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Emails While Commuting 'Should Count as Work', Researchers Say (bbc.com) 130

Posted by msmash from the modern-world-work-life-tussle dept.
Commuters are so regularly using travel time for work emails that their journeys should be counted as part of the working day, researchers say. From a report: Wider access to wi-fi on trains and the spread of mobile phones has extended the working day, a study from the University of the West of England says. The study examined 5,000 rail passengers on commuter routes into London as wi-fi became more available. "I am a busy mum and I rely on that time," one commuter told researchers. The study, to be presented at the Royal Geographical Society on Thursday, found that 54% of commuters using the train's wi-fi were sending work emails. Others were using their own mobile phone connections for work emails.
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Emails While Commuting 'Should Count as Work', Researchers Say More

Emails While Commuting 'Should Count as Work', Researchers Say

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  • Who cares what researchers say. What counts as work to a company is whatever the company says counts.

    Do researches want to subtract time on slashdot during work?

    • Re:Researchers Say! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:20AM (#57224532)

      The research results boils down to establishing that "work" is work. Great conclusion indeed.

      Research time would be better spent trying to establish why employees would want to work while commuting knowing they won't be compensated for that.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Because if they don't, the person sitting next to them that is working will have their job.

      • Research time would be better spent trying to establish why employees would want to work while commuting knowing they won't be compensated for that.

        One hypothesis to check in this research is whether 1. unpaid work during the commute increases the likelihood of promotion or even retention, and 2. employees perceive their situation as such.

      • Research time would be better spent trying to establish why employees would want to work while commuting knowing they won't be compensated for that.

        Here's my hypothesis: Wage increases and job security.

        One worker checks her email during commutes, and shows up at work fully informed about any new problems and ready to jump in and help. The other shows up and spends 30 minutes catching up on email, or making dumb suggestions that have already been discussed.

        Guess which one gets the raise. Guess who gets laid off when business is slow.

        • Guess whose laptop curiously stops working before the next meeting.

          Snitches and suck-ups don't last long.

        • Cynical answer... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:49AM (#57224754)

          Here's my hypothesis: Wage increases and job security.

          An old axiom about why buy the cow when you get the milf for free comes to mind...

          Guess which one gets the raise. Guess who gets laid off when business is slow.

          My guess would be neither and both respectively.

          • I am not judging, but telephone autocorrect often automatically inserts words as substitutions when the author is more likely to use that word. This is why people who are fond of iPhones often complain when they try Android and vise verse as the phone has not learned their typing habits yet.

            I would imagine that you may have intended to write milk?

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by sjbe ( 173966 )

              I would imagine that you may have intended to write milk?

              Actually no. I thought it would be funnier as written and I don't have autocorrect. Good eye catching the joke though.

          • An old axiom about why buy the cow when you get the milf for free comes to mind...

            Sure, but if you go to a dairy farm, the cows that get culled aren't the good producers.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by cyn1c77 ( 928549 )

            Here's my hypothesis: Wage increases and job security.

            An old axiom about why buy the cow when you get the milf for free comes to mind...

            Guess which one gets the raise. Guess who gets laid off when business is slow.

            My guess would be neither and both respectively.

            Wait, how do you get MILFs for free? We really want to know!

        • Guess which one gets the raise. Guess who gets laid off when business is slow.

          As much as I detest that, you are absolutely correct here.
          The way American business is setup, employees are expected to(and some want to) constantly pay attention to their email.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by mark-t ( 151149 )
        How about the possibility of just wanting to put your best foot forward and not ignore the possibility that getting even that half hour jump start on the work day while you are waiting for your commute to be over, when you are otherwise entirely unproductive anyways, can help to make the rest of the day a little bit stressful?

      • When I work while commuting, I get compensated for that.
        Why would I not?

      • Research time would be better spent trying to establish why employees would want to work while commuting knowing they won't be compensated for that.

        The way I see it when I'm a salaried employee that means that I get paid to do a job regardless of when or how I accomplish that job. I am being compensated for that work, we just don't track the exact number of hours spent doing it. I am expected to be in the office for approximately 40 hours but nobody's counting.

        I know there are companies that will work people 70+ hours a week but that's as much on the employee as it is on the employer. I've made it clear that if they expect me to work outside normal off

    • That should be, what counts as work according to federal labor law counts as work for the company. These sorts of things can get messy with non-exempt staff.
      • I wish I could mod the first link in TFS as offtopic. The rest is about a study in England, by an English University. The first link is some combination of narcissistic and masturbatory.
        tl;dr
        The study isn't about Americans.* That Americans also waste time commuting, and not getting compensated for work done, is tangential.

        *Unless they happen to be Americans abroad that commute on lines into London, England, regularly.

    • Re:Researchers Say! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:45AM (#57224720)

      When I work, you pay me for it. When you consider it work that I read emails, you pay me for it. You don't pay me when I commute, I won't read emails when I commute.

      It is actually that simple.

      • Re:Researchers Say! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Mr D from 63 ( 3395377 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @10:03AM (#57224854)

        When I work, you pay me for it. When you consider it work that I read emails, you pay me for it. You don't pay me when I commute, I won't read emails when I commute.

        It is actually that simple.

        My work and off work life are so mixed I don't even care. I'll gladly answer some emails off hours, I leave early if I need, work from home if I need, run errands during the workday, etc. It allows me to better manage all my time. I realize not everyone is in a similar situation.

        • Agreed. And I also charge in 15 minute increments. But I'm a contractor.

          • Agreed. And I also charge in 15 minute increments. But I'm a contractor.

            My rules are; - get my work done - be available when needed. - put in my hours

        • I'm the same way. I don't mind answering emails from home because it usually means that I'll have less time spent in the office or more time to socialize at the office.

          It balances out.

      • A lot of people are salary exempt and get paid a fixed amount every week, whether they work 20 hours that week, or 60. There isn't always a direct connection between 1 hour of work = 1 hour of pay.

        • There is still an amount of time you pay me for. That amount of time you get. You want more, you pay more.

    • If I dream about a problem and awake with the solution (or even if I awake without one) then I was literally ... not figuratively ... working in my sleep.

      • If I dream about a problem and awake with the solution (or even if I awake without one) then I was literally ... not figuratively ... working in my sleep.

        And your bosses are going to wonder what going from bathroom to bathroom trying to find a toilet that isn't exposed to the world and overflowing; or being at school naked and with an inability to remember your class schedule after missing most of the semester has to do with your solution. :)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      In Europe there are a number of laws covering working time. Limits on working time (basically 48 hours a week maximum for most people), requirements for break times, holiday entitlement, and more general stuff about how employees can be treated while outside work.

      This is designed not only to protect people from abuse and harm, but also to prevent a race to the bottom.

    • Yep, I've done this when I was commuting by train, which took over an hour each way. My boss was fine with letting me count that as part of my day. The problem I had was that I would often take care of all my administration work; emails, bug tracking notes, etc. is less time then I had on the train.

      Another interesting thing I realized is that I was way more stressed about getting to the train on time. If there was a small delay in traffic from my home to the train station I could miss the train and would th

  • Ok, emails on the train are work, now what? (Score:3)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:03AM (#57224378)
    Since knowledge workers are generally exempt employees (outside of contractors) then they're not going to be paid overtime for their emails.

    • Since knowledge workers are generally exempt employees (outside of contractors) then they're not going to be paid overtime for their emails.

      Everyone has email today, not just "knowledge workers". I can email the shipping and receiving crew in the warehouse, and the janitor who empties the trashcan in my office. These are hourly workers.

      They don't get paid for their commute time, but they do get paid for their smoke breaks, so it likely evens out.

      I get some of my best engineering ideas while soaking in my hot tub.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Since knowledge workers are generally exempt employees (outside of contractors) then they're not going to be paid overtime for their emails.

      This means they can leave the office early though, Or arrive late - so as to offset their increase in time from commute e-mails with a reduction in office time --- and still legitimately say they've worked 40 or more hours each week, therefore: no PTO subtractions.

    • What do you mean exempt employees??
       
        Anyhow, I fill out my own timesheet, so I get paid for the actual work I do, regardless of where or when I do it. Regarding only office-time as work is as archaic as it is idiotic. I also count when I work in the evening from home, naturally, why would the train be any different?
       
      People should honestly worry more about sending any sort of even marginally sensitive data using a train's open wifi.

      • Exempt from overtime pay.

      • What do you mean exempt employees??

        Exempt vs non-exempt [flsa.com]

        It is an American term, defined in American law. If you are not an American, there is no need to understand the terms. If you are an American, you certainly should. It means a job is exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Managerial jobs and most salaried jobs are exempt. Non-exempt workers are mostly those paid an hourly wage.

        There are some quirks. Agricultural workers are neither exempt nor non-exempt, nor do minimum wage laws apply to them. This was designed to exclud

    • Since knowledge workers are generally exempt employees

      No such exemption applies in the UK.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      In which case the company would either have to tell them not to answer emails outside of work time or accept that regular overtime rules come in to play (which affect holiday entitlement, working time regs and various other things).

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Why wouldn't it be counted as work? (Score:5, Funny)

    by dfn5 ( 524972 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:08AM (#57224426) Journal
    But more importantly, what difference does it make? Who gets paid for every hour of work worked? So it means I work 70 hours in a week instead of 60. I'm still only getting paid for 40.

    • Re:Why wouldn't it be counted as work? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jzanu ( 668651 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:16AM (#57224500)
      For some context [www.gov.uk], UK labor law limits weekly work to 48 hours total. If commuting while performing measurable and exclusively work focused activity is by policy made work hours due to employer pressures, then it reduces the legal amount remaining. Largely this is a youth protective measure, and you could opt out if an adult able to buy your own alcohol, etc. it must be entirely voluntary (not condition of being hired) and there are also occupational restrictions that enforce it as a rigid limit. Those jobs include "airline staff a worker on ships or boats a worker in the road transport industry, eg delivery drivers (except for drivers of vehicles under 3.5 tonnes using GB Domestic drivers’ hours rules) other staff who travel in and operate vehicles covered by EU rules on drivers’ hours, eg bus conductors a security guard on a vehicle carrying high-value goods"

    • This is why we have a recession.

    • Re:Why wouldn't it be counted as work? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Computershack ( 1143409 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @10:09AM (#57224898)

      But more importantly, what difference does it make? Who gets paid for every hour of work worked? So it means I work 70 hours in a week instead of 60. I'm still only getting paid for 40.

      Me. Not only do I get paid for every hour I work I also get paid for the mandatory 45 minute rest breaks I must take during my shift. I'm a truck driver in the UK. So currently I get paid 50hrs for doing 46.25hrs and I also get 28 days annual paid leave too. The joys of not living in a country which has shitty workers rights.

  • Most of what we do at jobs is make-work or wasted work. Send people home to get self-actualized instead.

  • Duh (Score:2)

    by reanjr ( 588767 )

    Who doesn't do this? If you spend two hours on the train working, you spend 6 at work. It's always been like that, even before email and wifi.

  • found that 54% of commuters using the train's wi-fi were sending work emails

    So in other words, they're reading all your private emails. The price of "free"...

    • What can the train's Wi-Fi see in an IMAP or SMTP connection past the STARTTLS?

    • You don't really belong on Slashdot.

    • Or the simpler answer: they just asked them what they were doing.

      From a different article [cnbc.com]:

      "Researchers at the University of the West of England (UWE) set out to examine the impact of free Wi-Fi on commuter trains.
      They surveyed 5,000 rail passengers traveling on Chiltern Railways trains on two major London routes — from/to Birmingham and Aylesbury — over a 40-week period in 2016 and 2017."

  • *satire* So if I get a ticket for Texting while Driving do I submit the ticket to my employer to pick up the cost of the ticket?

    • Re:Texting while Driving in my State is Illegal (Score:5, Informative)

      by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Thursday August 30, 2018 @09:35AM (#57224636)

      So if I get a ticket for Texting while Driving do I submit the ticket to my employer

      Generally your employer is not responsible for covering your ticket fine: even if you are driving a company vehicle.
      That is... if the ticket is a moving violation, and not expired inspection sticker or invalid tags, since those fines ultimately
      go against the property owner, not the driver. Parking violations you cause in a company are also your responsibility, even though if you fail to pay -- it's the vehicle's owner they will go after.

    • no, you bribe the police officer and then put the bribe in your tax statement as a deductible.

  • And in the EU just travel in some cases is work time all ready
    https://www.fastcompany.com/30... [fastcompany.com]

  • Is the company telling you to check/respond/craft work emails during the commute? You are choosing to perform these actions. Using this logic, I will check my work email hourly at home throughout the evening so I can stay on the clock 16 hours a day....
  • If I'm being paid (and billed) by the hour then you bet I'm counting that time as work. If I'm exempt (salaried) then I do what must be done. If there is some hard limit on the number of hours that can be worked then I'll take "comp-time" at my earliest convenience.

  • I've always counted it as work. I have one simple rule. Am I as productive during the commute as at the office.

    Sometimes the answer is yes and others it is no. If I feel I'm not overly productive I do not account for it.

    Where this really kicks in hard is business travel. If I'm flying intercity then I usually end up doing a ton of work at the airport, on the shuttle or train to and from and some times on the plane it self.

    This attitude instantly changed a few things.
    1. I travel to the office at differen

  • If youâ€(TM)re a consultant, you probably are overcharging for everything to begin with. Travel, food, etc... and the bitch of it is, you probably charge the customer for your time to gain the expertise they assumed you already had when you agreed to take the position.

    If youâ€(TM) are salary, you have a job to accomplish and the boss is paying you for that. If you do that in 10 hours a week... we might want to find more responsibilities for you as itâ&#8364
  • Those working moms want to count the time they spend emailing on the train to offset the number of hours less that they're in the office compared with their male colleagues, but the fact is those male colleagues are likely emailing on the train too, so it still won't help make up the difference. Only fix is to change the accepted fact that the mom is supposed to drop the kids off at school and start expecting half the dads to be doing it too. (More and more dads are doing it.)

  • ANY contact outside of work hours - email, text, calls, outside of your eight hours should be billable, at least as a quarter hour, if not half an hour per each.

    Or do you believe your upper management, that you exist solely for their use, and have no life (nor deserve one) of your own?

  • It also means the time spent on personal social media accounts and emails while at work should not be counted as part of the work day.

  • I wonder, nowadays, how many workers actually need to change locations to work. Why not put all that investment in bullet trains and the like into the Internet. Then only a small number of people will need to be physically elsewhere.

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