Seattle Airport Employee Steals Airplane, Crashes It Into the Ground (latimes.com) 148
An anonymous reader quotes the Los Angeles Times:
An airline worker stole an empty Alaska Airlines plane from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in Washington on Friday night, and the National Guard scrambled two fighter jets to chase the aircraft, which crashed on a sparsely populated island in Puget Sound, officials said. No passengers were aboard the 76-seat Horizon Air Q400 turboprop plane, which was stolen by a 29-year-old Horizon Air ground service agent from Pierce County, according to airline and law enforcement officials.... The man was described as suicidal, and it appeared impossible that he could have survived the crash....
The plane made an unauthorized takeoff from the airport around 8 p.m. and crashed on Ketron Island, about five miles southwest of Tacoma, after the renegade pilot bantered erratically with air-traffic controllers who pleaded with him to land the plane, according to officials and dispatch audio. "This is probably jail time for life, huh?" said the man, identified on the radio as Rich, according to dispatch audio reviewed by the Seattle Times.... At another point, the employee said: "I'm gonna land it, in a safe kind of manner. I think I'm gonna try to do a barrel roll, and if that goes good, I'm just gonna nose down and call it a night...."
"Oh, my God! Oh, my God! He's OK? He's OK," one woman said in a video posted on Facebook, which showed at least one military jet in pursuit. It's not clear how long afterward the plane crashed.
The plane made an unauthorized takeoff from the airport around 8 p.m. and crashed on Ketron Island, about five miles southwest of Tacoma, after the renegade pilot bantered erratically with air-traffic controllers who pleaded with him to land the plane, according to officials and dispatch audio. "This is probably jail time for life, huh?" said the man, identified on the radio as Rich, according to dispatch audio reviewed by the Seattle Times.... At another point, the employee said: "I'm gonna land it, in a safe kind of manner. I think I'm gonna try to do a barrel roll, and if that goes good, I'm just gonna nose down and call it a night...."
"Oh, my God! Oh, my God! He's OK? He's OK," one woman said in a video posted on Facebook, which showed at least one military jet in pursuit. It's not clear how long afterward the plane crashed.
Jackass (Score:3, Interesting)
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Thanks for the psych eval, doctor.
Re:Jackass (Score:5, Insightful)
Endanger a whole lot of other people just because you are having issues.
Give the guy a break. At least he used an empty plane. Better than EgyptAir 990 [wikipedia.org], or Malaysia 370 [wikipedia.org]. Those guys took hundreds of innocent lives.
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And Germanwings Flight 9525
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A most masshooting sprees in the US.
But not the mass shooting sprees in other countries? Not the Assad regime in Syria? Why do you apologize for some psychopaths but not others?
Re:Jackass (Score:4, Informative)
Citation needed.
Seems to me that most any murder-suicide by plane would have a higher body count than even the deadliest murder-suicide by firearms. While we're at it we can compare this to murder-suicide by bombs, cars, poison gas, or whatever else the insane have come up with.
Seems to me that the lesson here is we should be looking to put criminals in prisons and the insane in mental hospitals instead of trying to bubblewrap the world.
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But then little Johnny might actually have to learn about the real world.
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Citation needed.
Seems to me that most any murder-suicide by plane would have a higher body count than even the deadliest murder-suicide by firearms. While we're at it we can compare this to murder-suicide by bombs, cars, poison gas, or whatever else the insane have come up with.
Seems to me that the lesson here is we should be looking to put criminals in prisons and the insane in mental hospitals instead of trying to bubblewrap the world.
If we're comparing murder by firearms to murder by hijacking, bombs, vehicular murder, poison gas or whatever else, I'm assuming we're weighting it for degree of difficulty in obtaining said weapon.
As for cars, we've seen here in the UK first hand just how few bodies that produces, you see cars are designed to stop functioning when damaged, so that limits their effectiveness as a weapon.
Bombs are almost as ineffective as they need to be produced properly. Now that sounds easy but a lot of bombing atte
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It was fine, he had done it tons of times in video games. GTA Saved you.
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It was worth it for the videos. Audio stream is a hoot too. If you're going to go out, go out with a bang and leave a crater!
Blue skies and tailwinds forever my captain!
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Wow, why is that so evil, typical modern corporate executives do it all of the time for fun and profit and leave a trail of pain, suffering and death and get celebrated for it. Oh I see the difference, they generated a profit for themselves doing it, so that makes it 'A' OK.
Bad Aiming (Score:2)
I guess he missed the tower!
Re: Next step (Score:2)
So the plane could drop out of the sky?
How about a device to limit who can start a plane on the ground, you know, like an ignition key?
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Forcing an ignition key system is not that hard either - car thieves do it all the time.
The phrase belt and suspenders comes to mind. Another is defense in depth.
You don't add a layer just for fun, but if the layer adds a significant amount of protection then maybe it is worth it.
Re: Next step (Score:3)
And it only took what, 50-75 years for someone to steal a large commercial plane?
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Whoever thought that "large planes don't need ignition keys because no one would ever attempt to steal one"
Nobody ever thought that.
How about: Personnel who are authorized to enter the secure maintenance area where the plane is being worked on, rarely try to steal the airplane.
Last time someone did this it was the co-pilot of MH-370, who killed everyone on the fully loaded plane, which has still never even been recovered and nobody knows where it crashed (well, they're pretty sure which OCEAN it's in....)
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It seems like you could create a pretty safe system that is default mechanically open but which can be engaged to lock off the system. Make it only physically able to function while the gear is down, too.
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'Make it only physically able to function while the gear is down, too.'
So it (engine locked) can be engaged during take-off, approach, and landing; what could possibly go wrong?
(And weight on wheels is no better.)
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(And weight on wheels is no better.)
Okay, weight on wheels, plus wheels not moving.
Re: Next step (Score:4, Interesting)
It's no grand challenge -- don't let these swine tell you otherwise -- to build a functional interlock system for starting, flying, and landing airplanes.
"Hurr-durr it's gonna fall out of the skyyyyyyy!" just means they haven't thought long enough about the problem.
My question is: Do you think it would actually help? Surely, some echelon of non-pilot (such as perhaps this very maintenance guy from TFA) will be issued credentials that allow them to operate all systems of the aircraft otherwise maintenance would be impossible. And just as surely, such systems can be disabled.
My BMW, for 1995, has a reasonably-robust mechanical keying system and multiple anti-theft systems including RF keys to start and user-set numeric codes, pick-resistant ignition tumbler, and so on. But none of this stops a would-be thief from smashing a window, opening the hood, replacing the DME with one that lacks these electronic functions (available everywhere, because race cars are things). Bypassing the steering lock is as simple as drilling a hole in just the right spot in the magnesium housing for the steering column right behind the steering wheel (easy -- I got it on the first try in a dark parking lot with a pictures on a cell phone as a guide and drew zero attention) which lets the locking parts fall out.
The rest is just hotwiring it exactly like a car from the 1950s, and all of the right connections are there at the ignition switch to do that.
My car is old in car years, but it isn't all that old in airplane years.
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On some aircraft the wheels begin to rotate before they touch the ground.
Re: Next step (Score:4, Interesting)
Between 1983 and 2003 there were 36 suicides by aircraft [wikipedia.org] in the United States. All of them were by pilots who would have had access to any "ignition key". Most likely this ground crew guy would have also had access to the key. It is not like the key would be kept in an underground safe with an armed guard. Most likely the pilot would hand it off to the ground crew as they exit the plane.
Sooner or later an incident would happen, such as an emergency landing crashing into a parked plane that couldn't be moved in time because the key was unavailable. Then the FAA would require a spare key to be kept in the cockpit (maybe in the glove compartment?) for "safety".
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Bill. There is no key.
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Keyswitch is less reliable than a regular mechanical switch.
Even if that was true you could use a locking cover [newjerseyt...supply.com] with keys, code, RFID or whatever. I've heard the same excuse with military equipment and there I can kinda understand that you need to go NOW NOW NOW and there's no time to fiddle with keys. Not so much for civilian airplanes...
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We should not over react to a single one-off incident.
People tend to focus on things that are in the news, and ignore far more common problems. America has about 120 suicides per day. Some of those harm other people, such as "suicide by car crash". These happen everyday, not once per century.
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Just a few days ago somebody killed themselves around here by jumping off a freeway overpass onto the freeway below. We've also had to install fencing along the Aurora Bridge because it was a popular place for people to jump off.
Beyond just the suicide itself and the impact it has on friends and family, it causes a ton of damage to the people who have to clean up afterwards as well as people that see it. Not to mention the people that wind up running over somebody that just moments earlier jumped off a brid
Re: Next step (Score:4, Insightful)
There's also the easy access to things like firearms that can be both fast and effective at suicide which we can't do much about because the 2nd amendment people don't give a crap about how many people are killed by their firearms as long as they can have their dick compensator.
So, you get done explaining how resourceful people are at finding ways to kill themselves (and, by explaining that guns are "fast," seem to be implying that getting crushed on the pavement of the freeway after a jump isn't?), and then suggest that people who want to retain the right to defend themselves are responsible for the behavior of people who want to kill themselves? Even if you were willing to amend the constitution and take away everyone's right to self defense (though of course, not take away millions of guns in the possession of criminals who don't care what you think), do you really think that would stop the thousands of drownings, hangings, wrist-slittings, ODs, jumps, asphyxiations, and all the rest, rather than actually INCREASE the number of those things?
Meanwhile, in a vain attempt to control people's agonized decisions to end their lives by controlling objects (but only for law-abiding people, the overwhelming majority of which never hurt themselves or anyone else with a gun), you're willing to prevent, say, my 5'2" wife from being able to defend herself because you think "those 2nd amendment people" (who are actually, you know, "Bill of Rights people). Such defensive uses of personal firearms occur hundreds of thousands of times every year, preventing and stopping violent crime. But you'd like to take away that means of self defense, and gamble on people bent on ending their own lives suddenly becoming less resourceful than they've been for all of human history. No, your actual agenda has nothing to do with suicide. Just be honest about it.
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> No where in the constitution nor in any of the amendments is there a right to individual gun ownership specified.
BZZZT. Thanks for playing.
The right is explicit, implicit, AND intrinsic.
1. Explicit: What part of 2nd Amendment [wikipedia.org] do you not know how to fucking read???
Furthermore,
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You claim that the second amendment specifically states the right to bear arms is for use in a militia.
No it doesn't, it uses the necessity of a militia as a reason justify why the people (not "the militia") have the right to bear arms. Take the following hypothetical statement:
"Proper sanitation, being necessary to the preparation of healthy food, the right of the people to wash their hands, shall not be infringed."
Would you interpret that statement to say that only people who prepare food are allowed to w
Second amendment (Score:2)
"Proper sanitation, being necessary to the preparation of healthy food, the right of the people to wash their hands, shall not be infringed."
I'd say that the use of commas in that sentence makes it gibberish, just like in the second amendment. I cannot parse that sentence in a way that is grammatically correct, which means that I have to guess what the author probably meant, based on what I know about him and his background.
Disclaimer: I'm not from the US, nor a native speaker of English.
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"Proper sanitation, being necessary to the preparation of healthy food, the right of the people to wash their hands, shall not be infringed."
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And on your last point, that's a complete load of crap. Situations where firearms are used in self-defense or to prevent crime are rare. They're at least an order of magnitude less common than suicides
You know you're wrong, and deliberately getting the "order of magnitude" thing precisely backwards. We have, what ... well under 20,000 suicides that way per year? Gary Kleck's academic research into the matter found defensive personal gun use occurring over 2 million time per year. A separate CDC study essentially duplicated his results. But let's say they're off by a whopping 90%, and people defend their lives with guns only a tenth as often as the CDC's study says actually happens. That's over 200,000 t
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Re: Next step (Score:4, Informative)
Let's look at the facts:
1. In America, suicides are twice as common as homicides.
2. Only 10% of people that survive a suicide attempt go on to successfully kill themselves in later attempts.
3. Women are more likely to attempt suicide, but men are more likely to succeed (in America, 3 dead men for every woman). China is the only country in the world where the female suicide death rate exceeds the male rate.
3. Guns are not the most common method for attempting suicide. But in America they are the most common method of successful suicides. Drug overdose is the most common method, but is only successful 3% of the time. Gun suicides are successful 85% of the time.
4. Gun owning households have significantly higher suicide rates.
5. Gun suicides, in particular, tend to be "on impulse" rather than planned.
6. The TYPE of gun matters. Handguns are used in suicides much more often than either rifles or shotguns.
It is unlikely that people using guns to kill themselves would have done so successfully with a different method, since other methods require more planning and preparation, and have much higher failure rates.
If you choose to keep a gun in your home, you should choose a rifle or shotgun (I own one of each), not a handgun. Keep it locked.
Guns and suicide [harvard.edu]
Guns, suicide, and public policy [nih.gov]
List of countries by suicide rate [wikipedia.org]
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There was that time I was feeling down and worthless and all I had was a WW2 Lee Enfield. Huge bloody thing. My arms aren't that long and my toes are too fat to fit in the trigger guard, so I started rigging up a contraption with bootlaces, meccano, a grandfather clock and all that.
I got halfway through and thought, "you know, if you have the ingenuity to do that maybe you aren't so dumb - you should give it another go."
I de
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If you choose to keep a gun in your home, you should choose a rifle or shotgun (I own one of each), not a handgun. Keep it locked.
I'm with you up to the "keep it locked" bit...keeping it locked up slows your access to it, and that delay could be critical or even fatal.
Rifles and pistols can be a real problem when used for home defense- they have waaaaaay too much penetrating power and even if you hit Mr Bad Guy with a perfect shot, there's a very good chance that the round will go right through him and end up in your nieghbor's house, and possibly inside your neighbor. Not a big deal out in the country but in the suburbs or a city...
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I'm with you up to the "keep it locked" bit...keeping it locked up slows your access to it, and that delay could be critical or even fatal.
Statistically, your gun is WAY more likely to be used by a family member, either shooting another family member, or even more likely shooting themselves. You can make your own decision for your situation, but for most people, locking is better.
A shotgun is probably the best choice in home defense weapons for most folks.
Totally agree. If we had a lot more shotguns, and a lot fewer handguns, many lives could be saved. But keep in mind that shotgun shells have a shorter shelf life than rifle and pistol ammo, especially in high humidity. Replace your shells at least once a year.
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Yeah I'd hate for someone who isn't me to break into my home and commit suicide with my gun. FFS pal not everyone is suicidal.
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4. Gun owning households have significantly higher suicide rates.
Gun owners tend to be white, male, and middle aged. Most suicides are committed by... that's right, white middle aged men. How about we look into why white middle aged men men decide to kill themselves instead of using some correlation is causation bullshit excuse to disarm people?
Restrictions on gun ownership won't solve the mental health problems we have. We've seen this attempted in other nations, like UK, Canada, and Australia. They didn't see a reduction in suicides, only a reduction in the use of
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5. Gun suicides, in particular, tend to be "on impulse" rather than planned.
I think #5 explains that. If they didn't have the gun they would be more likely to back out or at the very least, be far less successful.
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I doubt "his" agenda has to do with suicide too. It is fear that drives those types of decisions. Once the "fear" is allayed, critical thinking stops because, hey, the problem that aroused fear is dealt with. No more thought necessary, everything is taken care of... but its not. That is why the "no guns, no violence" people piss me off so much. Not that anyone cares what I think.
Have a nice day. :)
Re: Next step (Score:2)
90 minutes (Score:4, Informative)
Reports say he was airborne for 90 minutes, performing 'stunts' before he went 'nose down'. A friend hear the radio chatter from the 'pilot' in real-time before he took his life.
News 'analysts' are already wondering why the two fighter jets didn't shoot down the stolen craft, which points out the limits of their understanding - firing missiles in a residential area to destroy a plane so debris can rain down is typically considered a bad idea, better to observe and be prepared to take action if it looks like he was going to hurt others.
I can't wait to hear we need to regulate who can buy flight simulator software to spare further 'copy-cat' tragedies!
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Re:90 minutes (Score:5, Informative)
They could have used their guns, not missiles (AFAIK, F15 still has a Gatling gun).
Bullets and fragments will still fall out of the sky. A round that pierces the aircraft (and MANY will) will travel miles before striking the ground, people, houses, etc. Incredibly dangerous to do so.
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They could have used their guns, not missiles (AFAIK, F15 still has a Gatling gun).
Bullets and fragments will still fall out of the sky. A round that pierces the aircraft (and MANY will) will travel miles before striking the ground, people, houses, etc. Incredibly dangerous to do so.
Not to mention a huge flaming aircraft wreck falling out of control.
Most AA missiles are not designed to destroy the aircraft, especially not disintegrate it in a huge fireball leaving no debris... That's just a waste and makes the missile more complex than it needs to be. Most AA missiles are designed to cause enough damage that the aircraft loses control and crashes, most notably on the control surfaces. An AIM-9 Sidewinder is effectively a fragmentation grenade on a guided rocket, high speed fragments
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Re: 90 minutes (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: 90 minutes (Score:1)
200 miles is not very far away for an F15.
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No, it doesn't. It does however, have a 20mm Vulcan autocannon.
Re:90 minutes (Score:5, Informative)
The M61 Vulcan IS a Gatling:
The M61 Vulcan is a hydraulically or pneumatically driven, six-barrel, air-cooled, electrically fired Gatling-style rotary cannon
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
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This wasn't a densely populated residential area. If you looked at the videos, the airplane was mostly flying over the bay or very sparsely populated areas.
Waste of a good plane... (Score:2)
Q400 is one of the few planes used by US airlines that is tolerable to fly on. Sadly, they've mostly been phased out on Northeastern flights in the US, though they still do NYC-Toronto-Montreal service.
In all seriousness, glad no one other than the idiot who stole the plane was hurt. I'm surprised he was allowed to take off -- tower must have notices unauthorized movements. Could they have sent a fire truck or two to block it, or would that just have made the situation more dangerous?
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All things considered this situation ended pretty well. No one on the ground was hurt and the guy got what he wanted in his final moments.
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To downtown Seattle, no. To Hanford, yes. But it didn't happen that way. He went South. So much for your what-if worries.
Re:Waste of a good plane... (Score:4, Informative)
Probably not. They scrambled F-15s out of Portland (don't know if they have anything closer at JBLM or Whidbey). Optimistically, they got on scene in 5 minutes. Some pilots are saying more like 10. People along I-5 would probably have heard sonic booms. But Seattle is closer than 5 minutes flying time from SeaTac for a commuter plane.
Hanford is much further. But this guy was having low fuel issues, so he probably would never have made Hanford regardless.
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'So what are you selling?'
(Magic) sea salt, of course.
The most important question (Score:2)
Did he have nail clippers in his pocket?
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"Last Friday Night", singit! (Score:1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: Not a muslim nor illegal immigrant (Score:2)
Suicide is not a terrorist act, why are you trying to act like it is?
He went for a thrill ride before taking his own life in a dramatic fashion. I eagerly await the MSM telling us what station his car radio was tuned to, what websites he visited, and other such important information.
That's his problem right there... (Score:1)
Religion causes poor thinking, and removes critical thinking skills.
Explains this nicely.
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Religion causes poor thinking, and removes critical thinking skills.
I'm an avid consumer of several podcasts. A couple of which are atheist and a few others are religious. Each one at one time talked of the utility of religion, specifically the Jewish and Christian tradition. They all said roughly the same thing, even if there is not a god there is utility in believing in a god for the sake of a productive society. Many intelligent people can through study, thought experiment, and other means, find what works for a peaceful and prosperous society. Some of the rules are
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He has a plan for all of us and yesterday was this guy's time to go.
Let us hope you are correct. The current state of the world is making more otherwise sane individuals take their own lives. Indeed we all need to become more gracious if we are to find peace and sanity in this God forsaken time. Suicide is not painless, in as much that it is a sin that harms deeply those who love you.
PS: it is a misnomer that GOD is a man, the real GOD IS ANDROGYNOUS and without sex organs or the need for them. As indeed is real love.
God HAS another Angle (Score:1)
Ever hear of Satan?
Why did you elect him to the White House?
I never thought Christianity was PRO SAtan; now I guess we know. :(
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Airplane Repo (Score:2)
I loved that show!
Eerie audio clip (Score:2)
Liberal terrorists (Score:2)
Another Liberal off their "meds". Legalize more drugs, surely that will help! SMH
Donnie, is that you? (Score:3)
Are you off your meds again?
Go find Melania, she has your pills.
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The US National Guard has better fighter planes than most of the world's air forces. Why does a National Guard need F15s?
I don't know, maybe in case some suicidal asshole decides to hijack a plane and threaten to crash it?
Are they planning on taking on the US Air Force or is it somewhere that USAF planes go to retire?
A bit of both, at least in theory. The National Guard is a dual role service. The first role is as a state defense force, to combat threats "both foreign and domestic". One can assume this means having to go up against the federal forces if things break down that far. The second role the National Guard serves is that as a reserve force for the regular forces. The National Guard does get a lot of second
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The Air National Guard receives airplanes that are passed down by the USAF. Since the USAF has been getting F-22's they have had F-15's to pass down. There is actually a concern right now that with the Air Force getting so many F-22's there will be a gap in available aircraft for the USAF to pass down for a number of years as the F-22's are expected to have a long service life.