New York City Just Voted To Cap Uber and Lyft Vehicles and Require Drivers To Be Paid a Minimum Wage (cnbc.com) 247
New York City Council passed regulations on ride-hail companies on Wednesday, capping the number of vehicles on the road for one year and requiring that drivers to be paid a minimum wage. From a report: Council Speaker Corey Johnson said earlier that the regulations are intended to protect drivers, fairly regulate the industry and reduce congestion. The year-long cap on new licenses for ride-hailing vehicles will take place while the Taxi and Limousine Commission (TLC) studies the effects of ride-hail service in the city. The cap would not apply to new wheelchair-accessible vehicles or new vehicles serving an area demonstrating need in a way that does not increase congestion. App-based ride services account for 80,000 vehicles in New York City, and provide 17 million rides per month, according to a study by The New School for the TLC. The surge in ridership coincided with increased resident frustration with the local subway system. With the move on Wednesday, New York City, the largest American market for Uber, has become the first major American city to restrict the number of ride-hail vehicles and to establish pay rules for drivers. In a statement issued moments ago, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio said," Our city is directly confronting a crisis that is driving working New Yorkers into poverty and our streets into gridlock. The unchecked growth of app-based for-hire vehicle companies has demanded action -- and now we have it."
Sounds fair (Score:5, Interesting)
According to statistics, a reasonable minimum wage adjusted from 1971 for NYC would be $40 an hour.
54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insurance (Score:5, Insightful)
54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insurance will hurt them big time.
Re:54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insuran (Score:5, Insightful)
54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insurance will hurt them big time.
Which is why the Taxi Companies pushed so hard for this.
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Average traffic speed in NYC is say 15 mph -- I'm being very generous by averaging Manhattan and less-crowded parts of the boroughs here.
$13/hr / 15 mph = 86 cents/mile
86 cents + 54 cents = $1.40 per mile.
Add insurance and you're probably close to $2 per mile.
Once you add Uber's profit, their charges will need to be pretty close to the $2.50 per mile that "regular" cabs charge.
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But, what happens when the major NYC cab companies experience totally coincidental and nearly simultaneous fires that destroy their garages and cars?
NYC finest are going to come looking for you to charge you with arson. That's what happens.
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54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insurance will hurt them big time.
Which is why the Taxi Companies pushed so hard for this.
How dare they push for a level playing field... The nerve.
Re:54.5 cents per mile + NY MINWAGE + full insuran (Score:4, Informative)
I travel a lot... in spurts. Like one year on, three years off. I use Uber exclusively because it allows me to handle my expense accounts cleanly. If I use Yellow in NY and Black in London, etc... I'd have to manage a bunch of receipts and scan them and all that shit. On the road, I even try to eat at places that accept either Paypal or Apple Pay so that full receipts are sent to my accounts there. On top of that, I only use airlines and hotels that allow me to pay with Paypal.
Taxi drivers and Uber drivers certainly make a large part of their income from locals. But locals who can afford taxis are generally people who are better at managing their money. In addition, people using taxis to get around the city in NY for business are expensing it. In either of these cases, the cleanliness of the payment system of Uber or Lyft is worth higher prices.
I honestly haven't even considered city taxi services in years because I simply don't want the hassle of doing expenses or even the added work itemizing on taxes.
The bad part for the taxi companies is that unless they were to collaborate on a massive international level to offer the same service that Uber or Lyft offers, they have no defense against this. Let's be honest, in a period of 2 weeks, I used Uber in NYC, Tokyo, Oslo and London... I had absolutely no problems and was happy to do it. I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to use a taxi in Japan, taxis in London are REALLY REALLY unreliable outside the two inner zones. And frankly, taxis in NYC are not too bad, but more often than not, my credit card doesn't work in their machines because of the massive amount of anti-fraud tech that is supposed to protect me as opposed to inconvenience me.
I think this will certainly hit Uber, but as you said, it will simply cause a price adjustment which has been needed anyway.
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and what about parking, repairs / maintenance, tolls, for the company cars May need some office over head and maybe even staffers to port cars around.
EXACT hours/schedule for driving jobs? It will happen where some will get an long ride at end of shift + an long return trip to get the car to the drop off point.
OR even just waiting at airport ques or let's say waiting an spotting event that goes in to overtime after overtime.
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Let's compromise on $45/hour min wage then.
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Let's just make it a $100,000/hour minimum wage, then people wouldn't have to work more than a few hours a year if they don't want, right? If we aren't going to worry about the other economic consequences, we can just set it to as high as we want and legislate everything into magical free wealth world, right?
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We hear a lot about self driving and automation of things we encounter in daily life. But consider areas like construction where 3d printed printed foundations and houses that are manufactured to be clicked together with a self-driving truck moun
Re:Sounds fair (Score:5, Insightful)
Why pick 1971? Why not pick 1938 when Min wage was first enacted into national law. That wage was $.25 / hr. Adjusted for Inflation that is just under $5 / hr. Thus proving that cherry picking is fun.
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Whatever way you look at it - wage has not kept pace over the years with how much more productive we've become.
https://media.newyorker.com/photos/590952681c7a8e33fb38a80d/master/w_774,c_limit/minimum-wage-chart-i.jpg
Re: Sounds fair (Score:2)
Also, greater productivity makes it less expensive to live. Consider how few people work in agriculture compared to 100 years ago, or even further back. We made food so cheap and accessible that obesity is a bigger problem than malnutrition.
Setting the minimum wage higher will not help anyone. You cannot afford to employ a person for more than their labo
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If a person costs too much, you have to use less people
If you use less people, there are less jobs
If there are less jobs, there is less money to be redistributed
If there is less money to be redistributed, there are fewer people buying your stuff or using your service.
If you raise your prices to compensate for lower demand, to increase wages, you'll lose more customers
It's a vicious circle. The answer is... we need something like basic income... but instead of basic income, we need a govern
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And then the world's wealth would very quickly all flow to countries like China that would still have sane economic and labor policies. Then the countries that implemented basic income schemes would have no money to pay out the basic income - either that or their currency would become worthless.
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If you think cherry picking is fun, I have some Eastern Washington orchardists that would like to chat with you.
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That assumes the 1971 minimum wage was reasonable. Do you have any reason to believe that?
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I don't know where you heard that. Manhattan is full of ubers and lyfts.I wouldn't be shocked if most of the cars were one or the other.
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However in a lot of neighborhoods in other boroughs, not that many taxis, so people may choose uber/lyft instead of a taxi there.
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But the number of taxis are regulated by the city to limit congestion.
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And also to limit competition.
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But the number of taxis are regulated by the city to limit congestion.
This is the official explanation. However I think it's not the only reason it's done...I'd venture to say that in most places, it's not even the main reason.
The main reason is to limit competition and basically guarantee a certain income for the taxi drivers / taxi companies.
Does it really also reduce congestion? I don't know. Let's say the amount of taxis was not regulated, so there would be more of them at a lower price. Would this maybe then get more people to use taxis, instead of their own cars, thereb
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It was on CNBC this morning, I heard it first time on Squawkbox I think.....got busy after that.
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December 31, 2018 $13.50 to $15.00
December 31, 2019 $15.00
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Not that simple. Minimum wage and workplace conditions laws exist because when they are lacking you can have very abusive situations - think Victorian factories. Individual jpeople may still prefer those abusive conditions to losing their jobs, but collectively its generally thought to be better to have laws that eliminated that sort of situation.
There is an argument that Uber and the like were taking advantage of their drivers by providing a workplace that doesn't meet normal workplace standards for minim
Re:Sounds fair (Score:5, Insightful)
Allowing desperate people to hurt themselves is poor governance.
I'm not a fan of the nanny state but I do recognise that many people have poor judgement and need some protection from those that would exploit them.
Uber exploit people.
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Drivers will use wheelchair accessible vehicles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Drivers will use wheelchair accessible vehicles (Score:5, Insightful)
So, what your saying is that Uber riders have to pay more, and my taxes no longer subsidize their drivers (through food stamps, etc.)? The free market gets to work?
Re:Drivers will use wheelchair accessible vehicles (Score:5, Insightful)
So, what your saying is that Uber riders have to pay more, and my taxes no longer subsidize their drivers (through food stamps, etc.)? The free market gets to work?
My kingdom for a mod point.
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So, what your saying is that Uber riders have to pay more, and my taxes no longer subsidize their drivers (through food stamps, etc.)? The free market gets to work?
How cute, you think that "minimum wage" will get Uber drivers off food stamps and Medicaid... Maybe a few will, but I doubt it will be many.
Just a guess, but I'm thinking that the bulk of Uber's drivers are just doing side hustles anyway. It's a way to increase cash flow in your spare time using your car. I'm also going to guess that very few of their drivers actually live in NYC, but end up driving there for fares because that's where the demand is and thus where you go to make money fastest. Finally, I
NYC is worth a visit (Score:2)
Really. It's a great city - and I say that as a Brit. Don't let your prejudices deter you!
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Really. It's a great city - and I say that as a Brit. Don't let your prejudices deter you!
It's not a prejudice in this case but preference. I was raised in the country and don't like cities or suburban spaces much. I'd rather spend my free time away from large groups of people and in the fresh air. So I don't feel the pull to "visit" the big city, or any city, but feel pulled away from the hassles you have to put up with in large groups of people. Give me a secluded beach, a hiking trail, a mountain side, or drive though the country.
BTW, I visited Manchester once. Found a love for English t
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Most Uber drivers are not doing it in their spare time. It's not worth it, the set-up costs like maintaining a decent car, keeping it clean, insurance etc. are too high. I don't know about NYC but many places require them to be licenced or get background checks done too.
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minimum "wage" also means over time pay... also it would then allow for benefits and holiday pay and such things. Uber Disrupted.
Uber just says that nobody can work full time, much less overtime. Then, all they need to do is stop sending you fares when your work hours are up for the week. Zero over time, Zero benefits, zero issues with the law.
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Yeah, your average Uber driver is going to spend the money on a wheelchair accessible vehicle.
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Or push them to to drive drunk, thus killing people [miamiherald.com]. But hey, why worry about all those other unintended consequences, right?
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Some fuckwit being too much of a cunt to stay out of the driving seat when drunk is the fault of the fuckwit.
There are always options. Like not getting drunk. Like not driving. Like walking home, getting a taxi, staying in a hotel or finding a police officer and telling them you want to drive home. They'll look after you.
Drunk driving is not a consequence of constraining ride sharing businesses.
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Unsupported by facts? You mean, facts like those contained in the study being cited?
Maybe you'd have more credibility if you weren't making a totally unsupported statement in opposition to a reference to actual facts...
A study shows ... (Score:5, Interesting)
... that studies cause problems.
Last week we had the story that said Uber was keeping people off the subways.
Now a new ordinance that blames people's increasing frustration with subway problems with the rise of Uber.
So it is imperative to force people back onto the subways they're frustrated with...
THAT will fix it!
Re:A study shows ... (Score:5, Informative)
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Subways in Japan are very nearly perfect, for the modern man.
Easy to say until you are pressed against the flesh of your fellow riders on a rush hour train in the middle of a hot humid summer, realizing that the train's air conditioning doesn't really work so great in those conditions. That's if you were lucky enough to get on the train in the first place.
Japanese trains are great for tourists because tourists have abnormal travel patterns and can avoid rush hour trains.
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Unless New York subways have gone downhill substantially in the last three years- you've got a system that people would kill to have in many other cities. I wish my town had a system that worked as well as NY's subways.
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Unless New York subways have gone downhill substantially in the last three years- you've got a system that people would kill to have in many other cities. I wish my town had a system that worked as well as NY's subways.
THEY HAVE!!! The MTA is horrible, unreliable and unapologetic. Just last week N, Q, R customers were stranded without warning for an hour despite the maintenance supposedly being 'planned'. MeanwhileCuomo keeps sucking dollars out of transit coffers to do stupid sh*t like spend $30M to add the state colors to the subway tile lining the battery tunnel. I have to pad my commute by at least 45 mins in order to ensure I'm to work on time, and at least once a month I'm still late!!!!
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Please.
Next I guess you'll be saying that NYC should be able to deploy as many red-light and speed cameras as required to lower the pedestrian/cyclist death rate.
Such hubris!
Fix the god damn trains! (Score:5, Insightful)
New York is one of like 2 to 3 US cities with an actual train system and it's falling apart.
I'm fine with capping Uber and requiring minimum wage, but for god sake fix Penn Station, dump a shit ton of money into the degrading subway system and invest in that critical infrastructure!
Re:Fix the god damn trains! (Score:5, Insightful)
Are roads any different? Texas couldn't find even one road [austincontrarian.com] that pays for itself. How can you expect transit to compete with that?
Yes, roads benefit people who don't use them, but so does transit by making room for more cars on the road. (People say that transit reduces traffic congestion but this is just as false [streetsblog.org] as the idea that road projects reduce traffic congestion.)
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Including all future maintenance and lighting costs, lost tax revenue from businesses that can't be built on that land, and lost income from other, more cost-effective uses of your tax money?
If freeways are such a wise use of money, then why doesn't the free market build more of them?
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If people really want to get from A to B, why can't the free market provide that service in exchange for money?
Or maybe the reason people go from A to B so much is because of the transportation subsidies. Which one's the chicken and which one's the egg?
If McDonald's gave away 100 free burgers a day and people lined up outside waiting for the store to open, did they line up becaus
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There are economic benefits to the public having mobility. People can find work further away, they can travel for entertainment, there are greater shopping options.
The demand for easy affordable transport exists but its provision is extremely difficult. The free market is excellent at catering to the high revenue demand but fucking terrible at providing for a common good.
I'll follow the other person's excellent advice and stop now before I get too frustrated with your idiotic argument.
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You can't claim that every square inch of land could become productive land.
For all land that's not owned by the state, there's an owner paying taxes on it. Whether or not the owner deems the land "productive" has no bearing on this fact.
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s/all/most/
I realise that there are some exceptions to this relating to things like easements that may technically be privately owned, but these are cases wherein the state—not the owner—determines that the land is in some way productive in the public interest, and so I think the point stands.
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LIRR costs $226/month from Jamaica to Penn Station, then another $121/month to ride the subway/bus from Penn Station.
At a $15 per hour minimum wage (when it arrives) that works out to 14 percent of gross wages.
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If you can't find a minimum wage job within 40 minutes walk of Penn Station you've got serious problems.
So that's a third of the travel cost saved already.
What, walk? In America? Yes.
Re:The money ... (Score:4, Insightful)
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The tighter your grip... (Score:3, Insightful)
... the more slip between your fingers.
The city is fighting services that offer a means for people to get where they want to go at a price that they are willing to pay. So, what exactly is the problem?
I hate the whole concept of a minimum wage. The minimum wage has been and always will be zero dollars. No law will change that.
Let's say I start a volunteer ferrying service. I post my phone number and website so people can find it, and I say I'll carry you door to door in the city. I offer to carry people in my car for nothing, but if they offer me a "tip" then I'm not going to refuse. If people ask for what kind of "tip" I expect then I'll give a quick estimate of my time, fuel, wear on the vehicle, and some "buffer" above that to make it worth my time.
I basically just described how Uber and Lyft got started, as ride share programs to reduce congestion and share on the costs of the ride. Both have evolved into a kind of taxi service once people figured out that they could make a small but not insignificant income by volunteering to take people where they wanted to go. It might be below minimum wage if the hours are calculated but then it's better than making nothing at all.
Go ahead New York, go and regulate these services. All that means is another one will come in to take their place. They might structure their business plan to avoid the rules, or simply ignore them because enforcement is impossible. You want to tell people that they can't drive a friend to the airport? Good luck with that.
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If they're competing with public transit or walking, they're actually CREATING more congestion. The only time they reduce congestion is if they're competing with private cars, assuming they don't ever drive around empty looking for their next fare.
I suspect at least some Uber/Lyft trips replace walking or the subway, both of which don't congest the roads.
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Technically that's already happened in the UK.
The road usage charges take the form of fuel duties and taxes, which also mean that people with more expensive cars (which tend to be the ones with the bigger engines) tend to pay the most.
Unless they own an electric car, in which case the Government takes pity on them.
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hahaha, good luck with that. offer to carry for nothing and the lowlifes of society will use you and pay you nothing. maybe shitting and pissing in your vehicle or slitting your throat while they're at it.
Re:The tighter your grip... (Score:5, Insightful)
And be identically regulated, because these regulations are not specific to Lyft and Uber.
Enforcement is quite possible. Summon driver through the app. Ticket driver. Enough tickets, impound vehicle. Heck, ticket the service that sent the request to the driver while you're at it. Hard to be anonymous publishing an app. Hard to run a service like this without an app.
Because that is what is happening. I remember just last week when I wrote an app so that my friend could ask me for a ride to the airport... Oh wait... they call or text me, specifically.
Ah yes, I see. You're a denizen of libertarian fantasyland. I'll be moving on now...
Typical demagoguery solution (Score:2)
Typical demagoguery solution by a leftist mayor. That's all there is to it. Between libertarian imbeciles on the right and corrupt demagogues on the left there is no one left to actually make thoughtful working government regulation that actually works for the common good, not only for corporations or for politicians elected by degenerate voters.
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Good... (Score:4, Informative)
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NYC's street network is narrow by US standards and can't handle unlimited traffic. Rebuilding it would be insanely expensive.
Of course, the market can fix it -- if traffic slows to a sufficient crawl, people won't want to use Uber/Lyft/cabs and fewer people will be interested in driving. But traffic slowing to a crawl has other negative consequences like fire and ambulances being unable to get through and added pollution (99% of for-hire vehicles aren't electric).
The market solution is over priced taxi medalions (Score:2)
The rational solution is congestion pricing; you want to drive in Manhattan, you pay the government a lot of money. This means that the government gets the excess revenue, not the vultures who own taxi medallions - perhaps the most iniquitous thing I've ever seen in economics; I really thought it was an April Fools joke when I first heard about them.
The real minimum wage is zero (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how all of the drivers no longer able to drive because of the car cap will feel about being paid more per hour for driving 0 hours.
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because they can't do something else for a living where they by law must be paid minimum wage or above?
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If they had something else to do, they would probably be doing it
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Which goes to show the capitalist system is completely flawed. It forces people in labouring in jobs they don't want! Much better to introduce socialism
You can't introduce socialism in America, because all government which does things for people is socialist. You could increase (or decrease) socialism, though. HTH, HAND!
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People argued that in Seattle too, but in the end there were more jobs paying better wages.
Reality has a bias towards reality, not myth.
Wrong as usual (Score:5, Insightful)
You are a very confused man, because I am talking about the fact that NYC has specifically eliminated driving jobs, not arguing about the minimum wage per se (though actually you are also wrong there [seattletimes.com]).
Reality has a bias towards reality, not myth.
It sure does, which is why I post about reality, not the mythical fairyland your mind inhabits. I mean if you can't even distinguish between an abstract concept like minimum wage and a specific cap on a class of jobs - how can you seriously claim to be grounded in reality?
I'll let you have the last response as I can only do so much to try and introduce the deluded to reality, and I have given you as much help as is warranted. The rest is up to you, good luck!
Not staying in Manhattan if I can help it (Score:4, Insightful)
The last time I stayed in Manhattan, the Doubletree cost $700/night. The customer paid for that, but it felt wasteful. Since they banned Air B&B and similar, we're not staying in New York city for personal trips. I'd much rather help a local person keep their home than stay in the impersonal people box of some corporation.
In Manhattan, I'll usually take the subway if it's at all possible. But limiting rideshare in the name of the long-obsolete medallion cab system - which promotes cruising around looking for a customer, using up fuel and making pollution for nothing; that can't be a plus.
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Re:Not staying in Manhattan if I can help it (Score:4, Interesting)
Why do we need government action? (Score:2)
Uber allows tipping — and there is no limit. Whoever feels the drivers are underpaid can pay them extra. No need to compel the rest of us to do the same, whether we agree with it or not. No one goes to work for Uber against their will, and they are all independent contractors — as, by the way, are the small-time taxi-medallion owners and leasers.
Unless, of course, this telling others what to do is how you get off — and the reason you went to work for the government...
Vahicle cap implementation (Score:2)
Cap and minimum wage? One should be enough... (Score:2)
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I think you may be a little high.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rats_in_New_York_City [wikipedia.org]
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Ah, but he didn't mention New York. Rural locations might have more wildlife.
https://www.google.com/maps/pl... [google.com]
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fuckin NYC, the asshole of America, just gaping wide
That's not the issue here. The issue seems to be that the taxi lobby finally got politicians to put the smack down on their competition. Are there really cars that are dedicated to uber? Every time I've gotten a ride it's been some guy who was just earning some extra cash while he wasn't working his real job. The issue here seems to be that someone wants to turn an easy way to make a few extra bucks into a full time job.
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In NYC to drive for uber you must already be a licensed private driver (different from a taxi, you can't pick up a hail as a private driver). So no, nobody driving for uber in nyc is someone getting some extra money in their spare time.
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