force only acquired the Army's air assets. The Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard still have their own aircraft. Since the Army felt that the USAF was ignoring their needs to close air support, they built a parallel air force based only on rotary wing aircraft (which they were still permitted to have).
So the US has five different air forces, which different aircraft, procedures, and protocols. We are using helicopters in missions where they are inappropriate for purely bureaucratic and political reasons, and the Army's need for CAS is still not being met. When the different branches are forced to work together, such as on the F-35 project, the politics and in-fighting resulted in the worst and most expensive military boondoggle in the history of the world.
Re:Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:4, Insightful)
It looks like five different aviation commands, but it's actually nine, and some say operationally, more. Think: DHS, DEA, NSA, CIA with more likely.
This is a PR stunt, and a sabre-rattling exercise. US space assets are easy targets.... and so are the assets of almost everything out there, given laser and microwave weaponry.
It's all for the fake news press, folks. Nothing to see here.
Re:Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:4, Interesting)
> US space assets are easy targets
One of the things I learned while researching the Excalibur article is just how true this is.
The whole idea of SDI was that your defensive systems would be cheaper than the ICBMs, so you could afford to win any possible arms race. And this was true at first glance - the Smart Rocks interceptor, for instance, was basically a big Sidewinder. The problem is that they were housed in a "garage" that contained all the power, comms and detectors, and those could be shot down with a missile the size of a Sidewinder (appropriately delivered) which meant the Soviets would win any possible arms race.
But then there was the killer stroke. Excalibur was an x-ray laser, and throughout its testing, there were questions whether it could actually generate enough energy to destroy a missile. The answer turned out to be "no". But it turns out that the sensors on the platforms, of any sort, are *fantastically* susceptible to damage or blinding by *much* less energetic lasers. So the Soviets could basically blind the entire fleet of SDI sats by deploying a couple of gas-dynamic lasers across the country. And there was nothing anyone ever figured out to address this, one physicist concluded it was "impossible".
Things haven't changed much. ASATs remain very low-cost solutions to taking out an opponent's assets, and because they're so small they can be lofted by really inexpensive launchers. In comparison, the satellite you're attacking is huge and in some cases required an entire Space Shuttle to put it up there.
Re:Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:4, Interesting)
So the US has five different air forces, which different aircraft, procedures, and protocols.
This didn't sound right because I recall reading somewhere that the USCG does not train any of its own pilots, they recruit them from other services. So I did some research and I found that not only does the USCG not train any pilots themselves all helicopter pilots for USCG, USMC, US Navy, and USAF all train at the same Navy base. My guess is that the US Army has a large enough group of their own helicopter pilots that they train them on their own base somewhere but the training is similar enough to the other branches that the USCG will take US Army pilots.
For another example I took a look at the C-130, an airplane I remember an Army buddy saying he took a ride in before. Sure enough it is used by USAF, USCG, US Navy, and USMC. Turns out all pilots that fly a C-130 will train at the same base regardless of which branch they serve.
Each branch certainly does in fact own their own helicopters and cargo planes. Given the size of each branch it makes sense that, as an example, the USCG flies their own HC-130 variant air frames to refuel its helicopters. Just as the USMC flies the KC-130 variant to refuel its helicopters. Given that they all trained at the same school as the Navy pilots it's no surprise that once in a while a US Navy KC-130 will refuel USMC and USCG helicopters and US Navy helicopters will refuel from USMC and USCG planes.
As for the US Army helicopters? Fuck them, they can't refuel from anyone... Oh, wait, that's not right. US Army helicopters routinely refuel from tankers flown by the USAF and other branches.
Perhaps you need to review your assumptions.
We are using helicopters in missions where they are inappropriate for purely bureaucratic and political reasons, and the Army's need for CAS is still not being met.
I can agree that perhaps the Army's need for close air support is not being met this is not because of some kind of miscommunications between the branches. This is because the A-10 air frames that have served this role are getting very old and the DoD dropped the ball on finding an adequate replacement. There's certainly some politics involved here. The USAF wants to be rid of the A-10 because it's a money pit from maintenance issues. There's people in the USMC that are willing to take the A-10 air frames as they see value in the role they serve in spite of the cost. The US Navy is objecting because they are not equipped to provide the logistics for an air frame that cannot be launched from a carrier. The powers that be in the US Army are split on taking the A-10 but that gets to what you point out on the Army being typically barred from flying fixed wing combat aircraft.
When the different branches are forced to work together, such as on the F-35 project, the politics and in-fighting resulted in the worst and most expensive military boondoggle in the history of the world.
The F-35 is a boondoggle. I'm not so sure that the different branches were "forced" to work together on this project. There was certainly promises of sharing resources and therefore reduced costs in the long term. It's not looking well for the F-35 so far, especially as I look at the F-35C carrier based variant.
The F-35 was supposed to fill the role of the A-10 but there's some concern that the current weapons that can be fitted to the F-35 will match the firepower of the 30mm cannon that the A-10 carries.
It comes down to the F-35 being too fast, Army helicopters being too slow, and the just right A-10 getting too old. Perhaps the Army's new V-280 can replace the A-10 if fitted with a cannon.
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Do you have any citations for the A-10 being expensive to maintain? When I googled that topic I found news articles saying that the per hour operational cost for the A-10 was about a third of the projected costs for the F-35. The USAF wants to ditch the A-10 because it represents money they can't spend on sexy new fighter jets. The top brass in the USAF has traditionally been heavy with fighter jocks, that leads to a group think that just wants more sleek jets. If the age of the A-10 air frames was really a
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Re: Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm still trying to figure out why we need yet another branch of the military. If all they do is space, then what how do they engage in combat?
There is already a "space force" within the USAF. There is also small number of satellites operated by other military branches, as well as civil agencies that have a direct support role to the military. This USAF space force is getting large enough that it's become in effect a separate branch on its own. Not quite the size of the US Navy but if broken out from the Air Force it could easily be on par in size with the US Coast Guard. The USCG is not a military service but it can be called upon to serve in war. There are other services with a military structure that perform support services to the military, and so share a rank structure and uniforms with the military. These services are called "uniformed services" and uniformed services include the military services.
The USCG was already mentioned as one uniformed service that could be called upon to serve under the DOD in war. There is also the US Public Health Services Commissioned Corps and NOAA Commissioned Officer Corps. As I understand it the USPHS has officers that they "loan out" to the various military branches to serve as medical specialists on military bases and ships at sea. The NOAA don't necessarily get "loaned out" like USPHS officers but they operate at sea in parallel with the Navy and USCG for watching the weather. I believe the NOAA has aircraft they fly from Navy and Air Force bases.
Anyway, the point is that even a non-combat capable force may be needed to manage space assets in support of the other military branches. Just like we already consolidate weather forecasting and medical care in uniformed services. The Navstar GPS satellites would be one asset that would be most definitely transferred to the "space force". Then there would be spy satellites and communications satellites, and perhaps even weather satellites even though the NOAA already manages some already. Separating the space force off from the USAF would mean the USAF can get back to flying airplanes and leave the managing of satellites for the benefit of all military branches to the new space force.
Perhaps one combat role the space force could command would be the fleet of ballistic missiles. The space force could be in command of anti-ICBM and anti-satellite systems. As I recall the US Navy has some anti-satellite capability and if this capability is shared or transferred to the space force then maybe we could see the space force with it's own fleet of blue water ships.
It sounds like the USAF wants to wash its hands of the space based military assets, they want to be in the business of dropping warheads on foreheads. Things like GPS and spy satellites are a general military need, not something unique to the USAF. When it comes to things like creating budgets we might see the Army wanting more satellites for something but the USAF not wanting to give up manpower and funds to do it. I guess the Army can get, and likely already has, a small "space force" of its own.
Seems to me this is more of a directive to answer the questions on how this space force would work, what assets it would manage, how large it should be, where it would have bases, what kind of training it would have, and so forth. POTUS can want a new space force but without knowing exactly how it would work he can't bring a proposal to Congress to create it as an entity separate from the USAF.
Besides, what do we refer to the personnel as?
In the early days of the USAF they were called "soldiers" until they agreed on "airmen". Is it correct to use "guardsman" refer to those in the Coast Guard? Those in the National Guard? Both? Neither?
Re: Consolidating what is already going on ... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm still trying to figure out why we need yet another branch of the military. If all they do is space, then what how do they engage in combat?
Space is much like air. You drop things from it that impact the ground. Think of it as an AF drone operator operating a vehicle at a much higher altitude.
That's not military at all. In every branch of the armed forces, every single person has a combat role attached to their military specially.
A family member made that very clear. He was a paratrooper at Bastogne. He shared his frozen hole in the ground with a truck driver who had not fired a weapon since basic training back in the US. The driver was one of the volunteers that brought in the last bit of supplies before the encirclement was complete, they were surround immediately after his truck made it in.
That said, again, how would "space force" personnel maintaining, launching and controlling vehicles from a safe location be any different than AF personnel maintaining, directing and possibly controlling aircraft from an equally safe location in the US or an allied country?
Marines are...well...Sailors with guns, or jarheads, or "couldn't be a seal"s
1. Marines are an entirely separate and independent branch of the armed services. They are not Navy, nor are they sailors. A sailor with a gun is the Yoeman who hit the target once in basic who is then trained (tertiary) as the automatic rifleman in case a shore party is needed. [Not slamming the Navy, that's how another family member described his service. Job 1: manning a typewriter. Job 2: manning an Oerlikon 20 mm AA cannon. Job 3: Shore party, automatic rifleman. He was thankful he only saw combat via job 2. ]
2. Many Marines could be SEALs, they merely preferred to serve as a Marine rather than a Sailor. Similar story for many Special Forces and Rangers. Some Marines are equivalent to SEALs, MARSOC, elements of Force Recon, same standards, skill set and training, cosmetic difference. Similarly some Special Forces are equivalent and arguable superior to SEALs as some SF have a larger skill set. When you have an individual that makes it into SF, MARSOC or SEALs that particular individual would most likely have made it into any of those specialized units, they just preferred one branch of the service for whatever reason. Well, that's how the former Vietnam era SEAL that was a manager at a company I used to work at described it to me. He said selection for all these special operations type units selects for the same thing, basically finding those who were born with a personality type that will just not quit something they start regardless of the physical and psychological pain. He said muscles, weapons proficiency, that was all relatively minor. That nearly any healthy athletic intelligent individual could be trained to be as strong and proficient as necessary. The military has known how to develop strength and proficiency for millennia. The real problem is finding the person born with the necessary personality type that just won't quit.
But yeah, I understand, Hollywood tells you different.
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Space is much like air. You drop things from it that impact the ground
If you drop something from orbit, it doesn't impact the ground. It stays in orbit with you.
Re: Keeping another campaign promise (Score:4, Informative)
The United States Air Force was in fact previously the Army Air Corps. Since the Navy operated a lot of aircraft too at the time some assets from the Navy moved to the Air Force. Also at that time the US Army was in a separate War Department and the Navy in the Navy Department. This created some confusion and logistics issues in World War 2 as each branch had separate standards on things like gas masks and even boots and blankets. The Air Force was created at the same time the Army and Navy were consolidated under the Department of Defense. This created standards that would be shared among all military branches to remove much of the logistics issues that they experienced previously.
One issue of debate was if the Navy would be able to keep it's aircraft or if the new Air Force would be flying planes from aircraft carriers. The issue was resolved in that land based aircraft would be flown by the Air Force. The Navy and Marines could only fly aircraft launched from ships. The Army would not have any fixed wing combat aircraft but could keep some fixed wing non-combat aircraft (cargo and VIP planes mostly) and could have rotary wing aircraft.
I could see a similar issue arising. The US Navy already operates some satellites, only communication relay satellites as I recall. Then there are satellites operated for military support by civilian government agencies. Obviously the Air Force operates most military orbital assets now. How would these assets be distributed? I'm guessing the Navy might be reluctant to give up control of their satellites.
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It still strikes me as plain stupidity to assign assets to defence forces on the basis of whether those assets walk, fly or sail. Surely it is better to assign assets to forces appropriate to their tasking?
I'm not so sure that's exactly how things work. As someone that served in the Army I see it this way, the forces are divided to manage people, not weapons. People that operate mostly at sea will need training different than those that operate mostly on land, or in the air.
Two big issues in the Navy for survival is staying afloat and fighting fires. This means every Navy person has to know how keep from drowning if they go overboard, and put out fires so they don't have to jump in the water. The Marines
Re:Another PATENTLY RETARDED and SUPERFLUOUS promi (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the worst of Reagan's brean-dead mind boggling expenditures in the name of "conservatism?" and you traitors of no particular ideology eat it up because a traitor promised it? Lol. Mueller's keeping a promise also!
The Air Force has satellites, the Navy has satellites, the Army has satellites. Consolidating 3x management resources into one is mind boggling expensive, how exactly?
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Also CIA, NSA and the NRO. Also maybe some of the NASA stuff also. http://www.nro.gov/about/nro/w... [nro.gov]
Re:Another PATENTLY RETARDED and SUPERFLUOUS promi (Score:5, Funny)
Consolidating 3x management resources into one is mind boggling expensive, how exactly?
So now every satellite can use the same design process as the F-35, so they can attempt to surpass it as the most expensive military boondoggle in history.
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Mainly because, the Air Force, Navy and Army will continue to have satellites, and this will just add more. Take the air force for example. When the coast guard has to perform a search and rescue operation, do you think they call up the air force and ask to borrow a helicopter and a pilot? Do you think the Army does that? Navy? Marines? How about boats? Does everyone go to the Navy when they need a boat?
When the Army needs forward air cover, yes, they do indeed call the Navy for carrier based air support. If the Navy in turn needs strategic bombing, yes, they do indeed call the Air Force.
The point here is that now if any of them need satellite coverage, they would indeed call the Space Force (or whatever they call it).
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"Separate but equal" means one branch will be getting hand-me-down textbooks and asbestos infused ceilings.
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The Air Force has cars, the Navy has cars, the Army has cars. Do you think we should be combining the management of these assets into one combined "Car Force"?
I find straw man arguments quite entertaining; keep up the good work.
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Keep up. Alex Jones (I bet you don't even know his former persona, whose death was faked) is a tool of the deep state.
True Patriots trust Q, Sessions, Kansas, POTUS, and The Plan.
Re:Another PATENTLY RETARDED and SUPERFLUOUS promi (Score:5, Insightful)
What the Hell does this have to do with Reagan? He was a Conservative and a Republican. A real one.
By today's Republican standards Reagan would be a RINO.
Marvin the martian (Score:2)
He'd make the perfect mascot.
Separate but equal? (Score:5, Funny)
Is there any subject he can't bring racism into?
Gundams? (Score:5, Funny)
If we don't have Gundams, what's the point?
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He saw the action figures coming out of Japan and figured they were real and on the Pentagon's purchase list.
Re:Gundams? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why else would he be pushing to get the Koreas talking to each other?! Obviously he's trying to get all the forces behind Giant Robot production lined up as allies.
Headquarters and starfleet academy (Score:5, Insightful)
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Should be in San Francisco.
Baikonur, Kazakhstan would be a better choice.
At least you can put humans into space from there.
The proposed Space Force will look quite silly, if they don't have any spacecraft. Kinda sorta like a navy without any ships.
Maybe the Russians will lend us a couple of Soyuz capsules for out Space Marines . . . ?
. . . or maybe Google is working on AI Space Drones for the DoD . . . ?
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You can also put people into space from Florida. I believe we may have done so once or twice already.
Not in the last 7 years.
Re:Headquarters and starfleet academy (Score:4, Funny)
Well clearly something is wrong.
#PFBWIW
(put Florida back where it was).
OMG, the speilchucker tried to change flordiia to fluoride! Froth froth vaccines froth froth gay marriage froth froth death panes froth froth
NO it's in Cheyenne Mountain! (Score:2)
NO it's in Cheyenne Mountain!
Re:NO it's in Cheyenne Mountain! (Score:4)
Just don't put it in San Diego because it gets destroyed by terrorists with a leftover nuke in 2157.
Needs a better name (Score:2)
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I like Orbital Command. It's not like anyone's going to be doing anything past low Earth orbit anyway. And Space Force implies that they have some way to use force from there - which so far it seems not. Unless we have space nukes that can be launched from satellites. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised if we do.
Re:Needs a better name (Score:5, Informative)
And then there are all those treaties prohibiting militarization of space ...
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Right - if we have that, it would be a secret until such a time as we have to actually drop a bomb from there.
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Or it gets hit by a bit of space debris and breaks apart, spewing a cloud of radioactive dust over the planet as it de-orbits and burns up in the atmosphere.
With what could possibly go wrong, I'd actually be a little surprised if we were so stupid to have broken the treaties and have put nukes in space. Rods from God? Maybe. Lasers? Possibly. But nukes? Probably not.
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Maybe he thought "Space Cowboys" was a Documentary? ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0186566/ [imdb.com]
Which treaty is that, exactly? (Score:5, Informative)
> all those treaties prohibiting militarization of space
Which treaty is that, exactly? The 1957 treaty talks about putting NUCLEAR WEAPONS in space. The President has not announced any plan or intent to put nuclear weapons in space.
Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit? Or for that matter, ballistic missiles, which fly through space? There is no treaty prohibiting militarization of space.
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THIS. Why the hell aren't I seeing way more about the treaties prohibiting militarization of space!?!?!?
Technically, I guess he hasn't said he was going to arm anything in space, and we already have military use of space through several agencies by means of GPS, imaging, etc, but then WTF is the point of this so called Space Force?
It's right there in the first sentence of the summary: "pulling space functions variously owned by the Air Force, Navy and other military branches into a single independent service"
Because there is no such treaty (Score:5, Interesting)
You're not hearing about "the treaties prohibiting militarization of space" because there are none.
There is a 1957 treaty about putting NUCLEAR weapons in space.
Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit?
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THIS. Why the hell aren't I seeing way more about the treaties prohibiting militarization of space!?!?!? Technically, I guess he hasn't said he was going to arm anything in space, and we already have military use of space through several agencies by means of GPS, imaging, etc, but then WTF is the point of this so called Space Force?
What's prohibited exactly.. By my understanding only nuclear and WMD type weapons are prohibited from being stationed in space. That leaves a lot of military capability areas to develop.
Evidence of necessity? (Score:5, Interesting)
This kind of stuff takes a lot of money. Is there any proof or compelling evidence that we *need* a space force separate from what our current military provides?
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Re:Evidence of necessity? (Score:4, Informative)
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I don't know the financials -- but I can easily see how it would improve efficiency, if you've got other other branches of the military all trying to maintain their own initiatives for things related to outer space and satellites.
You could gather up all of the existing technology and weapons from the different branches and say, "These now belong to this new military branch. You no longer have to fund them or worry about them."
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I dunno. The creation of the Air Force didn't keep the Navy and Marines from each having their own air wings, all with different needs to fill and thus different aircraft. And attempting to unify them [wikipedia.org] has cost probably more than what it would cost to just design three separate aircraft.
So while it does make some sense to consolidate where possible, odds are they'll just end up creating more bureaucracy.
dom
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For that matter the Army has its own aviation service, it's just statutorily limited to rotary aircraft.
Does it really make sense to tell the Army, "You can fly, but only using certain technologies."? Wouldn't it make sense to allow them to fly ground attack aircraft, just like the Marines do?
No A-10 for you (Score:3)
For that matter the Army has its own aviation service, it's just statutorily limited to rotary aircraft.
Does it really make sense to tell the Army, "You can fly, but only using certain technologies."? Wouldn't it make sense to allow them to fly ground attack aircraft, just like the Marines do?
The Marines are not always allowed to fly a ground attack aircraft. For example they are not allowed to fly the A-10 despite the fact they would love to and the Air Force brass hates the A-10. The A-10 is not aircraft carrier capable so the Department of the Navy says no A-10 for you.
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Yeah, there's the looming North Korean nuclear missile threat.
Oh, wait...
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Just look where the competition is investing. Fast and hard to stop conventional weapons are seeing a massive surge, which is to say hypersonic cruise missiles. Russia, China, India, Taiwan ... all seeing major R&D for them.
Space gives you something even better, rods from god. I'd say there is more necessity to it than say JSF for conventional military superiority.
Re:Evidence of necessity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, For what egomaniacal reason Trump is doing this is beyond me, but devils advocate, I don't hate this idea. If this is what we have to do to fund research into space vessels where large numbers of people can live without the hazards of space cutting their lifespans in half, I am all in. The one thing this country has repeatedly demonstrated is that, while it begrudges nasa every cent, there isn't a military spending bill that won't instantly pass. This could be a back door into developing a second wave of technologies that we export to the rest of the world, much in the same way we stimulated the economy with the first space race.
However, my gut tells me we will just start shooting drones up there.
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Ok, For what egomaniacal reason Trump is doing this is beyond me, but devils advocate, I don't hate this idea. If this is what we have to do to fund research into space vessels where large numbers of people can live without the hazards of space cutting their lifespans in half, I am all in. The one thing this country has repeatedly demonstrated is that, while it begrudges nasa every cent, there isn't a military spending bill that won't instantly pass. This could be a back door into developing a second wave of technologies that we export to the rest of the world, much in the same way we stimulated the economy with the first space race.
However, my gut tells me we will just start shooting drones up there.
The Air Force already defends space.
The big problem with a "Space Force" is that it's an announcement that you're weaponizing space, which means that Russia, China, and the EU are now challenged to do the same. So you've now introduced a whole new domain of conflict and the corresponding money drain required to fight in that domain.
It's not that space is entirely peaceful now, satellite defence is a real issue, but symbolic gestures can have pretty big consequences.
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This kind of stuff takes a lot of money. Is there any proof or compelling evidence that we *need* a space force separate from what our current military provides?
Sure.
None of them is a major branch of the military founded by Trump.
Just like the prophecy (Score:3)
Here come the W.E.N.C.H.E.S.
"Women's Emergency National Corps, Hospitality & Entertainment Section" for those who've never read "All You Zombies"
Cyberspace (Score:5, Insightful)
.... Seems like cyberspace is the more pressing thing to defend.
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.... Seems like cyberspace is the more pressing thing to defend.
So you must be pleased that's also happening, as has been exhaustively covered. That major Trump-favoring outlet the Washington Post, even, just wrote a long piece about how work done in that area is being aggressively ramped up.
Ronald Reagans Star-Wars project... (Score:3)
...for those of you in here, old enough to remember that, this will bring a little smile on your wrinkled faces.
Drain the swamp! (Score:5, Insightful)
This Jackoff (Score:2, Informative)
Do you think anyone in his administration has mentioned to Trump that the United States is bound by a treaty, ratified in 1967, which specifically forbids militarization of space?
Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies
https://www.state.gov/t/isn/51... [state.gov]
I mean, I understand that he wants to do anything he can to distract us from the fact that his campaign manager is sitting in a jail cell, his personal atto
Read your own link, or at least the summary (Score:3)
You might wish to read the page you linked to, or at least its summary, at the top of the page. The President has not announced any plan or intent to put nuclear weapons in space.
> which forbids militarization of space?
It does no such thing. Did you forget about SDI and the hundreds of military satellites currently in orbit?
Re:This Jackoff (Score:4, Informative)
Do you think anyone in his administration has mentioned to Trump that the United States is bound by a treaty, ratified in 1967, which specifically forbids militarization of space?
No one has ever respected that treaty. The US and USSR put weapons into orbit as soon as they practically could. There don't seem to be any nukes (or, at least, none that have leaked, and they likely would by now), but simple kinetic-kill anti-satellite weapons in orbit? You bet. Heck, the USSR had an "armored" sat (presumably slightly thicker tin foil) to smash into other sats as a low tech cheap weapon.
but does he really think anyone but the most dedicated MAGA chud is going to think the SPACE FORCE is anything but the butt of future jokes?
Russia used the same name [wikipedia.org] for years. The Russian Space Forces used to be a separate armed service, now it's a branch of the Aerospace Defense Forces. I've worked with a Space Forces veteran, and I think there's one who posts to Slashdot occasionally.
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WRONG!
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.
The Moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military maneuvers on celestial bodies shall be forbidden. The use of military personnel for scientific research or for any other peaceful purposes shall not be prohibited. The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the Moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.
No nukes/WMDs anywhere in space. No military bases or testing on celestial bodies.
However, you can have weapons that aren't nukes/WMDs in space. You can have military personnel aiding or participating in scientific research, or doing anything else peaceful.
You have your energy research lab on the moon, guarded by military people.
You have your Ion Canon in LEO, run by the military.
The work the energy research lab does just so happens to overlap with the way the Ion Canon directs a energy beam to a pr
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
concentration camps on our Southern border
Calling them that is an insult to every victim of the Holocaust. I'm old enough to have known dozens of survivors, and you are insulting them with that hyperbole.
Also, why blame Trump when this has been happening for years? The picture from 2014 that came out recently showed children being separated from their parents and put into cages years before Trump was elected.
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This is my favorite new line of argument from MAGA chuds. It's the most cynical kind of virtue signaling.
But before you spout off defending the memory of people who were victims of the Holocaust, maybe we should ask a few Holocaust survivors what they think:
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/co... [theguardian.com]
Except this all started under Obama.
Re: This Jackoff (Score:4, Informative)
True, but it would take an act of Congress to do so. Not just an Executive Order.
Re: This Jackoff (Score:5, Insightful)
I really, really, hope you are trolling.
If serious, it's comments like these that make me just want to turn Amish and disappear into the woods/nature/BFE/etc.
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You must not be caught up on the news, sir. I believe that tent cities filled with certain groups of people are the very definition of concentration camps. If you aren't going to stay informed, you should probably be less judgemental.
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They are absolutely keeping children in concentration camps.
First, maybe we should establish a definition of "concentration camp"" According to Merriam-Webster, a concentration camp is, "a camp where persons (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees) are detained or confined"
https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]
Next, we should establish that Trump is indeed keeping children in such
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Let's also be clear...
https://slate.com/news-and-pol... [slate.com]
What kind of person takes other peoples children hostage as a "negotiating strategy"??
Yes, I am going to use the T-word, terrorist, in this case.
Outer Space Treaty (Score:2)
It seems mr. Trump runs out of treatis to back out of here on earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Job #1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, the one-liners almost write themselves.
"It's fascinating to see an administration that's so anti-science enthusiastic about something that requires so much science."
"I hear the first job of the Space Force will be to build a really, really big wall to keep the green people out."
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He wants to keep out the illegal space aliens.
I know how we will pay for this! (Score:2)
I bet with another tax cut!
America is so great right now
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E.T. is going to pay for it. And for the wall between the space and the USA.
So... (Score:2)
This 'would' be interesting if it's first task was to establish military basis on the moon and mars within the next 10 years. Fully funded.
Can't imagine it will happen, BUT it would make for an interesting point where those promoting space exploration could use Republican talking point and say we need to settle mars to have a strong military. It is a matter of national defense. Having lived in north dakota where it is political death to vote against 'agriculture' I can imagine there are some uses in hav
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after all ,don't we need to take it over before china does?
Build a wall... (Score:5, Insightful)
around the whole planet! We'll make space pay for it! And we're gonna tariff the hell our of Jupiter! And any Martians that dare try to sneak through our wall, asylum or not, will have their little baby critters put into a small box and shaken! Because America... errr... Earth!
Thank little baby cheesus for family values and fiscal conservatism.
Moron...
Wouldn't you want to sign up? (Score:2)
I mean come on? At the very least, you'll get to play laser tag in zero-G.. how bad could that be?
If it helps develop research and development into space stations and long range spacecraft then it's a good thing, for non-military reasons.
As for a real military mission, defending our satellites and taking out an adversary's really can be decisive in modern war. To loose GPS, imagery, and flash heat sensors (to detect enemy missile launches or strikes) would be a huge loss, again a space faring adversary.
H
Oops! Forgot High School Physics! (Score:3)
You can go up, and if you have some fuel left over you can possibly do something else, then come back down.
If you decide to blow a few things up, it's Kessler Syndrome [wikipedia.org] time!
I Support This If... (Score:5, Funny)
It is required - by law - that the name of this organization always be pronounced: "SPAAAAACCCCCCE FOOOOORRRRRCCCCCE!"
Any other pronunciation would be criminalized.
Space Force Should Be Like Coast Guard (Score:4, Insightful)
Rather than the US Space Force being a purely military organization, it would make sense to have a Space Force structured like, and with similar missions as, the US Coast Guard. As people and businesses move into space, we're going to NEED some sort of spaceborne Search and Rescue organization, perhaps with vessel inspection capabilities and missions. Perhaps the Space Force can be tasked with inspecting commercial spacecraft and satellites and ensuring that they aren't hiding military equipment.
And in the event of hostilities, the Space Force would, similar to the Coast Guard, become part of the Navy.
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So he wants to be a 'war president" and yet ends the Korean war, and works hard on bring peace to the region? As its says in the book I'm currently readying, "You are as addled as an unhatched egg abandoned in the sun." An that is Truth.
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Re:Yes Trump Can! (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump absolutely escalated the situation, but the de-escalation is far below the "previous level".
The previous level included regular, albeit infrequent nuclear weapons tests and sabre rattling, which included rocks fired toward and even over Japan. The previous administration's response to all North Korean activity was to literally ignore it.
All of those tests were part of a program to get effective reliable Nukes and long range missiles.
They didn't stop the tests because Trump scared them, they stopped the tests because they got their Nukes and missiles working.
I'm not saying another President could have avoided that, but Trump's threats and bluster didn't avoid anything.
Trump, ignoring all of his inelegance, is the first US President to ever meet with a North Korean leader
Which has been a major NK objective forever. Something Trump should have gotten concessions for (recall the GOP scorn and outrage when Obama suggested he could meet without preconditions).
and, like it or not, he offered two very realistic outcomes to them:
1. Face annihilation in a war that they cannot hope to win with a people too starved to support a long war, let alone with the backing to do it (Kim didn't even fly on a North Korean plane to the meeting because they do not have one that can go that far!).
2. Open up and become a more traditional nation internationally, gaining the investment opportunities and thus money that that brings, while also giving up all nuclear ambitions, which should be easier since their testing site imploded.
That's a lot different than the "previous level".
It's the game NK has played forever, work on your Nukes and endure the rising tensions and sanctions. Then play nice and talk up peace and denuclearization in return for sanctions relief.
I'm sure the same thing will happen again, Kim will say all the right things and get whatever relief he can, up until he thinks his defensive capabilities are falling behind and then he'll start testing again.
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Our attempts to overthrow dictators in Iraq, Libya and Syria (and our coup of elected president in Iran) haven't worked out too well. Maybe we should try something different.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
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We could have gotten to the exact same point where we are now without any of Trump's puerile rhetoric.
Coming to the table, one-on-one, appearing on the world stage as an equal, was exactly what Dear Leader wanted. The Great Negotiator gave him that in exchange for basically nothing.
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He's activity did lead to the formal ending of the Korean War.
A peace treaty is being discussed. The formal ending comes when the treaty is signed.
Trump has directly met with the North Korean leader, something no other president could or would do.
No President was stupid enough to give the North Korean leader what he wanted and get nothing of substance in return.
Now what I've stated is simply fact [...] Simply, arguing with you people over it is not worth my time.
I bet you were brilliant on the high school debate team. We shall see whether you can resist the temptation to post more farcical inanities.
Re:Yes Trump Can! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Service guarantees citizenship!